Strategy & Wargames - middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearn to pull levers

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Strategy & Wargames - middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearn to pull levers

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Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Nuremberg was a lengthy facade over the reality that might makes right.

The way people accepted it was that it killed some nazis, and killing nazis is always great so rejoicing all around. Except what it really did was let way more nazis get away with what they did plus neatly cover up that liberal states sure did a lot of things suspiciously similar to what the nazis did.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 14:40 on Feb 10, 2023

# ? Feb 10, 2023 14:38

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# ? May 28, 2024 08:52

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

y'all really need to read the myth of the eastern front

# ? Feb 10, 2023 14:44

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

I feel like the Clean Wehrmacht Myth took hold the most in countries like the US, maybe the UK, who didn't get occupied. It was slightly more difficult to sell the population of a country that experienced half a decade of occupation on that bullshit.

# ? Feb 10, 2023 14:47

oscarthewilde: May 16, 2012; I would often go there
To the tiny church there

Orange Devil posted:

Nuremberg was a lengthy facade over the reality that might makes right.

The way people accepted it was that it killed some nazis, and killing nazis is always great so rejoicing all around. Except what it really did was let way more nazis get away with what they did plus neatly cover up that liberal states sure did a lot of things suspiciously similar to what the nazis did.

I don't entirely agree that Nuremberg/PIL/the Rules-based International Order is just Thucydidean Realpolitik covered in a sheen of rationalism. Realpolitik surely explains a lot of the Western approach to international law and politics, but I've always believed those actions are fundamentally informed by material and ideological concerns, rather than simple power. That's why I prefer Mi�ville Mi�ville's Marxist approach over the broad realism of say, Kissinger

# ? Feb 10, 2023 15:37

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

The book on US submarine surface actions includes an entire chapter on why they had to let Donitz go, yeah. It ends by mentioning that while US veterans rarely if ever talked about the surface actions, and so the public was unaware, the military and civilian leadership were. Because Japan had made formal protests about some of these crimes, there was a risk that if they proceeded at Nuremberg against Donitz they would severely undermine the Tokyo and other trials. They thought about putting their own skippers on trial but some of them were famous submarine aces by then, and so they let Donitz off the hook to put the whole thing to bed.

�In 1944 the Japanese government lodged a formal protest against a submarine attack on the 130-ton Taiei Maru. The motor vessel carried a crew of six and seventy-seven civilian construction workers and their families on the morning of 3 July 1944, traveling between the islands of Palau and Yap. The Japanese claimed that After shelling set the ship on fire, a submarine circled the vicinity, firing machine guns at people in the water. Floating victims were allegedly probed with poles and if found to be still alive were shot with pistols. The accusations apparently emanated from the Taiei Maru�s master, who said he escaped by feigning death and that the only other survivors were two women and two of his crew�

�There is no doubt that the submarine referred to in the Japanese allegations was the USS Albacore, although its patrol report described the wooden interisland steamer as nearly 1,000 tons, and not surprisingly made no reference to shooting survivors. The Albacore�s commander, James W. Blanchard, gave a very different version of events when requested to respond to the accusations. According to Blanchard, the Albacore first fired at the vessel with its four-inch gun from some 6,300 yards away. The vessel took evasive action, and as the submarine gained ground it began firing with its two 20 mm guns and two .30-caliber machine guns. Blanchard insisted that guns were directed �at the target only� and that allegations of the crew firing at survivors in the water were �absolutely untrue.�

�Leaving aside whether survivors in the water were shot, the Albacore had indisputably turned its considerable firepower on an unarmed craft carrying civilians. As is the case with many other gun attacks, it is possible to interpret the assault on the Taiei Maru as motivated partly by frustration. Earlier in the patrol, during what later became known as the battle of the Philippine Sea, the Albacore found itself in the midst of a Japanese carrier group south of the Mariana Islands. Blanchard managed to fire off six torpedoes at the 31,000-ton carrier Taiho before being driven deep by enemy depth charges. Believing he had failed to sink the carrier, Blanchard brooded over missing such a rare opportunity. He was subsequently ordered to intercept traffic between Palau and Yap, and it may have been the prospect of a barren patrol that spurred the ferocious attack on the Taiei Maru. Ironically, months later Blanchard received confirmation that he had indeed sunk the Taiho and he was awarded a Navy Cross.�

�There were other instances when individual submariners shot at survivors on their own initiative. In a postwar interview William Hazzard, skipper of the USS Blenny, related an incident in which his executive officer began shooting at a man in the water. After the submarine sank a gunboat in the Java Sea, one of the survivors began shouting and brandishing a knife. The executive officer responded by firing a .45-caliber pistol at the man before Hazzard stopped him and told him they weren�t going to shoot anybody in the water.�

�The impulse to inflict pain and suffering on the enemy at times seemed overwhelming. On the USS Seahorse one of the crewmen, who had lost a brother with the battleship Arizona at Pearl Harbor, begged the skipper to let him turn a machine gun on some Japanese survivors encountered at sea. In this case the request was refused.Commanding the British submarine HMS Thule in the Malacca Straits, Alistair Mars professed, �At times I felt savage: I wanted to lay into some Japanese ship with the Thule�s gun, to smash her to pieces and massacre her men.�On at least one occasion Mars acted on these impulses; having driven a Japanese vessel onto some rocks, he ordered his gunners to shoot men as they abandoned ship.�

�In an ecology of violence that not only condoned killing but encouraged it, such incidents can hardly be surprising.40 American admiral Bull Halsey professed delight in the slaughter of Japanese troops, routinely ending messages with the admonition to �keep �em dying.�41 As will be documented later, numerous submarine actions might be described as �atrocities� or �war crimes.� Far less defensible than the killing of Japanese military personnel, these sometimes involved the death and maiming of civilians, whether Japanese fishermen or local seamen.�

# ? Feb 10, 2023 17:20

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

These opium wars be wild

Edit: Anyway, wars still suck a ton of rear end, they really didn't think it through how they work. Just completely unwieldy when it comes to GUI and giving you any sort of important information.

Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 18:19 on Feb 10, 2023

# ? Feb 10, 2023 17:42

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Frosted Flake posted:

The book on US submarine surface actions includes an entire chapter on why they had to let Donitz go, yeah. It ends by mentioning that while US veterans rarely if ever talked about the surface actions, and so the public was unaware, the military and civilian leadership were. Because Japan had made formal protests about some of these crimes, there was a risk that if they proceeded at Nuremberg against Donitz they would severely undermine the Tokyo and other trials. They thought about putting their own skippers on trial but some of them were famous submarine aces by then, and so they let Donitz off the hook to put the whole thing to bed.

�In 1944 the Japanese government lodged a formal protest against a submarine attack on the 130-ton Taiei Maru. The motor vessel carried a crew of six and seventy-seven civilian construction workers and their families on the morning of 3 July 1944, traveling between the islands of Palau and Yap. The Japanese claimed that After shelling set the ship on fire, a submarine circled the vicinity, firing machine guns at people in the water. Floating victims were allegedly probed with poles and if found to be still alive were shot with pistols. The accusations apparently emanated from the Taiei Maru�s master, who said he escaped by feigning death and that the only other survivors were two women and two of his crew�

�There is no doubt that the submarine referred to in the Japanese allegations was the USS Albacore, although its patrol report described the wooden interisland steamer as nearly 1,000 tons, and not surprisingly made no reference to shooting survivors. The Albacore�s commander, James W. Blanchard, gave a very different version of events when requested to respond to the accusations. According to Blanchard, the Albacore first fired at the vessel with its four-inch gun from some 6,300 yards away. The vessel took evasive action, and as the submarine gained ground it began firing with its two 20 mm guns and two .30-caliber machine guns. Blanchard insisted that guns were directed �at the target only� and that allegations of the crew firing at survivors in the water were �absolutely untrue.�

�Leaving aside whether survivors in the water were shot, the Albacore had indisputably turned its considerable firepower on an unarmed craft carrying civilians. As is the case with many other gun attacks, it is possible to interpret the assault on the Taiei Maru as motivated partly by frustration. Earlier in the patrol, during what later became known as the battle of the Philippine Sea, the Albacore found itself in the midst of a Japanese carrier group south of the Mariana Islands. Blanchard managed to fire off six torpedoes at the 31,000-ton carrier Taiho before being driven deep by enemy depth charges. Believing he had failed to sink the carrier, Blanchard brooded over missing such a rare opportunity. He was subsequently ordered to intercept traffic between Palau and Yap, and it may have been the prospect of a barren patrol that spurred the ferocious attack on the Taiei Maru. Ironically, months later Blanchard received confirmation that he had indeed sunk the Taiho and he was awarded a Navy Cross.�

�There were other instances when individual submariners shot at survivors on their own initiative. In a postwar interview William Hazzard, skipper of the USS Blenny, related an incident in which his executive officer began shooting at a man in the water. After the submarine sank a gunboat in the Java Sea, one of the survivors began shouting and brandishing a knife. The executive officer responded by firing a .45-caliber pistol at the man before Hazzard stopped him and told him they weren�t going to shoot anybody in the water.�

�The impulse to inflict pain and suffering on the enemy at times seemed overwhelming. On the USS Seahorse one of the crewmen, who had lost a brother with the battleship Arizona at Pearl Harbor, begged the skipper to let him turn a machine gun on some Japanese survivors encountered at sea. In this case the request was refused.Commanding the British submarine HMS Thule in the Malacca Straits, Alistair Mars professed, �At times I felt savage: I wanted to lay into some Japanese ship with the Thule�s gun, to smash her to pieces and massacre her men.�On at least one occasion Mars acted on these impulses; having driven a Japanese vessel onto some rocks, he ordered his gunners to shoot men as they abandoned ship.�

�In an ecology of violence that not only condoned killing but encouraged it, such incidents can hardly be surprising.40 American admiral Bull Halsey professed delight in the slaughter of Japanese troops, routinely ending messages with the admonition to �keep �em dying.�41 As will be documented later, numerous submarine actions might be described as �atrocities� or �war crimes.� Far less defensible than the killing of Japanese military personnel, these sometimes involved the death and maiming of civilians, whether Japanese fishermen or local seamen.�

Which book is this? I�m always looking for more to read on the Pacific Theatre of WW2

# ? Feb 10, 2023 20:39

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

"Atrocities" or "war crimes"

# ? Feb 10, 2023 22:17

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

got a pretty decent Alans game going in Attila Total War, the man himself was just born and I've got a decent settlement on the Iberian peninsula. Trying to decide if pushing into Carthage is a good idea or if it's too indefensible and I should just burn a few settlements and retreat back to Europe. It is super annoying that the Celtish factions all grabbed like one settlement and now refuse to make peace, plus I'm gonna have to backstab my Vandal and Frank allies to move into Gaul

# ? Feb 10, 2023 23:14

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Endman posted:

Which book is this? I�m always looking for more to read on the Pacific Theatre of WW2

Surface and Destroy

# ? Feb 11, 2023 00:10

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Frosted Flake posted:

The book on US submarine surface actions includes an entire chapter on why they had to let Donitz go, yeah. It ends by mentioning that while US veterans rarely if ever talked about the surface actions, and so the public was unaware, the military and civilian leadership were. Because Japan had made formal protests about some of these crimes, there was a risk that if they proceeded at Nuremberg against Donitz they would severely undermine the Tokyo and other trials. They thought about putting their own skippers on trial but some of them were famous submarine aces by then, and so they let Donitz off the hook to put the whole thing to bed.

“In 1944 the Japanese government lodged a formal protest against a submarine attack on the 130-ton Taiei Maru. The motor vessel carried a crew of six and seventy-seven civilian construction workers and their families on the morning of 3 July 1944, traveling between the islands of Palau and Yap. The Japanese claimed that After shelling set the ship on fire, a submarine circled the vicinity, firing machine guns at people in the water. Floating victims were allegedly probed with poles and if found to be still alive were shot with pistols. The accusations apparently emanated from the Taiei Maru’s master, who said he escaped by feigning death and that the only other survivors were two women and two of his crew”

“There is no doubt that the submarine referred to in the Japanese allegations was the USS Albacore, although its patrol report described the wooden interisland steamer as nearly 1,000 tons, and not surprisingly made no reference to shooting survivors. The Albacore’s commander, James W. Blanchard, gave a very different version of events when requested to respond to the accusations. According to Blanchard, the Albacore first fired at the vessel with its four-inch gun from some 6,300 yards away. The vessel took evasive action, and as the submarine gained ground it began firing with its two 20 mm guns and two .30-caliber machine guns. Blanchard insisted that guns were directed “at the target only” and that allegations of the crew firing at survivors in the water were “absolutely untrue.”

“Leaving aside whether survivors in the water were shot, the Albacore had indisputably turned its considerable firepower on an unarmed craft carrying civilians. As is the case with many other gun attacks, it is possible to interpret the assault on the Taiei Maru as motivated partly by frustration. Earlier in the patrol, during what later became known as the battle of the Philippine Sea, the Albacore found itself in the midst of a Japanese carrier group south of the Mariana Islands. Blanchard managed to fire off six torpedoes at the 31,000-ton carrier Taiho before being driven deep by enemy depth charges. Believing he had failed to sink the carrier, Blanchard brooded over missing such a rare opportunity. He was subsequently ordered to intercept traffic between Palau and Yap, and it may have been the prospect of a barren patrol that spurred the ferocious attack on the Taiei Maru. Ironically, months later Blanchard received confirmation that he had indeed sunk the Taiho and he was awarded a Navy Cross.”

“There were other instances when individual submariners shot at survivors on their own initiative. In a postwar interview William Hazzard, skipper of the USS Blenny, related an incident in which his executive officer began shooting at a man in the water. After the submarine sank a gunboat in the Java Sea, one of the survivors began shouting and brandishing a knife. The executive officer responded by firing a .45-caliber pistol at the man before Hazzard stopped him and told him they weren’t going to shoot anybody in the water.”

“The impulse to inflict pain and suffering on the enemy at times seemed overwhelming. On the USS Seahorse one of the crewmen, who had lost a brother with the battleship Arizona at Pearl Harbor, begged the skipper to let him turn a machine gun on some Japanese survivors encountered at sea. In this case the request was refused.Commanding the British submarine HMS Thule in the Malacca Straits, Alistair Mars professed, “At times I felt savage: I wanted to lay into some Japanese ship with the Thule’s gun, to smash her to pieces and massacre her men.”On at least one occasion Mars acted on these impulses; having driven a Japanese vessel onto some rocks, he ordered his gunners to shoot men as they abandoned ship.”

“In an ecology of violence that not only condoned killing but encouraged it, such incidents can hardly be surprising.40 American admiral Bull Halsey professed delight in the slaughter of Japanese troops, routinely ending messages with the admonition to “keep ’em dying.”41 As will be documented later, numerous submarine actions might be described as “atrocities” or “war crimes.” Far less defensible than the killing of Japanese military personnel, these sometimes involved the death and maiming of civilians, whether Japanese fishermen or local seamen.”

The US really did a number on downplaying just how much racism and complete dehumanization of the Japanese and just asians in general went into the Pacific war (and eventually Korea and Vietnam)

# ? Feb 11, 2023 04:23

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

I'm not convinced that war works in Victoria 3 at all.

There's some crazy poo poo going on there.

Like holding the line against a superior foe, numerically and technologically, for almost a year and winning.

The difference here is that I had field hospitals unlocked, while the french side was limited to first aid, maybe because of lack of opium or whatever. So wounded casualties would return to battle, but in the end still resulting in way more dead because of superior shrapnel artillery that the french had.

It's really not so much about "industrial" war as just stacking the modifiers as much as you can.

please ignore the problematic casualty numbers.

Also this is a beta branch, so it could just be bugged and broken. England spend 20 million on the war but only took 1 thousand casualties, accomplishing absolutely nothing other than bankrupting itself some more. They really need to fix that because it looks like England just sucks at fighting a war.

Edit: Oh yeah and you know there's something for people that feel really strongly about Tsushima or something.

Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 05:07 on Feb 11, 2023

# ? Feb 11, 2023 04:49

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

# ? Feb 12, 2023 06:37

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

So I might have accidentally destroyed the British Empire in 1894. I did not have nearly enough sulfur after I unlocked the new production method for chemical plants, and you know so I decided to take a bite out of the Qing empire and annex Xinjiang. It had sulfur, and they weren't using it at all, so why not.

Aaaaanyway, ol' queen Vicky decides to make things interesting. So I added the liberation of the british raj as one of the war goals, which might not have been fair to the AI. It probably doesn't realize how existential that is, and neither did I tbh.

So, now they're having a communist revolution.

Oh yeah and all the minor states in india are all cut off from the british market, so they'll probably just explode in their own little revolts too.

# ? Feb 14, 2023 03:31

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

it would be kinda fun to do a gimmick run where the goal is to make as many other countries as possible go communist

# ? Feb 14, 2023 03:36

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

US also kind of went communist but not really.

They had a labour uprising, but it's still a racist liberal republic. While the brits jumped straight to being soviets.

Edit: Welp, the british soviets got crushed, sad, but I couldn't intervene.

Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 03:47 on Feb 14, 2023

# ? Feb 14, 2023 03:40

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

Lostconfused posted:

I'm not convinced that war works in Victoria 3 at all.

There's some crazy poo poo going on there.

Like holding the line against a superior foe, numerically and technologically, for almost a year and winning.

The difference here is that I had field hospitals unlocked, while the french side was limited to first aid, maybe because of lack of opium or whatever. So wounded casualties would return to battle, but in the end still resulting in way more dead because of superior shrapnel artillery that the french had.

It's really not so much about "industrial" war as just stacking the modifiers as much as you can.

please ignore the problematic casualty numbers.

Also this is a beta branch, so it could just be bugged and broken. England spend 20 million on the war but only took 1 thousand casualties, accomplishing absolutely nothing other than bankrupting itself some more. They really need to fix that because it looks like England just sucks at fighting a war.

Edit: Oh yeah and you know there's something for people that feel really strongly about Tsushima or something.

Yeah recovery in battles is broken now, units in battle aren't meant to be reinforced but still are.
I couldn't see any official report about it but there are some comments about it being planned to be fixed in the next beta on the subreddit.

The beta has a lot of interesting and hopefully good changes but I will leave it alone until fighting battles sort of works again

# ? Feb 14, 2023 03:53

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

It�s genuinely too bad the game leaked because some of these philosophy/design/execution problems were identified but all discussion was out of bounds due to them being revealed by the leak, even if people had observed them in dev diaries or screenshots or whatever

# ? Feb 14, 2023 04:10

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

I played Twilight Struggle Red Sea last night and oh my god is that a quick knife fight of a hand. Ended with one Soviet victory and one US victory because I had let them control the strategic sea lanes

# ? Feb 14, 2023 04:19

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Is it good? I liked the original.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 14:38

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Yeah its still good, its Twilight Struggle just on a smaller scale, with Romania replacing the China card. The two rounds go very quickly

# ? Feb 15, 2023 14:42

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Pharaoh remake is out, get ready to build some mastabas.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 17:16

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

i still to this die have nightmares about Ceaser shouting "PLEBS ARE NEEDED" at me

# ? Feb 15, 2023 17:22

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

instantly bought Pharaoh A New Era, and played through Nubt

* they kept all the OG voiceovers, which is cool

* the new indicators for where the walkers will start and end is great for planning routes

* there is an option for Global Labor Pool - this instantly catapults the game into 10/10 status

about the only negative I've seen so far is that they didn't keep the list of authentic Egyptian names when you're picking out one for your new family

# ? Feb 15, 2023 17:42

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Tekopo posted:

i still to this die have nightmares about Ceaser shouting "PLEBS ARE NEEDED" at me

Those loving plebs still haunt me and this triggered me goddamn

# ? Feb 15, 2023 17:44

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

just finished the Perwadjyt level in Pharaoh. There's a quirk in this scenario's win conditions that isn't explained very well:

to win, the scenario wants you to have 10 Modest Homesteads.

if you play the scenario per the tutorial instructions you will, naturally, end up providing your homes with:

* water
* 1 type of food (figs)
* access to one God (Osiris)
* entertainment in the form a Juggler
* pottery

if, like me, you're following the tutorial, you might build one juggler stage and one juggling school... and then your houses will cap-out at an Ordinary Cottage, but not a Modest Homestead

when you click on the Ordinary Cottage, it'll say that the house cannot evolve further, because it wants more entertainment, but you only have one entertainment type. So what gives?

what's actually happening in the background is that the game tracks "Entertainment Points", both as a function of the types of entertainment, but also in the form of coverage for that entertainment:

quote:

�Perfect� coverage requires one juggler stage (in a booth, bandstand or pavilion) per 400 people, one music stage (in a bandstand or pavilion) per 700 people, one dance stage per 1200 people and one senet house per 5000 people.

and since the scenario also demands that you hit 600 population, a single juggler stage is no longer enough to provide perfect coverage.

the instant I built a second juggler stage, all the houses upgraded to a Modest Homestead, and I won the scenario, but there's no obvious clue that the houses want literally more jugglers, so I had to look it up.

References:
https://pharaoh.heavengames.com/strategy/housinglevels/
https://pharaoh.heavengames.com/strategy/nerowouldentertainment/

# ? Feb 16, 2023 16:25

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

The advisor for entertainment does literally tell you your entertainment coverage needs works and to build juggler stages.

# ? Feb 16, 2023 17:26

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Nekhen done. On to Men-Nefer!

I don't know if the game is easier or I got smarter over the last 24 years (oh god has it really been that long) but this is nice and easy.

Orange Devil posted:

The advisor for entertainment does literally tell you your entertainment coverage needs works and to build juggler stages.

oh huh. I stand corrected. I was only looking at the info screen from double-clicking the house to look for the next evolution step but that makes sense.

# ? Feb 17, 2023 13:13

John Charity Spring: Nov 4, 2009; SCREEEEE

gradenko_2000 posted:

Nekhen done. On to Men-Nefer!

I don't know if the game is easier or I got smarter over the last 24 years (oh god has it really been that long) but this is nice and easy.

Men-Nefer and Timna are the first ones that are somewhat challenging. It took me a while to remember to actually use exports to make money.

# ? Feb 17, 2023 13:21

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

I miss the minimap a lot to get an overview of the lay of the land at the start of the scenario

# ? Feb 18, 2023 11:50

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I played through a couple of levels of Nebuchadnezzar this afternoon. I picked up the game at release just because I wanted to support the developers for making a Pharaoh-like, but I didn't dig too deep into it.

It's got some interesting ideas:

- they don't use walkers, but instead you get to designate waypoints for your service providers to patrol

- more importantly, buildings have a set range for their "haulers" to deliver product; a clay pit needs to be so-close to either a warehouse or a potter to deliver its clay, and a market needs to be so-close to a warehouse to get ceramics for it (that its "walker" then delivers to houses, via a path that you define with waypoints)

- it quickly becomes very clear that you can't build everything within its natural range of each other, so a critical building is the Caravansary, which lets you move goods from one warehouse to another. So you can have a warehouse that accepts all the finished goods from an "industrial" sector, and then you have caravans move that across the map to a warehouse that's within range of a market, whose main purpose is to be the place where your market gets all its goods from

this, when combined with the relatively small maps, creates a dynamic where instead of the block design and walker path management being a big deal, the challenge in laying out the city is space management - you could "brute force" the design by having a lot of warehouses and markets to simplify moving the goods around, but it takes up a lot of the map.

# ? Feb 19, 2023 17:09

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Men-Nefer done

on to Timna!

# ? Feb 21, 2023 16:54

Minenfeld!: Aug 21, 2012

Is Pharoah remake actually any good? All I see are complaints. It's one of my favorite games and the very first demo I ever downloaded.

# ? Feb 22, 2023 16:49

KirbyKhan: Mar 20, 2009; Soiled Meat

I watched some of Gamerzhaks coverage of the game and it seems p legit. It is fundamentally still the same game, but the QOL added is very well considered and targeted to people into the impressions style game.

# ? Feb 22, 2023 16:53

John Charity Spring: Nov 4, 2009; SCREEEEE

I'm not comparing them directly because I haven't played the original since... probably 2002 or something. But the remake is really good overall, it's got some good UI decisions and others that are less successful and the changes to military are mixed at best but I'm having a blast with it. It's still the same game at base, with some better updates and some bits that were misguided and other bits that they should have changed and didn't. But on the whole? Still one of the best classic citybuilders.

# ? Feb 22, 2023 17:04

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Minenfeld! posted:

Is Pharoah remake actually any good? All I see are complaints. It's one of my favorite games and the very first demo I ever downloaded.

it's very good. it's straight-up Pharaoh but with modern resolutions and graphics, UI/UX improvements, and just two key optional rule changes: global labor pool and an age-based labor pool (versus the original where your laborers were always 40% of your total pop)

I haven't actually found anything objectionable yet since apparently the one complaint I did raise was my own self being too dumb to see the right screen for the info I was looking for

# ? Feb 22, 2023 17:14

Minenfeld!: Aug 21, 2012

Thanks all. I kinda thought gamers were just being whiny fucks but wasn't entirely sure.

Man I still remember building that loving mastaba over and over and over again in the demo.

# ? Feb 22, 2023 17:19

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

My only complaint is not having a minimap. Everything else is legit. If you liked original Pharaoh (and not some nostalgic idea of original Pharaoh you have sloshing around in your mind) then I can't imagine not liking this about equally.

I literally still have Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom installed on my PC and replayed Zeus about 5 years ago so I knew what I was realistically expecting going in and the remake has exceeded my expectations tbh.

# ? Feb 22, 2023 17:29

John Charity Spring: Nov 4, 2009; SCREEEEE

The military changes, to be clear, are that battles now resolve in a special screen using your trained troops/built ships against the invaders, rather than actually taking place on map. You can no longer order your military around on the map, which was always a pretty lovely part of the game so whatever, but this does mean you can't deal with predators with the military anymore - your best option is constables - and also it makes walls and towers pretty useless. You can still build them and they might affect troop strength in battles somehow but it's very unclear, and there's no point in walling your cities to defend buildings because enemy troops never enter the map, if you lose then stuff is wrecked at random. Actually maybe defensive structures are prioritised for being destroyed but that's just supposition.

Anyway it's not great but no-one played Pharaoh for the military stuff anyway so it is a minor complaint.

# ? Feb 22, 2023 22:08

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# ? May 28, 2024 08:52

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Anybody play COH3 yet?

# ? Feb 24, 2023 06:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > Strategy & Wargames - middlebrow autodidact "history buffs" who yearn to pull levers

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