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Alchenar posted:Yeah but as others said, once you remove the reference there's no joke there. It's just the characters saying episode titles. To be fair, the Sub Rosa case Boimler actually describes the plot. It's The Drumhead he namedrops in the same speech. But both of them aren't actually jokes unless you're really generous that him drifting off topic is the gag, and even then it's not good. And like... the episode titles almost never are directly part of the episode so why do the characters know them? Hell, why is the Sub Rosa thing even notable outside of Crusher and the Enterprise crew? Professor Beetus posted:Episode titles are used as shorthand because in most cases it would be tedious for boimler to say "is this like that time Commander Riker got kidnapped and gaslit by an alien species???" It's a silly standard to expect the comedy show to have jokes? And also, why reference Riker at all? Wouldn't that leave more room for jokes and characterisation? But, bottom line, comedy is way more subjective than almost anything else. There's exceptions to almost any person's 'rules' for what they find funny or not funny. There's gonna be the odd reference I like in LDS, there's shows that do the meta stuff that I like (I love Community, for instance, but Abed referencing his friends being like Friends makes sense in context, because he relates to stuff via TV) and shows that have unlikeable characters I enjoy (but usually because the show acknowledges them as unlikeable from the get-go or they're not the protagonist). I like Brooklyn 99 and Parks & Rec and the early seasons of Archer. I don't like most of Seinfeld or most cringe comedy. In conclusion, my comedy taste is a land of contrasts. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 20:50
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Jack Crusher is half candle ghost and thats why baddie wants him or whatever
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Feb 28, 2023 20:52
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Pyroi posted:Jack Crusher is half candle ghost and thats why baddie wants him or whatever We are quickly approaching an episode of Maury in which Picard, Candle Ghost, Berlinghoff Rasmussen, and Q are all going to have to take paternity tests.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:11
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Gaz-L posted:To be fair, the Sub Rosa case Boimler actually describes the plot. It's The Drumhead he namedrops in the same speech. But both of them aren't actually jokes unless you're really generous that him drifting off topic is the gag, and even then it's not good. And like... the episode titles almost never are directly part of the episode so why do the characters know them? Hell, why is the Sub Rosa thing even notable outside of Crusher and the Enterprise crew? there are plenty of jokes in there too, but you're right that humor is subjective! meta references themselves aren't "jokes" per say, but references to specifically highlight callbacks in humorous ways can still be funny, particularly in a show which seems to be a love letter to the TNG and TOS eras. lampshading the good and bad stuff in trek in a celebratory fashion is also part of what gives LDS it's heart, imo.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:12
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Charity Porno posted:remember when a green space god's hand grabbed the Enterprise? A one off movie-episode from the original series vs an intergalactic event that was caused by the most stupid thing possible and physically changed the entire way starships work and political entities collapsed, after universe lore has been established for multiple decades from the Original series. Like Discovery's "twist" of the dilithium situation in the future is just so loving out there, even compared to wierder poo poo in Star Trek. It's different and it is a risk, I'll give them that. I even kind of love the idea of the Discovery crew recreating the Federation in the far future, that's fun. TERRIBLE execution though. I feel bad for Discovery far more than Picard, because it all seems like "Great Concept/ loving Awful execution" time and again, and to it credit tries new things. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 21:34
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John Wick of Dogs posted:To be fair these ensigns in particular are pretty consistently depicted as like starfleet super fans who probably read all the logs they can and memorize that poo poo. Boimler and Tendi in particular do a lot of hero worship. That, and Freeman was posted to the Enterprise-D and had Mariner with her, so she actually knows those people and was on the ship for some of it.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:42
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mllaneza posted:That, and Freeman was posted to the Enterprise-D and had Mariner with her, so she actually knows those people and was on the ship for some of it. Yeah, Riker was just straight up letting child Mariner root through all the contraband the Enterprise confiscated behind Picard's back.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:48
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Picard's primary issue for me is that it only knows how to "HEY REMEMBER STAR TREK?!" and then every plot thread is "SEASON BIG BAD IS EVIL AND MEAN, WANTS TO gently caress UP WHOLE GALAXY (somehow)?" It's like a Saturday morning cartoon, and the characters are some of the worst "Starfleet" officers I've ever seen. It's barely even Star Trek. It's Mass Effect/ Terminator/ First Contact/ Wrath of Khan mixed together mess. It's all SOOO dumb and the plot makes no sense, and isn't even interesting enough to get into, because anything interesting is sped through so quickly to focus on mystery box bad guy. Discovery is at least at times trying to be a new Star Trek, even though again its failing is its execution of its ideas. Picard's writing is utterly devoid of creativity, themes, and new ideas.
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Feb 28, 2023 21:50
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TulliusCicero posted:Picard's primary issue for me is that it only knows how to "HEY REMEMBER STAR TREK?!" and then every plot thread is "SEASON BIG BAD IS EVIL AND MEAN, WANTS TO gently caress UP WHOLE GALAXY (somehow)?"
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Feb 28, 2023 22:02
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Watching DS9 S3E2 and thinking about how Modern Trek would stretch these great two episodes into ten bad ones
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Feb 28, 2023 22:07
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Watched "Matter of Preseptive" TNG Season 3 ep 14. Once again, Troi is worthless. Two scenerios are presented: 1.) Riker speaks with the scientist and his wife, wife asks him to stay the night and then Riker speaks with the wife alone in his quarters,. Wife is flirty but its fine. 2.) Riker forces his way into staying night on the station, speaks with the wife alone in his quarters, and physically assaults her, forcing himself on her until getting caught. Troi, "Well, everyone believes they are telling the truth." WTF, either Riker assaulted the wife or he didn't. Riker has to be the worst flirt in the galaxy (doubtful) and the wife has to believe that any interaction is akin to rape. Burning_Monk fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 22:14
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Minidust posted:Picard S2 seemed to be going for some kind of record when they introduced and resolved a galaxy-ending threat in like, the last 10 minutes of the season. It was truly something to behold. And then it's literally forgotten about a scene later.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:21
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Seriously. I have no idea what that space anomaly laser what supposed to be. It was just “big bad weird space thing opened up!” as a season opener, and it ended with “lol nvm the good borg stopped whatever that was  ”.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:23
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TulliusCicero posted:A one off movie-episode from the original series vs an intergalactic event that was caused by the most stupid thing possible and physically changed the entire way starships work and political entities collapsed, after universe lore has been established for multiple decades from the Original series. You're still reaching that Discovery has *uniquely* weird, goofy things. Despite the episodic nature of the series, TOS did have a few pieces of continuity. One of them was the "Organian Treaty" that forced the Federation and the Klingon Empire into a sort of peace treaty that lasted throughout the rest of the show AND all the movies. And I do mean Forced, as the treaty was "brokered" by a race of extremely powerful aliens who would utterly wreck the side who broke the treaty. Also, due to the fact that DS9 time traveled to "The Trouble with Tribbles", the Organian Treaty was still considered canon decades later. The Klingon commander using the Organian Treaty to give his crew shore leave on a Federation aligned station was why the Klingons were on the space station. If you want an non-TOS examples, the Traveler concept beyond their introductory episode is pretty half-baked at best. And the extreme brain-rot of the Marquis continues to the present day with Prodigy having the characters being "Maquis" even though their whole point was they were assorted groups of colonists and not a unified people or culture. All of Star Trek has had weird, goofy poo poo. Hating on Discovery for traits that all Star Trek shows have just makes you look desperate for reasons to "objectively" dislike the show.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:26
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nine-gear crow posted:And then it's literally forgotten about a scene later. It's amazing to me the level of forgot in Picard: -How big the Galaxy is How big Romulan space is -what Romulans are like -The Klingon Empire -what the Federation is like -Measure of a Man and the Doctor had already settled the rights of sentient artificial life forms decades ago -How physics work -Wesley is Picard's surrogate child already -what the gently caress was the point of Elnore, the "Romulan" Warrior monk (Lmao what) -Agnes and the Borg -Rios impact on the past(though I think that was resolved?) -The Mirror Universe already exist, why make a new even more dumb one? -seven of Nine straight up murdered a lady -Picard's personality -Dajj/ Soji, the other surrogate child Picard promised to be a mentor of, that got exploded/ just hosed off never to be mentioned again -the Temporal Prime Directive -ANY Prime Directive -the Federation is a Post-Scarcity society with mass replicators :why is Raffi choosing to live in squalor and yelling at Picard about how rich he is (again lamo what). (Maybe the replicators were all destroyed by another psychic child crying) -that the Tal Shiar exist and would immediately be suspicious of any other Romulan organization like DAJJ VAJJ or Slurm Wurm or whatever the gently caress it was called. -AGAIN, WHAT ROMULANS ARE LIKE, they ain't Vulcans and the "ceremonies" things are bizarre -How to write sci fi -how to write compelling characters -how to write
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Feb 28, 2023 22:33
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Burning_Monk posted:Watched "Matter of Preseptive" TNG Season 3 ep 14. Once again, Troi is worthless. part of the subtext of the episode is the unreliability of eyewitness testimony. for example, the fight between the doctor and Riker has wildly divergent outcomes from the different points of view, which is also implausible. But point is, none of the recreations is likely 100% accurate - they are just dramatizations from accounts given by the witnesses. So they are just reenacting how each witness interpreted what happened. For example, perhaps the doctor punched Riker and connected, and felt he had shown Riker up. But from Riker's POV, he had deflected the force of the punch, and felt in total control of the fight. The wife was appalled, and felt they were both being stupid and violent, and wasn't really invested in 'who won'.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:33
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HD DAD posted:Seriously. I have no idea what that space anomaly laser what supposed to be. It was just “big bad weird space thing opened up!” as a season opener, and it ended with “lol nvm the good borg stopped whatever that was Man, I hope someone does a Chaos On The Bridge style documentary on what the gently caress went so catastrophically wrong with Picard's second season at some point. I would like to know what, if any, the thought processes was with each of the people who contributed to writing that season and their reasons for doing what they did with it, and how loving bad do you have to gently caress up to the point where Akiva Goldsman wrote the only legitimately good episodes of it somehow?
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Feb 28, 2023 22:34
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These are shows from different eras trying to be different things. TOS was a shoestring budget mess running off a wildly variable set of whatever scripts they could get their hands on and what shooting lots they could get for free. TOS is goofy, but it never demands that you see the goofiness for anything other than what it is. Discovery absolutely wants you to take it seriously and believe that it is saying something deep and profound.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:38
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Twincityhacker posted:You're still reaching that Discovery has *uniquely* weird, goofy things. I actually mentioned specifically that I didn't hate Discovery and want it to be better, and even mentioned ideas I do like about it, but okay. I don't mind the big event that destroys the Dilithium, I mind how incredibly poorly it was explained and executed. It's sloppy and lazy, poorly thought out. Spock just showing up and being the main character's brother is sloppy and poorly thought out. Both are potentially interesting/ fun concepts A Captain from the Mirror Universe getting into Starfleet as an infiltration is a fun concept. Even the Spore Drive is a fun concept. It's not executed well by the writing, but the potential is there. The only thing I truly hate in Discovery are the Klingons, goddamn do they suck and I'm glad they went to the far future so we don't have to see that horrible "reimagining" of Klingons anymore into Egyptian orcs.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:40
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:part of the subtext of the episode is the unreliability of eyewitness testimony. for example, the fight between the doctor and Riker has wildly divergent outcomes from the different points of view, which is also implausible. But point is, none of the recreations is likely 100% accurate - they are just dramatizations from accounts given by the witnesses. So they are just reenacting how each witness interpreted what happened. For example, perhaps the doctor punched Riker and connected, and felt he had shown Riker up. But from Riker's POV, he had deflected the force of the punch, and felt in total control of the fight. The wife was appalled, and felt they were both being stupid and violent, and wasn't really invested in 'who won'. Sure, and that works for some of the interactions. You could tell that they were going for a "the truth is in the middle" kind of stuff for the subtle things. But, "he violently grabbed me and forced himself on me" vs. "we had a nice chat and she touched my arm" are VERY different things to experience.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:40
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Huh, was looking at pics of the new ships from Picard S3 (Eleos and Titan-A), and their common feature is that they both have windows really close to the impulse engines. Like, if you were looking out of one, your face would be six feet from a blasting jet of superheated and possibly radioactive plasma exhaust. Doesn't seem safe, but maybe the bulkhead is made from the same stuff as that door in Disco that blocked a multi-megaton antimatter explosion.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:51
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TulliusCicero posted:It's amazing to me the level of forgot in Picard: This is broadly covered by "how physics work" but we can update to include "how time of day works on a planet" with that throwaway "it's afternoon in the Sol system" line last week. Really a minor line that shouldn't bother me, but one that shows just how little effort goes into this.
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Feb 28, 2023 22:57
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I mean technically it's always afternoon somewhere in the Sol system.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:12
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Payndz posted:Huh, was looking at pics of the new ships from Picard S3 (Eleos and Titan-A), and their common feature is that they both have windows really close to the impulse engines. Like, if you were looking out of one, your face would be six feet from a blasting jet of superheated and possibly radioactive plasma exhaust. Doesn't seem safe, but maybe the bulkhead is made from the same stuff as that door in Disco that blocked a multi-megaton antimatter explosion. Is it that much different from the folks who have their windows directly under the bussard collectors of the Steamrunner class? The inside of their quarters is basically  24/7 without reprieve.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:13
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"what's going on in there, O'Brien?"
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Feb 28, 2023 23:15
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nine-gear crow posted:Watch this week's episode of Picard has JL saying to Beverly "This isn't like the time you got Sub Rosa'd, is it?"
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Feb 28, 2023 23:23
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My fingers are still crossed Picard throws us a bone why his son has an english accent and doesn't just throw it in the pile of very minor but very bafflingly aggravating elements.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:27
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HD DAD posted:Seriously. I have no idea what that space anomaly laser what supposed to be. It was just “big bad weird space thing opened up!” as a season opener, and it ended with “lol nvm the good borg stopped whatever that was https://twitter.com/TerryMatalas/status/1630345390162866176 https://twitter.com/TerryMatalas/status/1630608818970427393 Twitter rando: Hey, what happened to Jurati and her Borg co-op? Matalas: gently caress you.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:29
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The disdain for fan questions and for just giving real answers to their own unanswered story threads by the Picard folks is really something to behold. If you aren’t actively kissing their rear end and telling them how much you cried at the sight of Worf in a bad wig then you’re just dirt to them.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:37
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nine-gear crow posted:Twitter rando: Hey, what happened to Jurati and her Borg co-op?
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Feb 28, 2023 23:40
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Picard sucks and all but you guys really are just complaining about a ton of stuff every other Trek did too. Like Conspiracy was dropped like a hot potato in TNG because it sucked and was stupid and no one wanted to follow up on it, Matalas decided not to acknowledge the dumbest ending of all time from the last season isn't that different
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Feb 28, 2023 23:40
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Note: The Jurati Collective died on the way back to their home planet.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:42
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TBH I didn't really feel like the anomaly was something that needed exploring more, it was an anomaly and the borg fixed it at the end. It's not a mystery unless you expect them to follow up on every weird thing that happens, which definitely is not what happened in most cases in Star Trek. "well, that was some weird poo poo, I guess it'll make for a decent captain's log" It's a lovely way to answer those questions though and matalas is firmly in the "sucks" column for me.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:43
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Professor Beetus posted:I mean technically it's always afternoon somewhere in the Sol system. What about at night, smart guy??
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Feb 28, 2023 23:43
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CPColin posted:What about at night, smart guy?? god drat, I didn't think about that
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Feb 28, 2023 23:43
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nine-gear crow posted:https://twitter.com/TerryMatalas/status/1630345390162866176 Best of Both Worlds actually wrapped up it's finale perfectly Terry, by continuing the plot thread of the cliffhanger into the next season's first episode, so  Who the gently caress is Terry Matalas and why is he such a stupid jackass? I know he is behind S3 of Picard but what did he do before this?
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Feb 28, 2023 23:46
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No Dignity posted:Picard sucks and all but you guys really are just complaining about a ton of stuff every other Trek did too. Like Conspiracy was dropped like a hot potato in TNG because it sucked and was stupid and no one wanted to follow up on it, Matalas decided not to acknowledge the dumbest ending of all time from the last season isn't that different I mean I really don't care about any of the plot threads in Season 2 either, I just wish Matalas would nut up and cop to the fact that the answer to every "But what about...?" question in regards to season 2 was that it was just an excuse to write each particular actor off the show and nothing more.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:46
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nine-gear crow posted:https://twitter.com/TerryMatalas/status/1630345390162866176 a wizard did it
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Feb 28, 2023 23:46
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TulliusCicero posted:Best of Both Worlds actually wrapped up it's finale perfectly Terry, by continuing the plot thread of the cliffhanger into the next season's first episode, so 12 Monkeys, the Nikita reboot, and then was Brannon Braga's coffee boy on Terra Nova, Threshold, Enterprise and Voyager. So he's got a track record of duds, an inexplicable hit with 12 Monkeys, and then back to dogshit with Picard.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:48
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'the real borg' Lol I know it was awful but don't poo poo on your own show or throw your colleagues under the bus for trying to fix what you dropped on them
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