[Modern History] Guns Condoms and Electricity

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Modern History] Guns Condoms and Electricity

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

MikeCrotch posted:

One of my favourite nazi economic facts is that Germany in WWII almost ran out of coal (despite being, you know, Germany) because they hosed the trains up so badly

who is they? nazi mismanagement or the hundreds of thousands of partisans ripping up rail wherever they could?

I know rail sabotage was particularly effective in belarus but there wasn't a lot of coal coming from that direction. polish and czech silesia was the main coal area I think

# ? Feb 3, 2023 17:25

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# ? May 23, 2024 08:38

HerraS: Apr 15, 2012; Looking professional when committing genocide is essential. This is mostly achieved by using a beret.

Olive drab colour ensures the genocider will remain hidden from his prey until it's too late for them to do anything.

They just kept cramming their railways full of trains and causing huge backlogs

I dont know why the gently caress you would think the problem was partisans blowing up railways in the Ruhr lmao

# ? Feb 4, 2023 00:42

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Reminded of how the Germans were aware they'd have to tear up and resize Soviet rails since they were a different gage, but forgot that since a bigger gage means you carry more fuel they also had to build more refueling stations

# ? Feb 4, 2023 01:18

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Carnage on the Autobahn: The crash of Paninternational flight 112

A story that begins with an airline crash and ends with corruption allegations against the Social Democrats

# ? Feb 5, 2023 16:35

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

That one's interesting. No Mayday episode and unlike most other crashes, the Wikipedia article is exceptionally sparse.

# ? Feb 5, 2023 17:43

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

Hey why did the aussies join the vietnam war?

# ? Feb 12, 2023 07:19

big dong wanter: Jan 28, 2010; The future for this country is roads, freeways and highways

To the dangerzone

Tankbuster posted:

Hey why did the aussies join the vietnam war?

because harold holt hadnt gone swimming yet

# ? Feb 12, 2023 07:49

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

# ? Feb 15, 2023 17:45

HootTheOwl: May 13, 2012; Hootin and shootin

Eh. It's a livin'

# ? Feb 15, 2023 17:54

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

HootTheOwl posted:

Eh. It's a livin'

they keep saying this but i've never seen a stork-phone or w/e get a paycheck

# ? Feb 15, 2023 18:23

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

i say swears online posted:

they keep saying this but i've never seen a stork-phone or w/e get a paycheck

they eat dinosaurs in the Flintstones so when they say "it's a living" they mean literally that if they didn't have those jobs they would be killed and eaten

# ? Feb 15, 2023 18:26

Dameius: Apr 3, 2006

A Modest Proposal by Jonathan Swiftsaur.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 19:06

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

vyelkin posted:

they eat dinosaurs in the Flintstones so when they say "it's a living" they mean literally that if they didn't have those jobs they would be killed and eaten

quote:

Things have now come to such a pass that the individuals must appropriate the existing totality of productive forces, not only to achieve self-activity, but also, merely, to safeguard their very existence.

# ? Feb 15, 2023 19:22

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/propagandopolis/status/1626009722024345601
https://twitter.com/propagandopolis/status/1626010017244610561

# ? Feb 16, 2023 19:19

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

quote:

Politburo colleagues winced when in various meetings with the intelligentsia, intended as an overture to 'civil society', Khrushchev lost his cool, denouncing modern art as 'dog-poo poo', calling sculptor Ernst Neizvestny 'a human being' and getting into a shouting match with Evtushenko.

did an irl lol when I came across this in a book and imagined his team sending old Nikita out to gladhand civil society and instead he starts railing about how modern art is dogshit and all his conversation partners suck rear end

# ? Feb 16, 2023 21:00

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/nmeyersohn/status/1626947043972227074

# ? Feb 19, 2023 20:08

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/CurtisSChin/status/1627348828461596672

# ? Feb 20, 2023 00:30

Weka: May 5, 2019; Can't post for 19 hours!

That was bad and all but that was probably one of the least shameful periods of the USA's history.

# ? Feb 20, 2023 02:42

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1627842599791763457

why its almost as if white supremacy is totally compatible with the american origin myth

# ? Feb 21, 2023 05:25

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Hitler the construction worker.

# ? Feb 21, 2023 10:10

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/BeschlossDC/status/1628486696693116929

# ? Feb 23, 2023 07:48

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/raynefq/status/1627710854689878016?t=cRJaN-sdwZhN3uPo6WTmaQ&s=19

# ? Feb 25, 2023 22:43

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I've been reading Niklas Zetterling's "Bismarck", and as background into German naval doctrine and how the battleship fit into that plan, it talks about the Kriegsmarine's earlier attempts at "cruiser warfare" with their smaller/earlier "pocket battleships"

and it covers the exploits of the HMS Rawalpindi, as well as the HMS Jervis Bay, as they tried to protect their merchant convoys like loyal sheepdogs

quote:

At dawn on 23 November, the weather was clear and visibility excellent. Nothing was seen along the horizon until late in the afternoon, when a merchant ship could be discerned at a position half-way between Iceland and the Faeroe islands. It was the British auxiliary cruiser Rawalpindi, an armed merchant ship that was patrolling the area. She had been sent out to assist in the search for the pocket battleship Deutschland, which was expected to head towards her home bases.5

On board the Rawalpindi, the commander, Edward Kennedy, saw the winter sun set on the horizon. The sea was calm and in the north a bank of fog drew nearer. It drifted towards a few distant icebergs that had recently gleamed white in the approaching twilight.

�Bridge!� the lookout in the foremast shouted. �Ship starboard aft!�

Kennedy shifted his attention from north to south, where he discovered the silhouette of a major warship. It was the Scharnhorst, heading straight towards Rawalpindi. After briefly studying it through his binoculars, Kennedy incorrectly assumed that it must be the Deutschland. The captain ordered �Action Stations!� followed swiftly by a command to alter course to port. His ship turned north, while smoke floats were lit. Thereafter a signal officer reported to Home Fleet that an enemy ship, probably the Deutschland, had been sighted. In situations like this, auxiliary cruisers were not expected to engage the enemy but were supposed to assist the heavy units of the Royal Navy to attack the enemy.

While the alarm bells rang in the ship and the Rawalpindi approached the bank of fog far too slowly, Kennedy saw how the German ship signalled to him with a signal light.

�Heave to!� one of the signalmen reported.

The German request was followed by the blast of a gun, and soon a column of water shot up in front of the auxiliary cruiser. Kennedy ignored the request. He continued towards the bank of fog, but he knew he would not make it in time. The gravity of the situation became even more apparent when he was informed that the smoke floats had died down. Kennedy quickly gave orders for a new course, this time towards an iceberg that could provide some cover.

Suddenly another major warship was observed, further east, and for a short while the crew on board the Rawalpindi hoped it was a British cruiser. In fact, it was the Gneisenau and she was soon identified as a German battleship. Kennedy fully realized that his ship was doomed. While Scharnhorst�s signal lamp sent yet another message, Kennedy turned towards his officers on the bridge.

�We�ll fight them both, they�ll sink us � and that will be that. Goodbye.� He shook the Chief�s hand, turned on his heel and cleared the decks for action. Kennedy had been moulded by the traditions of the Royal Navy and surrender was unthinkable to him. The auxiliary cruiser was made ready for battle.

On the Scharnhorst�s foretop, Captain Hoffmann watched incredulously how the Rawalpindi turned to starboard. �What is she doing?� he exclaimed in astonishment. �She can�t intend to attack us?� But as the Rawalpindi completed her turn and approached on a south-southeasterly course, it indeed seemed as if the auxiliary cruiser was attacking. Three times Hoffman requested the Rawalpindi to stop and take her crew into safety, but the auxiliary cruiser showed no inclination to comply with the requests. The range was quickly reduced and soon amounted to little more than 5,000 metres. Finally, Hoffmann decided to sink the wilful ship, but the Rawalpindi opened fire first. Her port 15cm guns fired a salvo against the Gneisenau, which hit but failed to cause any damage. Shortly afterwards, the British ship fired a starboard salvo at the Scharnhorst and again scored, but without causing any damage. The protection of the German ships seemed too strong.

Nevertheless, the Rawalpindi�s fire was not harmless and the Germans soon responded. The first shell from the Scharnhorst hit the boat deck just beneath the bridge. The radio room was destroyed and splinters from the explosion penetrated the floor of the bridge, killing most of the men there. It was the beginning of a quick execution of the poor Rawalpindi, as the Germans could hardly miss at the short range. The fire control was knocked out, thereafter one of the starboard guns. The electrical power to the ammunition lifts was put out of action. Kennedy, who had survived the massacre on the bridge, ordered the seven remaining guns to fire individually and ammunition to be carried to the guns.

The Rawalpindi suffered further hits. Her steering system was destroyed. Fires covered her from fore to aft and her guns were silenced one after the other. Somebody yelled that the captain was dead and the struggle against the German battleships gradually became a struggle to survive. A life boat turned upside down when it was lowered down to the sea. On the deck a number of shells had began rolling away from a knocked-out gun and a few seamen threw them overboard, to prevent them from reaching the flames and exploding. One of the loaders bellowed at his comrades to help him�he was so confused and shocked that he could not understand that the men he shouted at were already dead.

The inevitable end came as a shell from the Scharnhorst hit one of Rawalpindi�s magazines. The ensuing explosion tore the hapless auxiliary cruiser apart and she sank quickly. A few life boats had already been launched and some of the crew had saved themselves. The men who remained on board the Rawalpindi dived into the ice-cold water. Unfortunately the Scharnhorst had come so close that her backwash turned some of the life boats upside down. The Germans stayed to help save British seamen, and this rescue work was in full swing when suddenly an unknown ship was sighted. The initial report from the Rawalpindi had reached Home Fleet and the light cruisers Newcastle and Delhi had been dispatched, together with their heavier sisters Suffolk and Norfolk. The Newcastle was the first to arrive on the scene. The Germans broke off the rescue when they saw the British warship and turned away in the twilight. The British cruiser vainly tried to follow them, but she could not match their speed. She had to turn back and save the survivors of the Rawalpindi. Only 38 men from her complement of 276 survived.6

...

quote:

The first German warship to reach the Atlantic Ocean in 1940 was the pocket battleship Admiral Scheer. She had been at Wilhelmshaven when the war broke out, as she needed a major overhaul. Her antiaircraft artillery shot down a Wellington bomber while she was at the yard, but otherwise she took no part in combat during the first year of the war. When she was at last fully refitted, her crew needed training to attain combat readiness. She was sent to the Baltic for a month of intensive exercise, before finally being declared ready for operations. On 23 October, 1940 she weighed anchor at Gdynia and steered west on the Baltic. After passing Denmark, she sailed north. Undetected she continued towards the Atlantic and a week after departing from Gdynia, she passed through the Denmark Strait between Greenland and Iceland. The first phase, regarded as the most difficult part of the operation by the Germans, had been successfully completed. The Admiral Scheer could begin searching for prey.19

She did not have to wait long. Early on 5 November she discovered the lone Mopan and promptly sank her. A few hours later the lookouts on board the Admiral Scheer caught sight of an even more tempting quarry, the convoy HX84�a British convoy numbering no less than 37 merchant ships. The escort consisted of only a single ship, the armed merchant ship Jervis Bay. Since the sun was about to set, the commander on board Jervis Bay, Captain Edward Fegen, decided to accept battle with the Admiral Scheer, hoping that the convoy could scatter and as many merchant ships as possible disappear in darkness before the German ship got too close. Fegen�s decision doomed his ship. The battle was hopelessly uneven. A sailor in the convoy thought the action resembled a bulldog attacking a bear. The 40 year old, 152mm guns fitted to Jervis Bay did not even have the range needed to successfully engage the German warship. Nevertheless, the British fired incessantly, while laying smoke to protect the ships of the convoy. The battle could only end in one way and after 24 minutes it was over. The Jervis Bay had become a burning wreck. Admiral Scheer sank five merchant ships and another three were damaged, but the rest of the convoy escaped. Later, 65 men from the gallant crew of the Jervis Bay were saved by the Swedish freighter Stureholm.20

I can't help but think, drat, the brass balls on these guys - sailing into certain death to carry out the mission

# ? Feb 26, 2023 14:26

Fish of hemp: Apr 1, 2011; A friendly little mouse!

I watched JFK revisited and was he really as good as Oliver Stone pictures him?

# ? Feb 26, 2023 20:52

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Fish of hemp posted:

I watched JFK revisited and was he really as good as Oliver Stone pictures him?

Not really, he was a committed anti communist and still the sort of person who rises to the top of the shitheap that is American politics.

He was just against a lot of even worse things that the US security state wanted to do, e.g. full scale invasion of Cuba, further escalation in Vietnam, etc.

# ? Feb 26, 2023 22:00

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/ScottGreenfield/status/1629952593345617920

# ? Feb 26, 2023 23:58

HootTheOwl: May 13, 2012; Hootin and shootin

Is it because "it's capitalism"?

# ? Feb 27, 2023 02:18

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

HootTheOwl posted:

Is it because "it's capitalism"?

hatred for the poor and america being the land of violent psychos. unfortunately they dont really address pre-1830s policing by the US and UK which would have strengthened the argument a lot

# ? Feb 27, 2023 02:23

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

I can�t be bothered reading that substack, but the �problem� with the police is that they are the coercive arm of the state; an internally directed expression of the state�s monopoly on organised violence that exists to reinforce the state�s acceptable norms.

The ideological point that capital and private property are more important than workers� lives, or that white lives are worth more than black lives, informs police power but isn�t the genesis of that power, if that makes sense.

# ? Feb 27, 2023 04:10

Eldoop: Jul 29, 2012; Cheeky? Us?
Why, I never!

Cops enforce property relations, and when American policing was coming into being, "property" included a lot of Black people. Racism might not have been the prime mover behind the creation of the police but it's baked in there real deep.

# ? Feb 27, 2023 06:08

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Eldoop posted:

Cops enforce property relations, and when American policing was coming into being, "property" included a lot of Black people. Racism might not have been the prime mover behind the creation of the police but it's baked in there real deep.

Oh yeah for sure. In the post-colonial west, a legacy of repressing �unruly natives� also informs a lot of how current policing works.

# ? Feb 27, 2023 06:38

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

https://twitter.com/DaanHuisinga/status/1630819225504735232
https://twitter.com/DaanHuisinga/status/1630819230873448450
https://twitter.com/DaanHuisinga/status/1630819234883203072

# ? Mar 2, 2023 05:43

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

continuing my reading of "Bismarck", I'm starting to notice that fuel is always a concern for these people. Like, entire chapters and all they ever talk about is Admiral Lutjens deciding where and how he's going to refuel. He's just refueled and he's already thinking about when to refuel again

it shifts to the British perspective and that's almost all they ever talk about, too - the Repulse is going to join the King George V but the concern is that the Repulse is a much older ship - if they ask her to keep pace with the KGV's standard speed it's going to burn her fuel that much faster, but if they slow down for maximum endurance for the Repulse, it's going to make it that much harder to catch up to the Bismarck

and then I think about reading "First Team" earlier in the year, about USN operations in the first six months of WWII in the Pacific, and it's all about fuel there, too, upon reflection. Like, occasionally they'll think about "can I dash into the target island under cover of night to carry out my ops then get out before dawn (and land-based air starts hunting me)?", but a lot of it also comes down to "if I actually do dash to try and relieve Wake Island before they surrender, will I have enough fuel?"

or like, the Battle of Coral Sea, and the IJN sinks the oiler Neosho, and this is often regarded as a huge mistake by the Japanese since they wasted their strike wave on not-a-carrier, but what actually also happens is that the inability to refuel without having to sail all the way back to Noumea shapes a LOT of post-battle USN behavior

you get a sense of why Alfred Thayer Mahan's principle of requiring colliers dotted all throughout the globe was pretty much on-target, with just slight alterations for oil and underway-replenishment

# ? Mar 5, 2023 13:06

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Almost as if professionals study logistics.

# ? Mar 5, 2023 13:09

Fish of hemp: Apr 1, 2011; A friendly little mouse!

What was the most destructive colonial war post WW2?

# ? Mar 6, 2023 20:39

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

Fish of hemp posted:

What was the most destructive colonial war post WW2?

suharto had dutch assistance iirc

it was probably the indochina wars though, including what the US did to laos and cambodia

# ? Mar 6, 2023 20:43

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

Fish of hemp posted:

What was the most destructive colonial war post WW2?

Possibly the Congo Wars though there a few contenders up there.

Also depends on how you're defining destructive, in the Korean War something like 95% of all the buildings were destroyed in the North.

# ? Mar 7, 2023 00:11

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

I was interpreting colonial war as in a colonial power asserting or reasserting control over a colony

# ? Mar 7, 2023 00:22

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Then Indochina is probably the best example, although it ceased to be an explicitly colonial war when the French gave up.

# ? Mar 7, 2023 01:56

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# ? May 23, 2024 08:38

Weka: May 5, 2019; Can't post for 19 hours!

South Korea was totally a colony of the USA.

# ? Mar 7, 2023 02:46

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