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nine-gear crow posted:Ah, I see. Last I'd heard the situation was "extremely hosed" and the only people who were saying it wasn't were on Norfolk Southern's payroll, so if actual independent experts are saying it's not as bad as that, that's modestly encouraging. Just as one example, nine-gear crow posted:the fact that every breath they take and every drop of water they bathe in and drink is now filled with carcinogens that will kill them and their kids in a decade East Palestine gets its water from wells, not surface water. The water people drink and bathe in is untouched by the spill and it will be several decades before anything can percolate down into the aquifer. Also, EPA has done pretty thorough air monitoring including going house by house and haven't detected anything of concern. Doesn't mean there won't be issues, but "every breath of air and every drop of water" is uh, pretty sensationalized. It's a significant disaster but there's a lot of hyperbole buzzing around it.
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Mar 2, 2023 04:03
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Fritz the Horse posted:Just as one example, Not only is it sensationalized, but the only thing that exaggerating the situation does is ruin the lives of the people there. Even if the area was all clear a decade later, it will always be "the place where all those chemicals spilled and I can't ever visit or buy crops from there." I think the anxiety that people have been inducing in the residents is likelier to cause them health problems that the actual water and air.
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Mar 2, 2023 04:13
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Re: fact-checking MTG, ol' Joey B did his "hey check out this absolute moron" routine with it which seems to be the best way to handle this kind of situation https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1631084010918105088?s=46&t=TrVj_mTdVSp21wkwxVioug
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Mar 2, 2023 04:26
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Epic High Five posted:DeSantis will crush Trump if he's smart enough to just not do debates and stuff and keeps pitching Fascism for Moderates, Don't Think Too Hard About It and maybe gets a speaking coach, but if he was gonna do the latter he would've by now, and the former may work but Trump's going to make the strategy about as hard as it can possibly be because doing PR stunt rallies and grifting obscene amounts of money was absolutely his favorite part of being and becoming President DeSantis would have to start pitching that in the first place to "keep" pitching that. He's an Openly Throw Red Meat to the Fascists, Look At Me Owning the Libs Look At Meeee! guy, and that's the mainstream media coverage he's getting. Without the camera-savvy charm, willingness to tell five different stories to three different crowds, utter lack of record in office, and friendly media that got 2016 moderates to decide that Trump was just playing for the base and would govern from the middle. And that's before how if he wants to beat Trump in the primary, he's going to have to win over at least some of the people who are tired of pretending the cruelty isn't the point.
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Mar 2, 2023 04:51
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If DeSantis keeps distancing himself from Trump, he'll not struggle for fawning media coverage, and that's all it will take to get moderates on board. Nothing else he is doing is beyond the pale to people whose primary objection to Trump was his boorishness, or out of step with mainline conservative thinking. Anybody who now fondly remembers Dubbya or Reagan as a result of Trump is still in line for a wallet inspection and they're the demo both parties court hardest. Everything hes doing now is going to be part of a broader narrative that he got stuff done, got what he wanted, and something about Florida prospering as a result of lockdown flouting and handout graft.
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Mar 2, 2023 05:01
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selec posted:Not trolling, please engage in good faith. Just so we are crystal clear here, the thing you are labeling as ideological gatekeeping, and cheerleading as "just smart politics" is a journalist being told to gently caress off after reaching out to a politician about a statement that is obviously false on its face. You then go on to criticize journalists as a whole for not holding politicians accountable in the same paragraph. I'm not sure how you walk away with the perception that the journalist has lost his dignity here. The politician in this case has:
There's nothing undignified in being told to gently caress off by a fascist spokesman. If anything, it's a badge of honor. selec posted:Capital T truth is the man starving in the gutter across several administrations, not the guy revealing the man on the gutter has an untreated mental illness. One of those things is the material reality, the other is the quiet endorsement of that reality. This is an argument that the objective truth doesn't matter, what actually matters is some capital T Truth, or greater good in your mind. I think this is the same worldview that MTG operates under: I believe she genuinely operates under the belief that she knows what is best, and what is actually true doesn't matter, because accomplishing her greater good, capital T Truth justifies saying things that aren't true in the present. It isn't particularly new, if you remember "truthiness" from the GWB days. My objection to this is that I don't trust people who believe they fully understand the Truth and will happily lie to my face in order to achieve it. Judgy Fucker posted:Harold isn't saying we shouldn't, he's saying we do. Describing something is not necessarily an endorsement. You do it by calling out lies, over and over, when they happen, with journalists who will actually call politicians on their bullshit instead of playing "both sides" games. People don't want to be knowingly lied to, so show them that is what's happening. Make the argument that we can have disagreements on ideology but can't operate on different sets of facts. The shitiest part of the Facebook/Twitter social media phenomenon is the creation of echo chambers where people never get called on their bullshit, and the underlying facts and assumptions that different groups base their worldviews on completely diverge. So when someone says something that isn't true, call them on it. I don't think it's hopeless. The pool of voters who elected Donald Trump chose not to re-elect him, electing a liar once does not make them forever unreachable.
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Mar 2, 2023 05:11
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cr0y posted:Federal charges start dropping and trump makes some devil's deal to endorse desantis in exchange for a pardon....to own the libs. I mean I have no doubt Republicans would try that deal, but "Desantis is statistically more likely to win than you are but he can't beat you in a primary, so you should drop out and endorse him to increase the odds that you get a pardon" doesn't seem like the kind of argument that would convince Donald J. Trump.
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Mar 2, 2023 05:12
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Youth Decay posted:Re: fact-checking MTG, ol' Joey B did his "hey check out this absolute moron" routine with it which seems to be the best way to handle this kind of situation Lmao Biden getting real comfortable tending to his barren field of fucks.
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Mar 2, 2023 05:13
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Epic High Five posted:If DeSantis keeps distancing himself from Trump, he'll not struggle for fawning media coverage, and that's all it will take to get moderates on board. Nothing else he is doing is beyond the pale to people whose primary objection to Trump was his boorishness, or out of step with mainline conservative thinking. Anybody who now fondly remembers Dubbya or Reagan as a result of Trump is still in line for a wallet inspection and they're the demo both parties court hardest. First, what way do you expect him to "distance himself from Trump" that isn't being even more openly fascist and focused on owning the libs over governing, especially without losing the diehard Trumpists who have a taste for that honesty? Second, when do you expect him to start? He might have been able to start that spin in 2021 but he's gone exactly the opposite direction. Third, at which point do you expect the media to reverse course on how they present him? Finally, how does he replicate the way Trump got constant cover for all his similar bullshit by ability to tear down fellow Republicans with a single rally to keep the others in line or evade accountability for his positions by having no political history? This really feels like the same kind of story as all the bold post-2016 predictions that Trump was gonna win moderates by outflanking the Democrats from the left all the dozens of times he didn't: self-assuring from a certain mindset, but based on nothing.
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Mar 2, 2023 05:33
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I have to believe that most Americans who aren’t already obsessive republicans regard all the red meat desantis throws out as weird and despicable. The right-wing culture bubble is pure gibberish to anyone not inside of it, although I guess despair is what pushes people into the wide end of the reactionary funnel, and there’s no shortage of that.
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Mar 2, 2023 05:50
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I hope the fight between Trump and Desantis tears the GOP in half and I think it's a pretty likely scenario too. But I think Trump having a big comeback and just being the defacto head of the GOP again is probably more likely.
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Mar 2, 2023 06:04
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I AM GRANDO posted:I have to believe that most Americans who aren’t already obsessive republicans regard all the red meat desantis throws out as weird and despicable. The right-wing culture bubble is pure gibberish to anyone not inside of it, although I guess despair is what pushes people into the wide end of the reactionary funnel, and there’s no shortage of that. Trump's biggest strength in 2016 was he we unknowable. He didn't have a political history so he could say whatever he wanted and you couldn't say "his voting history doesn't support that". Desantis does have that, so you're likely not gonna get a "Ronald the Dove" style thing with him.
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Mar 2, 2023 06:11
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I honestly dont expect he'd survive more than a few months, campaigning. He can't match his old pace.
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Mar 2, 2023 06:22
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Push El Burrito posted:Trump's biggest strength in 2016 was he we unknowable. He didn't have a political history so he could say whatever he wanted and you couldn't say "his voting history doesn't support that". Desantis does have that, so you're likely not gonna get a "Ronald the Dove" style thing with him. By contrast a bunch of the Donald the Dove people went for Tulsi Gabbard in 2020 for the same reason. There it was despite her hawkish as hell record, but on the other hand she'd spent years working to whitewash her bomb more Muslims than Obama could ever dream of attitude by establishing that she would never, ever utter the words "regime change." Also the sort of cred DeSantis has built on exactly zero red meat issues.
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Mar 2, 2023 06:31
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nine-gear crow posted:Ah, I see. Last I'd heard the situation was "extremely hosed" and the only people who were saying it wasn't were on Norfolk Southern's payroll, so if actual independent experts are saying it's not as bad as that, that's modestly encouraging. You should identify where you heard "extremely hosed", and you should probably stop using it as a source of information.
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Mar 2, 2023 07:02
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Not disagreeing with the many I think correct takes above, but you HAVE to listen to DeSantis actually talk/give a speech if you haven't already. I'm sure most goons have, but it's really shocking hearing him talk for the first time.
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Mar 2, 2023 07:29
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JosefStalinator posted:Not disagreeing with the many I think correct takes above, but you HAVE to listen to DeSantis actually talk/give a speech if you haven't already. I'm sure most goons have, but it's really shocking hearing him talk for the first time. I actually have never seen/heard him live. Got a good example to start with?
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Mar 2, 2023 08:02
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Discendo Vox posted:You should identify where you heard "extremely hosed", and you should probably stop using it as a source of information. This very thread? K. Got it.
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Mar 2, 2023 08:14
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In short I just don't see what DeSantis has to offer that Trump doesn't, let alone what makes him different from say, the parade of worthless hobgoblins that Trump entertainingly crushed in the 2016 GOP primaries. His resume matters against Trump about as much as Hillary's did.
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Mar 2, 2023 08:29
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Ghost Leviathan posted:In short I just don't see what DeSantis has to offer that Trump doesn't, let alone what makes him different from say, the parade of worthless hobgoblins that Trump entertainingly crushed in the 2016 GOP primaries. His resume matters against Trump about as much as Hillary's did. All DeSantis has is culture war and open fascism issues, and the former is a dud to anyone outside of the far far fringe of the US electorate, and the other is... still an open question because Trump also offers that and people love that poo poo when Trump sells it. He's a boring version of Trump who won't shut the gently caress up about how women, POC and LGBT+ people in Disney movies make him mad like he's some crusty comic book nerd with a 500k subscriber YouTube channel. Trump is going to mulch him like a woodchipper at their first direct confrontation the same way he ripped Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Chris Christie's balls off and played the drums with them on their heads in 2016 and the Republican voter base is gonna fall back in line with him because who the hell else are you gonna vote for? Sleepy Joe Biden? lol
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Mar 2, 2023 08:38
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nine-gear crow posted:This very thread? K. Got it. The thread's not the source. It's the user making the claim, and the sources they're mediating in making that claim. The thread has discussed at length how and why that claim is false.
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Mar 2, 2023 08:54
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nine-gear crow posted:All DeSantis has is culture war and open fascism issues, and the former is a dud to anyone outside of the far far fringe of the US electorate, and the other is... still an open question because Trump also offers that and people love that poo poo when Trump sells it. He's a boring version of Trump who won't shut the gently caress up about how women, POC and LGBT+ people in Disney movies make him mad like he's some crusty comic book nerd with a 500k subscriber YouTube channel. Trump is going to mulch him like a woodchipper at their first direct confrontation the same way he ripped Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, and Chris Christie's balls off and played the drums with them on their heads in 2016 and the Republican voter base is gonna fall back in line with him because who the hell else are you gonna vote for? Sleepy Joe Biden? lol Cruz came very close to beating Trump and Desantis is the same guy with the benefit of foresight, plus the moderate wing being probably desperate enough to line up behind him quickly. e: I don’t mean that the delegate count was particularly close, but I think if Rubio hadn’t completely melted down in NH and Cruz had done a bit better in SC then it could have been a real race. pencilhands fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 08:57
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How is DeSantis positioning himself to the right of Trump supposed to win over moderates? He's constantly in the news because of the fascist policies he's inflicting on Florida and completely lacks charisma of any kind. I highly doubt anyone will ever confuse DeSantis as a "compassionate conservative" when there is no shortage of examples of his cruelty.
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Mar 2, 2023 09:24
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Mustang posted:How is DeSantis positioning himself to the right of Trump supposed to win over moderates? He's constantly in the news because of the fascist policies he's inflicting on Florida and completely lacks charisma of any kind. I highly doubt anyone will ever confuse DeSantis as a "compassionate conservative" when there is no shortage of examples of his cruelty. Depressing turnout by working with RWM could let him pull it off. Keep in mind that these people don't believe in playing fair. Conservatives themselves will just parrot that he's a compassionate conservative to confuse low info voters too. People should be taking it a lot more seriously than they are. If either of these whack jobs win they've telegraphed very clearly that they intend to get as many LGBT people (especially trans people) killed as possible while rolling civil rights education and the restricting the general well being of both minority group's livelihood and future progress. For the sort of right wingers that are ride or die Republican at this point that's a slam dunk to ensure they'll get a vote. Given that, they just have to make sure that the other side doesn't vote, or if they do it doesn't count in terms of winning. Archonex fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 09:28
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Mustang posted:How is DeSantis positioning himself to the right of Trump supposed to win over moderates? He's constantly in the news because of the fascist policies he's inflicting on Florida and completely lacks charisma of any kind. I highly doubt anyone will ever confuse DeSantis as a "compassionate conservative" when there is no shortage of examples of his cruelty. He just comes off as more composed and seems less insane when contrasted with trump’s personal behavior, and the establishment thinks he will be easier to control so they run with it.
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Mar 2, 2023 09:33
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pencilhands posted:He just comes off as more composed and seems less insane when contrasted with trump’s personal behavior, and the establishment thinks he will be easier to control so they run with it. And yet he comes unglued faster than Trump when met with even minor resistance and has the charisma of an incredibly quiet fart and clams up when people gish gallop all over him, which Trump is going to do on a debate stage with gleefully dark aplomb.
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Mar 2, 2023 10:53
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nine-gear crow posted:This very thread? K. Got it. claims made in this thread should be treated the same as those made by any other group of yahoos jabbering on the Internet: with extreme skepticism
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Mar 2, 2023 11:19
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DeSantis isn't going to beat Trump. Trump has already proven to the minority of establishment Republicans motivated by money that he will support the only thing they care about - tax cuts being his only legislative achievement, really. As for literally every other Republican who is not a millionnaire - they're worthless failures of human potential where the only point is being cruel towards vulnerable groups they hate and triggering those who they can't personally hurt. Trump beats DeSantis in that every time no matter what the latter tries. I don't honestly know why this is even a debate. There are no "compassionate conservatives" or "moderate Republicans". There are open fascists and people who don't care about fascism if it makes them a buck. I can't help but to see the media conversation about this being yet another stage in the continuum of desperately trying to maintain the pretense that Republicans are not what they are.
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Mar 2, 2023 13:12
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DarkCrawler posted:DeSantis isn't going to beat Trump. Trump has already proven to the minority of establishment Republicans motivated by money that he will support the only thing they care about - tax cuts being his only legislative achievement, really. Basically how I feel. DeSantis's best chance is to hope the Angry Orange is carried away by a stroke or heart attack at this point. DeSantis would have to avoid getting in a debate with Trump and that's impossible to do while Trump still draws his breath. The same red-meat loving crowd that DeSantis is wooing by mortgaging Florida's future will drop his rear end if DeSantis is seen as too scared to face Trump. Likewise, once he's actually in the arena Trump will just verbally trample DeSantis until he's just as broken as Ted Cruz was in 2016. Not saying it's impossible, or even an exceedingly long shot: eventually Trump has to succumb to being a waddling tub of elderly lard but I just...do not see DeSantis having an actual presidential bid while Trump is able to belittle him for avoiding a debate like a coward. Of course we can see this because a) we're outside of DeSantis's personal bubble and b) we're dorks enough to pay attention to just how bad DeSantis's public presence is.
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Mar 2, 2023 13:37
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The idea of Desantis is what is popular among republicans, but the second he is on the national stage he will absolutely crumble. That isn't even considering his chances going head to head with Trump. He has negative charisma and lacks that "stares at an eclipse" quality that is required to sell his insanity.
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Mar 2, 2023 13:48
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At best, DeSantis is like the Republican equivalent of Buttigieg or Harris; certain demographics of... barely even voters, but particularly pundits, like the idea of a supposedly more traditional, accomplished, dignified establishment up-and-comer and are at best completely blind to their absolute void of charisma or ability to do or say anything other than parrot establishment line and brutalise people in the ways that the American political system is set up to do. If anything, a competitive primary absolutely boosts Trump's chances in 2024, as he'll have actual momentum from crushing the losers beneath his heel, rather than having to half-rear end a campaign after a catastrophic year and active pandemic that's energised opposition voters certainly more than the actual opposition candidate could be bothered to.
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Mar 2, 2023 13:58
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Dubar posted:The idea of Desantis is what is popular among republicans, but the second he is on the national stage he will absolutely crumble. That isn't even considering his chances going head to head with Trump. He has negative charisma and lacks that "stares at an eclipse" quality that is required to sell his insanity. nine-gear crow posted:And yet he comes unglued faster than Trump when met with even minor resistance and has the charisma of an incredibly quiet fart and clams up when people gish gallop all over him, which Trump is going to do on a debate stage with gleefully dark aplomb. All of this for sure. He seems more like a Rand Paul or Crenshaw type where some people somehow still see him as the future in this specific window of time but you'll see him get as much respect as them or JEB after a couple of interviews and any actual confrontation. And if it gets to the point where he and Trump are at a debate together or Trump zeroes in on making GBS threads on him full time he'll be out even faster. Ghost Leviathan posted:At best, DeSantis is like the Republican equivalent of Buttigieg or Harris; certain demographics of... barely even voters, but particularly pundits, like the idea of a supposedly more traditional, accomplished, dignified establishment up-and-comer and are at best completely blind to their absolute void of charisma or ability to do or say anything other than parrot establishment line and brutalise people in the ways that the American political system is set up to do. This too, all the news is going to be about how Trump is a winner and knocking all these other candidates out and the press will happily keep that momentum up for ratings. If it's just a few nobodies at 2% then Trump has to actually campaign on his record. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 15:02
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Epic High Five posted:If DeSantis keeps distancing himself from Trump, he'll not struggle for fawning media coverage, and that's all it will take to get moderates on board. Nothing else he is doing is beyond the pale to people whose primary objection to Trump was his boorishness, or out of step with mainline conservative thinking. Anybody who now fondly remembers Dubbya or Reagan as a result of Trump is still in line for a wallet inspection and they're the demo both parties court hardest. a.) the folks voting in a GOP primary see fawning media coverage as a negative. And some of the inevitable negative coverage will be that he didn't do enough in Florida (see: Meatball Ron). ii.) there are no moderates in the GOP, just shy fascists. 3.) Desantis actually has less charisma than Cruz, he has no chance in a GOP debate. It'll be like Chris Christie exploding Marco Rubio in 2016 and that not even taking into account the elephant in the room. D.) Desantis is gonna get smoked outside of the south, he reeks of evangelical bullshit that northerners (particularly New Englanders) cannot stand. Bellmaker fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 15:25
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Tennessee is the first state to actually implement a ban on dressing in drag in public instead of just talking about. https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1631262587043061760 Shot: quote:Tennessee is set to become the first state this year to enact legislation to restrict public drag show performances. Chaser: quote:In recent days, Lee has been accused of hypocrisy after an unidentified Reddit user posted a photo from a 1977 high school yearbook, which purports to show the future governor dressed in women’s clothing and a wig alongside female students dressed in men’s suits. https://twitter.com/chrisbrown2075/status/1629873642518749186
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Mar 2, 2023 15:34
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The only moral
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Mar 2, 2023 15:46
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DeadlyMuffin posted:You do it by calling out lies, over and over, when they happen, with journalists who will actually call politicians on their bullshit instead of playing "both sides" games. People don't want to be knowingly lied to, so show them that is what's happening. Make the argument that we can have disagreements on ideology but can't operate on different sets of facts. The shitiest part of the Facebook/Twitter social media phenomenon is the creation of echo chambers where people never get called on their bullshit, and the underlying facts and assumptions that different groups base their worldviews on completely diverge. So when someone says something that isn't true, call them on it. I know the conversation has moved on, but wanted to respond by reiterating what I attributed to Harold: describing is not endorsing. I'm not saying Dale was wrong or dumb to follow up on the comments, I'm just agreeing with Harold that as far as who those comments are supposed to be for, they don't care they're not true. They're never going to care. Dale and others should follow up for the reasons you mentioned, but for GOP primary voters the "we can't operate on different sets of facts" ship has long sailed, if it was ever even in port. Fact-checking is for the rest of us, not the people who sent MTG to Washington.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:04
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What a degenerate. I don't say that because he dressed in drag, but because he is a dumbass republican.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:12
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The World Obesity Federation has published a new report that will be presented to the United Nations and discussed later this week. It assesses that: - 51% of the world's population (entire population and not just adults) will be obese or overweight by 2035. - About 1/3 of adults have pre-diabetes. - Childhood obesity rates have more than doubled since the 1980's and could double again in the next 12 years. - Obesity is rising fastest among young people, lower and middle-income nations in Africa, and India. - Obesity-related illnesses are expected to cost $4 trillion per year (~3% of the entire planet's GDP) and be responsible for nearly 5.6 million deaths in 2035. - 0 out of 193 U.N. Member countries are on track to meet their goals to reduce obesity by 2025. - Even more concerning is not just that the number of overwigh and obese people has increased, but the level of obesity has increased. The percentage of people with "extreme obesity" or morbid obesity has increased 200% since 2010 and is expected to reach 300% (compared to 2010 figures) in 2030. https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1631309737844264960 quote:LONDON, March 2 (Reuters) - More than half of the world's population will be overweight or obese by 2035 without significant action, according to a new report. Link to the full report that will be presented to the U.N. this week: https://www.worldobesityday.org/assets/downloads/World_Obesity_Atlas_2023_Report.pdf
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Mar 2, 2023 16:37
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I really don't see what DeSantis has to offer in a head to head against Trump in a primary. The greater mass of the Republican base reveres Trump like a god. He has a spellbinding hold on them that four years of buffoonish embarrassment, constant lies, and endless broken promises completely failed to shake; if anything, they're more loyal to him now than they were before his covid policies killed tens of thousands of them. We're three years into the Biden presidency and he still has the base endlessly parroting the idea that the election was stolen from him. Why would any of them be enticed by DeSantis? In the best and most favorable possible light, he's a pale shadow of Trump. I'm not even convinced that the business types would necessarily break for DeSantis. Trump's sole notable legislative success in his entire presidency is signing one of the biggest tax breaks for the rich in history, which is exactly what they want. Who does that leave? Lincoln Project types? The remaining Never Trumpers?
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Mar 2, 2023 16:49
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Kanos posted:I really don't see what DeSantis has to offer in a head to head against Trump in a primary. The greater mass of the Republican base reveres Trump like a god. He has a spellbinding hold on them that four years of buffoonish embarrassment, constant lies, and endless broken promises completely failed to shake; if anything, they're more loyal to him now than they were before his covid policies killed tens of thousands of them. We're three years into the Biden presidency and he still has the base endlessly parroting the idea that the election was stolen from him. Why would any of them be enticed by DeSantis? In the best and most favorable possible light, he's a pale shadow of Trump.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:53
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