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Part of why "critical failure on a 1" rules for D&D suck; that's going to come up way too frequently and if crit failure means you chop your own arm off or fall off a cliff, you're going to either murder the PCs in the first three adventures or they're going to stop using these abilities entirely. A magic system that has unintended side-effects which are sometimes bad needs to be very careful about exactly how often they happen and exactly how bad they can get. A lot of playtesting is called-for.
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Feb 27, 2023 00:06
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Admiralty Flag posted:Something like this could be handled with a hack to Dogs in the Vineyard, which includes a push-your-luck option with making hands vs. escalation. At the start of the job, everyone rolls the appropriate die pool according to their role. Then, when people run out of dice as they proceed through the job, instead of going from words -> fists -> guns (was there a fourth stage? I can't remember...), as a group they go from undetected -> suspicious -> alerted when someone has to escalate the situation to stay in contention by rolling additional dice. The stages of conflict in Dogs are Words, Action, Fighting, and then Guns. Something that a lot of people miss because it's not really spelled out is that you don't have to go in that order - you get new dice by escalating so you can in fact start off punching each other and then move words - if you say something that can escalate the conflict that's currently involves you and your opponent beating the poo poo out of each other.
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Feb 27, 2023 00:29
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Leperflesh posted:Part of why "critical failure on a 1" rules for D&D suck; that's going to come up way too frequently and if crit failure means you chop your own arm off or fall off a cliff, you're going to either murder the PCs in the first three adventures or they're going to stop using these abilities entirely. If you want magic to blow your arm off every 1 in 100 rolls you don't use a percentile system with 00 as the arm blow off roll, you use a 3d6 system where every time you roll doubles it adds 5%-30% to your magical bullshit gauge, the filling of which triggers Magical Bullshit and also adds 5%-30% to your Body Horror gauge. Splicer fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 00:52
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Leperflesh posted:Part of why "critical failure on a 1" rules for D&D suck; that's going to come up way too frequently and if crit failure means you chop your own arm off or fall off a cliff, you're going to either murder the PCs in the first three adventures or they're going to stop using these abilities entirely. In any DND I've played a 1 was just an automatic miss, not a critical failure, probably because that sucks. It might work if it's explicitly a fail-forward mechanic.
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Feb 27, 2023 00:53
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Splicer posted:I see the problem as the opposite - 1 in 20 is no good because it's not common enough. When "and a bad thing can happen!" is the part of the flavour and/or mechanical balance of something you want them to be occurring enough that people will actually factor them into the decision making process. If magic works perfectly fine except for the 1 time in 20 your arm blows off then that doesn't feel like magic is dangerous and unpredictable, it makes magic feel like it's something safe and reliable with the occasional bout of being absolute bullshit because what were the odds of rolling a 1 right then??? To me the answer is that "your character dies" shouldn't be left up to the dice, at least not solely, nor should it be a direct consequence of using your character's abilities. But this is in the context of a push-your-luck conversation and my only intention with this comment is to point out how the use (I would argue over-use) of a flat d20 to determine outcomes in D&D and many of its clones is a mechanical impediment to some possible implementations. I greatly prefer mechanics with bell curve probability shapes to the randomizer because that provides a lot more flexibility. PerniciousKnid posted:In any DND I've played a 1 was just an automatic miss, not a critical failure, probably because that sucks. It might work if it's explicitly a fail-forward mechanic. Yeah critical miss systems for D&D are house rules. Used to be pretty common, but I have seen one or two posters arguing in its favor even within the last year, usually with the justification that "it's fun" so I figured it was still a relevant thing to mention.
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Feb 27, 2023 01:02
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I prefer flat d20 (or percentiles) because it's easier to calculate probabilities. Figuring out the value of a modifier in PbtA is a pain, albeit mitigated by the fact that you rarely shop for modifiers in PbtA the way you constantly do in a DnD blacksmith's shop.
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Feb 27, 2023 01:22
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PerniciousKnid posted:I prefer flat d20 (or percentiles) because it's easier to calculate probabilities. Figuring out the value of a modifier in PbtA is a pain, albeit mitigated by the fact that you rarely shop for modifiers in PbtA the way you constantly do in a DnD blacksmith's shop. Yes but you only have calculate the odds the one time because it’s the same for the entire system. Also it’s only harder to calculate in that it’s not literally a math problem you would give to a small child, like “what are the odds of rolling a one on a six sided die” is.
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Feb 27, 2023 01:52
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Leperflesh posted:To me the answer is that "your character dies" shouldn't be left up to the dice, at least not solely, nor should it be a direct consequence of using your character's abilities. But this is in the context of a push-your-luck conversation and my only intention with this comment is to point out how the use (I would argue over-use) of a flat d20 to determine outcomes in D&D and many of its clones is a mechanical impediment to some possible implementations. I greatly prefer mechanics with bell curve probability shapes to the randomizer because that provides a lot more flexibility.
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Feb 27, 2023 02:05
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Splicer posted:I too like WFRP3E It walked so Star Wars could fly.
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Feb 27, 2023 04:22
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:DQ (any edition) was designed to flat-out murder any spellcaster. Stormbringer had something like a 20% chance of getting your brain eaten when you went up a level
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Feb 27, 2023 06:03
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A lot makes sense when you realise a lot of dice based RPGs is just gambling with the health of imaginary dudes instead of cash.
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Feb 27, 2023 06:53
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MonsieurChoc posted:It walked so Star Wars could fly. 
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Feb 27, 2023 13:55
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sebmojo posted:Stormbringer had something like a 20% chance of getting your brain eaten when you went up a level Lol I honestly think that's really funny, but I also think that it's cool when systems have harsh trade offs for gaining power (eg Polaris levels make you more jaded which is VERY bad)
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Feb 27, 2023 15:43
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sebmojo posted:Stormbringer had something like a 20% chance of getting your brain eaten when you went up a level ...stormbringer had levels?!
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Feb 27, 2023 16:19
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For anyone who makes PbtA or FitD games or play materials or just likes little digital tools: I just released an update to timeToPlay, my TTRPG clock font pack—3 new styles (bringing the total to 10) and a new HTML font guide.
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Feb 27, 2023 17:44
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Nice!.
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Feb 27, 2023 17:55
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Tulip posted:Lol I honestly think that's really funny, but I also think that it's cool when systems have harsh trade offs for gaining power (eg Polaris levels make you more jaded which is VERY bad)
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Feb 27, 2023 18:18
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Cross-postPlutonis posted:Found out the original novelization of Lodoss (when it was just a D&D campaign) got translated.
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Feb 27, 2023 18:39
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If I wanted to read up on how RPGs have handled Naga / Snake People is the OWOD Nagah any good? Anything made this decade? Did the Yuan-ti ever get a book in D&D? Any other interpretations of the archetype?
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Feb 27, 2023 21:35
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anything adjacent to owod and its thoughts on the various peoples of the world is very much not good, i can say that without even looking at how it treats snakes. especially because it's going to be werewolf-adjacent and therefore extremely race sciency
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Feb 27, 2023 21:55
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Nystral posted:If I wanted to read up on how RPGs have handled Naga / Snake People is the OWOD Nagah any good? Anything made this decade? Did the Yuan-ti ever get a book in D&D? Any other interpretations of the archetype? Tormenta (Brazilian RPG) had a pretty funny story with those. There were two kinds of snake people, Naga and Nagah, the former for the more monstrous kind of yuan-ti and stuff who follow the snake god of treachery and the latter created by the Goddess of Nature and are the more human-like with snake tails who follow the good-natured Nature Goddess. Then there was a later retcon that made that the latter were created by the Snake God and were hiding on plain sight so they could run their master schemes (but also kept it clear that PCs could be good members of the race). Apparently it wasn't really that well received but they still kept it even on the most recent editions.
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Feb 27, 2023 22:36
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Nystral posted:If I wanted to read up on how RPGs have handled Naga / Snake People is the OWOD Nagah any good? Anything made this decade? Did the Yuan-ti ever get a book in D&D? Any other interpretations of the archetype? The big book on yuan-ti in D&D is Serpent Kingdoms for the Forgotten Realms and it is excellent if you love setting lore. Not from this decade though, it was about 2005 I think?
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Feb 27, 2023 23:16
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Mister Olympus posted:anything adjacent to owod and its thoughts on the various peoples of the world is very much not good, i can say that without even looking at how it treats snakes. This was an experience to read because O-Werewolf is frankly tame in the pantheon of creepy WOD racism.
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Feb 27, 2023 23:40
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Tulip posted:This was an experience to read because O-Werewolf is frankly tame in the pantheon of creepy WOD racism. Most Racist OWoD is a real Aliens vs Predator situation.
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Feb 28, 2023 01:06
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Kindred of the East was the worst, in my stupid goonish opinion. It was right after that that I stopped buying any WoD stuff.
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Feb 28, 2023 01:31
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World of Darkness is so incredibly hit and miss for me. I mean, I love the games like Vampire: Night Road and Bloodlines, and the actual tabletop has some cool stuff in it as well, but holy poo poo does it get bad at some points. Its like watching classic comedy movies, where you'll have some of the best gags ever and then suddenly you'll hit a metaphorical brick wall when they start going into the most racist or transphobic bits possible.
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Feb 28, 2023 02:41
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UnCO3 posted:For anyone who makes PbtA or FitD games or play materials or just likes little digital tools: got this to use at work for project completion markers!
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Feb 28, 2023 02:46
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Kindred of the East was the worst, in my stupid goonish opinion. It was right after that that I stopped buying any WoD stuff. In terms of sheer racism its high. In terms of net total problematicity it is downright quaint compared to Beast. Whirling posted:World of Darkness is so incredibly hit and miss for me. I mean, I love the games like Vampire: Night Road and Bloodlines, and the actual tabletop has some cool stuff in it as well, but holy poo poo does it get bad at some points. Its like watching classic comedy movies, where you'll have some of the best gags ever and then suddenly you'll hit a metaphorical brick wall when they start going into the most racist or transphobic bits possible. The entire WOD thread is like, 75% griping about how much work it is to sift through the various -isms and bad editing and broken (not simply in terms of balance but in terms of like, "will not actually resolve in a coherent fashion) mechanics to get to the game that we all believe exists underneath all of that.
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Feb 28, 2023 03:24
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LaSquida posted:...stormbringer had levels?! Sort of, and only for sorcerors. I did that math when I ran a one shot (with a body count of 2-3 characters per player) and I remember it being a bit fudgy to call them levels, but it's basically a measured increase in power involving a startlingly high chance of instant death.
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Feb 28, 2023 03:37
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Tulip posted:In terms of sheer racism its high. In terms of net total problematicity it is downright quaint compared to Beast. I was done with anything WoD-related long before Beast raised its vile head.
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Feb 28, 2023 03:44
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The time WoD decided to make the Romani people a magical splatbook like they're a classic Halloween monster is maybe(?) the most slap-in-your-face racism bit, but Kindred of the East is up there, too. Though any instance where the pre-Chronicles of Darkness books decided to tie a monster to non-white or non-American ethnic or racial group it gets bad real fast.
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Feb 28, 2023 05:42
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I know this is less gross than anything involving real-world prejudice, just by default, but I can't think of White Wolf Problems Chat and not think of the Exalted 1E bestiality rules, which the Player's Guide expanded from just applying to the pseudo-werewolf guys to applying to all the superhuman splats in the game
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Feb 28, 2023 07:06
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Antivehicular posted:I know this is less gross than anything involving real-world prejudice, just by default, but I can't think of White Wolf Problems Chat and not think of the Exalted 1E bestiality rules, which the Player's Guide expanded from just applying to the pseudo-werewolf guys to applying to all the superhuman splats in the game Wasn't that a thing inherited from Werewolf the Apocalypse? I recall there was some incredibly bizarre setting detail where werewolves can't reproduce with other werewolves, so they have to gently caress normal humans or wolves to make more of themselves. I think the thing that Exalted 1e pushed a lot that resulted in a good portions of the problems further on down the line was the idea that "barbarism" was a political choice that people made in the setting, rather than just a label thrown about by smug nobles against their neighbors and rivals. 1e envisioned that a lot of groups, like the Icewalkers or the North or various Lunar-run tribes, woke up in the morning and said to themselves, "You know what, I hate farming and having indoor plumbing and codified laws! I'm not doing any of that poo poo," and I have no idea where this idea could have originated from to begin with. Whirling fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 10:02
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Antivehicular posted:I know this is less gross than anything involving real-world prejudice, just by default, but I can't think of White Wolf Problems Chat and not think of the Exalted 1E bestiality rules, which the Player's Guide expanded from just applying to the pseudo-werewolf guys to applying to all the superhuman splats in the game bestiality rules? what?!
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Feb 28, 2023 10:10
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Arivia posted:bestiality rules? what?! Whatever you do, don't give this sentence on card to Lionel Hutz.
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Feb 28, 2023 10:12
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Magnetic North posted:Whatever you do, don't give this sentence on card to Lionel Hutz.
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Feb 28, 2023 10:41
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Arivia posted:bestiality rules? what?! Okay, so: in Exalted 1E, the Lunar Exalted (basically pseudo-werewolves/changing breeds, but more Dark Epic Anime Fantasy) were a faction who had gone mostly "barbaric" or feral, and a great many of them had created tribes of hybrid beastmen to serve them. (As Whirling mentioned, there's also a lot of baggage here with "barbarian" being treated as an actual political affiliation in the setting, but we'll set that aside.) When they released the splatbook to play Lunars as PCs, it was clarified that Lunars conceived beastmen via either having sex with humans in their animal forms or by having sex with animals in their human forms. (Also as Whirling mentioned, this is probably based in the weird Werewolf "werewolves can't have fertile non-mutated children with other werewolves" fluff, but iirc in Werewolf you could at least have sex with a human in Homid form, whereas Lunars explicitly have to be in the opposite shape to conceive a hybrid.) There were rules for how PCs could do this! I'm not sure why! Later, the Exalted 1E Player's Guide came out and gave explicit rules for playing half-mortal/half-superhuman characters, which included beastmen. For reasons even less clear than any of the above, this included a new ruling that Exalted of any splat could now conceive beastmen with animals -- and since none of the others have the ability to shapeshift, it explicitly had to be "have sex with an animal," not the Leda-and-the-swan stuff Lunars could get away with. Specifically, any Exalted of Essence 4 (Essence being the general "power level" stat, and 4 being one step above what you could take at chargen, so extremely feasible for PCs, and obviously very common among plot-bearing NPCs) or greater could conceive a beastman child if they had sex with an animal. It wasn't even clear if they had to intend this, or if it could just... you know, happen, if any of the major NPCs in the setting found themselves loving a goat for some reason. "Bonus" White Wolf moment: the Player's Guide also established that the term for a child with one mortal parent and one Exalted parent was "half-caste," which is A Choice, and definitely up there with the werewolf/werewolf mutant kids from Werewolf being called "Metis." White Wolf!!
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Feb 28, 2023 10:43
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Whirling posted:1e envisioned that a lot of groups, like the Icewalkers or the North or various Lunar-run tribes, woke up in the morning and said to themselves, "You know what, I hate farming and having indoor plumbing and codified laws! I'm not doing any of that poo poo," and I have no idea where this idea could have originated from to begin with. I mean, there are actual living people in the world right now who have made this choice, and continue to make it generation after generation. Creation magnifies it by having a faction of superhumans going around telling people, "You know how huge portions of this world are pretty awful? Yeah, there's a reason for that, and indoor plumbing is a part of it." And because it's Exalted, they kind of have a point, and they definitely have the charisma and firepower to make people go along with it.
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Feb 28, 2023 10:59
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Antivehicular posted:"Bonus" White Wolf moment: the Player's Guide also established that the term for a child with one mortal parent and one Exalted parent was "half-caste," which is A Choice, and definitely up there with the werewolf/werewolf mutant kids from Werewolf being called "Metis." Wait, poo poo what does "metis" mean? *seeks knowledge*  shiiiiit
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Feb 28, 2023 11:09
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Antivehicular posted:White Wolf!! How the hell did Exalted ever get a second edition?
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