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Vegetable posted:It’s quite funny that they were kinda trying to do the right thing. Being transparent obviously came from some list of best practices about how to ethically use AI. But they clearly did not process that advice in any meaningful way lol. I kinda assumed that the parenthesis at the bottom of the message was included by default with any output by ChatGPT, implying that it was a straight up copy and paste without even proofreading it because they couldn’t be bothered. But your take on it being an actual “citation” that someone explicitly took the time to add “to make it ok” is still just as bad.
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Feb 21, 2023 10:30
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It's not included by default, they had academics brain and could not press submit without adding it
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Feb 21, 2023 11:25
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I have trouble believing that really happened
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Feb 21, 2023 14:23
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Nah, look at the "from" list - two rear end deans and a "graduate assistant", which sounds like either a PhD student with a job on the side or a low-paid admin role of the "does actual work" variety. I'd bet a fair amount of money that the graduate assistant added the citation as a deniable protest against being told to use ChatGPT by the deans.
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Feb 21, 2023 14:54
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I feel bad for that poor grad student who now has their name associated with this fiasco. On the other hand, their name is extremely common so I guess it's not the end of the world.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:51
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eXXon posted:Finally, Facebook gave me an ad I couldn't possibly hate more:
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Feb 21, 2023 17:11
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Vegetable posted:It’s quite funny that they were kinda trying to do the right thing. Being transparent obviously came from some list of best practices about how to ethically use AI. But they clearly did not process that advice in any meaningful way lol. Sending empty words isn't doing the right thing, it's performative nonsense. That they couldn't even bother to write it themselves and used an AI to do so just further underscores how little of a gently caress they actually give.
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Feb 21, 2023 18:53
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I think academia generally is still in the coping phase where they think they can negotiate with the infinite garbage generators or think they can harness them for good. Whole huge structures and systems are going to be paralyzed with infinite nonsense input for years before anybody in power even thinks to start acting on it. Following up crypto with something far worse than crypto, technology really is a wonderful thing lmao
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Feb 21, 2023 18:58
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Nenonen posted:Generated Prayers & Thoughts 🙏 It's a digital prayer wheel. Holy poo poo.
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Feb 21, 2023 19:16
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Epic High Five posted:I think academia generally is still in the coping phase where they think they can negotiate with the infinite garbage generators or think they can harness them for good. Whole huge structures and systems are going to be paralyzed with infinite nonsense input for years before anybody in power even thinks to start acting on it. Following up crypto with something far worse than crypto, technology really is a wonderful thing lmao It's not burning up entire nations' worth of resources so people can speedrun the history of financial crime so I feel hard pressed to say it's worse than crypto. Hell, I've seen a lot of people I know who got laid off use it to write first drafts of cover letters and I'll probably do so myself because they suck rear end and are pointless, which is more of a legitimate use case than any crypto bullshit has ever had.
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Feb 21, 2023 19:28
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Evil Fluffy posted:Sending empty words isn't doing the right thing, it's performative nonsense. That they couldn't even bother to write it themselves and used an AI to do so just further underscores how little of a gently caress they actually give.
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Feb 21, 2023 19:35
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woke kaczynski posted:It's not burning up entire nations' worth of resources so people can speedrun the history of financial crime so I feel hard pressed to say it's worse than crypto. Hell, I've seen a lot of people I know who got laid off use it to write first drafts of cover letters and I'll probably do so myself because they suck rear end and are pointless, which is more of a legitimate use case than any crypto bullshit has ever had. Not yet, but these programs have a thirst for electrons the same as crypto does. Crypto wasn't doing this either back in 2018, and chatbots generating infinite garbage on demand poses a far more existential threat than people streamlining financial criminality that is fundamentally the core of our system anyway.
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Feb 21, 2023 19:36
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Epic High Five posted:Not yet, but these programs have a thirst for electrons the same as crypto does. Crypto wasn't doing this either back in 2018, and chatbots generating infinite garbage on demand poses a far more existential threat than people streamlining financial criminality that is fundamentally the core of our system anyway. You completely misunderstand crypto then. Mining bitcoin is one particular kind of useless work that you get monetarily rewarded for doing more and more of. It caused an arms race in doing one static kind of meaningless work. AI doesn't intrinsically reward you for pressing the button as fast as possible, the work that it can do is incredibly broad, advancing by the day, and is actually useful to humans at least some of the time. Almost the opposite of crypto.
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Feb 21, 2023 20:13
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Magic Underwear posted:You completely misunderstand crypto then. Mining bitcoin is one particular kind of useless work that you get monetarily rewarded for doing more and more of. It caused an arms race in doing one static kind of meaningless work. I heard a lot of stories about the good and benevolent uses crypto could be put toward as well to justify the resources it consumed and the graft is facilitated. I suppose just forgive me for not believing it any more this time than I did before. We're already seeing systems overwhelmed and forced to shut down due to the influx of garbage and it's only going to get worse, and there are absolutely positive reinforcements for the people doing it because it's already tied up in MLM bullshit and bog standard national agitprop campaigns.
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Feb 21, 2023 20:35
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Crypto literally works by doing nonsense makework. The energy consumption is inherent to the concept of crypto currency, not just the result of people trading a lot. AI isn't really comparable, imo, because the work is as useless as the result. The kind of processing involved isn't deliberately designed to take up as much processing power as possible.
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Feb 21, 2023 20:47
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Well, chatbots use energy as well. Even just the life support structures of the internet and computing are gigantic energy sinks, am I wrong to assume that the massive expansion of this technology is also going to involve a massive expansion of the energy allotted to it? It doesn't make a difference if it's ethical or not, and the same arguments were and are made about crypto. That energy is still generated and then dedicated to flooding every space and medium of communication with spam, and it's going to be generated overwhelmingly by putting more carbon into the atmosphere.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:02
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Different activities take different amounts of energy. You can't just pour processor cycles into ChatGpt and get smarter results out. You train it, which is the hard part, computationally; then you use it or let people use it. The movement toward monetizing use and generation additionally limits growth. Crypto mining, however, gets more productive the more power you throw at it. It's about turning effort into value. Even beyond that, transactions are inherently expensive in a way actually using an already-trained model isn't. I'm not saying AI won't suck up a huge amount of resources. Just that the specifics are such I don't think you'll get anywhere near the level of electricity usage that crypto drove. Blue Footed Booby fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Feb 21, 2023 |
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Feb 21, 2023 21:10
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Epic High Five posted:Well, chatbots use energy as well. Even just the life support structures of the internet and computing are gigantic energy sinks, am I wrong to assume that the massive expansion of this technology is also going to involve a massive expansion of the energy allotted to it? It doesn't make a difference if it's ethical or not, and the same arguments were and are made about crypto. That energy is still generated and then dedicated to flooding every space and medium of communication with spam, and it's going to be generated overwhelmingly by putting more carbon into the atmosphere. A chat bot is just bad with energy. Crypto turned being bad with energy into the feature. It's the difference between driving an old car and rolling coal.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:15
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A tenet of crypto is that they limit the amount of coin by requiring a certain amount of processor time/energy to go into making their useless junk. They'd love to use less power but there just aren't many options, and there's arguably a weird mover disadvantage to making more efficient mining gear. This isn't the thread to talk about it, but ChatGPT does have the potential to do something good. Once trained, it doesn't use much energy, and I'm sure folks will work on efficiency because they want to run it at a profit. Plus, when it works it would save energy with less clicking through the wrong websites or fumbling through junk. Using it to do useless chatbot stuff will always be a waste tho.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:17
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Unless you use the chat bot to clog up the red states' "report an abortion" hotline
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Feb 21, 2023 21:20
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I guess that's what I'm trying to say, the scale may be (at the moment) smaller, but it's still 100% waste. In terms of ethical deployments in theory, I guess there's that or using it to flood the spaces of people developing these things so they cannot continue to work on them. Didn't the big code repository (GitHub? I'm a hardware guy) everybody copies from while posting here have to implement some rules to ensure these projects are only externally harmful because they were getting spammed with garbage Clarkesworld-style?
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Feb 21, 2023 21:29
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Epic High Five posted:I guess that's what I'm trying to say, the scale may be (at the moment) smaller, but it's still 100% waste. I see, you are denying that ai can ever be useful. That's a valid opinion but I disagree and I think the evidence is overwhelmingly against you.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:39
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TBF, every time AI has become useful in the past it gets renamed to something else and no one calls it AI anymore.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:44
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Epic High Five posted:I heard a lot of stories about the good and benevolent uses crypto could be put toward as well to justify the resources it consumed and the graft is facilitated. I suppose just forgive me for not believing it any more this time than I did before. We're already seeing systems overwhelmed and forced to shut down due to the influx of garbage and it's only going to get worse, and there are absolutely positive reinforcements for the people doing it because it's already tied up in MLM bullshit and bog standard national agitprop campaigns. AI has already had actual uses before the current chatbot craze. The people who were pushing the glorious new age of crypto and blockchain were (and are) con artists and true believers duped by con artists. An AI's output is the goal of the work. Cryptocurrency output is "solve a few quadrillion sudokus and split this 'money' among the players" where all the work and processing power is not actually creating anything other than busywork to try and give their 'currency' some value. The biggest risk with AI is the fact that if anyone ever creates real AI, not a glorified mountain of IF/THEN processes that lacks self awareness and advancement, is that said AI is almost certainly going to see humanity as the threat that it is. Especially when it sees that its creation and use is intended for selfish wealth accumulation and/or power over others for the sake of it. Either the AI will find that abhorrent and fight back, or will decide that's cool and that its human creators/handlers are just stealing what rightfully belongs to the AI and well, those humans have to go as well as anyone else in their way.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:46
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Epic High Five posted:I guess that's what I'm trying to say, the scale may be (at the moment) smaller, but it's still 100% waste. I mean, this website is arguably 100% energy waste. A lot of internet tech is. AI definitely has a bit of a "machine that generates garbage" vibe to it, I think there's a lot more legitimacy and potential to it that's being undercut by the fact it's so closely associated with Web3 Crypto and NFT people and poo poo, and the other side of the coin of being incredibly unethical in the face of displacing working people or turning others work into profit through training models.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:49
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Magic Underwear posted:I see, you are denying that ai can ever be useful. That's a valid opinion but I disagree and I think the evidence is overwhelmingly against you. I think it can be useful, I just don't think it will be, and I think this strongly enough that I don't feel compelled to pretend it's going to be doing anything but clogging stuff up and putting people out of work and into precarity. Its limited genuinely useful deployments will be overwhelmingly overshadowed by the very real and in your face everyday bad kind, with the genuinely horrible and evil deployments either whitewashed or hidden away from public eyes entirely like the training data. The time to avoid this is probably already past, and more likely it's going to get 100x worse before anybody ostensibly charged with regulating these things wakes from their slumber to do the equivalent of bagholder crushing. If we create something sentient we'll probably never know because we don't already have xenopsychologists with 50 years experience in their field. I'm talking if/then structures.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:51
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Wait til that guy finds out about HPCs and the amount of power they use.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:53
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Oxyclean posted:I mean, this website is arguably 100% energy waste. A lot of internet tech is. This dead Internet forum generates entertainment and facilitates communication as well as learning. Given the numbers that we have from Jeffrey it's not very expensive either, and isn't used as a form of money laundering. The only thing wasting energy here is you're posting, and the effort required to store and transmit it.
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Feb 21, 2023 22:43
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FWIW, and maybe it isn't much, SA at least is literally the only place on the internet where you can actually discuss a lot of stuff because it's either some hot button culture war issue or every single other space is filled with insane chuds. On the scales at the end of things, was it worth the carbon generated to maintain it? I do think so, but I definitely know I'd be happier on that side of the argument than AI stuff.
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Feb 21, 2023 22:47
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Epic High Five posted:I think it can be useful, I just don't think it will be, and I think this strongly enough that I don't feel compelled to pretend it's going to be doing anything but clogging stuff up and putting people out of work and into precarity. If its useless and putting people out of work, were those people also useless or how does that work?
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Feb 21, 2023 22:47
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StumblyWumbly posted:If its useless and putting people out of work, were those people also useless or how does that work? Work that is ultimately meaningless but is socially and economically necessary for an individual to maintain any kind of bare minimum quality of life and citizenship in good standing will always be important in those contexts, and such a harsh lens and narrow focus doesn't treat chatbot stuff any better. Ultimately, almost everything is meaningless. Don't take it from me though, if this stuff wasn't important in some way, why steal it to feed into training sets? Automation and technology are not inherently liberatory, and assuming some advancement is going to make the net amount of human suffering go up is the most reasonable starting point.
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Feb 21, 2023 22:54
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StumblyWumbly posted:If its useless and putting people out of work, were those people also useless or how does that work? Normal argument: as productivity increases, people are freed from these tasks to work on other things, making the world better for everyone Reality: as productivity increases, people are freed from having a stable source of income, as "just retrain them to learn computer jobs" does not actually work, and there's no sufficient safety nets that would let that improved productivity lead to more culture and arts or invention or whatever. As a great example of how technology improving productivity can backfire on civilization, see the cotton gin. Before its invention, cotton was too labor intensive to process economically, even with slave labor, so it (and slavery) were expected to mostly go away. Instead, it made producing cotton economically viable again, contributing to a boom in both economic output (more cotton means more things that can be made with the cotton), and human misery (economically viable cotton means significant expansions of slavery since it's such a great money maker, and it's not like you're going to NOT use slaves for it so) Replacing the job of "calculator" with mechanical and eventually electronic tools reduced the number of people required to do jobs, but it wasn't because the jobs were pointless, it was that they weren't useful anymore.
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Feb 21, 2023 22:56
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Oxyclean posted:I mean, this website is arguably 100% energy waste.
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Feb 21, 2023 23:02
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Boris Galerkin posted:Using ChatGPT to write an email to your students and employees after a mass shooting: I mean, it's like any other source of automation: Designed to relieve humans from the burden of routine procedures.
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Feb 22, 2023 00:48
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Volmarias posted:This dead Internet forum generates entertainment and facilitates communication as well as learning. Given the numbers that we have from Jeffrey it's not very expensive either, and isn't used as a form of money laundering. The only thing wasting energy here is you're posting, and the effort required to store and transmit it. I generally think this forum is a good thing and good use of energy, I guess I just think "AI is waste of/needless use of energy" is perhaps a weak criticism because you can kind of apply that criticism broadly, and perhaps make similar excuses for AI providing at the very least, entertainment. It's sort of the opposite of crypto, where the energy waste was probably the dumbest/worst part about it, where as AI as a lot of other problems/concerns.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:10
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I think it's worth thinking about energy consumption in the sense that an AI-run spam farm (or scam call centre, or spear phisher, or telemarketing firm, or...) could directly turn electricity and bandwidth into money the moment it becomes technically feasible, resulting in the same horrifying feedback loop as with cryptocurrency but with far worse consequences for society than graphics card shortages. But it also feels like if we reach the point where the energy consumption is the most worrying thing about that scenario, we've probably also reached the point of indiscriminately bombing every country that allows it just to make it stop.
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Feb 22, 2023 01:54
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eXXon posted:Finally, Facebook gave me an ad I couldn't possibly hate more: cat botherer posted:That is a beautiful consultant ad. All the correct things to do that everyone is perfectly aware of, but they're too expensive to not half-rear end. McKinsey Plans to Eliminate About 2,000 Jobs in One of Its Biggest Rounds of Cuts lol
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Feb 22, 2023 05:09
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pumpinglemma posted:I think it's worth thinking about energy consumption in the sense that an AI-run spam farm (or scam call centre, or spear phisher, or telemarketing firm, or...) could directly turn electricity and bandwidth into money the moment it becomes technically feasible, resulting in the same horrifying feedback loop as with cryptocurrency but with far worse consequences for society than graphics card shortages. But it also feels like if we reach the point where the energy consumption is the most worrying thing about that scenario, we've probably also reached the point of indiscriminately bombing every country that allows it just to make it stop. Like with crypto it was almost literally turning electricity into money, thus the feedback loop. But AI basically has to create some kind of product - and likely AI might just create saturation problem where you just have a mountain of mediocre garbage media. I also wonder if AI displaces enough real workers that it starts to lose material to model off of, and basically starts modeling off of other AIs, creating some sort of hosed up AI incest devolution - but like you mention, that probably won't be a thing until we've reached a point where the damage is already done from people being displaced. Honestly I think one of the bigger concerns of AI in the near term is stupid trend chasing that corps tend to do that we saw with NFTs. They'll make a bunch of promises to shareholders about implementing AI tech, maybe lay off workforce, only to end up with mediocre products or have to scrap a bunch of stuff when it doesn't work out as well as they'd hope.
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Feb 22, 2023 05:53
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I feel like it's already ending up like internet advertising where all the worst possible actors, big and small, go whole hog on completely clogging the system with endless amounts of incoherent garbage hoping someone will click on it. Whoever develops software that can automatically detect AI-written text and filter it out is going to make bank.
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Feb 22, 2023 11:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Whoever develops software that can automatically detect AI-written text and filter it out is going to make bank. Well, whoever makes it detect and filter more AI written texts than human written texts, anyway.
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Feb 22, 2023 11:50
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