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I thought Amazon was one of the ones that always had remote engineers? I've gotten recruitment emails from them for remote jobs as recently as a few months ago and I don't think there are offices anywhere even remotely near me. I wonder if they'd be forcing me to move or grandfathering me in if I'd gone there. Edit: Or just firing me lol
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Feb 17, 2023 19:46
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I'm gonna guess that some upper management types have decided that since so many tech workers just got fired, management can afford to flex their power a bit and bring all the peons back to where their masters can keep a close eye on 'em. Mega Comrade posted:Lol didn't they only say a few months ago they wouldn't force people back? A corporation's word means nothing.
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Feb 17, 2023 19:49
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Can't imagine how Amazon, a company that sells all kinds of poo poo for people to put in places, benefits from people needing a home thing and a work one of the same thing
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Feb 17, 2023 19:57
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But I paid a lot of money for this office and when its empty its embarrassing!
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Feb 17, 2023 19:59
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Maximizing productivity by paying $38.24 a square foot for two pizzas and a whiteboard
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Feb 17, 2023 20:10
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wilderthanmild posted:I thought Amazon was one of the ones that always had remote engineers? Lol they had a senior VP of engineering who literally worked from a boat travelling the globe. Rules for thee, not for me.
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Feb 17, 2023 20:27
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm gonna guess that some upper management types have decided that since so many tech workers just got fired, management can afford to flex their power a bit and bring all the peons back to where their masters can keep a close eye on 'em.
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Feb 17, 2023 20:35
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Mega Comrade posted:Lol didn't they only say a few months ago they wouldn't force people back? Yep. Jassy announced in September that the decision of how often to come into the office (including not at all) would be up to each individual team as there’s “no one-size-fits-all solution.” That announcement post is just a bit down in the internal announcements portal if you scroll. Disgusting.
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Feb 17, 2023 20:48
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm gonna guess that some upper management types have decided that since so many tech workers just got fired, management can afford to flex their power a bit and bring all the peons back to where their masters can keep a close eye on 'em. In addition to announcing future layoff, my company has stated it's reevaluating remote work. I'm never going back into the office. I'll churn through every Java position in the world if I have to. And then I'll force myself to learn React and do it with that!
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Feb 17, 2023 22:58
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Mega Comrade posted:Lol didn't they only say a few months ago they wouldn't force people back? It's to reduce headcount.
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Feb 17, 2023 23:59
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Mega Comrade posted:Lol didn't they only say a few months ago they wouldn't force people back? yes but need office culture to make sure people are operating at maximum efficiency to hit quarterly profit goals after recent layoffs and "economic downturn."
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Feb 18, 2023 01:22
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Jokes on my employer - if I'm forced back I'm only working half as hard
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Feb 18, 2023 01:29
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happy that only one other person on my team lives in my city and that everyone else is distributed across different states with no on-site locations
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Feb 18, 2023 01:46
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I'm looking for jobs right now and I've been remote for 3.5 years and I really really hope the layoffs and crackdowns from the employing class don't force me back bc I can't go back to an open office
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Feb 18, 2023 04:14
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woke kaczynski posted:I'm looking for jobs right now and I've been remote for 3.5 years and I really really hope the layoffs and crackdowns from the employing class don't force me back bc I can't go back to an open office https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=necuqpDl-9E
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Feb 18, 2023 04:33
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 edit: got turned down on a job that was in-office 3 days a week. this is probably for the best
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Feb 18, 2023 06:20
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I can remember back in 2020 when we got everyone working from home and realized it was going to work. It was a little bumpy here and there but it was a pretty terrific feeling to realize we had pulled it off and production was still at 100%. Suddenly all the managers started getting on these kicks where they were requiring us to join calls and do all this training for random bullshit. Nobody had time for any of this and we couldn't understand what was going on. Finally one of the managers let the cat out of the bag and said they were just trying to make good use of all this "down time". We didn't have any downtime. We were still getting the work done. The bosses were the ones with downtime. They didn't have anything to do working from home so they made busy work and forced us to go along with it. Office jobs are bullshit.
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Feb 18, 2023 06:46
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McCracAttack posted:I can remember back in 2020 when we got everyone working from home and realized it was going to work. It was a little bumpy here and there but it was a pretty terrific feeling to realize we had pulled it off and production was still at 100%. This was everybody's experience, and we're still letting those fuckers shape our fate.
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Feb 18, 2023 14:34
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People with real estate investments are losing their shirts, so when your CEO goes golfing with one of these dipshits they get an ear full of "you need to get your workers back in the office because that extra $200M I made during the pandemic is almost wiped out by my real-estate holdings".
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Feb 18, 2023 15:33
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I think if the RTO push really continues in earnest we'll see some super efficient totally distributed small companies eat the lunch of bigger places. Maybe we'll see a world split between distributed only & onsite companies. I've met too many good devs who are committed to wfh only to believe they'd all pack it up and head back to an office (gently caress that). I'm kinda excited for whatever new operating & management styles come out of this.
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Feb 18, 2023 15:37
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Artemis J Brassnuts posted:Literally nobody has EVER used that test suite but it got called out on my review that year as a great initiative and made me look like someone who has opinions about how we should be doing things. This year my review was all about trying to find a lead position for me in the org (I did other similar things throughout the year as well, it’s not like you just do one thing and you’re set). I wonder if I’ll ever get to a point in my career where I stop thinking of this kind of thing as depressing and grim. This isn’t a dig at you, props for playing the game, but “The celebrated centerpiece of my promotion narrative was me doing something that had absolutely no material impact on anyone at my company” just reads so bleak.
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Feb 18, 2023 15:43
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I'd want +20% to even go to the office 2/3 days a week. I'm really not sure what sort of hike I'd need to go back in full time.
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Feb 18, 2023 16:14
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Sometimes the RTO conversation is the bad outcome of someone playing defense against an equal power in the company, where the other side dead-set on replacing everyone with offshore engineers if everyone is gonna be remote and working in different time zones anyway
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Feb 18, 2023 19:58
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Offshoring worked out so well the last time, after all.
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Feb 18, 2023 19:58
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ultrafilter posted:Offshoring worked out so well the last time, after all. But this time it will be different, for reasons! They’ll absolutely do it again, though.
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Feb 18, 2023 20:02
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I love that they think that “off shore” is an infinite pool of fungible resources, and that everyone there is just waiting to be picked to work for an American company (but not for American pay, of course). When I die, please scatter my ashes into the eyes of these idiots.
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Feb 18, 2023 20:18
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I don't know where they'd offshore *from* - Indian resources are getting tighter every year. They're still 1/3 the cost of a US dev at an average company, but the allure of untapped cheap labor has been gone for a while.
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Feb 18, 2023 20:18
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luchadornado posted:I don't know where they'd offshore *from* - Indian resources are getting tighter every year. They're still 1/3 the cost of a US dev at an average company, but the allure of untapped cheap labor has been gone for a while. Argentina and Colombia. Added bonus of being in a similar time zone to US.
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Feb 18, 2023 20:32
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Central and South America is the new darling of off-shoring because the time zone difference problem doesn’t really exist. Doesn’t fix all the other problems though.
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Feb 18, 2023 21:35
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IST is the perfect timezone for setting up a humane oncall rotation with the US
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Feb 18, 2023 21:37
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raminasi posted:I wonder if I’ll ever get to a point in my career where I stop thinking of this kind of thing as depressing and grim. This isn’t a dig at you, props for playing the game, but “The celebrated centerpiece of my promotion narrative was me doing something that had absolutely no material impact on anyone at my company” just reads so bleak. I learned a lot while doing it and the feature would have been useful if I’d thought to do it earlier in the project, both of which are good to know for future projects.Would it have been cooler if people used it? Of course, but life doesn’t always go the way you plan. My point was that even though it felt like a bit of a failure for the reasons you mention, a good company will notice and reward the effort w/r/t promotions.
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Feb 18, 2023 22:30
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luchadornado posted:I don't know where they'd offshore *from* - Indian resources are getting tighter every year. They're still 1/3 the cost of a US dev at an average company, but the allure of untapped cheap labor has been gone for a while.
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Feb 18, 2023 22:35
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Also, Eastern Europe has more and more access to the EU market, as EU expands and gobbles it up. EU jobs come with some socialist benefits too.
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Feb 19, 2023 01:37
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We worked with Bulgarian contractors (over 60 in total), my personal experience was that they're comfortable working with Java and other pre-2010 technology but were hesitant to fully embrace cloud solutions. Skype and Windows were popular development machine choices there despite production running on Linux More recently worked with Belarusian, Russian and Ukrainian contractors. Slightly behind the cloud curve from US employees but they are operating on a ~2016 level Hired contractors in Colombia (multiple cities) they had some minor experience with AWS but we were training them on the job Our Ukrainian contractor turned FTE held similar views that eastern European contractors were behind the curve on cloud tech in general Right now if your company is in limp home mode, hiring contractors to keep the lights on isn't a terrible business decision No idea what things will look like in 10 years, playing field will level out considerably I suspect
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Feb 19, 2023 16:46
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I feel like your perspective might be skewed a bit: Somebody with strong skills is not going to work for American peanuts. Why would they? On the other hand, I know plenty of strong engineers working for American salaries from Eastern Europe. Source: from there, living here now
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Feb 19, 2023 20:52
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If you're paying American salaries you can get a nearly inexhaustible supply of skilled labour pretty much anywhere in the world. (Except perhaps America). But the whole reason companies try to offshore things is to not be doing that.
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Feb 19, 2023 23:33
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bob dobbs golden rule of outsourcing: pay them some fuckin gold, get good results
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Feb 19, 2023 23:35
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you get amazing senior foreign peeps if you just fork over like 120k usd tc
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Feb 19, 2023 23:36
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For sure. That's my current TC (would be more if I was actually doing something useful for the company, but they don't know what to do with their contractors and dont have a sales department), and I am grossly overpaid for my skill level in the local economy.
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Feb 20, 2023 00:04
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I think if the next generation of pointy haired dilbert managers think they found the secret to lower costs with off-shoring, they're sadly mistaken and it'll play out a little bit differently. There's still such an unmet demand for software that the TCs will just rise globally. It's hard to imagine the goldrush of really cheap devs continuing to be a thing. I work with some devs from Poland and their TCs, while lower than Americans, aren't drastically lower, they're all maybe 30% lower than their US equivalents and the gap is closing with each year. YMMV, I'm not in FAANG or figgie prime land
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Feb 20, 2023 00:45
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