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I didn't hate eternal but it seems like a colossal, enormous case of not Getting why 2016 owned, or more likely, lots of money that got involved after 2016 did better than expected. I'm genuinely excited for whatever id does next which feels weird
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Feb 22, 2023 16:30
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| # ? May 17, 2024 18:25 |
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Is time enough for Doom Eternal discussion? Ok! Doom Eternal presented innovate solutions to problems... that are only problems if you don't have good weapon balance and good level designers able to use hand crafted enemy encounters, layouts and well placed resources to establish the desired pace, variety and difficulty.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:46
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I've only finished Doom 2016 once because it becomes a bunch of samey arena fights after Kadingir and the combat in Doom 2016 isn't even particularly interesting. Glad they learned their lesson and made a better game for the sequel.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:56
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Doom Eternal had two grenade types and two buttons for grenades. To fire grenades you had to press the first button to toggle the types, and the second one to fire. why Nothing epitomizes the level of plate-spinning built into the game’s design as much as that, imo
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Feb 22, 2023 16:57
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Arivia posted:Doom Eternal had two grenade types and two buttons for grenades. To fire grenades you had to press the first button to toggle the types, and the second one to fire. why
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Feb 22, 2023 16:58
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I didn’t like Eternal as much as 2016. Too much story and “lore”, less is more! 2016 shot an arrow to my heart when doomguy was like “nope don’t care got killing to do”. It’s okay if you like the story bits, but I think doomguy belonging to an order of space knights is kinda dumb.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:59
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Power Walrus posted:2016 shot an arrow to my heart when doomguy was like “nope don’t care got killing to do”. (edit: "Doomguy 2016 hates the story and just wants to kill" is up there along side "They were dead the whole time in Lost" as the pet peeve I will never log off over)
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Feb 22, 2023 16:59
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Volte posted:I've only finished Doom 2016 once because it becomes a bunch of samey arena fights after Kadingir and the combat in Doom 2016 isn't even particularly interesting. Glad they learned their lesson and made a better game for the sequel. 
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Feb 22, 2023 17:01
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Arivia posted:Doom Eternal had two grenade types and two buttons for grenades. To fire grenades you had to press the first button to toggle the types, and the second one to fire. why Pretty simple explanation to me: they built the system before deciding how many grenade types there would be
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Feb 22, 2023 17:01
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Volte posted:This never happened and I will be yelling this from the rooftops until my dying day Okay I guess you could read him shoving the screen away during exposition as inchoate rage, but to ~meeeee~ it also read as “shut up, don’t care”.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:02
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Power Walrus posted:Okay I guess you could read him shoving the screen away during exposition as inchoate rage, but to ~meeeee~ it also read as “shut up, don’t care”.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:04
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guess it's up to the player's interpretation really
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Feb 22, 2023 17:05
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Yeah I think both can be true! That’s what’s great about sparse storytelling, less allows the player to fill in the gaps with their imagination. Its the parts of the monster that you don’t see that are the best/scariest.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:10
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Tbh, I was lukewarm on 2016 to begin with. Needed less modern game cruft and I say that as someone who usually loves modern game cruft way more than the average goon. I also don't recall ever really getting into the flow state they wanted you to in 2016, everything felt slow and clumsy. I haven't gotten to Eternal yet but I wonder how I'll take to it given that it sped up and amplified a lot of that stuff. The story stuff is dumb though. There's no getting around the fact that Doom simply does not need lore.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:17
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I like the story stuff in both new Dooms and how they tie them to the classic ones. I like how the games seem to imply that the Slayer was fighting for so long against the demons that even fan made Doom wads are canon. Eternal maybe went a bit overboard but I found it interesting still.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:23
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Eternal has a "skip cutscene" button. 
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Feb 22, 2023 17:27
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Power Walrus posted:I didn’t like Eternal as much as 2016. Too much story and “lore”, less is more! 2016 shot an arrow to my heart when doomguy was like “nope don’t care got killing to do”. I disliked their plate spinning as you say. Two grenades, the flame belch, the blood punch, all in timers, so the efficient way is to spam them as they cycle the cooldown. Add to that how I don't like the insta swap time (under an upgrade) between weapons, producing again an efficient way to play: fire and swap 3 big weapons as rapid as possible, to melt enemies before they can attack, and pass that for 'skill'. "Look how fast I can press a sequence of buttons" is a skill yeah, but not one I find particularly interesting.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:37
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I love how much faster Eternal felt, I love the enemy design, and I love the guns. It's just... the game was not fun to play for me, it was just non-stop anxiety of remembering to hit buttons mid-combat and chainsaw the right monsters and glory kill at the right time to get maximum ammo/armor/health output along with some truly garbage level design loaded with dumb gimmicks. And yeah, they took the lore way too seriously and ran away with it. 2016 at least let me feasibly SSG the entire game if I wanted to and had a fun tongue in cheek story and levels that felt like actual locations.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:40
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I've (re)played DOOM 2016, Eternal, and Doom 3 over the past few years and can confirm that Doom 3 is boring garbage--holy cow is it too easy and slow and there's absolutely no way somebody experienced 2016 and/or Eternal and looked back in retrospection and thought "...actually, Doom 3 isn't so bad after all." That's insane and I won't accept it.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:49
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Volte posted:That's the one thing that genuinely puzzled me, to the point where I don't think I used whatever the non-ice grenade is the entire time. Me neither. I also rarely switched weapon mods on the fly like they clearly wanted you to. Agreed about the anxiety of switching between so many things to optimize the combat. It’s a relief to go back to a game like Doom 2 where most of the weapons are good for most encounters, and you can optimize but it doesn’t feel so necessary.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:51
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Even in 2016 with its marginally slower pace I never understood that. It just feels utterly alien to swap modes (and it takes just short of forever to even do in 2016) rather than just pick one and run with it, maybe switching between them on a per-level basis or something at most.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:54
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Power Walrus posted:Yeah I think both can be true! I've said it somewhere before, but Doomguy doing a wink and nudge at the viewer to indicate how lovely he thinks the story is would be not fundamentally different than the ubiquitous trope of Marvel-tier characters quipping "so let me get this straight..." to acknowledge to the audience how ridiculous a situation seems. I would much rather experience a story presentation, even a corny one, that at least has enough confidence not to intentionally undermine itself, to not have the energy of a self-conscious stage performer who can't help laughing and mugging to avoid appearing sincere. That's not to say I think the story is great in either game, but the idea that Eternal somehow undermined 2016's wink-nudge disdain for the very concept of narrative is a disservice to both games. Eternal shifted all the (some might say overdone) Hell lore stuff into the foreground, mainly because that's where the game takes place, but it was there all along, and it was presented in earnest, which I can't help but respect on some level.
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Feb 22, 2023 17:58
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Gonna be honest, even on Nightmare I barely used the ice grenade and almost never used the regular grenade. I agree with the weirdness of having two grenades but only 1 "grenade launch" button and 1 "grenade swap" button; like another goon said, it's almost certainly a system that was designed prior to them settling on the final number of grenades, but it's still annoying
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Feb 22, 2023 17:59
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Anyone who thinks Doom 2016 downplayed its storytelling in some way apparently forgot about the sequence where you got locked in Hayden's office and have to listen to him prattle on for like five minutes straight.
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Feb 22, 2023 18:00
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Doom 1 & 2 are MD 20/20 Fortified Wine Doom 3 is Benadryl Doom 2016 is Cocaine Doom Eternal is Crank "Pick you're poison"
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Feb 22, 2023 18:05
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I didn't like eternal to begin with because of More ~ Lore ~ and Mash 5 Hotkeys A Second Because This Is Now An MMO, but Mick Gordons story about getting super hosed over by the game director while id was flailing (and failing at) trying to make the game itself really soured me on the whole thingJohn Murdoch posted:Anyone who thinks Doom 2016 downplayed its storytelling in some way apparently forgot about the sequence where you got locked in Hayden's office and have to listen to him prattle on for like five minutes straight. this one scene vs a bunch of cinematics where you watch doomguy become an arena gladiator and then super space knight whatever and the final boss is your former queen. Not entirely the same imo site fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Feb 22, 2023 |
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Feb 22, 2023 18:06
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I've (re)played DOOM 2016, Eternal, and Doom 3 over the past few years and can confirm that Doom 3 is boring garbage--holy cow is it too easy and slow and there's absolutely no way somebody experienced 2016 and/or Eternal and looked back in retrospection and thought "...actually, Doom 3 isn't so bad after all." That's insane and I won't accept it. Absolutely. I played every retail doom game (except the master levels I guess) in 2022 and doom 3 is like....barely above TNT
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Feb 22, 2023 18:08
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I don't think Doom 3 has been rehabilitated, but nu-Doom clearly owes a lot of its visual design elements to Doom 3, so at least it has been elevated from "black sheep" to "interactive concept art".
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Feb 22, 2023 18:10
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site posted:I didn't like eternal to begin with because of More ~ Lore ~ and Mash 5 Hotkeys A Second Because This Is Now An MMO, but Mick Gordons story about getting super hosed over by the game director while id was flailing (and failing at) trying to make the game itself really soured me on the whole thing I feel more or less the same. I liked Doom Eternal but for me it's a "one and done" and I doubt that I'll ever replay it because it's too much busy work, the Mick Gordon matter sucks a lot and I didn't like the lore.
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Feb 22, 2023 18:13
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Doom 1 & 2 are MD 20/20 Fortified Wine Doom eternal is that Chinese synthetic poo poo from the movie Crank because I kept getting tired, and had to amp myself up to keep playing it
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Feb 22, 2023 18:19
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Volte posted:I don't think Doom 3 has been rehabilitated, but nu-Doom clearly owes a lot of its visual design elements to Doom 3, so at least it has been elevated from "black sheep" to "interactive concept art". This is an interesting point and I agree. It's kind of like how the Star Wars prequels have had their ships and design language incorporated into games like Battlefront. Removed from the trash movies and placed in competent media, the aesthetics are compelling.
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Feb 22, 2023 18:46
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Love all the Doom games. 64 is my current fave.
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Feb 22, 2023 18:54
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I've (re)played DOOM 2016, Eternal, and Doom 3 over the past few years and can confirm that Doom 3 is boring garbage--holy cow is it too easy and slow and there's absolutely no way somebody experienced 2016 and/or Eternal and looked back in retrospection and thought "...actually, Doom 3 isn't so bad after all." That's insane and I won't accept it. I replayed Doom 3 on Switch in handheld mode, and it actually felt like it belonged there! The tight corridors and huge enemies mean that imprecise console aim isn't a hindrance, and in smaller bites the sameyness doesn't feel as dull. Jump scares are fun in your face, and it still does really slick things with the dynamic lighting. I realize what a weird anti-recommendation it is, but I actually don't even think I finished it on PC in 2004 because I had other better stuff to play like HL2 and Far Cry, and I legitimately enjoyed it on Nintendo Switch playing in bed recently. The twist that beating the Resurrection of Evil final boss with a cutscene triggered by something other than shooting it messed me up badly though, and I had to check a guide to finish RoE.
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Feb 22, 2023 19:27
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site posted:this one scene vs a bunch of cinematics where you watch doomguy become an arena gladiator and then super space knight whatever and the final boss is your former queen. Not entirely the same imo I meant it purely in the sense of what Volte was talking about, that if Doom 2016 was trying to take the piss out of its own plot, it wouldn't have an unskippable HL2 style cutscene in the middle of it. Surely Hayden would lock the door and then Doomguy would just jump through a window and keep on a-killin' without patiently listening to his bullshit.
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Feb 22, 2023 19:28
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Playing Doom Eternal is what I assume doing crystal meth feels like: absolutely fantastic with zero downsides. GOTY all years.
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Feb 22, 2023 19:30
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y'all have convinced me. Recalling 2016's plot beats, it's true that there are fewer and fewer dismissive actions by doomguy as the story goes on. I still choose to read the early interactions as 'gently caress you gently caress your exposition' because that's the fun I want to see. It tracks that the devs want you to at least sort of care about the plot, because Eternal is stuffed with it! fwiw, I really dislike the marvel/deadpool winking-at-the-camera stuff that you referenced. It was just refreshing to see doomguy react the way I felt: 'yeah yeah I know, demons, you idiots did it again let me start cleaning this mess up'. On the topic of old DOOM mods: does anyone remember an earlier version of Simpsons DOOM, where the animations were cruder, and all the voice samples were super long? Nothing quite like opening a door and hearing the alert bark of twelve Moes saying "I'm gonna shove a sausage down your throat and stick starving dogs up your butt!" I think Barney/Pinkie would also say "it fell in the toilet" every time he died. I have not been able to find it, and the lovely animations and rough sounds make the whole experience more surreal and funny than the slightly more polished mod.
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Feb 22, 2023 21:10
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I never understood the Doom 2016 trashing it's own plot idea. Like, that never happened in that game that I recall. There's like, 2 places specifically where Doomguy cuts someone off or destroys something ignoring someone, and both times it's with Samuel Hayden, and it's when he's trying to justify the current situation and trying to preserve the status quo with the argent doohickey that he breaks. Those don't read as "shut up I wanna go kill more demons" they read as "gently caress you this is your fault." Every interaction between them shows he HATES Hayden. He pushed the screen away because he didn't want to hear his excuses, and he breaks the thing because Hayden says "be careful with the thing it's used to harvest argent energy it's irreplaceable" "oh if this broke you wouldn't be able to summon demons anymore whoops my boot fell on it repeatedly". Hell, in the opening Hayden is like "this was for the betterment of mankind" and the camera looks very pointedly at a corpse on cue, Doomguy clenches his fist and punches the controls. It's all extremely obvious "Doomguy mad about demons and won't compromise on destroying them" not "lol lmao gently caress plot shoot man's" Edit: tldr Doom 2016 absolutely cares about it's own plot for better or worse. (I like the plot but I do wish the cutscenes were skippable)
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Feb 22, 2023 21:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQCZTxzW6A0
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Feb 22, 2023 21:30
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Hot take but I don't think it looks good at all when you add raytracing to these old FPS games
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Feb 22, 2023 21:31
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| # ? May 17, 2024 18:25 |
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Twerk from Home posted:I replayed Doom 3 on Switch in handheld mode, and it actually felt like it belonged there! I got myself a PSVR specifically for Doom 3 (well and Doom VFR), and since finding an Aim controller I've been slowly crawling through it. It's definitely a completely different experience than it was on PC (way more run&gun), but it's great. Except when I mess up the controls and grenade a loving spider that has just jumped in my face.
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Feb 22, 2023 21:33
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