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It's not so much about the difficulty as it is about the comms. Voice chat cannot be effectively policed to stop people from having a bad experience, there are too many intentional assholes, too many oblivious dipshits, and no way to automate discipline at scale. If there is voice chat, there must be someone with a kick button who can respond quickly, if only for the chilling social effect. Matchmade groups can't have a kick feature because there's no way to make that fair and untrollable. Therefore, matchmade groups cannot have voice. Dungeons can be beaten without voice if everyone knows what they're doing, but three strangers learning a dungeon without voice, simultaneously, is not a reasonable ask and it would be irresponsible of Bungie to put a button in the director that dropped players into that situation. So dungeons cannot have automatic matchmaking Same argument for raids, only more so, because you don't even have the option of skilled players going through the motions with no comms, most raid encounters cannot be done at all without callouts haveblue fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 18:14
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A Buffer Gay Dude posted:I think reckoning is a terrible example! hey man that's cool why tho
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Feb 25, 2023 18:33
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I miss reckoning, it was good and fun Got a godroll rose today now I can go back to ignoring comp except for bright dust rewards lol E: yay, and finally cloudstrike, not looking forward to grinding the cata though. gently caress they really need to just let it be ready to go on drop, 400 kills ffs bungie. PathAsc fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 18:41
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Walked posted:So I'm new to the game. It was at Rahool for me but pretty sure I had to go to his second or third page for it to show up. Did you click the arrows to page through his stuff?
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Feb 25, 2023 19:50
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haveblue posted:It's not so much about the difficulty as it is about the comms. Voice chat cannot be effectively policed to stop people from having a bad experience, there are too many intentional assholes, too many oblivious dipshits, and no way to automate discipline at scale. If there is voice chat, there must be someone with a kick button who can respond quickly, if only for the chilling social effect. Matchmade groups can't have a kick feature because there's no way to make that fair and untrollable. Therefore, matchmade groups cannot have voice. What lol. Just mute them, the hell. There existed games other than Destiny that have the same problems and those games live just fine. This Chicken Little moaning about how bad in game matchmaking is crazy to me. Somehow LFG aka matchmaking with extra steps is so much better than just putting it in the game like everybody else does.
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Feb 25, 2023 19:51
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RBX posted:What lol. Just mute them, the hell. There existed games other than Destiny that have the same problems and those games live just fine. This Chicken Little moaning about how bad in game matchmaking is crazy to me. Somehow LFG aka matchmaking with extra steps is so much better than just putting it in the game like everybody else does. The playerbase of destiny 2 expects almost all matchmade activities to be a "no-fail" or "fail forward" experience because Bungie has set that expectation with Strikes and seasonal activities. Perhaps the upcoming difficulty increase might help prime the playerbase for a game where matchmaking dungeons is something they can start doing? Regardless, I feel like it's more that it's really not a big deal that dungeons and raids do not have matchmaking, and really do not think it would improve the game to add matchmaking to those activities.
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Feb 25, 2023 20:36
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Huh? I've literally never heard of this line of thinking. Why would that be a worry? Is that some new buzzword I don't know? How dumb do people think the average player is in this game that they can't comprehend basic reward structure.
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Feb 25, 2023 20:47
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Are we getting horney about video games up itt??
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Feb 25, 2023 21:05
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Nooner posted:Are we getting horney about video games up itt?? It is established in the lore by SA's own General Battuta that Guardians are never horny (as they cannot procreate)
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Feb 25, 2023 21:13
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The Drifter isn't a Guardian and he is horny so this tracks. But Zavala is a Guardian and is horny so further research may be required.
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Feb 25, 2023 21:14
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life_source posted:The Drifter isn't a Guardian and he is horny so this tracks. Drifter is a guardian, he’s just older than classes and he hosed up his ghost so you never see it
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Feb 25, 2023 21:20
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Kith posted:Though I have to ask, since it seems like you know: does the player character actually have access to the Lore Books, or are they there for the user? I always interpreted them to be separate from The Guardian's pool of knowledge because there's a lot of poo poo in there that it would be useful for other characters to know that they never act on. answer is- it kind of depends, I think? some are actual documents in-universe, that our guardian got access to in some way. (maybe Ikora has roped them in on her spy ring a little bit). Stuff that's formatted like letters or camera recordings, or stuff like unveiling where it's a message that Eris wrote down, that sort of thing. Like unveiling, truth to power and the books of sorrow are actual like, books that guardians share with each other. Marasenna's in this category, too. Other stuff will depict things that happened, but in a third person narrative way. Stuff where it's like "Zavala did this, and felt that, etc. etc." These ones it's unclear if our guardian actually knows them. Maybe they know the broad strokes because someone told them. There are a bunch, usually dealing with enemy stuff where I have no idea- like Rhulk's backstory, or the backstory of the Pit of Heresy. Maybe they wrote it down and we translated it? Or maybe they wanted to share. I dunno!
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Feb 25, 2023 21:32
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RBX posted:Huh? I've literally never heard of this line of thinking. Why would that be a worry? Is that some new buzzword I don't know? How dumb do people think the average player is in this game that they can't comprehend basic reward structure. Do you know how many times people ignore objectives and continue to just shoot things... when the objective is "hold E to open door" or "stand on glowing plate"?
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Feb 25, 2023 21:33
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RBX posted:Huh? I've literally never heard of this line of thinking. Why would that be a worry? Is that some new buzzword I don't know? How dumb do people think the average player is in this game that they can't comprehend basic reward structure. Stuff like Reckoning made the playerbase angry/frustrated because you could queue up for it, spend a bunch of time, fail, and get no (or minimal) rewards, and being queued with bad randos felt like they were ruining your run. The option to find people to group up with was there, but most didn't bother because there was basically the barest of friction to encourage players to do so. "This content would be a worse experience through matchmaking, and Bungie would prefer to avoid encouraging that" is what it really just comes down to. Again, it really comes down to establishing expectations - if something has matchmaking, you're basically guaranteed to clear it. If it does not, then you actually should expect to prepare and plan for difficulty, and appropriately, find other players.
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Feb 25, 2023 21:37
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i do sometimes think people underestimate the ability of people to complete objectives when the game is clear enough about them. ff14 has a matchmaking pool of like 60+ instances that all have slightly different stuff going on and everything is role-based and yet i feel like i can count on one hand the number of times ive had to straight up abandon a dungeon because someone wasn't doing their poo poo that said: destiny dungeons/raids i think could never really be matchmaking friendly because of how necessary voice chat and callouts are; that's not how ff14 instances work outside of endgame. you definitely have to play a role and nail your mechanics but you do not have to do any real communication. i do think experimenting with harder matchmade content is great, though - i convinced a friend to come play the witch queen free weekend and plunk down ten bucks for seraph and he was super impressed at the heist battlegrounds, it's really the missing "heroic" difficulty in a lot of ways
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Feb 25, 2023 21:45
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Mazerunner posted:There are a bunch, usually dealing with enemy stuff where I have no idea- like Rhulk's backstory, or the backstory of the Pit of Heresy. Maybe they wrote it down and we translated it? Or maybe they wanted to share. I dunno! Half of Rhulk’s lorebook is obtained by clicking on stuff in Preservation which he then tells you about.
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Feb 25, 2023 21:55
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PERMACAV 50 posted:Drifter is a guardian, he’s just older than classes and he hosed up his ghost so you never see it Guardian is a cultural distinction. Player characters are Risen and Guardians. Drifter is a Risen, not a Guardian. Warlords are Risen and not Guardians because they are/were explicitly opposed to Guardian ideals. Iron Lords are (previously superset now a subset of) Guardians. Shadows of Yor are Risen and not Guardians because they are opposed to Guardian ideals. What I'm saying is that Zavala has achieved something beyond being a Guardian which allows him to be horny.
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Feb 25, 2023 21:58
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RBX posted:Huh? I've literally never heard of this line of thinking. Why would that be a worry? Is that some new buzzword I don't know? How dumb do people think the average player is in this game that they can't comprehend basic reward structure. A couple of weeks ago in the Vanguard Ops playlist I ran Scarlet Keep with two people who had a combined 583 season levels (I was around 140 at the time) and neither of them would pick up an orb at the first bridge. I don't know if they refused to or didn't know you had to but after I dunked the first one they just stood there for a while. I wasn't in a hurry so I waitied a few minutes and they sort of moved around but didn't make for the second orb. I'm pretty sure if I hand't gotten the second orb we might still be stitting there.
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Feb 25, 2023 22:03
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The discussion is oddly moot because it's not a matter of "Does Bungie think the community could succeed in matchmade _____" They want matchmaking in modes that they think should offer a consistent experience & difficulty level, and they want No Matchmaking in modes that they want players to be able to Choose their fireteam size. They consider Campaigns, Legend/Master Content, exotic missions, Raids and Dungeons to be in the same "bucket" of activities in this regard and it has nothing to do with their faith in the common player's abilities to get it done. Priority 1 is let the player decide if they want 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 people in this activity. External (and next fall's in game) LFG tools are considered a viable solution to the problem The Solo GMer and the Trio King's Fallers have more influence on Bungie's game design than the random fella who wants to do raids but has no friends. Sucks if you're in the latter, but Movie Of The Week is never a fireteam of 6 completing a normal Raid, so... The Firewall Node is not an option due to UI limitations
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Feb 25, 2023 22:08
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PERMACAV 50 posted:the utility of always on time is honestly massively overstated; it’s just good for the opening of DSC and that middle part of grasp. You can easily make the DSC sparrow section without ever boosting anywhere except a few jumps, and it's not the sparrowing that makes the Grasp gauntlet tricky, it's not getting randomly physics killed by the launchers at the end.
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Feb 25, 2023 22:09
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sunday at work posted:A couple of weeks ago in the Vanguard Ops playlist I ran Scarlet Keep with two people who had a combined 583 season levels (I was around 140 at the time) and neither of them would pick up an orb at the first bridge. I don't know if they refused to or didn't know you had to but after I dunked the first one they just stood there for a while. I wasn't in a hurry so I waitied a few minutes and they sort of moved around but didn't make for the second orb. I'm pretty sure if I hand't gotten the second orb we might still be stitting there. Another issue is you might end up with a fireteam mate who is working on their catalysts or bounties. Pubbie #6 is here to work on his "Create 50 Orbs In Raid and Dungeon Activities" bounty and when he finishes it, he dips. Peace!
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Feb 25, 2023 22:11
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Mazerunner posted:answer is- it kind of depends, I think? All the gear you find just has a little piece of paper taped to it with some lore scribbled on the back
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Feb 25, 2023 22:42
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All I can offer is my two experiences trying guided games, the closest thing to matchmade raids right now. First time, I was solo and got paired with a group of five. It was their first time on this raid (Last Wish), they had zero knowledge, and pretty poor loadouts. I had never intended on being a sherpa but I gave it a solid try. We struggled on the first boss and got stuck on Shuro- can't imagine how vault/Riven/walk would go. Anyway I bailed, and got penalized iirc. Second time I was in the group of five, and we picked up a random. They didn't have voice comms, and didn't respond to our messages. By their behaviour it was clear they had no idea what was going on, and either no capability to hear our instructions or desire to learn. Eventually we disbanded, and got penalized. So yeah pure matchmaking doesn't work, I think, for harder content. If you say, 'well it can be an option, and if you don't want to matchmake you can stick with lfg', but that just means all the people who know what's up will be on lfg, and matchmaking will be a terrible experience, so why bother? In-game lfg, with filters and a leader who can boot (and no penalties for leaving...) probably should be a thing though again I kind of think- you know what, it's probably not going to be as good as what discord allows for, so maybe it would actually be better use of bungie's time and resources to... not.
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Feb 25, 2023 22:42
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abraham linksys posted:i do sometimes think people underestimate the ability of people to complete objectives when the game is clear enough about them. ff14 has a matchmaking pool of like 60+ instances that all have slightly different stuff going on and everything is role-based and yet i feel like i can count on one hand the number of times ive had to straight up abandon a dungeon because someone wasn't doing their poo poo Raids, dungeons, and GMs are considered endgame content and have no matchmaking. You’re not doing FF14 Savage raids with no voice chat.
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Feb 25, 2023 22:44
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The one time I ever tried a Guided Game raid, I got bird errored on the walk up to Kalli, got penalized and barred from re-entry, and thus the entire thing died before it even started.
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Feb 25, 2023 22:48
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Bungie is great at matchmaking. How are we not addressing that Anna Bray and The Stranger are now a couple.
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Feb 25, 2023 23:19
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they are sisters what the gently caress
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Feb 25, 2023 23:22
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Basic Poster posted:Bungie is great at matchmaking. How are we not addressing that Anna Bray and The Stranger are now a couple. Uh what, they’re sisters Also, Ana’s dating some scientist in the Last City named Camrin. There’s a bunch of lore entries about it, and this season had a post-Heist voice exchange about Elsie wanting to meet her
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Feb 25, 2023 23:27
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Mazerunner posted:There are a bunch, usually dealing with enemy stuff where I have no idea- like Rhulk's backstory, or the backstory of the Pit of Heresy. Maybe they wrote it down and we translated it? Or maybe they wanted to share. I dunno! Yeah some of it there is just no plausible way anyone could have learned or communicated it within the game world, usually because it's someone's private thoughts or events no one could have witnessed or survived. These are almost universally written in third person omniscient perspective with no in-world framing which is a pretty reliable tell
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Feb 25, 2023 23:34
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Osiris and Saint are canonically half brothers by a shared adoptive father, just like Ana and Elizabeth... it's really not that weird for a platonic couple
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Feb 25, 2023 23:39
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Jesus Christ Bungie release the expansion and save us from ourselves.
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Feb 25, 2023 23:41
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I am not sure Osiris considered the Speaker a father figure, more a teacher and mentor. Though him then getting close with his teachers son is a safe amount of weird.
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Feb 25, 2023 23:42
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life_source posted:I am not sure Osiris considered the Speaker a father figure, more a teacher and mentor. https://youtu.be/m_9hfHvQSNo
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Feb 25, 2023 23:54
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don't tell me yall've never thought about banging your same sex sibling if they had a robot body and you were reborn by a benevolent God as an immortal space wizard.
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Feb 26, 2023 00:04
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ullerrm posted:Uh what, they’re sisters
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Feb 26, 2023 00:20
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Is it traditional that bungee has some sort of live event on the eve before a new expansion? I remember getting to explore the last city before Beyond Light went live
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Feb 26, 2023 00:30
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neutral milf hotel posted:Is it traditional that bungee has some sort of live event on the eve before a new expansion? I remember getting to explore the last city before Beyond Light went live They only did it at the end of Season of the Worthy and Season of Arrivals and then never again. I can only conclude they must have decided it was a failed experiment. I do miss them though, they were cool.
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Feb 26, 2023 00:31
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Osiris and Saint are canonically half brothers by a shared adoptive father, just like Ana and Elizabeth... it's really not that weird for a platonic couple Osiris and Saint canonically first meet in this entry from Pigeon and the Phoenix, from Season of the Dawn. They are both grown-rear end adults at this point (or as much as a Guardian gets, anyways), and have been making their own way in the world at this point. I don't think that's comparable to Ana and Elizabeth
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Feb 26, 2023 00:44
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The live events were a bad fit for the game, both of them required you to log in at an exact time and then stand around waiting for something to happen for too long (in the Worthy event, much much much too long). It would annoy anyone but probably especially annoyed the loot efficiency optimization people They were clearly replaced by the seasonal epilogue missions, which give you a period of weeks in which to see it and within the mission is better pacing centered on one player or fireteam at a time I do hope we visit the wreckage of the Almighty at some point haveblue fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Feb 26, 2023 |
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Feb 26, 2023 00:50
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kurona_bright posted:Osiris and Saint canonically first meet in this entry from Pigeon and the Phoenix, from Season of the Dawn. They are both grown-rear end adults at this point (or as much as a Guardian gets, anyways), and have been making their own way in the world at this point. I don't think that's comparable to Ana and Elizabeth Ana and Elsie have also not aged a day since they met
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Feb 26, 2023 01:13
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