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Icarium is kind of a big deal. Plus the story of him and Mappo is one of the best in the whole series, in my opinion.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:38
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Rhulad could be hundred or thousands of years old, the Tiste live super long. But he's a little poo poo and not very smart.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:50
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Jaxyon posted:- the plot threads do have a central theme that will eventually tie together by the end, and a few that won't make sense until entire books later. It's one of the reasons poeple say this series is a rewarding re-read I say this with love and compassion but surely this is the ultimate, apex form of "just stick with it, it gets good by book eight": stick with it, it gets good on the re-read
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Feb 1, 2023 20:31
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General Battuta posted:I say this with love and compassion but surely this is the ultimate, apex form of "just stick with it, it gets good by book eight": stick with it, it gets good on the re-read Nah if you don't like it stop reading it. I liked it on the first read, and like it on rereads. I enjoy rereading Malazan much more than I do other fantasy series, and younger me was a meganerd who used to re-read Wheel of Time. Most of the plots tie together in the same book. The milky ocean story line is specifically a minor side plot that gets intentionally pieced together across like 5 different books. The only "stick with it" I'd give is the big quality jump from Book 1 to Book 2. It's noticeable. But even then, if you don't like book 1, that's cool, you can stop there.
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Feb 1, 2023 20:59
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Jaxyon posted:Rhulad could be hundred or thousands of years old, the Tiste live super long. He's the archetypal youngest child who gets away with all kinds of poo poo, so seemingly the first time he ever learns about consequences is when an Erikson plot happens to him. And that poo poo's harsh.
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Feb 1, 2023 22:03
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kingturnip posted:He's the archetypal youngest child who gets away with all kinds of poo poo, so seemingly the first time he ever learns about consequences is when an Erikson plot happens to him. And that poo poo's harsh. I think Erikson does try to make the reader feel bad for Rhulad with how much he describes his physical pain and mental anguish + loneliness. But a lot of Rhulad's moves have no explanation. You can have little brother complex but stealing your brothers wife?, he doesn't trust his parents for whatever reason but trusts Triban Gnol with his life. I think the idea of Rhulad was so great. Unkillable emperor studded in gold coins ruling over the comically crazy capitalist Letherii. As a tool of TCG he fits perfectly, the pain of dying over and over makes him more like TCG. But it doesn't make sense how he benefitted TCG in anyway. But he just seems to be a plot device with no actual character development. mischief posted:Icarium is kind of a big deal. I meant specifically in Reapers Gale, his plot seemed to end with him activating his device but so far we the reader don't really know what it does. We know it costs human lives thats it. As far as duos Icarium/Mappo is fine, but I feel like people overate them a bit. Fiddler/Hedge, Trull/Onrack, Tehol/Bugg, Karsa/Samar, Toc/Tool, Toc/bad luck, Quick Ben/Kalam. Like the whole bonehunters have lots of pairings which have amazing chemistry. Then there are many amazing temporary parties/duos. Trull/Onrack is the true bromance of the series for me. Them both having lost everything and learning about each other. Then seeing how they grow is amazing. Ulio fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 22:16
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Ulio posted:I think Erikson does try to make the reader feel bad for Rhulad with how much he describes his physical pain and mental anguish + loneliness. But a lot of Rhulad's moves have no explanation. You can have little brother complex but stealing your brothers wife?, he doesn't trust his parents for whatever reason but trusts Triban Gnol with his life. I think the idea of Rhulad was so great. Unkillable emperor studded in gold coins ruling over the comically crazy capitalist Letherii. As a tool of TCG he fits perfectly, the pain of dying over and over makes him more like TCG. But it doesn't make sense how he benefitted TCG in anyway. But he just seems to be a plot device with no actual character development. He benefits TCG by being a figure of endless suffering and destroying two powerful civilizations he trusts Triban Gnol because he's an emotionally stunted easily manipulated child who's mad at this family also lonely
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Feb 1, 2023 23:28
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Yeah, I always read Rhulad as an angsty teenager wanting to get even with the oh-so-cruel world. TCG collects broken people, it makes sense he'd be a good target.
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Feb 1, 2023 23:59
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I'll always appreciate Karsa's part in Reaper's Gale if for no other reason than "Don't do it again."
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Feb 2, 2023 04:38
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Most of the way through Midnight Tides now and it's turned around for me, as someone said in this thread it's drat good fantasy. I've finally met some of the Crimson Guard, do they live up to how cool they're promising to be here?
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Feb 4, 2023 06:04
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Thordain posted:Most of the way through Midnight Tides now and it's turned around for me, as someone said in this thread it's drat good fantasy. Let's just say you should enjoy them in Midnight Tides Or, rather, enjoy them in Midnight Tides and wish them well and then forget about them Basically, they stink in every book Esselmont writes that they feature in. Some individual characters' plotlines aren't bad, but as a group, they make for some of the worst sections of his books. kingturnip fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Feb 4, 2023 |
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Feb 4, 2023 09:26
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Oh Snapple! posted:I'll always appreciate Karsa's part in Reaper's Gale if for no other reason than "Don't do it again." Karsa will always be one of my favorites. The new Karsa book is incredibly good. It's so fascinating to watch first time readers react to his chapters as they develop. “I was needed, but I myself did not need. I had followers, but not allies, and only now do I understand the difference. And it is vast.”
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Feb 4, 2023 18:53
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kingturnip posted:Let's just say you should enjoy them in Midnight Tides I actually disagree with this, I thought Return of the Crimson Guard was the best ICE book and the only one I would recommend actually reading during the course of reading the main series (between Reapers Gale and Toll the Hounds). Though now that I'm thinking about it, the highlights weren't necessarily the Guard themselves as much as the huge plot reveal and other characters surrounding it.
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Feb 4, 2023 20:23
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Jaxyon posted:He benefits TCG by being a figure of endless suffering and destroying two powerful civilizations What? By the end of Reapers Gale Letheras is in better hands than before TCG's meddling. As for the Edur, I do agree.
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Feb 6, 2023 20:50
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Hello Malazan thread. I'm a Malazan newcomer who has not read this thread to avoid accidentally spoiling myself. I have read the Gardens of the Moon twice, first time many years ago and now again more recently. I'm thinking about jumping in to the rest of the saga but it feels really intimidating to be honest. My biggest issue is that these days I usually "read" my books in audiobook format, and that is the way i'm planning on reading Malazan as well. However i'm not sure if I can actually follow the dense writing that way and I can easily miss some importand details as well as the many many proper nouns splattered all over. I guess I just have to try and see what happens. Here are some of my short impressions about the Gardens of the Moon. There are many things that are I did not understand or are otherwise vague, and I do not expect to get some of these answers until later in the series, if ever. There are so many characters, and apparently some even have more than one name. For example if I understood correctly Cotillion is the same dude as Rope, and so on. Is Rope some sort of title or why does that character have multiple names? Or did I just misunderstand. Like goddamn if you introduce tens or hundreds of characters at least let them be refered by the same names  The High house of Shadow and so on, is it the same thing as a Warren of Shadow? Or is the high house again some a title, like ruler of a specific Warren, so a god of some sort? Does every Warren have a god ruler? How does a wizard gain access to specific Warren, do they have to worship that particular god? If so, who is the god the Imperial Warren then? Is it too obvious that the Warren of Shadow became accessible at the same time as the previous Emperor was murdered? So if I guess the previous emperor and his pal Dancer are the Shadowthrone and Cotillion (Rope?). Or, if the Shadow is patron of assassins then are the emperors assassins the new gods? Ascendants are mentioned multiple times so I assume humans can ascend to godhood somehow. Also, is the Shadowthrone a title or a name, so can the ascendants choose their name after they ascend? If the emperor ascended to some Shadow godhood then choosing Shadowthrone as a name would be quite on the nose. On the other hand they talk about Tiste Edur(?) occupying the throne previously so maybe I am reading too much into the name. Quick Ben is a former high priest of Shadow. What does that mean? Is the power of wizards somehow connected to priesthoods or is that completely separate thing, and if so what does it mean to be a priest? There are 7 hounds of Shadow, and Quick Ben opening 7 Warrens at the climactic endfight. Is this just a coincidence considering his past as high priest? Also Seven Cities are mentioned but this is probably a stretch. What does it even mean to open or access multiple Warrens? Who can do that and why? Is it like Dragonball style powerup where more Warrens is more power? Well at least the Jaghut defeated Quick Ben with only one Warren, but I guess he was just too big badass anyway. It is alluded that the T'lan Imass are some distant ancestors or predecessor of humans or maybe even are actually humans. And those Elder dream sequences, whatever those are, include some timewarp fuckery so I imagine these things will be visited later. What the hell actually happened at the climax of the battle? Something called Azath treehouse grew up and imprisoned the Jaghut. Does it have something to do with the Finnest(?) being an acorn? Acorns grow into trees as far I know. Or is it just a coincidence? So yeah. Going to try listening to the Deadhouse Gates now. Lets see if I can keep up and maybe get more educated on some of the things I did not understand about the first book.
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Feb 12, 2023 20:40
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Those are all good questions to think about, and the answer to 90% of them is "sometimes yes, sometimes no". Think of Gods and High Houses etc as ways people have of understanding and categorising the world, rather than hard and fast rules. Some Warrens have rulers, some Ascendants are worshipped as gods, some Ascendants are associated with Warrens, sometimes having more warrens mean you're stronger than other people, sometimes no, some wizards are priests, some are not. There's more exceptions to the rule than there are rules. It does start to hang together eventually. At no point will the books explain how a High Mage is different to a Priest is different to a normal wizard, but you'll get the vibe.
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Feb 12, 2023 21:21
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The audiobooks are really good. They switch readers part way through but the new person does an excellent job as well.
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Feb 12, 2023 22:04
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Your questions are good, but not any of them should have answers as of the first book. You're not missing anything. People can answer them if you want to have answers, but Erikson is not one for making anything explicit or rigidly defined. Some of your questions get answers, some of them never get clear answers.
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Feb 13, 2023 02:16
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On to The Bonehunters now, I was struggling to grab on to anything early on because of how many perspectives we were switching between but the battle of Y'Ghatan
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Feb 20, 2023 20:25
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Thordain posted:On to The Bonehunters now, I was struggling to grab on to anything early on because of how many perspectives we were switching between but the battle of Y'Ghatan Yeah, poo poo just don't stop.
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Feb 20, 2023 20:32
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Thordain posted:Most of the way through Midnight Tides now and it's turned around for me, as someone said in this thread it's drat good fantasy. As far as i'm concerned, Iron Bars was the best of the Crimson Guard. Mans fought five gods to a virtual standstill, killed one, and then got told after the cavalry arrived, specifically by Silchas Ruin, that "he'd done passably well". zone fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Feb 26, 2023 |
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Feb 26, 2023 13:07
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zone posted:As far as i'm concerned, Iron Bars was the best of the Crimson Guard. Mans fought five gods to a virtual standstill, killed one, and then got told after the cavalry arrived, specifically by Silchas Ruin, that "he'd done passably well".
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Feb 26, 2023 13:29
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anilEhilated posted:Don't read Assail. Just good general advice right there. What a miserably disappointing book.
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Feb 26, 2023 18:51
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I finished Deadhouse Gates at last. Enjoyed it a lot. Going to need quite a break before I plunge into the next one. - Pormqual is the loving worst, literally the Worst Guy I have ever read about in my whole life. - The Claw were the most overhyped villains ever. One of them got taken out by a loving dog!! - Mappo and Icarium need to just kiss already.
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Feb 28, 2023 05:39
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Sailor Viy posted:- The Claw were the most overhyped villains ever. One of them got taken out by a loving dog!! To be fair, Pearl does say that this is an opportunity he's using to clean up the bad claws.
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Feb 28, 2023 11:47
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I mean, that's Erikson riffing on most organisations of equivalent real-world period - They were running off their reputation, and mostly were just as prone to corruption or outright incompetence as anyone else. See: The Roman Legions, Carthage, The Assassins, The Templars, the list goes on...
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Feb 28, 2023 13:37
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So should I read Blood and Bone and Assail? I've read all the other ICE books, I've heard uhh, bad things, about Assail, but not much about Blood and Bone.
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Mar 16, 2023 22:45
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Both are OK but neither are essential. Assail is built up in the main books but the reality of the situation is underwhelming. Some people really rate B&B and it's a fun romp.
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Mar 16, 2023 23:07
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McSpankWich posted:So should I read Blood and Bone and Assail? I've read all the other ICE books, I've heard uhh, bad things, about Assail, but not much about Blood and Bone. If you have read everything else there is no harm in finishing.
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Mar 16, 2023 23:12
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I just finished The Wise Man's Fear and I'm about half way through Before They are Hanged. So maybe I'll finish them off before or after book 3 of First Law. I know this isn't the place for this but what's the deal with Rothfuss?
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Mar 16, 2023 23:49
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Wants to be a famous writer more than he wants to write.
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Mar 17, 2023 00:23
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Zorak of Michigan posted:Wants to be a famous writer more than he wants to write. And sucks at both.
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Mar 18, 2023 17:44
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I hated The Name Of The Wind. Why is it so high up when I google best fantasy books?
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Mar 18, 2023 19:11
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Popularity breeds more popularity. It reached a self sustaining level of hype before it even came out because he had publisher connections. I can’t think of a more overrated author actually. Maybe Rowling.
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Mar 18, 2023 20:24
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They’re kinda young adult books anyways. I read both of them and they were fine but I found the second one pretty annoying by the end. The author is worse than the books.
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Mar 18, 2023 20:36
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I actually really liked The Name of the Wind but in the second one Kvothe became way too much, just totally amazing at everything for no reason. I'm hoping that it ends up being some kind of unreliable narrator thing but probably not. Also, we'll apparently never find out either way so it's whatever I guess.
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Mar 19, 2023 00:26
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I don't really want to read a book about a character being the most perfect yet misunderstood awesome dude in existence. The second book has him as a virgin who manages to super bang and pseudo-enslave the goddess of sex, he becomes a super ninja master, bangs his aunt and somehow nothing happens in that lovely lovely book. gently caress Rothfuss.
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Mar 19, 2023 02:07
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Wait who's his aunt? I don't remember that at all
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Mar 19, 2023 19:04
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It's the chick who trains him in the super sexy awesome female only ninja school that he joins after an apparently awesome pirate story we never see.
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Mar 19, 2023 19:58
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Lol were these books croudwritten by reddit circa 2007 or something?
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Mar 19, 2023 20:39
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