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I think a comparatively smaller elephant could probably gently caress me up pretty good
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Feb 10, 2023 04:21
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I'm hoping we're in the same world as the Tibet LP where the megatherium never went extinct and became the primary draft/mount animal of the Americas. I want my war elephant vs war sloth fights!
habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Feb 10, 2023 |
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Feb 10, 2023 05:04
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Go war sloths! You can take the elephants!
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Feb 10, 2023 06:31
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habeasdorkus posted:I'm hoping we're in the same world as the Tiber LP where the megatherium never went extinct and became the primary draft/mount animal of the Americas. I want my war elephant vs war sloth fights! Rubix Squid posted:Go war sloths! You can take the elephants! The fight consists of the war sloth slowly tilting over to the side before falling asleep while the elephant wanders away.
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Feb 10, 2023 09:34
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I count that as a victory for the war sloth.
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Feb 10, 2023 09:57
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Wikipedia has this thing, both METAL and insultingly stupid to say:quote:During the reign of Augustus, about 3,500 elephants were killed in Roman circus games, and this prolonged use as a beast in games of baiting along with hunting would drive the species to extinction at the IV century AD. And that's a good definition of the roman mindset which modern societies inherited IRL. This game though can end differently, start a massive breeding program and trample the world underfoot!
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Feb 10, 2023 16:18
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hashashash posted:the north African elephants used by the Carthaginians, and eventually driven to extinction, were apparently much smaller than Asian and Indian elephants of the time, as well as modern African elephants Everything you ever wanted to know about war elephants. https://acoup.blog/2019/07/26/collections-war-elephants-part-i-battle-pachyderms/ (3-part series) Two big takeaways: 1) Elephants could be countered - with some effort and training - by disciplined infantry. Something European medieval armies generally lacked so I don't think it's preposterous to see them in use in this alternate reality. 2) Because they were very, very expensive and could be countered at a fraction of the cost, generally speaking the only countries/societies who kept using them in the longer term were those were elephants were associated with/symbols of kingship and thus carried great prestige to make them worth the cost. Amhazair fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 10, 2023 |
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Feb 10, 2023 17:05
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One of the three surviving elephant species -- the African forest elephant -- is supposedly of a size with the extinct Carthaginian elephants, at about 2.5m average shoulder height. Indian elephants apparently have an average shoulder height of around 2.8m and African bush elephants around 3.2m, for comparison. 2.5m and 6 000 kg worth of elephant is still quite a lot of elephant.
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Feb 10, 2023 19:55
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By popular demand posted:Wikipedia has this thing, both METAL and insultingly stupid to say: Even better, turn the ruins of Rome into the elephant breeding grounds.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:21
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Ralepozozaxe posted:Even better, turn the ruins of Rome into the elephant breeding grounds. Carthage will invent concrete not because they want to build stuff, but because that stuff has to contain pachyderms.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:53
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Bring back straight tuskers Also we dont really know whats up with North African elephants because as far as I am aware we don't have any definite remains from them and as such cannot really do morphological or genetic comparasions. They could literally just be African Bush/forest elephants the Romans and related cultures had a training method we just have since lost. Realistically you'd want to do genetic stuff because as seen recently with Dire Wolves, morphological stuff can get stuff really wrong. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Feb 11, 2023 |
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Feb 11, 2023 01:00
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Ralepozozaxe posted:Even better, turn the ruins of Rome into the elephant breeding grounds. Realistically, presuming that Carthage as a broader entity doesn't entirely implode of course, the ruins of Rome would probably just get resettled since it's a good spot for a settlement. It's what happened with Carthage on our end, in fact. Roman Carthage was a major port.
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Feb 11, 2023 11:07
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If we’re talking elephants alt history Carthage could have access to, what about some miraculous late surviving island dwarf elephants? Palaeoloxodon falconeri was about the size of a large dog.
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Feb 13, 2023 19:01
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i demand tiny domesticated elephants
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Feb 13, 2023 19:20
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i want it to look like the flintstones all over europe. elephant lawnmowers, elephant cranes, elephant showers
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Feb 13, 2023 20:22
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getting into a fistfight with an elephant cuz they saw my wife naked
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Feb 13, 2023 20:25
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well apparently a few species only went extinct around 4000 BCE (and there are paintings of pharaohs being gifted them?), so I see no reason our Sophets can't be escorted by a guard of dwarf elephants
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Feb 13, 2023 21:36
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Isnt that like 3 milennia before the start of the game
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Feb 13, 2023 22:19
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Buschmaki posted:Isnt that like 3 milennia before the start of the game the point of divergence for this timeline is the survival of tiny lil elephants, who later give strategic and tactical guidance to the Sophets of Carthage.
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Feb 13, 2023 23:03
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punched my v-card at camp posted:the point of divergence for this timeline is the survival of tiny lil elephants, who later give strategic and tactical guidance to the Sophets of Carthage. so everyone in this thread is actually RPing a dwarf elephant? Luca_024 fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Feb 13, 2023 23:05
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Luca_024 posted:everyone in this thread is actually RPing a dwarf elephant but enough about their weight.
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Feb 13, 2023 23:25
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hashashash posted:well apparently a few species only went extinct around 4000 BCE (and there are paintings of pharaohs being gifted them?), so I see no reason our Sophets can't be escorted by a guard of dwarf elephants Wrangel island mammoths lasted until 1700 BC so Native American Mammoth calvary corp when?
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Feb 13, 2023 23:45
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Buschmaki posted:Isnt that like 3 milennia before the start of the game the next part of the LP is actually a flashback to the stone age, we're playing Dawn of Man and I totally didn't mistake 4000 bce as 400
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Feb 13, 2023 23:54
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okay, so the conversion is pretty much done. i'm gonna spend a couple days putting the finishing touches to it, looking for interesting mods to integrate, then I'll see about getting the CK3 prologue out
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Feb 17, 2023 19:03
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Feb 17, 2023 20:51
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Nice!
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Feb 17, 2023 21:45
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Carthaginian Kings 3
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Feb 17, 2023 22:11
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Buschmaki posted:Carthaginian Kings 3 Can't wait to see what kinds of crazy great holy wars will happen in this timeline!
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Feb 18, 2023 04:38
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Luca_024 posted:Can't wait to see what kinds of crazy great holy wars will happen in this timeline! clearly only good ones with a truly divine purpose
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Feb 18, 2023 17:00
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It's been so long since I've been on here but god I've missed a Paradox Mega-LP. I'm only sad that I got here after a big set of votes, but great work!
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Feb 20, 2023 15:46
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I'm hype for what you have planned for us, Hash. I, for one, am going to be a very big fan of the Normans.
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Feb 20, 2023 16:11
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I'm very excited to see what you've done. You really put in the work when it comes to these conversions.
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Feb 20, 2023 16:37
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Part 1 — PROLOGUE II The year is 30, for those who attest that there is only one God and Muhammad is his Prophet; and 650, according to them who hold to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ; and 1400, by the reckoning of the priests who count the years in Qart Hadasht. The ancient era is ended, antiquity is drawing to a close, and the medieval age is about to begin.  We begin with the crux of civilisation, the centre of the world, the axis of the universe — Canaan, a place that is now known as the Holy Land, for this is the country that birthed the three religions of Abraham: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.  Abrahamic state religions in the year 650 CE. The eldest of the three, Judaism, has suffered a long and miserable history at the hands of the Babylonians and Macedonians and Egyptians, but in the years that followed the sacking and destruction of the Second Temple, Judaism would be revived and reformed by one Simeon bar Kokhba, who was acclaimed as saviour, liberator, messiah by his own people and priests…   Under this messiah, Jewish forces not only liberated Judea, but they then seized Samaria and Galilee, and launched conquests into Egypt, Syria, Anatolia, and even dispatched expeditions to distant Greece and Magna Punica, forging a Jewish empire that had no equal in either histories or prophecies. And then Simeon died, and the faith fractured — the priests seized power in Samaria and Galilee, the sons of the messiah squabbled in Egypt and Anatolia, and a new power ascended in Judea…     None other than the second of the Abrahamic faiths — Christianity, who held a very different man to be their saviour and messiah. Though this faith initially appealed to the oppressed and the downtrodden, it was not very long until it began to attract Princes and Kings as well, spreading from Jerusalem into Syria with the conversion of the king of Aramaea… and then into Mesopotamia, where the basileus of the Seleukid Empire was won … and then to his subjects in Persia and enemies in Parthia… and even unto the Indus, where the Macedonians still maintained cultural ties with the Indo-Greeks.     That said, ‘Christendom’ as a concept was not united, with two major sects— Antiochene Christianity in the Seleukid Empire, and Pharaonic Christianity in the Ptolemaic Kingdom — dominating the religion amidst a smattering of smaller heresies.      And as for Jerusalem itself — while it would be swapped between these rivalled sects time and again for several centuries, with the dawn of the medieval era, that Holy City no longer belonged to Christendom at all…   …because it would capitulate to the youngest and boldest of the three Abrahamic faiths — Islam. Brought forth by the command of an Angel, preached by a prophet born into the Arab tribes, and spread by both the Word and the Sword, Islam has already brought the entirety of the Arabian peninsula to heel… and flooded into Canaan… and seized footholds in Egypt and Anatolia and Persia… and even dispatched invasions to far-flung Italia, Africa, India. But not all is well; though the religion of Muhammad is still in its infancy, the question of who should succeed the Prophet has already planted divisions and birthed sects in Islamdom…     Jerusalem. Canaan. The Holy Land. Judaism, Christianity, Islam. There is no knowing what cities they will conquer, what shores they will reach, what skies they will pray beneath. All that is certain, is that a long and bloody destiny awaits the sons of Abraham.    The centuries between the death of Christ and the birth of Muhammad would be dominated by another momentous event — the barbarian migrations. Driven by a range of crises that include overpopulation, climate change, and conflict with other peoples pouring forth from the Eurasian steppe, the Great Migrations would begin with none other than Attila…  Major movements throughout migration period, with their victories and defeats… …called the scourge of God by those Christians living in the Seleukid Empire, for having heard of the great riches along the rivers Tigris and Euphrates, of the glittering cities that lay upon the Indus, of the unfathomable wealth of the Ganges delta, that is where he set his sights. And so Attila led his Huns into the east, and they rampaged through Caucasia, Parthia, Bactria and India…  Though the Megas Basileus of the Seleukids managed to halt the Hunnic invasions in a great battle at Rhagae, he could not prevent them from overrunning Bactria and Syria — where, after several generations, the Hunnic conquerors would convert to heretical brands of Christianity and Judaism.   All of these lesser conquests were ruled from the Hunnic Realm, which Attila had situated between the vast country that lay between the rivers Vistula and Volga.  As for the people that already lived there — the Slavs fought and failed against the Huns, and were forced to flee in immense numbers into the west…    …where the Germanic peoples met them with steel in hand. The wars that followed were long, and bloody, and have yet to end. That said, though only a few tribes have managed to migrate past the Germanies and into Gaul and Britannia, the Germans failed to prevent the rise of the Sclaveni Kingdom in their very heartland —  And most pivotal to halting the westward expansion of these Slavs, was none other than…  Rome.  Or rather, the descendants of those who, so long ago, fled the sacking and salting of Roma, to found a new city on the banks of the Albe. Under the leadership of their kings — who styled themselves dominus et deus, lord and god — these Romans not only resisted the Punics, Germans, Slavs and others, but they waged wars on surrounding peoples and gradually melded their cultures and religion to produce something strange, something fearsome…    Driven forth by Slavic incursions and Roman revival, the Germanic tribes — ever a violent and frenzied people, even at peace — launched another succession of armed migrations when they flooded over the River Danube…  Inspired by the Romans that had planted themselves within Germania, these barbarians poured into Italia, Illyria, Thrace, Greece, and even far-off Anatolia and Africa, where they founded powerful realms of their own, and called themselves Kings. And unlike the Huns and Slavs, who largely ruled as elite classes over native populations, these Germans resettled their lands with their own tribes and kin, converting the cultures of their newfound realms.   For the centuries that comprised the ancient era, the blood-soaked country of Canaan was contested between the two great empires of the near east — the Ptolemaic Kingdom and the Seleukid Empire, heirs to Alexander the Great.  De jure empires of the Near East. With the advent of antiquity, however, the Ptolemaic Kingdom would plunge into a most terrible dark age — there was rebellion, religious revolution, widespread collapse of civic and social order, and the sacking of Alexandria… again, and again, and again, until nothing remaining but a small fishing village clinging to a deserted lighthouse.  By the year 650, the name of Ptolemy was extinct, and the lands of Aegyptos was broken into a babel of cultural mayhem and religious conflict.  Even the latter stretches of the Nile would suffer from this dark age, as the kingdom of Kush collapsed into power-hungry warlords and ambitious adventurers — but safeguarding against this chaos and bloodshed was the kingdom of Axum, which managed to maintain a stable presence to the south.  And whilst the ancient name of Ptolemy was slowly forgotten, their most hated enemies in the Seleukid Empire would experience a cultural revival, as their multicultural court at Seleucia-on-the-Tigris became a haven for Hellenistic art, Greek literature, Christian religion.  Of course, the various Seleukid kings sought to capitalise on the decline of their perennial enemies to the south, but every invasion into Egypt was met with defeat — to the last dregs of the Ptolemaic dynasty, then to the native Pharaohs sprouting along the banks of the Nile, then to the Muslim conquerors pouring into the West, and on and on.  To further confound them, the Seleukids were forced to contend with powerful neighbours on every side — Jewish Galatia, Zoroastrian Armenia, and Christian Parthia were resurgent throughout the same period, whilst the invading Huns posed a constant threat to the rule of the Seleukids in Syria, Mesopotamia and Persia.  Indeed, with the dawn of the medieval era, the Seleukids would stand alone as the last survivors of Alexander’s great empire — because to the east, under pressure from the Huns and eastern Indians, the Indo-Greek kingdom of India would stumble and then fracture.  The successors of the Maurya Empire, the Mahisamandala, would be instrumental to the defeat of the Indo-Greeks, as they rose to dominate the northern plains of that vast and rich continent of Bharatavarsha, blending strange intercurrents of Buddhism and Christianity as they did so.   Other Hellenic realms would have varying fortunes — Macedonia capitulated to the hordes descending from the north, whilst Cyrenaica became a battleground between Hellenistic natives, Germanic adventurers, and Muslim warriors seeking to expand the Caliphate.   That said, the Hellenes did survive intact within their homeland of Greece, though the Hellenic League — an alliance of city-states that evolved into a republic, and was forcibly converted to Judaism — was still struggling against Germans and Muslims on her very doorstep.  But finally, turning to the protagonist of the early chapters of this story, we come to Carthage. Despite her victories over Old Rome and succeeding dominance in the West, the waning years of the ancient era were not kind to the Ever-Shining City of Qart Hadasht — which would suffer plague epidemics, natural disasters, depopulation, political instability…  …but the Republic would weather through these crises, and emerge into a glorious golden age that would see Punic culture, trade, and religion flourish across the coasts of Africa and colonies of Europa.  And though the Republic did not wage any wars on the scale of the Roman-Punic conflict, there would be a smattering of skirmishes between the mercenary armies of Carthage and the Berber tribes of Numidia —  Of the former Punic empire, however, not all would experience this same prosperity… Some would thrive; the sophets of Tabarkon maintained Punic religion and identity as they expanded into the Frozen Sea and reformed into Eretz Sh’hor (Punic for black-country) —  Whilst Lilybaya gradually adopted Druidic traditions and rites, and eventually declared themselves the rightful inheritors of Eretz Badil (Punic for tin-land), a direct challenge to the scattered natives and Slavic invaders of Brythonia —   Other colonies, such as Kerkouane, Ubon, Masva, Gergis and Qart Hadasht would have their ambitions cut short by the instability of the period — kings toppling the old republics, aggressive tribes on their borders, monotheistic faiths trickling in from Canaan, and the hordes invading from the East…    As for the largest of the old dominions of Carthage — Italia would struggle against Germanic migrations for almost a century before finally collapsing to an alliance of Teutons, Jutes and Alamanns, reduced to a rump state around the city of Ostia.  Whilst the vast and wealthy realm of Spania would fracture into dozens of Barcid kinglets, all vying for the throne of their fathers and grandfathers whilst barbarians encroached from the north.  Despite these mixed successes and setbacks, Carthage’s dominance in the West would manifest in more ways than battles and wars — because Punic culture and religion continued to spread along the seacoasts and riverways of Europa, mingling with native cultures to create Siculo-Punics, Sardo-Punics, Graeco-Punics, Gallo-Punics, and half a dozen other hybrids.           Thus — the Republic remains triumphant and glorious, and the Ever-Shining City has never shone brighter… but no longer will Carthage be the centrepiece of this tale. The story now shifts to her successors in the wild continent of Europa, and in particular, to the kings of that small and declining country that goes by the name of Qart Hadasht…   ——— Political map:  Cultural map:  Religious map:  Struggle map: 
hashashash fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Nov 10, 2023 |
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Feb 22, 2023 21:08
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The full roll history is here, if you wanna have a look at it. You might notice a few rolls for things that might not make it into the update — like whether other migrations (Bulgars, Avars etc.) happened or not, or how minor countries fared in the interval — but they’ve all been implemented, one way or another. There’s also loads of details in the screenshots above that didn’t make it into the update, like smaller heresies and stuff. We’ll probably encounter some of them throughout the game, but if there’s any questions feel free to ask.
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Feb 22, 2023 21:11
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Feb 22, 2023 21:16
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Oh wow, I really did not expect Carthage and the Seleucids to survive, but I'm really happy to see it!
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Feb 22, 2023 21:22
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It's beautiful.
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Feb 22, 2023 21:22
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NewMars posted:Oh wow, I really did not expect Carthage and the Seleucids to survive, but I'm really happy to see it! The dice!
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Feb 22, 2023 21:27
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Praise Ba'al RNG!
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Feb 22, 2023 22:10
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| # ? May 25, 2024 15:41 |
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The Cultus-Deorum has a saga of Jupiter marrying Loki. It started as a trick, but the Aesir and Rumir are too committed to back out of it now.
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