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Serephina posted:Question on elections: I have a grandson I'd like to have inherit me. He is a valid candidate for the Kingdom of France, but not for my Duchy of Valois. Both have Feudal elective, but France also has 'male-only', which I supposed was disqualifying his still-living mother. So I set Realm succession to be male-only (since players can't put male-only laws on a title, Kingdom of France comes with that special-cased), but he's still not a valid candidate. But nor is his mother! (Nor any other woman) Grandchildren aren't allowed to be electoral candidates while their parent still lives and is eligible. Why? ask PDX If you really want to elect them, land them (assuming vassals are allowed) or kill their parents
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Feb 23, 2023 15:41
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Here's the thing: his mum was still alive, but he *was* a valid candidate for the title of France, which is unusual. The only thing special about France was the pre-existing "male only" law; which you would think would disqualify the mom (and hence him too), or alternatively, given that my realm was changed to male-only also, would still disqualify him since he came via a female lineage. Also, (I wish I had taken a screenshot of this) when looking at both titles, they both had the exact same wording with the same underlining on the rules; "something something male-only feudal elective". The wording was identical on both, so it's an undocumented feature in there somewhere. Unfortunately the mum (my daughter) died shortly afterwards (I swear I actually had nothing to do with it! It was gout!) so I couldn't fiddle with it to figure it out. Shame. Kind of a moot point anyways, as about 30 years later after a bunch more natural deaths I realized he could get everything legitimately just by getting rid of all the male-only elective crap and with equal partition he suddenly skyrockets to the top of the food chain. Oh, the irony. (His mum was the oldest kid who had her own kids) edit: almost forgot, Karling genocide complete: 
Serephina fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Feb 23, 2023 |
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Feb 23, 2023 16:05
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Hellioning posted:I understand the appeal of these sorts of dev diaries but now really isn't the time for them; I very much agree with the speculation that the people writing dev diaries were expecting the expac to be announced by now. You know I said to myself, maybe it's the company, maybe that's just how they do things? Then I read over what's been announced for Stellaris, EU4, and Vicky 3 over the past few months and now I'm even sadder. 
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Feb 23, 2023 18:29
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SlothBear posted:You know I said to myself, maybe it's the company, maybe that's just how they do things? Then I read over what's been announced for Stellaris, EU4, and Vicky 3 over the past few months and now I'm even sadder. Same. The silence is pretty demoralizing. I'm a pretty diehard CK3 fan and I haven't liked the game in months. My favorite mechanic got nerfed, bugs introduced in the dlcs still haven't been fixed, and many of the people I know stopped caring. It sucks
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Feb 23, 2023 18:53
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CK3 just weirdly dying on the vine despite it being one of the most popular IP's and smoothest launches is one of the greater Paradoxes.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:58
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Has there actually been a problem with the number of releases outside of Royal Court taking awhile? Last year they released basically the same thing as Stellaris (one big expansion, one smaller one) with the event pack on top of that. EU4 and HOI4 only had one expansion release. I think the problem is more that the releases are what some people want and they’re pretty bad at filling time between them.
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Feb 23, 2023 19:51
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Omnicarus posted:CK3 just weirdly dying on the vine despite it being one of the most popular IP's and smoothest launches is one of the greater Paradoxes. I hope the delay is because they are taking a hard look at the core problem with the game that more expacs can't help with - terrible MAA system and the fact that as you grow larger, there isn't a greater focus on stabilizing internally. So late game, like a ton of other Paradox titles becomes uninteresting. They fundamentally need to fix this so the game isn't boring by the time you hit King level.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:01
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MAA was a mistake.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:26
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I don't think the MAA was a mistake, I think it was just implemented poorly. You should be rewarded for mixing up your MAA instead of penalized for it. They also need to even out the power of each unit too. As it stands, there are some MAA that you should just never ever touch, and ones that you should building nothing but them. It just needs a total revamp.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:40
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Yeah at their heart MAA are just retinues. The problems are far from unsalvageable.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:47
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Yeah the issue I think is decoupling retinues from the lands you rule and the political organization of your state.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:48
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I liked them at first but now, after so many games, I would rather have CK2 both retinues and levies back And have knights nerfed too But I have the feeling paradox thinks these are all good as they are and do not intend to a change a thing. Maybe is only a minority complaining and most players like it the way it is, I have no idea edit: actually one of the thing I think made CK2 retinues better is that they were a standing army that was on the map all the time and had to be manually moved around. That meant you couldn’t always count on them since often they would take a lot of time and attrition to get to were you needed them, if you are suddenly attacked on some far away province. You had to rely on local troops a lot more often, also since in CK2 also you had your whole army just anywhere you want, they would raise were they belong. that made having a big empire a lot more challenging. I get that in CK3 they wanted to streamline things, but I think it went a bit far and made war a lot easier while still being a lot of busy work (for all the wack a mole you are forced to play, which is worst than it was in CK2) Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Feb 23, 2023 |
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Feb 23, 2023 21:55
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Elias_Maluco posted:I liked them at first but now, after so many games, I would rather have CK2 both retinues and levies back Knights are ridiculously powerful. You know the system is bad when levees are irrelevant mid game
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Feb 23, 2023 22:01
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I tried writing a bit about drawing specialised MaAs from your vassals, and how perceived vassal loyalty should be a thing, but I can't really put words to my mental ramblings right now. I just really like the idea of each region/ruler producing specialist troops, but it all falls apart when you don't really use MaAs outside of your own and mercenaries. Vassals just give you a stack of useless peasants, why aren't they supplying their actual troops, too? It's a bit of a fantasy trope, the specialists from different regions, but it feels like that was what they were trying to do, anyway? And about the perceived loyalty thing - it feels like a shoe-in to have your vassal show up for your war, just to turn heel mid-fight or even joining the enemy, who's been making offers behind your back. Yet it.. doesn't really materialise itself like that ingame.
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Feb 23, 2023 22:11
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THE BAR posted:I tried writing a bit about drawing specialised MaAs from your vassals, and how perceived vassal loyalty should be a thing, but I can't really put words to my mental ramblings right now. I just really like the idea of each region/ruler producing specialist troops, but it all falls apart when you don't really use MaAs outside of your own and mercenaries. Vassals just give you a stack of useless peasants, why aren't they supplying their actual troops, too? I think stopping the stacking buffs or giving them severe diminishing returns is a good start. Jacking up the maintenance cost, especially in the late game would also help. I don't have a problem with MAAs per say but you shouldn't be butchering levees to the tune of 20 or 30 to 1 by stacking bonuses. Levees need to remain essential the entire game. They also have to find a way to just stop with the endless whackamole approach to warfare where you are endlessly chasing down stacks or abusing the movement lock in system to force a fight. THE BAR posted:And about the perceived loyalty thing - it feels like a shoe-in to have your vassal show up for your war, just to turn heel mid-fight or even joining the enemy, who's been making offers behind your back. Yet it.. doesn't really materialise itself like that ingame. This is actually good in terms of an idea. You shouldn't have some picture-perfect notion of what your vassal's opinion score of you is. Right now it is very easy to maintain internal order. You know exactly what everyone's opinion of you is and how to precisely farm enough of it to essentially be able to ignore your realm. Some of the more ridiculous intrigue stat things should be diverted to more accurately parse out what their true opinion is of you and obfuscate that number from you in return and also hide it from faction and faction strength calculations. A player is far less likely to embark on foreign adventures if they don't have perfect information on what is going on at home. Is buddy actually satisfied or he is secretly in bed (figuratively and literally?) with your half-brother's faction to claim the throne? Tie events to the idea of trying to find out "true opinion" to encourage the idea of limiting invasive spying which may cause resentment with true friends etc.
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Feb 23, 2023 22:30
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MikeC posted:Knights are ridiculously powerful. You know the system is bad when levees are irrelevant mid game I like knights. They make playing small and being militarily dominant a possibility, with the proper build. I do think stacking military bonuses on buildings, which can disproportionately affect knights, does need a look.
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Feb 23, 2023 22:36
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Omnicarus posted:CK3 just weirdly dying on the vine despite it being one of the most popular IP's and smoothest launches is one of the greater Paradoxes. I've been feeling this way too. Any communication about the future has come off as obnoxious or as just someone loving around. There's not a lot to be excited about
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Feb 23, 2023 22:38
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There are a lot of systems that contribute to knights and maa being op, which again just highlights how many different ways one could come at solving this problem. That I can start every game by using unmarried female courtiers (which you can practically force the game to spam for you with the find doctor decision) and matrilineally marry an 80 year old dying of great pox to a demigod of a hostile faith halfway around the globe and then repeat over and over is a great little microcosm of how a bunch of unfinished concepts come together to make something broken in a players hands. They fixed the “dread larder” prisoner cheese but so many equivalents remain that need a similar balance pass.
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Feb 23, 2023 22:59
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THE BAR posted:I tried writing a bit about drawing specialised MaAs from your vassals, and how perceived vassal loyalty should be a thing, but I can't really put words to my mental ramblings right now. I just really like the idea of each region/ruler producing specialist troops, but it all falls apart when you don't really use MaAs outside of your own and mercenaries. Vassals just give you a stack of useless peasants, why aren't they supplying their actual troops, too? Am I alone in liking how the Game of Thrones/ASoIaF mod for CK2 handled this?
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Feb 23, 2023 23:07
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That mod owns but I think the allied AI wasn't awesome. The Ck3 version is in closed beta!
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Feb 23, 2023 23:20
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Yeah, I don't know why I'm so much more excited for Stellaris than for CK3 these days. Even Elder Kings 2 didn't reignite my interest in CK3. Perhaps once merchant republics become playable, or the internal management gets a huge shakeup in tow with the Byzantines DLC (which would be a logical combination imho), it will get better. But for now, I don't play the game because it's boring me 
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Feb 23, 2023 23:40
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MikeC posted:Knights are ridiculously powerful. You know the system is bad when levees are irrelevant mid game I feel like the thing Knights are really missing is that they should start demanding lands/privileges if they're serving all the time.
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Feb 24, 2023 00:01
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PittTheElder posted:I feel like the thing Knights are really missing is that they should start demanding lands/privileges if they're serving all the time. In Royal Court, they do demand lands! In at least one event...
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Feb 24, 2023 01:04
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PittTheElder posted:I feel like the thing Knights are really missing is that they should start demanding lands/privileges if they're serving all the time. Maybe that would help. Though the strategy I pursued when I was still active was using the best and loyal ones to marry the women and give them lands to anyone who was in an actual faction that was semi-dangerous. Then you just do a quick character search and look for the next one. They just feel way too powerful for what is essentially an inexhaustible resource. The stat bloat in the game also makes it problematic. I recall seeing battles where a handful of knights would combine for hundreds of kills which in mid-game could be 10% of someone's levy stack. That is somewhat associated with the problem that people don't die in battle when it should be an incredibly risky thing. People negotiated, even with rebels, all the time to avoid battles. A civil war could destabilize both side's family tree by having all their kids get slaughtered.
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Feb 24, 2023 01:14
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I think a reasonable nerf would be to make it so that building modifiers don't stack. Only the modifier from your highest level building of each type applies, but you still get gold/levies.
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Feb 24, 2023 01:14
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Eh, there's probably dozens of ways of fixing the levies vs maa+knights issue, all of them good. It's more concerning that they're not being explored, much like how lifestyle and legacy trees are just being left as-is. edit: I bring this up as I just did a game where I used the Intrigue dynasty tree for a gimmick run, and boy howdy did it do absolutely nothing except maybe save a teensy bit of gold bribing people. The game balance doesn't need to be competitive for pvp or any such sillyness, but just having good alternate playstyles would add a lot of replay value to the game. Traditions did a lot towards this, but it'd be nice if existing things where tweaked instead of having to add huge new systems all the time. Serephina fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Feb 24, 2023 |
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Feb 24, 2023 01:48
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I feel like going back to the CK2 system where your troops come from the land might actually work better than the current useless generic levies system. The reason it didn't work in CK2 is because everybody ultimately ended up with the same composition anyway, since buildings were mostly the same across the entire world barring the unique cultural ones, and there was no reason not to just build every building in a holding so long as you could afford it. In CK3 though, the limited slots per holding means you can't build every building, and there's a lot more terrain-specific variation of buildings. Both of these factors I think would work much better with the system of deriving unit types from buildings instead of MaA, allowing you to specialize the composition of your army based on what you choose to construct, which itself would be influenced by what sort of terrain makes up the bulk of your realm. It would also mean that really huge realms wouldn't really be able to do the single unit type unstoppable doomstacks that the current game mechanics encourage, because they'd be relying more on vassals and whatever troop type composition they happen to have gone for. There would probably need to be a rethinking of how siege engines would work, since they become pretty mandatory as the game goes on and giving up an entire building slot for them no matter how big your realm is would be a bit of a pain. I'm thinking maybe the MaA system could still stick around, but with only one or two slots that can stack higher than the current MaA, but still working out to less overall. It'd allow you to still have a specialized core of your army, and then those units would have siege engines attached to them based on whatever your current tech level allows for. I don't think the problem really is that knights/MaA are too good, it's that levies are too bad. Huge realms end up as paper tigers compared to smaller, but more optimized, player realms and once you hit that mid-tier size where you have enough income to support maxing out all your MaA stacks, you end up just not even bothering to raise your levies anymore at all. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Feb 24, 2023 |
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Feb 24, 2023 02:47
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Levies vs. MaA is ahistorical and should be abolished!!!
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Feb 24, 2023 03:30
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The rally points should be buildings, with your capital counting as a default one.
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Feb 24, 2023 06:17
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Serephina posted:Eh, there's probably dozens of ways of fixing the levies vs maa+knights issue, all of them good. It's more concerning that they're not being explored, much like how lifestyle and legacy trees are just being left as-is. I mean you can just remove Intrigue lifestyles from the game and it would be better off for it. Popoto posted:The rally points should be buildings, with your capital counting as a default one. Now this is an interesting idea.
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Feb 24, 2023 07:24
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PittTheElder posted:I mean you can just remove Intrigue lifestyles from the game and it would be better off for it. Some of y'all have never fabricated a hook/kidnapped someone and it shows. Seducer lifestyle, meanwhile, can totally disappear
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Feb 24, 2023 09:44
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Yea Pitt I suspect you aren't fully utilizing the power of loving-with-them that ck3 provides, intrigue lifestyle guys are great fun. The left stabby tree is outstanding, but the seduction one can go poof and nobody would complain (except the perverts who can't wait for a religion change before they're allowed to gently caress their kids).
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Feb 24, 2023 10:10
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The problem is less what they allow you to and more that you have to dip into half a dozen lifestyles to unlock the most obvious and basic functionality. There are far too many ”enable X scheme“ functions are so blindingly obvious that they should be available to all character, and the perk should rather be a bonus (improved chance, extra schemes, lower cost, whatever) to that scheme. A bunch of trees suffers from two problems at once: on the one hand they lock obvious stuff (and often too high up to boot), but their bonuses are too marginal or weak.
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Feb 24, 2023 12:01
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At the same time, in diplomacy, 2 of the most powerful tools to make vassals happy are tier 1 (thoughtful and befriend)
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Feb 24, 2023 12:05
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I only use the intrigue tree when I'm a vassal and I want to go around loving (and loving with) all the other vassals just for fun. I'm doing a run right now where I started as a duke in the Byzantine Empire. I seduced the empress, and we had a couple secret babies together. I also got her to matrilineally marry her first legitimate son to my daughter and then my dynasty was ruling the empire after a couple generations. Of course that didn't last because my daughter ended up having only daughters herself, and the AI doesn't do matrilineal marriages I guess so they all got married off to other dynasties. If I'm an independent ruler, I pretty much don't touch the intrigue tree except to maybe pick up a couple of the perks under torturer and schemer, and that's usually only if I really need to get back at some people. There are a handful of lifestyle trees I almost never touch, Theologian (unless I need to reform my religion), Patriarch/Matriarch, Administrator, Gallant, and Seducer. There's some good stuff in each of those trees, but I find the good ones are way too far down the list, and I have to work my way through a bunch of perks that have little benefit to me. Meanwhile, I almost always go for the Scholar tree, and if I'm broke, Avaracious.
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Feb 24, 2023 13:39
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scaterry posted:Some of y'all have never fabricated a hook/kidnapped someone and it shows. Seduction is by far the worst tree in the game, I don't think it's even close.
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Feb 24, 2023 13:43
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Bird in a Blender posted:There are a handful of lifestyle trees I almost never touch, Theologian (unless I need to reform my religion), Patriarch/Matriarch, Administrator, Gallant, and Seducer. There's some good stuff in each of those trees, but I find the good ones are way too far down the list, and I have to work my way through a bunch of perks that have little benefit to me. Meanwhile, I almost always go for the Scholar tree, and if I'm broke, Avaracious. I'll rarely go for Administrator on purpose (except maybe a few high up in the tree for the opinion bonuses), but if inheritance lands me as a young character with a large and fractious empire, I'm never upset if they've already gone down the Admin tree.
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Feb 24, 2023 14:15
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Bird in a Blender posted:There are a handful of lifestyle trees I almost never touch ... Gallant ... I find the good ones are way too far down the list, and I have to work my way through a bunch of perks that have little benefit to me. Gallant is a 4 point wonder. Unlock makes you a lot less likely to die, and then the 3 right hand picks gives you a flat 10% damage boost to every fight your ruler is in, a 75% damage boost to your knights, and 4 extra knights. 4 points that require not digging through the tree to find interesting things, and should probably be your first 4 unlocks on any martial focused feudal lord (and every single tribal ruler).
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Feb 24, 2023 18:09
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Yeah Gallant is unbelievably good.Serephina posted:Yea Pitt I suspect you aren't fully utilizing the power of loving-with-them that ck3 provides, intrigue lifestyle guys are great fun. The left stabby tree is outstanding But what are you actually using any of this for? Hooks on your liege are generally easy to come by, Fabricate Secrets gets you loads on other rulers though less reliably. Stabbing a bunch of AI rulers could be destabilizing I guess, but it's often not hard without that tree, and the AI is already god awful at stabilizing their realm...
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Feb 24, 2023 18:55
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah Gallant is unbelievably good. Fabricate Secrets is the perk-locked upgrade that fixes that unreliability if you want to - and yeah you don't always want to and you don't always need to, but the thing about the Scheme tree is that it gives you a _lot_ more control over timing than just doing without: hooks whenever you want, get characters out of play and in prison when you want, never run out of scheme slots ever, so whatever plan you have in mind has a lot less dependence on the AI cooperating. You don't need any of this to win but frankly this game is easy enough that you don't need any particular thing to win, whether it's elaborate Littlefinger schemes or eugenics-bred superknights or minmaxed MaA comps or whatever. Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Feb 24, 2023 |
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Feb 24, 2023 19:11
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