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Zulily Zoetrope posted:You say that, but if you are a royal knight you will also have all the proficiencies needed for the superior griffin knight. lol that’s just cruel
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Feb 23, 2023 16:30
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Do you think fliers' bow weakness would be a bigger deal if bows could naturally counter at 1 range if the attacker is a flier (and only then)? Like if you can't just have a Wyvern or Griffin rush down an archer and kill them in melee without taking a bow counter it might matter a bit more.
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Feb 23, 2023 16:31
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inthesto posted:I am trying to buff the most important aspect of the game: Etie's abs well Warrior shows em off while Sniper covers em up, so the choice is clear
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Feb 23, 2023 16:39
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Royal Knights have (very modestly) better growths than griffins, but for some reason a noticeably worse overall class bonus, and also their bonus is less lopsided. It is not balanced, and the griffin knight is better on average. They should have picked one of speed or resist and gave the other to the Royal Knight. It's a shame, because I really dig the Royal Knight conceptually. And the answer to why they're worse than griffin knights, of course is The default one is a boss turned party member with great stats. And Engage seems to balance classes around which characters default to them That said, they have a really good array of stat growths and a better than average bonus. So it is under no circumstances a bad class. It's just a class with a better option. Big difference.
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Feb 23, 2023 16:43
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It seems weird that the post-game lets you play infinite skirmishes but doesn't allow you to buy infinite staves.
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Feb 23, 2023 16:51
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Veryslightlymad posted:Royal Knights have (very modestly) better growths than griffins, but for some reason a noticeably worse overall class bonus, and also their bonus is less lopsided. This is the main thing. If you use the class it’s because you like the idea, you like the vibes. Kind of like how Holy Knight in 3H is really only a class you use if you like the concept. There’s plenty of enemy squads of Bow Knights and Warriors that Griffin’s Bow weakness is legitimate, but it was definitely way overtuned. And I find the concept way less cool than Royal Knight.
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Feb 23, 2023 16:54
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I have a few of the starting classes reach level ten, should I leave them in their class, or use this master token to evolve them into something else? I just got alcryst.
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Feb 23, 2023 16:59
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Royal Knight would be instantly better if you swapped its lances for swords because Levin Swords are so much better than Flame LancesGreenBuckanneer posted:I have a few of the starting classes reach level ten, should I leave them in their class, or use this master token to evolve them into something else? I just got alcryst. Master Seal ASAP. There's no reason to delay in this one.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:01
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Use it on your favourite.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:01
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GreenBuckanneer posted:I have a few of the starting classes reach level ten, should I leave them in their class, or use this master token to evolve them into something else? I just got alcryst. There’s literally no downside to promoting ASAP aside from not knowing the character’s “total” level.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:01
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ROFL Octopus posted:This is the main thing. If you use the class it’s because you like the idea, you like the vibes. Kind of like how Holy Knight in 3H is really only a class you use if you like the concept. Holy knight had the edge case for me where it was much easier to move Marianne into, and I couldn't be arsed to change her to a dark knight once she got her skill up, because I wasn't using her magic score on anything so plebian as spells.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:07
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Last Celebration posted:There’s literally no downside to promoting ASAP aside from not knowing the character’s “total” level. This annoyed me to all get out in awakening and it continues to annoy me in engage. Hell, the whole series really, but those are the worst offenders. How can I keep my dudes at relative level parity if I don't know what level everyone is?
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Feb 23, 2023 17:14
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I held off on almost everyone until I could promote the whole squad, which, having a squad of "all of the characters" made this take a long rear end time. Nearly all my units promoted at 18. And then thieves and dancers "special" classes with different level caps. So now I have to remember to subtract 18 from them to figure out their turn in the rotation.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:21
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It's very funny to me that flying is perceived as a weakness to be compensated for when most of the time I'll trade anything for more fliers.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:21
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Back when I had only played the gameboy games and Radiance, I used to refer to them all as "Flying liabilities". They're much less assy nowadays. Time was, I would trade anything for another Cavalier. They're much more assy nowadays.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:23
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Hey, given the survival rates of my PoR fliers I don't blame you.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:24
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Flyers were always good
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Feb 23, 2023 17:25
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cheetah7071 posted:Flyers were always good True. The only game in which I’d say they’re definitely worse than cavs is Genealogy, since they can’t use roads. They still have fantastic stats and the best weapon ranks in the game bar like Master Knight so I’m not crying too hard over it.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:29
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florina does need to be babied a bit at the start of fe7 if you dont do lyn mode but fiora has a pretty normal amount of survivability and heath is heath i wonder if florina's fragility and the overload of axe users in early game fe7 is another thing that made people perceive fliers as insanely frail, because i feel like a lot of western fe fanbase perception of certain things really boils down to 'things that were true of fe7.' like even in fe8 vanessa is only very slightly frailer than franz.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:29
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I think the big change is the indicator lines. Ain't no one got time to meticulously check the range of every individual enemy unit to see if somehow an archer can squeeze by. Now I can just glance at the map and see which of my units is definitely safe, and while the QoL is much higher, it does make the games a lot easier. Still not gonna use one on a Fog of War map if I can help it.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:29
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florina actually has a slightly rough start in fe7 (without lyn mode) because her joining map has a bunch of ballista and archers, then there's an indoor map, and then there's the pirate clusterfuck with very strong enemies. it's only really the boat defense map where there's enemy mages for her to get kills on and she can actually spread her wings a bit.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:30
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Even Tana, who was fantastic, felt like a liability. That arrow weakness is oppressive. I've used all the fliers in both GBA games, and also lots of other people as fliers thanks to randomizers. But that feeling of "Great. Did I not notice someone has a secondary longbow?" Just never goes away. Most units you have to fail twice or get a bad crit to make die. Fliers you have to fail once.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:37
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If snipers had automatic longbow range they would make life more interesting.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:41
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Also wrt the GBA newcomer gameplay perception, it feels bad to lose a ton of AS to build, like yeah as an almost competent player now I know it doesn’t really matter because Shanna/Florian/Vanessa are still gonna be about as fast as [insert male spear wielder here] in practice with added flyer utility that makes investing stat boosters worthwhile but it’s the same idea as Oifey being a “good” Jagen and FE6 Marcus being a bad one despite the latter putting in far more work.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:44
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The worst advanced class is probably Sniper. There are other classes that are also largely outclassed (Royal Knight, Berserker, High Priest) but they all at least offer something if taken in a vacuum (staves or backup) and all have strong units that start in them. Sniper just doesn't offer anything except access to the S rank bow (for the 2-3 maps that that exists.) Covert isn't very useful on a class that can't effectively counterattack, it has a basically useless class skill and it doesn't even have better bases than Bow Knight.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:45
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I can see a reason for Covert type on Archers/Snipers, though I guess I don't know how practical it really is. It's not going to make them great in enemy phase like Thieves are, but it can keep them safer and give you a bit more license to push them deeper behind enemy lines to take out priority targets as long as there's avoid terrain.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:50
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its mostly so they get extra lyn range
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Feb 23, 2023 17:51
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goatface posted:If snipers had automatic longbow range they would make life more interesting. Longbow was restricted to Archers/Snipers for a while and tbh I think that’s a pretty good idea
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Feb 23, 2023 17:52
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Veryslightlymad posted:I held off on almost everyone until I could promote the whole squad, which, having a squad of "all of the characters" made this take a long rear end time. Nearly all my units promoted at 18. This sounds very frustrating, I don't think I'd go through the effort to keep track
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Feb 23, 2023 17:54
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Edit^^^ Luckily there are only 3 of those in the cast. So it's not really a big deal. And I am just treating everyone as promoted at 18 even though some were as low as 16 and Clanne made it to 20. Covert is great. You can play less methodical with your most fragile toys. And calling the Sniper skill "useless" strikes me as actually insane. Are you playing exclusively on the enemy turn?
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Feb 23, 2023 17:54
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I finally beat this game last night, hard difficulty. It was challenging without being unfair, after a while at least. The early game was pretty unrelenting, but I guess that’s par for the course with FE games. They sure loved giving characters extremely long a drawn-out death scenes in the last few chapters, huh? I enjoyed playing it but I probably won’t play on Maddening because that doesn’t sound fun at all. I will do the Fell Xenologue when that launches, I guess, but other than that I’m happy to be done with the game. Not that it wasn’t good, I just had my fill I guess.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:02
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I had more fun on hard in this game that the entirety of 3 houses and maddening was even more fun. I never felt it being completely bullshit unfair compared to previous attempts in older FE games to play those maniac modes, especially fates.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:06
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I beat awakening on hard back in the day, and stepped my toe into maddening or whatever it was called, but if a game is that hard, where you savescum your way to victory, it's just honestly a waste of time to play that way. May as well drop it down and you'll save yourself some time
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Feb 23, 2023 18:09
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Veryslightlymad posted:Edit^^^ Needing to not move is a very significant downside. The times where all of a)a useful target is in range of the sniper, b)the +hit is significant and c)it wouldn't be more useful to move farther ahead, are a pretty rare occurrence. Especially since taking advantage of the skill means the sniper will fall behind the group and have fewer opportunities to use the skill again on future turns.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:11
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WrightOfWay posted:Needing to not move is a very significant downside. The times where all of a)a useful target is in range of the sniper, b)the +hit is significant and c)it wouldn't be more useful to move farther ahead, are a pretty rare occurrence. Especially since taking advantage of the skill means the sniper will fall behind the group and have fewer opportunities to use the skill again on future turns. That's the bow knight skill. Edit And I agree, it kinda sucks!
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Feb 23, 2023 18:13
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The Sniper passive is basically Panette's personal on a lot of enemies, the only ones that don't get hit are Wolf Knights (which are the most terrifying enemies in maddening) and like mages, but mages die to bows anyway.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:17
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Veryslightlymad posted:That's the bow knight skill. Oh right, I got those backwards. Yeah the Sniper skill is pretty good, in the upper half of class skills, so I guess it does have that going for it.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:30
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I don't have that much experience with GBA games or anything before that, but when I think fragile fliers I think it's generally pegasus knights. And then then I've only had a bad Sumia and Subaki. Cynthia, Hinoka, Est, Caeda, Palla, and Clair all ended up fine. I don't think I used Cordelia that much when Cherche showed up.
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Feb 23, 2023 19:29
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I’m playing POR for the first time and the fliers in that game are very funny because you can skip the part where you have to do any kind of babying with a little bit of bexp (a few levels makes a huge difference alone) and also they thought our American brains were too small so they reduced the mt effective multiplier to 2x for us. I left Jill in range of an archer on a fog map and they did a terrifying FOUR damage to her wow and she’s like -3 on def lol
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Feb 23, 2023 19:35
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weapon effectiveness was x2 in both the jp and eng versions of fe9 fe7 was the one where it got reduced to 2x in localization
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Feb 23, 2023 19:41
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