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  thanks carter PookBear fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 06:38
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 09:43 |
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Carter has been President Emeritus longer than I've been alive, and I already feel older than Bilbo Baggins.
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Feb 19, 2023 16:02
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SquirrelyPSU posted:Carter has been President Emeritus longer than I've been alive, and I already feel older than Bilbo Baggins. It's funny, if we'd been in the middle of ww1 now he would've been president during the civil war. ~ 
ThisIsJohnWayne fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 16:29
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PookBear posted:
Yeah that was brutal. I don’t think the Dems recovered from this until like ‘92.
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Feb 19, 2023 16:51
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:It's reductive, sure. But when it comes down it, he raised money for a charity to build houses after prioritizing tax cuts while he was president. He put his time into negotiating peace as a private citizen after sending weapons to right wing militias on multiple continents when he was in charge of US foreign policy. How is current Latin American instability directly his fault?
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Feb 19, 2023 16:55
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Grip it and rip it posted:How is current Latin American instability directly his fault? He authorized intervention that funded and armed rebel groups in Nicaragua because the US was not friendly with the government that took power there. He's not solely responsible by any means (Reagan was a lot more enthusiastic about US involvement, among others), but there's a direct line of causality between US Cold War shenanigans in Central America and the current political problems there today. 1979 Times article on the decision: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP99-00498R000100170025-9.pdf AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 17:14
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Putting the contras on Carter is a creative interpretation of that particular timeline. Large scale organized support of the Contras (and the unification of opposition groups to faciliate that) started in September of 1981.
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Feb 19, 2023 17:17
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And let's not pretend that the CIA wasn't going to do whatever the hell it wanted down there, authorization or no.
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Feb 19, 2023 17:21
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Lemniscate Blue posted:And let's not pretend that the CIA wasn't going to do whatever the hell it wanted down there, authorization or no. He still authorized it.
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Feb 19, 2023 17:24
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CainFortea posted:He still authorized it. Nah it was specifically Reagan who authorized the CIA effort to found and support the Contras. The above linked article is about the US changing its formal position wrt The Somoza Government and is very much not an authorization of a covert effort by the CIA to found, fund, train, and support covert action against a sandinista government that wasn't even in power yet.
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Feb 19, 2023 17:37
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Reagan was inaugurated in January 1981, note the dates in this document. The truckload of American weapons just materialized out of thin air?
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Feb 19, 2023 17:45
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Putting in a lot of effort to push a Carter Bad narrative
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Feb 19, 2023 17:47
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These events don’t seem too current and I’m having a hard time thinking of a president in living memory that was as overall a better person than Carter as low as a bar as that may be.
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Feb 19, 2023 17:50
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Reagan was inaugurated in January 1981, note the dates in this document. That doesn't seem inconsistent with a massive ramp up of support as soon as Reagan took office, which is consistent with the currently understood timeline of the conflict. It's certainly not the first or last time that plans have been ready to go pending a change in administration, eg Trump admin greenlighting the Raid on Yakla in Yemen as one of the very first things he did in office. If there's evidence that Carter was a big backer of CIA efforts in Nicaragua I am all ears if you have anything concrete, I just have not seen anything suggesting that previously.
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Feb 19, 2023 17:56
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lightpole posted:Putting in a lot of effort to push a Carter Bad narrative Lotta effort in the whole "Carter never did anything wrong" version of history.
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Feb 19, 2023 18:08
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CainFortea posted:Lotta effort in the whole "Carter never did anything wrong" version of history. "Carter Bad" and "Carter never did anything wrong" are two different things.
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Feb 19, 2023 18:13
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Carter was one of the better Presidents we've had. He seems like a good man who got put above his pay grade, and did the best he could with what he had. I'll admit I'm not terribly well read on him or his administration. I'll also admit that the soldier part of me has a bit of undying admiration from an interview he did. He was asked if he could change anything from his Presidency, what would have been. "I would have sent one more helicopter." In reference to Eagle Claw. I've never seen any writing to support it, but from what it looks like from my limited studies, the loss at Desert One and the Failure of Eagle Claw broke him as a man, understandably.
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Feb 19, 2023 18:13
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lightpole posted:"Carter Bad" and "Carter never did anything wrong" are two different things. Yes.
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Feb 19, 2023 18:15
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Thwomp posted:That’s like the lowest bar imaginable though.
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Feb 19, 2023 18:16
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CainFortea posted:Lotta effort in the whole "Carter never did anything wrong" version of history. thankfully zero people are arguing 'carter never did anything wrong'
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Feb 19, 2023 18:34
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bulletsponge13 posted:Carter was one of the better Presidents we've had. He seems like a good man who got put above his pay grade, and did the best he could with what he had. It absolutely cost him the presidency. There was a lot of "not another Vietnam" there and in Central America so his capacity for response was limited by that.
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Feb 19, 2023 19:53
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Carter made americans feel bad about being a bunch of whiney selfish shits so he only got one term. He was one of the only modern presidents to act based on his morals and convictions and demonstrates that you get the leaders you deserve. Nobody thinks he's perfect or a saint - hes just one of the best of a small set of people.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:09
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Reagan ripping the solar panels off the white house really was a portent of the future
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Feb 19, 2023 20:13
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Grip it and rip it posted:He was one of the only modern presidents to act based on his morals and convictions and demonstrates that you get the leaders you deserve. Plenty of modern presidents acted on their morals and convictions, like Nixon and Dubya and Reagan.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:19
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Plenty of modern presidents acted on their immoral convictions, like Nixon and Dubya and Reagan.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:21
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 Yeah that's more like it
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Feb 19, 2023 20:21
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Yes, that is the point I'm making. Personal morals and convictions can and often do result in people doing horrendously bad things.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:23
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gently caress, Richard Belzer died.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:28
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lightpole posted:It absolutely cost him the presidency. There was a lot of "not another Vietnam" there and in Central America so his capacity for response was limited by that. I honestly don't see how Eagle Claw ever would've worked. The books I've read about it, including the book about Task Force Orange / ISA The Killer Elite, make me feel like it would've been worse than Mogadishu and could've been a massacre. I just dont see how a bunch of Rangers and Delta guys could hold off hundreds of armed bad guys with zero air support overhead.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:36
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Bored As gently caress posted:I honestly don't see how Eagle Claw ever would've worked. I suspect it would've lead to outright war with Iran.
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Feb 19, 2023 20:52
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Grip it and rip it posted:Carter made americans feel bad about being a bunch of whiney selfish shits so he only got one term. He was one of the only modern presidents to act based on his morals and convictions and demonstrates that you get the leaders you deserve. The above is more or less what I've been taught / what I've gathered over the years. The Malaise Speech was perfectly rational, but exactly incorrect to an American audience. Throw in the Iranian Hostage Crisis (lol that hostages were released on Day One of Reagan) and early 80s Americans simply weren't going to vote for the weakling moralizer that made them feel feelings. Americans are bigly strongly positive people and go gently caress yourself if you think otherwise (history rhymes). rip munch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belzer_v._Bollea Edit: https://twitter.com/pblest/status/1627396499016413189 facialimpediment fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 20:59
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Bored As gently caress posted:I honestly don't see how Eagle Claw ever would've worked. My hot take is that even if Eagle Claw somehow worked out and Carter was able to get most if not all of the hostages out of Iran, he'd have still lost in 1980. Maybe not as much as he did in reality, but I think the economy is really what did him in. Iran and deteriorating relations with the Soviets/Olympics boycott was just the icing on the cake. facialimpediment posted:rip munch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belzer_v._Bollea Sucks but then found out this about him today, quote:Belzer has been a regular guest on the right-wing radio show of Alex Jones and appeared on the episode covering the Boston Marathon bombing, in which he referred to the bombing as a false flag event.[15] gently caress him for that.
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Feb 19, 2023 21:41
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Handsome Ralph posted:
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Feb 19, 2023 21:43
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Another case of don't meet your heroes. Although its ironic given his Law and Order character was also whacked out paranoid like that.
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Feb 19, 2023 21:44
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Plenty of modern presidents acted on their morals and convictions, like Nixon and Dubya and Reagan. No those three were absolutely cynics who simply used the language of morality to rationalize their harmful actions that were based on economic incentives. Well, maybe Dubya was doing what he thought was right, but he was surrounded by the most insanely cynical administration in modern history so it's difficult to say
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Feb 19, 2023 22:07
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George Miller, edit: NOT the writer and director of the Mad Max series but a different guy with the same name, died a few days ago. On the other end of the scale, Tom Sizemore is in the hospital with an aneurysm.
Midjack fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 22:21
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Midjack posted:George Miller, the writer and director of the Mad Max series, died a few days ago. On the other end of the scale, Tom Sizemore is in the hospital with an aneurysm. Wrong George Miller. You're thinking of the one who directed Neverending Story part II, George T. Miller. Unfortunately it seems wikipedia is a bit confused because there were two Australian movie directors named George Miller. https://movieweb.com/george-t-miller-dies/ quote:For all of you Mad Max fans out there, don't worry; it's not that George Miller. Sadly, George T. Miller, another Australian director, passed away at the age of 79. He had suffered a heart attack in Melbourne, Australia. orange juche fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 22:29
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orange juche posted:Wrong George Miller. You're thinking of the one who directed Neverending Story part II, George T. Miller. Thanks for the correction!
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Feb 19, 2023 22:36
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CommieGIR posted:Another case of don't meet your heroes. That Character started long before SVU. He appeared on Homicide as the same exact character, and on a bunch of other shows as the sane character but unnamed. I think he appeared on X Files as Munch, too. He also got a concussion and stitches from Hulk Hogan.
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Feb 19, 2023 22:37
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Midjack posted:Thanks for the correction! Lmao I can't imagine the amount of people who are confused just like that and thinking Dr. George Miller died (he is a doctor too lol)
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Feb 19, 2023 23:14
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