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Cygni posted:Pretty funny that the 7800x3d’s clocks have been artificially limited specifically so the 7950x3d stays at the top of charts, lol. The x3d ccd on the 7950x3d is consistent with the reported 4.2 base and 5.0 max boost on AMD’s website for the 7800x3d.
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Feb 27, 2023 19:55
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hobbesmaster posted:The x3d ccd on the 7950x3d is consistent with the reported 4.2 base and 5.0 max boost on AMD’s website for the 7800x3d. The cache cores in some reviews are boosting to 5.2+, depending on the workload. TPU reported only getting down to 5ghz once they had loaded 25+ threads. https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d/27.html e: ive been looking around for someone to show clocks in actual gaming, but havent found it yet. A lot of clocks in Cinebench or other synthetic loads but no gaming. Cmon man. Cygni fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 20:47
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If it’s boosting above 5.2 I’m surprised it’s not running further away from the 5800x3d. Though I guess it kinda is in factorio where I’d expect to see the biggest impact.
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Feb 27, 2023 20:57
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Has any of the reviews mentioned PBO et al?
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Feb 27, 2023 21:38
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is there any testing yet on sensitivity of 7x3d to memory speed and timings? i remember one of the interesting things about 5800x3d was that the memory basically didn’t matter. it’s probably going to be the case again and that may be a factor for some people. not that i expect the price delta between ddr5 6000 and 5200 to be an unreasonable hurdle to afford by late april
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Feb 27, 2023 22:55
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lol that amd's solution to the scheduling problem is to just disable all the non-v-cache cores during games (with 'games' determined by xbox game bar) that's so goofythis allusion meant posted:is there any testing yet on sensitivity of 7x3d to memory speed and timings? i remember one of the interesting things about 5800x3d was that the memory basically didn’t matter. it’s probably going to be the case again and that may be a factor for some people. not that i expect the price delta between ddr5 6000 and 5200 to be an unreasonable hurdle to afford by late april https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-review?page=5 digital foundry looked at that a little bit, doesn't seem to be a huge effect but varies from game to game - some games there's basically no effect but some games do still benefit a little from faster ram, but less than with other zen 4 cpus lih fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 23:26
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I read something about AMD 7000 AM5 bundle sales starting today, but it looks like the stuff online is just an instant price off on a CPU and bundled Jedi Survivor game?
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Feb 28, 2023 00:00
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Shame they went with vcache on only one CCD leading to this goofy stuff. I was kinda hoping for the 3d cache bump for games and also having the big pile of threads for stuff like VMs and some other work stuff I do but this stuff is a pretty hacky workaround.
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Feb 28, 2023 01:49
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they'll release a version with two 3D CCDs in another 5 months to get people to triple dip on zen4
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Feb 28, 2023 01:51
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repiv posted:they'll release a version with two 3D CCDs in another 5 months to get people to triple dip on zen4
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Feb 28, 2023 01:56
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Cygni posted:Pretty funny that the 7800x3d’s clocks have been artificially limited specifically so the 7950x3d stays at the top of charts, lol. So, like every other CPU release?
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Feb 28, 2023 01:56
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repiv posted:they'll release a version with two 3D CCDs in another 5 months to get people to triple dip on zen4 I don't think they want to do that just because it'll eat into the low end Epyc chips for people whose workflow cheerfully fits inside the X3D cache and don't need the 8 channels of memory and 500% price bump.
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Feb 28, 2023 02:20
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:So, like every other CPU release? I feel like AMD has primarily limited their parts and established segmentation with core numbers the last few generations, especially with Zen4 mostly boosting as high as it can and bouncing off the temp limiter most of the time. But of course... those core limitations were likely artificial for the 6/4 core parts themselves, so.
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Feb 28, 2023 02:32
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I dunno if you guys watch the server space in any sort, but AMD recently had a presentation at ISSCC 2023, where they went into detail about stacking compute and DRAM under the heatspreader. I would not be surprised if it turned out that whatever experiments they are doing on that side translated into the changes in approach that we're seeing on the desktop side. https://www.servethehome.com/amd-talks-stacking-compute-and-dram-at-isscc-2023/ Notably on their MI300 computer APUs, they have changed things around to stack the CPU die on top of the Vcache, instead of how they're doing it now.
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Feb 28, 2023 02:38
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Cygni posted:I feel like AMD has primarily limited their parts and established segmentation with core numbers the last few generations, especially with Zen4 mostly boosting as high as it can and bouncing off the temp limiter most of the time. But of course... those core limitations were likely artificial for the 6/4 core parts themselves, so. There are also clock speed limitations going on in the regular parts too. The 5950X boosts up to 4.9 GHz while the 5600X boosts to 4.6 GHz. You have to manually overclock the 5600X if you want it to match the 5950X (and not all 5600Xs may be capable of this). I believe Zen 4 works the same way--there are still hard frequency caps in place there. The difference here is that multiplier overclocking is disabled. After enabling PBO and using the curve optimizer, you can only increase the Fmax, and only by +200 apparently, and only on the non-vcache ccd. So you won't be able to manually overclock the 7800X3D to match the 7950X like you can with other AMD parts, but the difference is only 250 MHz it seems (and who manually overclocks these days anyway?) edit: The idea that Zen 4 (or 3) will always boost aggressively to the thermal limits is not entirely true. Zen 3 and 4 seem to work very much the same. There are power limits, temperature limits, and clock limits, and the chips will boost until one of those three is hit. It just so happens that with Zen 4, the power and clock limits are high enough that the temperature limit is often hit first. But clock limits still exist, and they're tiered according to product class. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 02:50
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the 7950X3D also has a lower temperature limit than the other Zen 4 chips due to the v-cache being more temperature sensitive
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Feb 28, 2023 03:04
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Which means PBO alone probably won't do much, and the curve optimizer will be even more important. Negative CO offsets undervolt the CPU so you can hit higher clocks within the same power or thermal envelope. But this won't really apply to most games since they tend to be light enough that they'll very rarely run into the power or temperature limits. The clock limit is the predominant limiting factor in games instead, except for the 65W parts, which can be power limited in some games.
Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 03:12
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:There are also clock speed limitations going on in the regular parts too. The 5950X boosts up to 4.9 GHz while the 5600X boosts to 4.6 GHz. You have to manually overclock the 5600X if you want it to match the 5950X (and not all 5600Xs may be capable of this). I believe Zen 4 works the same way--there are still hard frequency caps in place there. The difference here is that multiplier overclocking is disabled. After enabling PBO and using the curve optimizer, you can only increase the Fmax, and only by +200 apparently, and only on the non-vcache ccd. So you won't be able to manually overclock the 7800X3D to match the 7950X like you can with other AMD parts, but the difference is only 250 MHz it seems (and who manually overclocks these days anyway?) Right, but the locking of manual OC is sort of the point. Even if the silicon is capable, you won't be able to push a 7800X3D to the clocks of the vcached die of the 7950X3D unless you use some of the more invasive techniques out there. According to GN and others, that appears to be a purposeful move to protect product segmentation and make sure the 7950X3D stays at the top of the charts no matter what. This is different than past parts (see: Ryzen 1700). Everybody does artificial segmentation in this industry I get it, but considering the marketing shlock about "we dont lock clocks" AMD had for many years, and the extra steps they are already having to go through to keep the frankly kinda bizarre 7950X3D at the top of the charts over the regular 7950X, that they also have to slightly hobble the 7800X3D is, like I said, pretty funny.
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Feb 28, 2023 03:45
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Holy poo poo, watched the GN video. Why would you ever buy a non-7800X3D for games? You need like 3 extra drivers/programs and also need the balanced profile. There is opportunity on every corner to assign processes the wrong core. I just cant imagine to get it running without manually using Process Lasso or similar (for games).
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Feb 28, 2023 10:48
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Some people also need all the cores. If you've got cash, and all you do is either game or do "light HEDT" workloads then 7950x3d sounds amazing. But as Steve mentioned it's better to wait until April to decide. Even if one CCD part is bad then 16core will have better software support.
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Feb 28, 2023 11:00
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I dunno if you guys watch the server space in any sort, but AMD recently had a presentation at ISSCC 2023, where they went into detail about stacking compute and DRAM under the heatspreader. I would not be surprised if it turned out that whatever experiments they are doing on that side translated into the changes in approach that we're seeing on the desktop side. Pablo Bluth fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 11:20
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AutismVaccine posted:Holy poo poo, watched the GN video. Why would you ever buy a non-7800X3D for games? the short answer is that you have more money than sense and can't wait until April
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Feb 28, 2023 12:13
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AutismVaccine posted:Holy poo poo, watched the GN video. Why would you ever buy a non-7800X3D for games? You need like 3 extra drivers/programs and also need the balanced profile. There is opportunity on every corner to assign processes the wrong core. I just cant imagine to get it running without manually using Process Lasso or similar (for games). You don't, you wait for the 7800x3d. The 7950x3d is for those who need the threads, not gamers. The catch is there's some time to wait for the 7800x3d, timed to make impatient gamers buy the wrong part for loads of money. Same as the gpu market strategy but worse, because there really won't be a benefit to gamers - it parks half the cores when gaming ffs! Edit: what the guy above me said
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Feb 28, 2023 12:28
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coreprio software can also trigger garbage drm, so that's a fun potential future headache. i remember when i couldn't play monster hunter world: iceborne for a week because the game wouldn't even give you an error message
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Feb 28, 2023 12:30
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AutismVaccine posted:Holy poo poo, watched the GN video. Why would you ever buy a non-7800X3D for games? You need like 3 extra drivers/programs and also need the balanced profile. There is opportunity on every corner to assign processes the wrong core. I just cant imagine to get it running without manually using Process Lasso or similar (for games). The xbox game bar program lets you designate applications as games with a hotkey and a click. I think l1techs showed how to do it. This solves getting things onto the vcache cores automatically, but it doesn't solve other odd stuff the scheduler can and will do. I do agree that it's an odd implementation that seems annoying and unreliable. I can't tell if someone pitched "best of both worlds" or what their decision making process was for not having vcache on both ccds. Khorne fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 14:57
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7950x3d pops up on AMD store, I put it in cart, go to purchase, CC company says, "Hey this looks weird", I tell them it's legit, by the time I go back to it it's out of stock. RIP.
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Feb 28, 2023 15:07
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CC company being like "The 7800x3D is out in like 5 weeks, it's weird you'd buy this now".
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Feb 28, 2023 15:09
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Lockback posted:CC company being like "The 7800x3D is out in like 5 weeks, it's weird you'd buy this now". CC company doesn't appreciate my addiction to both Wabbajack lists and Stellaris. I am both a weird niche user and an idiot with too much money, but only the former applies in this case I think. Got an order in on Newegg. Thanks to whichever Goon recommended the Falcodrin community on Discord - that's how I grabbed it.
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Feb 28, 2023 15:14
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Gyrotica posted:CC company doesn't appreciate my addiction to both Wabbajack lists and Stellaris. I am both a weird niche user and an idiot with too much money, but only the former applies in this case I think. Sweet! Are these things shipping immediately or still a ways out?
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Feb 28, 2023 15:17
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Hughmoris posted:Sweet! Are these things shipping immediately or still a ways out? Packaging now, expected March 2nd, so....now, it appears!
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Feb 28, 2023 15:18
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amd has kindly offered you a chance to pay them $300 for another compute chiplet and people are all “who is this for” and “just wait a month lol” like a bunch of ingrates
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Feb 28, 2023 16:03
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XBox Game Bar thinks Discord is a game and I've got that running 24/7 so I guess I'd just never have that second chiplet lol
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Feb 28, 2023 16:42
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Newegg is usually the best place to buy brand new pc hardware. They tend to get enough inventory to let you buy the shiny new poo poo in the first hour of release, even stuff that eventually sells out and becomes unavailable for a couple months. I got a 4090 that way, 30 minutes after launch. The 7950X3D is sold out everywhere now it seems like, but the 7900X3D is still in stock at Newegg (i don't think anyone should buy that one) edit: and for reference, the launch time is always at 9am eastern, 6am pacific. in case anyone else plans on f5ing newegg for the 7800x3d when that launches. though man, the recent non-3d zen 5 discounts have been making the x3d parts even harder to justify. newegg sold a bundle with a 7700X, an x670e pg lightning, and 32gb ddr5-6000 for $500. an equivalent setup with the 7800x3d will be $830. that's a hefty upcharge. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 17:15
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I see no 7900x3d reviews so far. As the base clocks are higher and it has the same TDP I wonder if those 6 cores with 3d cache might end up surprisingly faster than 8 core of 7950x3d.
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Feb 28, 2023 17:59
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alex314 posted:I see no 7900x3d reviews so far. As the base clocks are higher and it has the same TDP I wonder if those 6 cores with 3d cache might end up surprisingly faster than 8 core of 7950x3d. This one's in Japanese, but the charts should be easy enough to figure out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0r7BuxrzN0 I haven't watched it, so I'm not sure if they do any testing with a disabled CCD.
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Feb 28, 2023 18:14
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alex314 posted:I see no 7900x3d reviews so far. As the base clocks are higher and it has the same TDP I wonder if those 6 cores with 3d cache might end up surprisingly faster than 8 core of 7950x3d. A reviewer from Japan somehow got their hands on one, and the clock speeds they showed while gaming never exceeded 5ghz, so I doubt it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0r7BuxrzN0
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Feb 28, 2023 18:15
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Whats up with complete absence of 7900x3D reviews?
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Feb 28, 2023 18:16
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Fwiw techpowerup included in their review all the slides from the previously NDAed AMD materials detailing how the scheduler stuff works: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d/5.html Also there's a Skatterbencher article up with info about overclocking. https://skatterbencher.com/2023/02/27/skatterbencher-56-amd-ryzen-9-7950x3d-overclocked-to-5900-mhz/
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Feb 28, 2023 18:19
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Scam Likely posted:Whats up with complete absence of 7900x3D reviews? The reviews will show up soon and all the usual outlets should have reviews out by ~10 days from now at most.
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Feb 28, 2023 18:20
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Tell me about DDR5 memory overclocking. When there's one module with Hynix M dies that's clocked fairly high and tight, if I were to take a DDR5-4800 stick with the same Hynix M dies, I could more or less transfer the timings over? Or does the PMIC throw a curve ball here? This is mostly about making some Kingston DDR5-4800 ECC sticks faster.
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Feb 28, 2023 20:04
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