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My guess is that it's either bullshit, purposeful misinformation, or deconfliction and I don't know enough to say. Also below. https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1631645276506054656?t=SQLUatT0qY7Ewk0QoMqZsA&s=19 https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1631646207155027969?t=ovIMcYO1236wjl9PS1ckOA&s=19 Pine Cone Jones fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 14:26
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zone posted:https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1631572251924414464 Are they really defending a beachhead with a trench 50 ft from the waterline? At water level? Or is that a river crossing? Either way, I’d expect you’d be better off 200m back firing down on the beach and down at the tops of whatever they are using to move across the water to assault you but I’m certainly no expert on defensive emplacements. Also, it does look a little wide at the top and straight to be particularly effective against air bursting munitions. My recollection from the little defensive position training I had back in the day is you want to be narrower and deeper with more angles so you can squeeze down at the bottom during the barrage. Edit: on a rewatch maybe it’s just perspective that makes it look that close and they are up on a rise overlooking the beach? Murgos fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 14:30
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enigma74 posted:I heard it said somewhere that veteran troops can actually be worse on an offensive campaign, because they learn risk avoiding habits in battle. That's good for staying alive, but not good for your army's offensive campaign. He's saving the freshly trained people as much as possible for later so they may produce a Kharkiv 2.0 hopefully in the future. This is not true at all. One of the key things veteran troops learn is the best way to survive an assault is to be aggressive and decisive. A hallmark of green troops is bunching up on the first piece of available cover that makes them feel somewhat protected and not pushing forward. A good pop-culture example of this is the beach scene from Saving Private Ryan when Tom Hank's character is running around pushing people forward telling them they'd die if they don't keep moving. Nessus posted:So without this chobham armor business Abrams are just solid tanks and probably on par or better with anything Russia has, but not like Gundams? The biggest reason the Abrams are so good are their excellent imaging and stabilization systems partnered with high mobility. The Gulf War effectiveness was because they could roll in full tilt and wipe out Iraqi tanks before they even knew they were there. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 14:51
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Jarmak posted:The biggest reason the Abrams are so good are their excellent imaging and stabilization systems partnered with high mobility. The Gulf War effectiveness was because they could roll in full tilt and wipe out Iraqi tanks before they even knew they were there. It also helped that in most cases we could engage them well out of range of their main guns.
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Mar 3, 2023 14:53
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enigma74 posted:I heard it said somewhere that veteran troops can actually be worse on an offensive campaign, because they learn risk avoiding habits in battle. That's good for staying alive, but not good for your army's offensive campaign. He's saving the freshly trained people as much as possible for later so they may produce a Kharkiv 2.0 hopefully in the future. The TDF on the other hand are mostly only good for defensive, static postures. That they are inflicting maximum damage on the Russians (but also taking high casualties) is probably the best-case scenario given the choices available. Veteran troops are far more decisive in direct danger and advance significantly faster. Humans seek cover and shelter, and military training and veterancy is what teaches soldiers that pushing forward is how one survives better. This type of thinking needs a cite so we can go really rag on the source.
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Mar 3, 2023 14:55
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Murgos posted:Are they really defending a beachhead with a trench 50 ft from the waterline? At water level? Or is that a river crossing? It's going to be terrain dependent, you actually have to have line of sight on the beach. Standoff is ideal, but it's not going to help you if it means the enemy can safely land and set up shop without being opposed. CommieGIR posted:It also helped that in most cases we could engage them well out of range of their main guns. Well a huge part of that range advantage was the optics and stabilization of the gun, which isn't just about shooting on the move, it's what makes it crazy accurate from long distance.
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Mar 3, 2023 15:01
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Hope this is cool to post here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEmWE83P2LA It's a pretty straight forward and level headed video from The Tank Museum about tanks in the war as well as a general overview.
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Mar 3, 2023 15:01
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Pine Cone Jones posted:My guess is that it's either bullshit, purposeful misinformation, or deconfliction and I don't know enough to say. Also below. Zemledeliyes are nasty tools, and any one of them being taken off the board can only be good.
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Mar 3, 2023 15:03
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Murgos posted:Are they really defending a beachhead with a trench 50 ft from the waterline? At water level? Or is that a river crossing? I joked about trenches having trenches earlier but that wasn't actually far from a joke. Europe theater trenches in WWI started getting wild with the complexity. Zig zags to limit shrapnel, angles to redirect blasts, mini-trenches at the back side to safely catch bombs, fake air vents that were really just pipes to plop the grenade of invaders right back at the feet of the guy who tossed it, fake steel trees wheeled out in to no-man's-land in the middle of the night for observation and sniper perches. Wild.
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Mar 3, 2023 15:06
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Jarmak posted:The biggest reason the Abrams are so good are their excellent imaging and stabilization systems partnered with high mobility. The Gulf War effectiveness was because they could roll in full tilt and wipe out Iraqi tanks before they even knew they were there. Yep. Getting the first accurate shot in (either through being unseen before you fire, having faster/better fire control and crew, a more accurate gun, whatever) is always the better plan than having armor you hope is good enough to protect you. That's the fundamental idea of teamwork. Enable more hits on target first through a mix of scouting, suppression, obscuration, interlocking fires, etc. Not to trade 3 blows to the face in exchange for 1 and hope that it works out. There were dozens of cases in Iraq where even though the Abrams armor was good enough to preserve the tank overall, it either resulted in enough damage to pull the tank off the line for repairs or non-lethal injury to the crew or both.
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Mar 3, 2023 15:09
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enigma74 posted:I heard it said somewhere that veteran troops can actually be worse on an offensive campaign, because they learn risk avoiding habits in battle. That's good for staying alive, but not good for your army's offensive campaign. He's saving the freshly trained people as much as possible for later so they may produce a Kharkiv 2.0 hopefully in the future. The TDF on the other hand are mostly only good for defensive, static postures. That they are inflicting maximum damage on the Russians (but also taking high casualties) is probably the best-case scenario given the choices available. I won't repeat Vahakyla or Jarmak's points - because they're absolutely correct - but one of the easier ways to tell that Russian troops were poorly trained prior to the invasion was their consistent use of vehicles for cover by dismounts. From practically day one, we had constant ISR and ground video of entire squads of Russian soldiers walking closely alongside their APCs, especially when ambushed by Ukrainians. Under fire, they were huddling behind those vehicles as cover. 100% understandable human nature to try and use the big metal vehicle as cover between you and the person shooting at you, but it meant that whole squads were being taken out with a single UAV or rocket strike on that vehicle. Assaulting through the ambush would be a better response indicative of training, or even just dispersing so that a single explosion couldn't take out the whole squad/fireteam, and then trying to maneuver. Arc Light fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 15:10
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Arc Light posted:I won't repeat Vahakyla or Jarmak's points - because they're absolutely correct - but one of the easier ways to tell that Russian troops were poorly trained prior to the invasion was their consistent use of vehicles for cover by dismounts. From practically day one, we had constant ISR and ground video of entire squads of Russian soldiers walking closely alongside their APCs, especially when ambushed by Ukrainians. Under fire, they were huddling behind those vehicles as cover. 100% understandable human nature to try and use the big metal vehicle as cover between you and the person shooting at you, but it meant that whole squads were being taken out with a single UAV or rocket strike on that vehicle. Assaulting through the ambush would be a better response indicative of training, or even just dispersing so that a single explosion couldn't take out the whole squad/fireteam, and then trying to maneuver. Yeah, exactly this. Modern heavy weapons are terrifyingly powerful and nothing is going to save you from them except eliminating the enemy or pushing out of the kill box before one of them decides to target you. The best way to do that is to be aggressive and not make yourself an attractive target by bunching up to be some grenadier or gunner's sick multi-kill or trying to hide behind a high-priority target.
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Mar 3, 2023 15:26
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bird food bathtub posted:I joked about trenches having trenches earlier but that wasn't actually far from a joke. Europe theater trenches in WWI started getting wild with the complexity. Zig zags to limit shrapnel, angles to redirect blasts, mini-trenches at the back side to safely catch bombs, fake air vents that were really just pipes to plop the grenade of invaders right back at the feet of the guy who tossed it, fake steel trees wheeled out in to no-man's-land in the middle of the night for observation and sniper perches. As well as digging trenches/shafts under enemy trenches, filling them with explosives, and blowing them up.
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Mar 3, 2023 15:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI4geSvjmXE Two new intercepted phone calls were published.  just in case for descriptions of casualties. One details a failed attack near Vuhledar and the other concerns the situation near Kreminna.
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Mar 3, 2023 15:38
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Slugworth posted:Orange juche said I couldn't microwave my fish here, so I didn't have anything else to eat OJ is a big ol' meanie-bobeanie and makes a point of updating a very public "Flatmate-KPI" whiteboard with sunshine-/stormy-cloud stickers for everyone like a German or something. Nuke your fish to your hearts content. Power Khan posted:https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1631579597077721089?s=46&t=WJ8OmjT6p--pWpmDA9vYeg I think the progress of the Ringtausch has really flown under the radar hard. Getting allies to spring-clean their stock of hardware/ordnance that Ukraine is familiar with in exchange for Leopards, Marders, 4x4s / 8x8s, or unmothballing M113 parking lots with taxpayer funds to overhaul them was a hilariously-shrewd way to commit without actually "comitting" in terms of German "war-involvement" narrative, and simultaneously a complete mess in terms of communication and early implementation. It's also kinda funny to see how hard international pressure played into the development of support after the massive faceplants in the first months after the invasion. Germany went from "we cannot send more than x of <ordnance> because we need to maintain minimum operational readiness of our forces" to "lol nevermind, we're just sending literally all of our warehoused ammo because the rest of the world realized none of our poo poo is operational anyway  " A great example is the 155mm shipment for the PzH2000. Something around 10000 rounds were delivered by October (?) and it's currently close to 20000. i'd wager that - at the time of the second delivery of PzH2000 - this must have been close to three-quarters of the entire stock the Bundeswehr had. Same with the early-delivery of Stinger systems in March of 2022. The 500 systems delivered constituted roughly a third of all systems available, and they even tried to bolster it with moldy GDR-era Strela systems to make it seem less pathetic. The really painful thing is the Gepard ammunition. 32 overhauled Gepards were delivered, and Ukraine loves them, but there were a total of roughly 8000 rounds delivered by end of February. In terms of Bundeswehr stock, this was probably the entire stock available (ever since a strong shift to missile-based systems in the Bundeswehr around the early-to-mid-2000s, the Gepard was the system with the lowest amount of peacetime-operational training), and 8000 rounds is absolutely nothing when you consider the ammo-expenditure of Ukraine currently. What really needs to be seen is how well Germany handles the ramp-up of ammo-production for a mid-to-longterm continuous production capacity and output. Because politics and procurement-economics are still handling the war as a "transitory" issue, and until the people in charge greenlight cash for Rheinmetall/KMW/Diehl et al to expand their capacity instead of just running overtime-shifts, there is no way to sustain the numbers Ukraine needs. In addition to the procurement politics of the 100 billion in defense budget ("Hell yes, we get to have F35s by 2027"), this here is a significant portion of the problem: quote:Contrary to popular perception, Germany has delivered significant amounts of arms and equipment to Ukraine to aid the country in its fight against the Russian military. In fact, the volume of arms deliveries by Berlin exceeds that of every other country safe for the United States. Nonetheless, Germany has faced severe criticism and even mockery for its perceived lack of support to Ukraine and its ill-fated attempts to keep its relationship with Moscow intact. While ultimately positioning itself as a reliable partner of Ukraine, it can be argued that Berlin's communication to affirm its Ukraine stance and explain foreign policy goals has been nothing short of an unmitigated disaster. Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 15:57
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Is Germany doing it like this to avoid or minimize political blowback in German politics? My impression on why Macron kept hammering on the 'talk to Putin' button is because French voters expected him to make double dog sure that Putin had a diplomatic option even if he didn't take it.
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Mar 3, 2023 16:02
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Jarmak posted:It's going to be terrain dependent, you actually have to have line of sight on the beach. Standoff is ideal, but it's not going to help you if it means the enemy can safely land and set up shop without being opposed. Right, at first blush it looks like they are setting up a stones throw from the waterline with a long gradual slope behind them that looks like it has some decent terrain features that could be taken advantage of. If what you are actually seeing is a beach down below a steep drop and the beach is a further away then it's actually a worse position because the entire line under that drop is a dead zone invisible to the defenders.
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Mar 3, 2023 16:06
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tiaz posted:Every time I look at that loadout I imagine the operators sitting in just a sea of brass, cascading off of them anytime they move. It's as though they were trying to collect as many different cartridges as possible. Was the fire rate of 1x AC or AGL really not enough? They had to compensate because they couldn’t get a phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.
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Mar 3, 2023 16:48
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https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1631236382927585280?s=20 just an absolute teabag show
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Mar 3, 2023 17:10
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Jarmak posted:Yeah, exactly this. There was a video posted pretty early on in the war that showed a column on a raised highway getting lit up and everyone just bunches up behind cars or guard rails and I think many of us who saw it were yelling at our screens the entire time. I can't find it now, googling "Russian infantry makes wrong choice" has a lot of results.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:18
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Nessus posted:Is Germany doing it like this to avoid or minimize political blowback in German politics? My impression on why Macron kept hammering on the 'talk to Putin' button is because French voters expected him to make double dog sure that Putin had a diplomatic option even if he didn't take it. From an interview last year: https://www.rnd.de/politik/olaf-scholz-an-jungs-und-maedels-kanzler-interview-sorgt-fuer-unmut-VBSMMZEUMJEMZGBDNYCCNTNN24.html quote:Ganz klar ist, dass in so einer Situation sich immer wer zu Wort meldet und sagt: ‚Ich möchte, dass es in diese Richtung geht, und das ist Führung.‘ … Manchen von diesen Jungs und Mädels muss ich mal sagen: Weil ich nicht tue, was ihr wollt, deshalb führe ich. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 17:21
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Murgos posted:Are they really defending a beachhead with a trench 50 ft from the waterline? At water level? Or is that a river crossing? The tide there is measured in inches as opposed to feet like the pacific or Atlantic.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:35
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CainFortea posted:There was a video posted pretty early on in the war that showed a column on a raised highway getting lit up and everyone just bunches up behind cars or guard rails and I think many of us who saw it were yelling at our screens the entire time. Yeah that's pretty much every video I've seen, though I've mostly successfully avoided watching direct combat footage. The other thing that gets me is how often they seem to be riding their vehicles directly into contact. I wasn't a mech guy so I've never seen the inside of an IFV and maybe that changes things, but if we even suspected we were about to get in a fight we'd dismount and disperse and walk in front to screen. Every bit of footage I've seen has their infantry riding in, or hell on, their vehicles when poo poo pops off.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:37
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Kestral posted:What does an effective trench - and I suppose by extension, a trench network - actually look like / consist of in an environment like we're seeing in Ukraine? I'm constantly astonished that the kind of firepower that's being thrown around out there can be stopped at all by trenches, but it seems like they can if they're properly constructed? They all look alike to my uneducated eye, so I'm curious how you'd tell what's a cope-trench and what's an actually useful fortification. A couple feet of dirt is plenty capable of eating direct hits from any reasonable amount of firepower. The main difference between an effective trench and an ineffective trench (other than depth/stability, i.e. making sure you have enough dirt there and making sure it doesn't fall in on you) is how well they handle fire from above/the sides, which is basically a matter of how much they zigzag. The same trench walls that absorb frontal firepower also funnel blasts sideways if something lands directly in the trench, so you use frequent bends to ensure that those blasts don't have an unobstructed path down the trench (this also means that enemies don't have an unobstructed path to shoot down the trench if they happen to make it that far.)
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Mar 3, 2023 17:41
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RoyKeen posted:Hope this is cool to post here: The backroom storage area is a treasure trove of armour at Bovington, David's a bit of a big fish in a small pond but his knowledge is outstanding and when you get a chance to do an after hours back room tour it's a good experience.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:41
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Murgos posted:Are they really defending a beachhead with a trench 50 ft from the waterline? At water level? Or is that a river crossing? On the other hand you're tasked to build some trenches at the Crimean coast and spring is starting so you might want to enjoy a nice beach trench for the next 6 months. The Ukrainian marines might try a sea borne assault any time now.
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Mar 3, 2023 17:48
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CainFortea posted:There was a video posted pretty early on in the war that showed a column on a raised highway getting lit up and everyone just bunches up behind cars or guard rails and I think many of us who saw it were yelling at our screens the entire time. Now I'm just a civ, but how often should your APCs lose firefights to stationary display hardware in front of local VFA halls?
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Mar 3, 2023 17:53
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Hekk posted:Sounds like the GBS Ukraine thread is opening back up. There is going to be a single post here notifying folks and asking for feedback. I thought making GBS threads in inappropriate places was a soldiers solemn duty
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Mar 3, 2023 18:03
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Ukraine srsly seems to have a tendency to want to hang in a defensive position for a bit too long going back to Ilovaisk and Debaltseve. Wonder if we'll ever get a good idea if the last idk week or three of defending Severodonetsk / Lysychansk and Bakhmut were a good idea for Ukraine.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:07
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Nessus posted:Is Germany doing it like this to avoid or minimize political blowback in German politics? Short answer, no. Slightly-longer-answer: Germany wouldn't have been able to it much better in terms of actual hardware-support to Ukraine for the reasons I mentioned. Regarding the communication and early pussyfooting-around the issue, you're absolutely on the money, because going "oh, there's an actual shooting war going on in Ukraine? gently caress me, let's send some serous hardware there to gently caress up the invaders" wasn't an option for several reasons. The most practical reason was that a country that had painted itself on the international stage as the "most modern military in Europe" barely even had poo poo to send because it had (has) the shittiest operational readiness of all NATO countries, basically zero functional SUPER-MODERN hardware to send, and literally zero support-/parts-infrastructure to maintain anything they wanted to send. ...despite being a country whose entire military capability was measured in hardware exports (to countries that are super-definitely squeaky-clean, but that's a whole-rear end other discussion). Add to that the fact that Germany was just out of an election year with a new government early-2022, and you've got a good frame why the early political reaction and messaging was a complete clusterfuck Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 18:10
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karoshi posted:On the other hand you're tasked to build some trenches at the Crimean coast and spring is starting so you might want to enjoy a nice beach trench for the next 6 months. The Ukrainian marines might try a sea borne assault any time now.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:18
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Duzzy Funlop posted:Short answer, no.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:30
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Rybar International telegrams how to destroy the Bradley, Russian tanks and BMP-3's are superior on the battle field according to the video: https://www.veed.io/view/198609d2-b9e1-4f23-ade9-4c8a62b60f7c
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Mar 3, 2023 18:38
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Sashimi posted:To add to this, Perun in one of his videos also made a good point about why German support took so long. Germans are very reluctant to look like an aggressor state after the first half of the 20th century, so they had to follow and let other nations make the first move in terms of military support. Pretty much this. It also explains the dumb gambit Germany played by saying "We'll send Leopards (allow them to be sent from countries we sold them to) if 'murica sends Abrams". Cyrano did a pretty decent summary on why Germany was "being like that" right after the invasion if anyone that isn't aware of the history would like to read up: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3910801&pagenumber=737&perpage=40#post522784044
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Mar 3, 2023 18:40
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Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:Rybar International telegrams how to destroy the Bradley, Russian tanks and BMP-3's are superior on the battle field according to the video: https://www.veed.io/view/198609d2-b9e1-4f23-ade9-4c8a62b60f7c Well poo poo... cancel the training, its over
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Mar 3, 2023 18:43
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The Veteran comment comes from a previous post where someone shared the studies that it's a curve- it raises sharply with combat experience, but then drops off at combat exhaustion. You can prevent that by rotations, proper rest and recoup, and by taking those men out in small groups to form temporary Cadre to train new troops. The big thing with rest and recovery is it needs to be a holistic approach. You can't just yank them from the line and send them to Paris. Think of it like diving- you need decompression stops. The US Army hosed a lot of guys up on return because they make your weapon an external organ, then take it, and tell you not to wake up in cold sweats looking for your lifeline. The rest needs to be somewhat monitored. You should do it in organic groups- squads/platoon/company/etc. Returning them is the same. You don't drop them into an assault. I believe the French(?) after the 1917 mutiny developed an excellent (on paper) rotation system of front line/second line/rear/leave/rear/second line/front, that ran on a scheduled-ish rotation. The trick is keeping the edge they've developed- too much honing by placing them in combat constantly ruins the edge just as too much time in the sheath will.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:44
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Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:Rybar International telegrams how to destroy the Bradley, Russian tanks and BMP-3's are superior on the battle field according to the video: https://www.veed.io/view/198609d2-b9e1-4f23-ade9-4c8a62b60f7c I'm told they have a copy of top secret anti-Bradley training video The Pentagon Wars
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Mar 3, 2023 18:45
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Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:Rybar International telegrams how to destroy the Bradley, Russian tanks and BMP-3's are superior on the battle field according to the video: https://www.veed.io/view/198609d2-b9e1-4f23-ade9-4c8a62b60f7c Rybar copium is something else entirely. e: Here's some Khodakovsky copium thrown in for good measure; he says that (having realized it too late) that with all eyes on what's happening in Bakhmut the conditions for, and the reserves of men and equipment, for a new counteroffensive elsewhere, have already been set up by Ukraine, and that Russia is in danger of an even worse defeat than they sustained at Kharkiv and Kherson. https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1631711474241482753 zone fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Mar 3, 2023 |
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Mar 3, 2023 18:48
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Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:Rybar International telegrams how to destroy the Bradley, Russian tanks and BMP-3's are superior on the battle field according to the video: https://www.veed.io/view/198609d2-b9e1-4f23-ade9-4c8a62b60f7c I love that the tactics are "shoot the thing with guns until it stops moving." There's no real new information in there, some secret vulnerability.
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Mar 3, 2023 18:54
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Hypnobeard posted:I love that the tactics are "shoot the thing with guns until it stops moving." There's no real new information in there, some secret vulnerability. They did a very funny propaganda clip on their main news channel that was basically Leopard vs T-90M and the clip basically showed the T-90s getting a flawless victory and burning over half of the Leopards before they even got close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_ZPb0sBcLs
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Mar 3, 2023 19:00
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