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Ulio posted:Or we can go do what western devs/publishers are doing which is even worst than nonstop sequels it's unneeded remaster or remakes. Like why did Tlou1 need a remake? Now there is a rumor Horizon Zero Dawn is getting a remake which is a orignal ps4 game lol. Before this gen is over we might get a God Of War Ragnarok remake. Looking forward to the HZD remake getting released against GTA6
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Feb 26, 2023 23:08
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Ataxerxes posted:Any tips for the 2-phase boss of the first map? Deflecting his normal blows is doable, but the critical ones seem to be strangely off so I wiff the deflects very often. Which weapon and spells would be good? Strangely I had the opposite problem, I felt like I was having to deflect way early to catch his regular swings, but I don't think I ever failed to break his arm every time he tried the red attack  His arms being big spikey blobs probably messed with my visual hitbox assumptions. Ulio posted:Amen. Honestly I just get sad when people want talented devs to make the same poo poo over and over again. The only reason we even got this soulslike genre is because Fromsoft was asked to do something new and they just went crazy because they had 0 expectations. Wat. FromSoft has been iterating on the same gameplay mechanic ideas for decades. Look up any of the King's Field games or stuff like Eternal Ring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt916NXbvoE and you can clearly see the DNA of what would become Demons/Dark Souls. The only thing that changed is consoles got powerful enough to support a 3rd person camera. Also goddamn do they love poison swamps  Hel posted:What? The soulslike genre is the result of From Software being allowed to iterate on their action-dungeoncrawler games for ~10 games before one of them actually became an international hit. So it's not really surprising that some people want other series to have the same chance. 
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Feb 27, 2023 00:05
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unfortunately, the era where AAA developers can release modest budget games to rapidly iterate on a particular design is long behind us. a company like team ninja has an expectation that every game will sell well, and they haven't really had a strong tentpole franchise whose IP they own in a while: dead or alive is mostly treading water these days, and nioh 2, while eventually selling pretty well, wasn't hitting sales records for its first few years of release wo long is team ninja's attempt to follow in fromsoft's development model post-dark souls, where you have a broadly accessible gameplay formula that you keep consistent between titles, which then forms a financial bedrock you can build other titles off of. putting out DS2/3 and elden ring has given fromsoft enormous financial freedom to be able to experiment with weirder ideas like bloodborne and sekiro without the expectation of them being box office smashes, and team ninja wants to have that same kind of leeway to be able to develop their own in-house titles. wo long is kind of purpose built in a way to accomplish that: it uses a formula that the entire world is familiar with now (third person action RPG combat with limited healing), adds a couple of team ninja-specific twists (diablo loot and an increased number of systems for the player to interact with), and sets it in what is probably the most stable (and most profitable, if you're angling to take a bite out of the chinese console market) setting you could think of
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Feb 27, 2023 01:07
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Followed Xeno a while ago for Nioh 2 build videos, glad to see they're making more videos for Wo Long https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uwuslpX2wE&t=27s
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Feb 27, 2023 01:19
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Vermain posted:unfortunately, the era where AAA developers can release modest budget games to rapidly iterate on a particular design is long behind us. a company like team ninja has an expectation that every game will sell well, and they haven't really had a strong tentpole franchise whose IP they own in a while: dead or alive is mostly treading water these days, and nioh 2, while eventually selling pretty well, wasn't hitting sales records for its first few years of release They're also doing the smart move of launching on everything but the Switch at the same time, unlike Nioh, where you had to wait a year+ for the PC version. That plus the game pass money probably assures some amount of success for it, but we'll see. I just hope the final PC version is better than the demo 
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Feb 27, 2023 13:20
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Takes No Damage posted:Strangely I had the opposite problem, I felt like I was having to deflect way early to catch his regular swings, but I don't think I ever failed to break his arm every time he tried the red attack I am saying they are generally different enough, if by iteration you mean KF to DeS that I am fine since that's a big enough evolution. I agree they should iterate to perfect a formula but also be able to test and do what they want with games like Bloodborne, Sekiro, Deracine, Wolong, Stranger of Paradise. And I am not sure what you mean consoles got strong enough to handle 3rd person games when FRomsoft themselves were releasing Armored Core on the same consoles let alone a million of other Japanese devs that only made third person games. Hakkesshu posted:They're also doing the smart move of launching on everything but the Switch at the same time, unlike Nioh, where you had to wait a year+ for the PC version. That plus the game pass money probably assures some amount of success for it, but we'll see. Definitely prefer it launching at everything at once but I am pretty sure Nioh had some deal with Playstation so they got paid for the exclusivity there and Playstation did most of the marketing I saw for Nioh 1/2. So KT is definitely smart there are always getting some kind of deal with a big publisher when they can. Wild Hearts with EA is another example. I am sure they didn't have to do any of the marketing since it was all on EA channels. They always find a way to reduce their breakeven. Rise of The Ronin looks like they got a deal with Sony maybe it's timed exclusive of some sort. Ulio fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 15:03
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Not sure why everyone is so down on this game's chances. Not every game needs to be an investor's wet dream to be successful. They're doing well enough that this relative formula is on it's fourth game, with the third one being entrusted to fuckin' Final Fantasy, so clearly it's doing well enough for them. And all of them have been good! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills
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Feb 27, 2023 15:49
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I want stranger of paradise on steam already
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Feb 27, 2023 16:19
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Phantasium posted:Not sure why everyone is so down on this game's chances. Not every game needs to be an investor's wet dream to be successful. I don't think people meant it will do badly but maybe Nioh 3 would do better. Like I said I think it being on gamepass, the gameplay is already banger and it's coming in a empty month should be good. If reviews/word of mouth is like Nioh it should do really well. As for the quality of their games, I thought SoP was great so you don't have to convince me. Until the DLC story format/grinding that game is very very good soulsike and the job system is truly amazing.
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Feb 27, 2023 16:26
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I enjoyed this demo a lot but I don't think it will have the same effect the souls games have with beating one making the others more accessible because (it's a little disheartening to see so many people here LIKED it) nioh's insistence on mechanical complexity did not add anything to it imo. I feel the same way about the Red Queen revs in DMC 4/5. It's finger busy work. I love all the fluid stance switch combos but miss me with the rhythm game button after every combo. If doing something at the end of every action is the optimal thing to do, and you always want to do it, then the rhythm game button doesn't add anything to the mechanics, it just takes away from your kit until you get the muscle memory down.
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Feb 27, 2023 19:24
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Stance system in Nioh is a lot more free flowing than lets say perfect inputs in DMC. You can just improvise and still be really good at the game. You pick the moves you like and just stance dance the way you see fit.
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Feb 27, 2023 19:36
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OxMan posted:If doing something at the end of every action is the optimal thing to do, and you always want to do it, then the rhythm game button doesn't add anything to the mechanics, it just takes away from your kit until you get the muscle memory down. this is ultimately a matter of aesthetic preferences when it comes to gameplay, because i, and many others, enjoy the challenge of additional mechanical execution for small optimizations that are difficult to pull off consistently in the heat of the moment. it's not like ki burst was something you could leisurely do at your own pace: you had a fixed period of time to do it in and had to balance the execution of pressing it consistently at the right time with trying to scramble around and not get owned, which is hard to do and rewarding to master
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Feb 27, 2023 19:38
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I’m interested in this but am waiting to pick it up on Gamepass this Friday. What are the key differences between it and other Nioh games? No stamina I guess, but how does parrying factor in from a practical standpoint? What makes the parrying mechanic for this game distinct? Is there a posture meter like in Sekiro? I find that these games—the Team Ninja ones—seem impenetrable until you get some hands on time, but I’m still trying to understand what the flow is like and where the parry fits into the flow, if that makes sense.
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Feb 27, 2023 20:11
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ki pulsing is fun because it pushes you to switch stances and make the most of your weapon’s full moveset
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Feb 27, 2023 20:12
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I saw flux on the skill tree, thought "oh that sounds annoying" and literally never used it, in either Nioh game Just picked a stance I liked for each weapon type and stuck with it, sometimes switching for certain enemies. It was not a problem.
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Feb 27, 2023 20:26
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BurningBeard posted:I’m interested in this but am waiting to pick it up on Gamepass this Friday. What are the key differences between it and other Nioh games? No stamina I guess, but how does parrying factor in from a practical standpoint? What makes the parrying mechanic for this game distinct? Is there a posture meter like in Sekiro? I didn't play Sekiro but this seems similar in that you have a "momentum" bar to worry about. Qi attacks, getting hit, blocking, and casting spells all drain this bar, but hitting enemies and parrying increases the bar. If you play poorly your bar gets maxed out, then you get stunned and are open to attack. If you break the enemy's bar they are opened to a special attack that does giga damage. I think Sekiro functioned similarly in that it challenges you to keep applying pressure to your enemy while parrying and dodging everything that you can to keep your momentum. Another huge difference from Nioh is the Morale system. Every mob on the map has a morale number, and so do you. Your number goes up with kills, and can be locked into a higher number as you progress through the level's checkpoints. If you die to a mob their morale increases. So far it doesn't seem to increase by much, and I've only seen it happen one time so you can't unintentionally over buff a monster until it's too powerful to beat. Diephoon fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 20:34
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BurningBeard posted:I’m interested in this but am waiting to pick it up on Gamepass this Friday. What are the key differences between it and other Nioh games? No stamina I guess, but how does parrying factor in from a practical standpoint? What makes the parrying mechanic for this game distinct? Is there a posture meter like in Sekiro? the biggest difference is that a lot of the more granular mechanical elements of the previous nioh titles have been simplified. there's no stance swapping or ki pulse to deal with, and only two real in-combat resources to worry about. weapons are now like they are in dark souls, in that you have a simple light attack combo that doesn't require precise inputs, a "spirit attack" (heavy attack), a couple of context-sensitive attacks like running, jumping, etc., and special "martial arts" attacks, of which you can have two and which are simple button presses. instead of complicated sphere grids for every weapon, you level up one of 5 elemental stats, which increases a set of attributes and unlocks progression in a simple per-element talent tree of wizardry spells, which are accessible to everyone if they have the given elemental stat requirement to use them instead of a stamina meter or posture bar, wo long has a "spirit" bar that's divided into two sections: high spirit (blue) and low spirit (orange). you start at neutral between the two and build up spirit by basic attacking, which either pushes you into high spirit or helps to pay off your low spirit "debt". spirit is used to perform special attacks and spells, and any cost you can't pay with your high spirit pushes you into low spirit. being hit by attacks, deflecting (parrying), dodging, and blocking cost a certain amount of spirit, with deflecting costing the least and opening enemies up to counter hits that generate more spirit for you. bottoming out on low spirit will stagger you and make you incredibly vulnerable to attacks, while forcing an enemy to bottom out will open them up for spirit disruption (a riposte/critical hit in the souls games) there's nothing especially unique about the parrying, since it works more-or-less like a just guard in other games: if you time it right, you'll deflect an attack and take no damage, and your attacker will stagger if they're a non-monstrous humanoid. some enemies will perform critical attacks (re: perilous attacks) that will severely deplete their spirit if you deflect them properly Vermain fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 20:39
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Got it. So the magic sauce is the spirit meter. That's awesome. Count me among the people that thought Sekiro was From at their tightest and most mechanically cohesive. This sounds like exactly what I would want out of a Team Ninja game. I thought the stance system was awesome, but I didn't have the time or patience to get really good at it. Pulses were cool though. This sounds like the good kind of simplification to me. Thanks for the detailed info goons y'all rock.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:12
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Augus posted:ki pulsing is fun because it pushes you to switch stances and make the most of your weapon’s full moveset This is where my disconnect with Nioh is exactly. I LOVE the idea of weapon/stance switching to recover stamina, the entire pulse timing aspect I dislike. My dream accessibility options Nioh has the pulse automatic and the weapon switch be the stamina recovery. But dreams are dreams and Wo Long appears to be cool, and real, maybe even my friend.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:17
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OxMan posted:This is where my disconnect with Nioh is exactly. I LOVE the idea of weapon/stance switching to recover stamina, the entire pulse timing aspect I dislike. My dream accessibility options Nioh has the pulse automatic and the weapon switch be the stamina recovery. But dreams are dreams and Wo Long appears to be cool, and real, maybe even my friend. The word maybe is doing some heavy lifting there. Haha
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Feb 27, 2023 21:21
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You could get a skill in Nioh that made ki pulse something that happens on dodge. Makes doing it a whole lot easier, if you don't want to stance switch. Stance switching was fun and good, though. Game was perfectly playable by doing mid 99% of the time but if you switch you tore through enemies a whole lot faster and looked badass doing it.
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Feb 27, 2023 21:27
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Vermain posted:the biggest difference is that a lot of the more granular mechanical elements of the previous nioh titles have been simplified. there's no stance swapping or ki pulse to deal with, and only two real in-combat resources to worry about. weapons are now like they are in dark souls, in that you have a simple light attack combo that doesn't require precise inputs, a "spirit attack" (heavy attack), a couple of context-sensitive attacks like running, jumping, etc., and special "martial arts" attacks, of which you can have two and which are simple button presses. instead of complicated sphere grids for every weapon, you level up one of 5 elemental stats, which increases a set of attributes and unlocks progression in a simple per-element talent tree of wizardry spells, which are accessible to everyone if they have the given elemental stat requirement to use them I think another thing that was important was that the Heavy Attack also spends any high spirit that you have in order to boost its damage
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Feb 27, 2023 21:30
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Unlucky7 posted:I think another thing that was important was that the Heavy Attack also spends any high spirit that you have in order to boost its damage yeah, spirit attacks are best used while full on high spirit, since special attacks like spirit attacks and martial arts will limit an opponent's max spirit and shrink their spirit bar until you proc spirit disruption
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Feb 27, 2023 21:34
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My problem with stance switching in Nioh was always just that I don't like it being a trigger hold and a button press. I'm not sure I could come up with a better solution given what you need to control-wise in that game, but the button combination made it feel bad, to me.
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Feb 28, 2023 09:39
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hit level 20 in the demo, which appears to be the level cap until friday. game's loving good i think wood is an excellent first playthrough phase to focus on: you get a beefy HP bar, enhanced buff/debuff durations, and access to some great self buffs and a smattering of offensive spells. you also get two rock solid weapon choices in bronze sword and quarterstaff, so you get a ton of straightforward power and two good multipurpose movesets to handle whatever comes your way
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Feb 28, 2023 09:57
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Replaying the demo to try it solo and pick up the dual wield weapons I missed my first time through. Is there a way to extend your magic hotbar or can you really only use 4 at a time? For how much utility you get out of them that seems pretty low, and I remember in Nioh there was an option buried in the menu to give yourself more item sets so you could have 4 sets of 4 quick icons. But in this game we do have a separate item bar a la Dark Souls so
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Feb 28, 2023 10:07
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BurningBeard posted:Got it. So the magic sauce is the spirit meter. That's awesome. Count me among the people that thought Sekiro was From at their tightest and most mechanically cohesive. This sounds like exactly what I would want out of a Team Ninja game. I thought the stance system was awesome, but I didn't have the time or patience to get really good at it. Pulses were cool though. This sounds like the good kind of simplification to me. Basically like Vermain said imagine in Sekiro if you didn't have like 10-15 emblems to do the call abilities but it was based on how aggressive you fight. That is Wolong it basically lets you do cool poo poo unlimited as long as you fight aggressive. That's what makes it brilliant imo. Only thing I didn't like about the demo is the ai companion, I never play with a companion in any of these games SoP, Code Vein. It's fun in a 2nd playthrough or for grinding but it makes the base game poo poo easy. These bosses ain't coded to fight 1 person properly, let alone 2.
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Feb 28, 2023 16:01
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Yeah, I think someone posted earlier that you can dismiss them, but I didn't see the option for that anywhere.
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Feb 28, 2023 16:52
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Hulk Krogan posted:Yeah, I think someone posted earlier that you can dismiss them, but I didn't see the option for that anywhere. It's an item, Willow branch or something
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Feb 28, 2023 16:54
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Hulk Krogan posted:Yeah, I think someone posted earlier that you can dismiss them, but I didn't see the option for that anywhere. In the second stage at your first flag you get a new option for the co-op menu (can't remember what they actually call it). When you open that menu for the first time it drops the willow branch item into your inventory, which is used to disconnect from other players, but also works on NPCs. You can dismiss Zhao Yun as soon as he joins. The NPC in the first stage just isn't there on repeat plays. Special cutscene finish doesn't work for the boss after the first time either. lets hang out fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 17:05
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Takes No Damage posted:Is there a way to extend your magic hotbar or can you really only use 4 at a time? it's a maximum of 4, which feels like a deliberate attempt to make the choice of which spells to take more impactful; even a second bar of 4 would allow you to cover most of the spells in a single tree a game like ER gave you enough spell slots that you could cover almost all of your bases, but that consequently made each spell feel less like a part of your build and more like another tool in the toolkit. i think the emphasis here is on choosing the spells which best support your playstyle or the situation you find yourself in over becoming a swiss army knife, which helps to create more definition to each individual character
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Feb 28, 2023 19:21
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I'm happy with a smaller available pool of spells. Prebuffing in Nioh 2 gets silly at the high end. Reapplying all those buffs mid-fight gets even worse.
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Feb 28, 2023 19:33
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Ulio posted:Like why did Tlou1 need a remake? Because of the HBO show, which in turn caused its sales to skyrocket. Sony likes to make money!
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Feb 28, 2023 19:51
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I didn’t see a spell loadout feature in the demo and hopefully the full game has one because you’re going to be changing spells a lot, as you won’t have the morale to cast most of them at the start of a mission and build up to the 15+ morale floor ones.
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Feb 28, 2023 20:15
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isk posted:I'm happy with a smaller available pool of spells. Prebuffing in Nioh 2 gets silly at the high end. Reapplying all those buffs mid-fight gets even worse. The I have kill this boss before my buffs run out because I going get splattered against the wall if re apply buff is kinda funny
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Feb 28, 2023 20:26
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Wait there are morale requirements on some spells? I'd hope that none require Max morale. Like will you get enough morale from running the level once clean to use them?
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Feb 28, 2023 22:17
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The final tier of spells seem to require maxed morale, or close to it, but I imagine there will be some item that will give you max morale instantly. I will horde 999 of them and never use them “in case I need it later”
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Mar 1, 2023 01:52
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I came back to this today to wrap up the demo and goddamn I can't wait to play more of this.
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Mar 1, 2023 04:25
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I am correct that review embargo lifts tomorrow?
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Mar 1, 2023 16:21
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Caved and played the demo because I'm impatient. That boss at the end of the first stage is a real fucker. I'm also not very good lol. I hope there'll be an opportunity to expand your move set in some way. If it ends up being attack, spirit attack, four spells, martial arts and that's all I admit I might be just a bit bummed. Only just a little though. Everything feels great and fluid. Whoever said weaving spells into your normal combos feels natural is dead on. Very stylish too. What do the chi phases actually effect? I don't think the game bothered to explain that.
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Mar 1, 2023 16:23
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