|
his Erdtree isn't there thing doesn't make sense there are paintings all throughout the world that depict it (maybe all from before it burned the first time?), ghosts and NPC's mention it and are looking at it (maybe they're just wishing they could?), Morgott is guarding it and says we can't get in and he's right, we can't, and then we burn it and it disperses embers from weeping peninsula up to the snowfields, and it covers Leyndell in like thirty feet of ash but the vines are still all there unless his claim is that it's actually really big vines that go as high as the tree that we're hallucinating but that's sort of a meaningless distinction wyoak fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 1, 2023 |
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 18:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:10 |
|
|
Yeah, it doesn't look like the Haligtree to me unless you squint real hard. Quite possible it's an origin of the Haligtree and the current one was a rescued sapling or something, but considering Godwyn is chilling at the roots and deathblight creates a tree, that seems more likely. Admittedly, creating your Erdtree for Misfit Lands Betweeners that's a sanctuary for those oppressed by the Golden Order and then locating it around and strangling the Erdtree doing the oppressing is a move I'd approve of and respect.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 18:49
|
|
|
I think the only thing of his I'm not really sold on is that the current one we see isn't corporeal. I don't think the golden runes item description is showing that not everyone can see the bigass tree, it's just poetic license a character took when beholding it the different trees bit blew my mind though, along with making sense of the Crucible imagery. that's real poo poo
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 18:50
|
|
|
Kind of the running theme for Elden Ring and Souls lore in general is that the past is frequently misunderstood and constantly being rewritten by the present so any LORE EXPLAINED 1:1 explanation for anything is insufficient.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 18:50
|
|
|
Tosk posted:I have no idea how the development of a video game like Elden Ring works so maybe one of you has more insight. A lot of Tarnished Archaeologist's points are incredible, but a few in particular make me wonder if there was an intentional design decision behind it, or just a case of assets being reused in clever ways. Watch some of Zullie or Lance McDonald's videos where they go into detail about cut content or weird technical details about what's in the game. Tons of assets very clearly went through dramatic changes and repurposing over the course of development and entire plot elements were created or dropped to justify them. I think that people often ignore or forget that games like these are the collaborative effort of dozens or hundreds of people operating under technical and time constraints. turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 18:50
|
|
|
oh, I also really enjoyed the bit about the belief that you can use nails to drive off plant growth. good stuff
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 18:53
|
|
|
wyoak posted:his Erdtree isn't there thing doesn't make sense “invisible to some” shouldn’t be taken to mean “unreal” in this game. Maybe the video guy thinks it’s the same thing, idk since I haven’t watched his videos, but if so it’s false equivalence imo. I mean we know other people can’t all see the guidance of grace, but it’s not that there is no such thing as grace and your character is stumbling around seeing purple elephants, it’s just that it’s a magical phenomenon not everyone can see. Since the Erdtree appears (especially from a distance) to be made of the same golden light as grace, I suspect it’s a similar situation. Maybe Roderika and Blackguard and whoever literally can’t see the tree. But that means they’re spiritually blind to it, not that we’re delusional. The most confusing thing about potential Erdtree burning is the dogma that “the burning of the Erdtree is the first cardinal sin”. We know that there are prophecies that the Erdtree will burn, and that these are considered bad, but this doesn’t say it “would be” a sin, but that it “is”. One could logically infer from this that the tree has been burnt, if not for the fact that it is still there and seems to have suffered no particular ill effects till we get our hands on it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:06
|
|
|
Erdtree or whatever was before Erdtree probably burned in the past, but it's real obvious that we burn a for-realsies huge tree by the end of the game the tree is real but invisible to other people who are alive at the same time the Tarnished is murdering everyone is kind of a meaningless theory imo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:11
|
|
|
wyoak posted:his Erdtree isn't there thing doesn't make sense Some can see it, just as some can see the guidance of grace, which is also an ephemeral, golden, glowing light source. If you get close to the Erdtree, right at the opening to its interior, you'll see the good doesn't totally cover it. There's a hosed up looking tree that the gold is partially covering. That's the stump of the burned out Erdtree. The gold tree we see is visible for the same reason that grace is visible to us. Notice as well that the city is caked in mountains of ash.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:13
|
|
|
SlimGoodbody posted:Some can see it, just as some can see the guidance of grace, which is also an ephemeral, golden, glowing light source. If you get close to the Erdtree, right at the opening to its interior, you'll see the good doesn't totally cover it. There's a hosed up looking tree that the gold is partially covering. That's the stump of the burned out Erdtree. The gold tree we see is visible for the same reason that grace is visible to us. Notice as well that the city is caked in mountains of ash.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:15
|
|
|
About the 'the erdtree is burned and so you can see a ghost of it' thing, aren't the trees that give golden seeds, mini-erdtrees? Are they also supposed to be burned? It seems to me that the erdtree and the mini-trees just glow gold.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:18
|
|
|
skasion posted:“invisible to some” shouldn’t be taken to mean “unreal” in this game. Maybe the video guy thinks it’s the same thing, idk since I haven’t watched his videos, but if so it’s false equivalence imo. I mean we know other people can’t all see the guidance of grace, but it’s not that there is no such thing as grace and your character is stumbling around seeing purple elephants, it’s just that it’s a magical phenomenon not everyone can see. Since the Erdtree appears (especially from a distance) to be made of the same golden light as grace, I suspect it’s a similar situation. Maybe Roderika and Blackguard and whoever literally can’t see the tree. But that means they’re spiritually blind to it, not that we’re delusional. I'd say there's no way the Erdtree hasn't been burnt before. Or if it wasn't the Erdtree, it was a similar magic/spiritual tree connecting the Lands Between to the Greater Will or some other celestial being(s). Burning the Erdtree is both the first cardinal sin and prophesied because the Greater Will knows it has happened before and will happen again, but doesn't want it to happen because of whatever power over the Lands Between and it's people the Erdtree gives it. Or, on second thought, I guess it does want it to happen since it seems to help you via the fingers. Idk what it's getting out of you when you might just go chaos flame. Miyazaki's games are consistently about cycles and how resistance to those cycles, especially the cycle of life and death, are the causes of suffering. I'd say the interesting thing here is that, whereas usually who/whatever stops the cycle doesn't know the suffering they'll cause, the Greater Will likely did know. Decon fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Mar 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:21
|
|
|
wyoak posted:if it's just a stump, what covers Leyndell in mountains of ash after Farum Azula I have a hunch its related to time fuckery.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:26
|
|
|
I think I would have to assume that what happened is that Melina burned the Erdtree once before, but for whatever reason (maybe she didn't have the giantsflame before?) it didn't take, so the Erdtree was ravaged but not destroyed, and its spirit survived, while Melina was left "burnt and bodiless." The gold tree which may or may not be visible to everybody else is a remembrance covering up the Erdtree's true shape, which is significantly more hosed-up. In the game, we see Melina (a spirit) to burn the Erdtree body and soul. I think there's enough evidence at this point for us to be certain that the tree has burned before: 1) Leyndell is covered in ash before we even get there. 2) The Golden Order clearly has a thing about burning down the Erdtree, which doesn't really make sense if it hasn't happened or nearly happened in the past. 3) The one triangular slit of actual wood in the middle of the golden tree, which clearly means... something. 4) There's precedent for golden phantasms in remembrance of things past, which even have physical form. "Most people can't see the Erdtree" is a lot more tenuous but I think you could at least go for "if you can't see the guidance of grace you won't see the Erdtree eclipsing the sun with its golden light."
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:27
|
|
|
Two people talk about seeing the erdtree that I can recall. Corhyn after it's burning talks about it burning in front of his eyes. Of course, he is blindfolded, which is funny. Boc, on the other hand, is a demi-human who talks about seeing the tree when you meet him in leyndell.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:30
|
|
|
The Erdtree is literally gilded (and all that implies). I won’t go as far as to say the outer covering is a spirit or invisible to those without the guidance of grace, but the gold shining “bark” is a sheathe over what appears to be a burnt or at least withered tree. I can’t help but think of the one area in Farum Azula with the tentacle-faced death guys vomiting on trees and seeming to turn their trunks into stone. I don’t know the connection, if there is one, but the bark we see on the Erdtree certainly looks more like stone than tree bark when you’re up close
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
Also when you burn the tree there’s a montage of random human mobs watching it happen
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:32
|
|
|
I just kind of get the idea there's been multiple civilizations with multiple trees and Marika's age is just the latest to rise and very slowly fall. like with linking the fire in Dark Souls, we can either fix the Elden Ring and perpetuate what was or we can make something new the way things are isn't working for everyone: the misbegotten and albinaurics are big losers in the current status quo. the omens are ostracized through no fault of their own. the Tarnished are literally the descendents of Godfrey/Hoarah Loux and his followers, who were exiled from the Lands Between and were excluded from the Erdtree and its blessings. we're only let back in and let back in to the grace of gold because all else has failed for the Two Fingers and their establishment
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:36
|
|
|
One interesting thing is Astel has a move that is very similar to a move that the Elden Beast has which is where it swipes a hand horizontally in front of it which produces a sort of cosmic purple starry mist/gas that then explodes. I think that means the fact that astel and the related star monsters are stony is connected to the fact that the erdtree is stony (among other things, like the fact the elden beast was also a "beast that fell as a star" ("falling star beast")). Idk what that means ofc lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:36
|
|
|
The golden erdtree being a sort of "phantom" erdtree does not necessarily mean its ash can't be real. Just like golden Godfrey can gently caress you up for real. The golden phantoms are not "ghosts" that can't interact with you, they're just idealized versions of things or people.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:40
|
|
|
The eldtree is obviously just a stand in for the Chinese state during the imperial periods. Including the emperor being a powerless figurehead The black knife stuff is just a successful version of the honeydew plot
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:43
|
|
|
I always took the beast using that attack to be it stealing something effective from its enemies, and that I should be very lucky we didn't end up in the timeline where the Elden Beast was an aircraft carrier-sized Basilisk. It's from space too tho so maybe it's just a space monster thing. Starting to sound more like this was a real possibility every day lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
SHISHKABOB posted:One interesting thing is Astel has a move that is very similar to a move that the Elden Beast has which is where it swipes a hand horizontally in front of it which produces a sort of cosmic purple starry mist/gas that then explodes. I think that means the fact that astel and the related star monsters are stony is connected to the fact that the erdtree is stony (among other things, like the fact the elden beast was also a "beast that fell as a star" ("falling star beast")). Idk what that means ofc lol the prior ones followed a natural cycle wherein the tree grew and was burned and then a new one sprouted from the crucible aka the stump. Marika then completely fucks with this by both sequestering death from the lands between and loving with the tree cycle as well when godwyn's corpse corrupts the very roots of the great tree.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
is there any explanation for the focal point of the 6 great rune towers arranged in a hexagon surrounding a spot in the middle of the sea with a cloud drawn on it
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:47
|
|
|
Regarding the possibility of the erdtree burning before, recall that one of the Very Big Wars in the Lands Between was with the giants and their fire giant god, who got incredible punishments, their last survivor was forced to guard the focal point of burning the erdtree again, and likely originated(or reinforced) the warning that burning the tree is cardinal sin.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:55
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:is there any explanation for the focal point of the 6 great rune towers arranged in a hexagon surrounding a spot in the middle of the sea with a cloud drawn on it my suspicion is that the ultimate goal of one of the original drafts of the game was to activate all the towers and open up the way to farum azula, which would sit at their center, but budgetary or time constraints left mogh and radahn's domains unfinished, so they reordered the progression and shoved farum azula off to the side of the map and left that lil cloud in the middle instead
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:57
|
|
|
grieving for Gandalf posted:watching the Tarnished Archaelogist ruined Vaati for me because now I'm like "oh this is all surface-level bullshit" I can't stand the way basically every other lore nerd will take statement A and statement B, from say two different items, and when the puzzle pieces don't fit perfectly together just invent something wholesale to kludge them together. Meanwhile they're always getting frothy over imperfect translations ranging from genuine mistakes to the dreaded synonym.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:57
|
|
|
CharlestheHammer posted:The eldtree is obviously just a stand in for the Chinese state during the imperial periods. it’s like poetry, it rhymes
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 19:58
|
|
|
I'm currently doing Dung Eater's quest, and have a question on the fight in the Leyndell outer moat: is Dung Eater supposed to get spiked by magic? I entered the moat, a giant crab rose up from the mud, and then I got invaded by Dung Eater. But as I was smacking the crab, DE started running at me and then those magic spikes or roots (not sure what the spell/incantation is called) erupted from the ground and impaled him to death. I don't have any spells like that. What the hell happened? Boggart had already died (he had an "accident" after he back talked me in Liurnia).
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 20:00
|
|
|
Epic High Five posted:I always took the beast using that attack to be it stealing something effective from its enemies, and that I should be very lucky we didn't end up in the timeline where the Elden Beast was an aircraft carrier-sized Basilisk. It's from space too tho so maybe it's just a space monster thing. Starting to sound more like this was a real possibility every day lol The move from Astel's Wing is called nebula and I think its just a power space monsters learn amongst themselves.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 20:02
|
|
|
repugnant posted:I'm currently doing Dung Eater's quest, and have a question on the fight in the Leyndell outer moat: is Dung Eater supposed to get spiked by magic? I entered the moat, a giant crab rose up from the mud, and then I got invaded by Dung Eater. But as I was smacking the crab, DE started running at me and then those magic spikes or roots (not sure what the spell/incantation is called) erupted from the ground and impaled him to death. I don't have any spells like that. IIRC, that crab does death blight, which only works on players or player-like NPCs. So a happy little accident.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 20:02
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:IIRC, that crab does death blight, which only works on players or player-like NPCs. So a happy little accident. Dang, yeah I guess I got lucky.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 20:11
|
|
|
Something similar happened to me when fighting the Champions in the Deeproot Depths. Two of them piled on my mimic while I fought the third then suddenly the other group was all covered in a death cloud killing them all almost simultaneously and instantly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 20:11
|
|
|
repugnant posted:Dang, yeah I guess I got lucky. That happened to me too except the crab got both the dungeater and I lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 20:16
|
|
|
I still love Vaati but Queelag is my new lore MVP I was always annoyed by nerds doing super literal analysis of timelines or IS MELINA the DUSK EYED QUEEN type poo poo She's the first loretuber to categorically state how that poo poo don't matter and focus on the literary/thematic analysis and her analysis is so much better thanks to it also she just knows an insane amount about the game i watched a recent video and she casually points out the ghost candle trees are linked to the haligtree because the actual physical versions are only found there. drat you really know your poo poo lady
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 20:19
|
|
|
Needed an incant for crystallians but forgot how many deathroot you need for Stone of Gurranq, so I busted out the crucible horns instead and folks - it's very fun and very effective. If it's a window where you could use Stand Off (also quite amazing and underrated) or Unsheathe, you can almost certainly should check them as well, if it's a longer window it's even better charged. Discus of Light spam either totally chumps a boss or does absolutely nothing, but my quest to not just use Lightning Strike all the time continues. RIP Renalla, felled by a thousand discs of light and a Tarnished that won't stop running sideways. Whirl is better than Surge by a country mile and is quite good on its own, but it being multi-hit does it no favors so early in the game. Still good for area denial. I want to like Catch Flame for its ridiculous DPS but I'm just not built to trade hits and if I'm not trading I have better medium distance options.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 20:27
|
|
|
I wanna make an archer for the dlc. How hosed am I?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 21:21
|
|
|
Fuckin bored!!! Hahaha jk except not really
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 21:25
|
|
|
I am picking this back up after a year. I am soul level 75 and im in some caelid hell hole. Should I restart. Did the many patches add big changes?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 21:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:10 |
|
|
euphronius posted:I am picking this back up after a year. I am soul level 75 and im in some caelid hell hole. Should I restart. Did the many patches add big changes? Probably, but you'll shake the rust off fairly quickly, and yes a lot of stuff has changed. If you quit after getting you face pushed through the back of your head over and over by Radahn the good news is he's been nerfed a lot.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2023 21:51
|
|