NIN/Reznor/Ross/HEALTH/Associated Acts: We're in this together now

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > No Music Discussion > NIN/Reznor/Ross/HEALTH/Associated Acts: We're in this together now

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TOOT BOOT: May 25, 2010

Sir Lemming posted:

My assumption is that with some of those songs, he never came up with finished vocals, maybe just a scratch track lying around somewhere. After all, wasn't it lyrical writer's block that inspired him to do so many instrumentals in the first place?

If I had to guess which ones did have vocals I'd say The March and Was It Worth It? are two good candidates since they're a lot closer to fully realized songs than some of the others.

# ? Mar 3, 2023 08:45

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# ? May 8, 2024 15:45

This Is the Zodiac: Feb 4, 2003

All the previously-unreleased tracks on Deviations that have "(instrumental)" in the title had vocals at some point. That's "The March", "Not What It Seems Like", "Was It Worth It?", and "Can I Stay Here?".

# ? Mar 3, 2023 19:43

SUNKOS: Jun 4, 2016

Sir Lemming posted:

My assumption is that with some of those songs, he never came up with finished vocals, maybe just a scratch track lying around somewhere. After all, wasn't it lyrical writer's block that inspired him to do so many instrumentals in the first place?

There's this quote from Trent on the Wikipedia page:

quote:

The Fragile was an album based a lot in fear, because I was afraid as gently caress about what was happening to me ... That's why there aren't a lot of lyrics on that record. I couldn't loving think. An unimaginable amount of effort went into that record in a very unfocused way.

One thing I really like about The Fragile is how connected all the music is, even tracks that were released later, via motifs or repeated lyrics or even taking the same melody or chord progression and taking it into a different direction. It really holds it all together in a very interesting way. I listened to Things Falling Apart for the first time in eons not long ago and one of the "new" tracks (The Great Collapse) was a sort-of continuation of The Wretched. Reminded me that I really like Trent's style of playing guitar as well, and while he's a huge fan of synths it has me hoping that a future NIN album has him picking guitar up again since he has such a distinct style that doesn't get enough credit imo. I've been trying to add missing tracks that I like from various sources (especially Still) to The Fragile so that body of work is all connected and it's staggering just how much material there is, along with so many alternate versions of songs. It's even crazier when looking on the NIN wiki and seeing original track lists for The Fragile that seemed to aim for it being 17 tracks and not a double album.

Some other interesting info on there as well, such as Bob Ezrin talking about being called in to help arrange the track listing for the album, thinking it would only take a few days, but being there for weeks while Trent was still recording and mixing even more material which was clearly great, but he had no idea how to put it all together. Really impressive considering just how incredibly varied all the material actually is as well.

I also really liked learning this about the songwriting process and how some tracks came about, according to Alan Moulder:

quote:

I got involved pretty early on. Trent had one song written and about 15 demos. He also had about sixty 'bits,' varying from a riff or noise loop to a more evolved drum pattern with a bass or guitar line. We sorted through these and decided which ones to work on. Sometimes we combined drums from one piece with a guitar loop from another and a piano piece from another to make one new track.

We also started a lot of tracks from scratch. This is unusual as I am normally brought in at a later stage when the songs have been written. It was great to be involved from the 'blank canvas' stage. We would go through the tracks and pick one to work on. Then we'd spend a couple of days evolving that and messing around with the structure, adding new sections and instrumentation.

Because there was so much material to work on we never labored over anything, taking the attitude that if something wasn't happening, or we'd reached a block, we would move on to the next track. We wouldn't listen back to what we had done to the tracks for weeks. Because we had been working quickly and constantly moving on, listening back later to what we had done was always a surprise. We quite often had forgotten what we had done. Every time we listened back, we got excited, as it was always a lot better than we remembered. We would carry on doing that and some tracks would get eliminated as we went on until Trent had vocal ideas and lyrics. These songs would be completed and not listened to for a couple of weeks to see if the ideas stood the test of time. If we were happy, we would start to mix the song, adding and refining....even lengthening or changing the structure as we mixed.

As my time on the album spanned over 2 years, it is difficult to describe a typical day, since that varied as we progressed. At the beginning, though, there were different types of days depending on how Trent was feeling. At this stage a lot of time was spent writing and creating songs. Obviously it is impossible for anybody to be in songwriting mode every day without going stale. So, to keep creativity up and vary things a little, we would have 'Art Days,' as they were referred to. This would involve forgetting about being tied down to creating within the usual 'song' structure and Trent would do anything that his mood took. Good examples of some things that came out of that way of working was "La Mer" and "The Day The World Went Away".

Other days, if Trent didn't feel like writing, we would have 'Sound Creating' days. This could involve starting the day off with a shopping trip to a music shop. One time we decided to make unusual percussion tracks. We went and bought lots of percussion instruments; the stranger the better. Then back at the studio these were put in a room with other things such as boxes, road signs, trash cans, water bottles, spades and badly tuned drums. Trent would then hit whatever took his fancy and would make a rhythm out of it. We got lots of great rhythm tracks from this that songs were written on top of, for example "The Fragile" and "I'm Looking Forward To Joining You, Finally".

This Is the Zodiac posted:

All the previously-unreleased tracks on Deviations that have "(instrumental)" in the title had vocals at some point. That's "The March", "Not What It Seems Like", "Was It Worth It?", and "Can I Stay Here?".

It'll never happen because Trent is very clearly done with The Fragile after all the work put into those reissues but I'd love to hear 'Was It Worth It?" with vocals. Sounds like a good companion to The Big Come Down. Things Falling Apart seems like a missed opportunity in retrospect, we didn't need multiple Starfuckers remixes

# ? Mar 3, 2023 19:57

MIDWIFE CRISIS: Nov 5, 2008; Ta gueule, laisse-moi finir.

Starfuckers unironically owns and I personally needed those remixes, apologies to the rest of you

Here's another bad take, I think the best instrumental track from The Fragile is Pilgrimage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5wzTUzh1LM

# ? Mar 3, 2023 23:37

SUNKOS: Jun 4, 2016

I think for me it's just that Further Down the Spiral set the bar so high combined with there just being so much additional material for The Fragile that Things Falling Apart probably could have been a double album of remixes and outtakes itself.

Also Pilgrimage does own but Just Like You Imagined will forever be my favorite Fragile instrumental. Kinda surprised Leaving Hope didn't make it on there as the final track because it's so powerful and I've nothing against Ripe (With Decay) but Leaving Hope would have been a hell of a closer, especially given the themes of the album. I don't think it was written afterwards just because of Trent's comments about Adrift and at Peace being a companion piece to La Mer but I might be wrong.

I like Starfuckers too, and for everything Trent said about Perfect Drug and kind of disowning it, Starfuckers is very clearly a continuation and evolution of that style imo which I dig. I just thought the remixes were disappointing, but again that's me having high expectations because of Further Down the Spiral.

# ? Mar 4, 2023 04:36

PalaNIN: Sep 19, 2004; LRLRRRLLRRLRLRLRRLRLR

SUNKOS posted:

Also Pilgrimage does own but Just Like You Imagined will forever be my favorite Fragile instrumental. Kinda surprised Leaving Hope didn't make it on there as the final track because it's so powerful and I've nothing against Ripe (With Decay) but Leaving Hope would have been a hell of a closer, especially given the themes of the album. I don't think it was written afterwards just because of Trent's comments about Adrift and at Peace being a companion piece to La Mer but I might be wrong.

Everything from the Fragile era is ripe for reordering and reimagining and I've had a few similar thoughts re alternate opening/closing tracks on the album. I thought the Still tracks were distinct afterthoughts after TF was released and toured but now I'm imagining all the different ways you could pull together a 6-track playlist of TF/AATCHB tracks to portray a certain theme or emotion and drat that'd actually be a really fun competition to have with NIN fans.

# ? Mar 4, 2023 05:39

Quote-Unquote: Oct 22, 2002

Still waiting on The Fragile 5.1

The official Downward Spiral and With Teeth mixes are great, and the fan made Year Zero, Ghosts and The Slip ones are very good too.

# ? Mar 4, 2023 16:16

SUNKOS: Jun 4, 2016

PalaNIN posted:

Everything from the Fragile era is ripe for reordering and reimagining and I've had a few similar thoughts re alternate opening/closing tracks on the album. I thought the Still tracks were distinct afterthoughts after TF was released and toured but now I'm imagining all the different ways you could pull together a 6-track playlist of TF/AATCHB tracks to portray a certain theme or emotion and drat that'd actually be a really fun competition to have with NIN fans.

My NIN sin is thinking Deep is a banger (that brutal synth sound is so good and I love the distorted wah guitar) and I've added that to my Fragile playlist too. Seems to fit well between 10 Miles High and Please :v:

Agreed about the era in general though, Trent could have gone in any direction and he chose all of them. Sad circumstances aside, I still find it wild that Le Mer was the first track written when you consider the last NIN album was TDS and the last single was The Perfect Drug. Speaking of, I've always wondered why Trent didn't just go with French for the lyrics, but Creole French specifically.

Was poking around some other Fragile-related information since I was curious about Mike Garson performing piano on 3 of the tracks (Just Like You Imagined, The Way Out Is Through & Ripe With Decay) and apparently he actually played on 15 tracks and the others haven't been released:

quote:

On the Fragile album I actually played on 15 tracks, I wish he�d release those sometime as instrumental, because the piano playing on the tracks he had me play on was phenomenal, but he only used three. I asked him why, and he said that they were, from his point, so Bowie-influenced, which means they were so Mike Garson in style, because I had the style before I played with Bowie, but he said it�s so connected with Bowie that it takes away from his individuality, so he thinks it�s a liability to him. I said that I respect his viewpoint, but I�m pissed off because I�d worked so hard, I went to New Orleans and did all these tracks and he loved them.

I wonder what Adrian Belew could share if asked? He's always seemed like an unofficial NIN member since he's been in the studio for recordings as far back as TDS and had a particularly big presence on Ghosts I-IV & Hesitation Marks.

# ? Mar 5, 2023 02:18

MassRafTer: May 26, 2001; BAEST MODE!!!

Quote-Unquote posted:

Still waiting on The Fragile 5.1

The official Downward Spiral and With Teeth mixes are great, and the fan made Year Zero, Ghosts and The Slip ones are very good too.

Year Zero Remixed is one of my favorite remix albums, Capital G is way too much fun.

# ? Mar 5, 2023 05:59

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

Today's the 10th birthday of How to Destroy Angels' Welcome Oblivion :eyepop:

I'm listening to it again now and it's still a hell of an album. Criminally underrated, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sUTVT7HzSg

# ? Mar 5, 2023 22:14

a cyborg mug: Mar 8, 2010

�How long?� is what I ask when I listen to it and it keeps going for 20 minutes after We Fade Away, which would have been a decent ending for the album

It�s a cool album and I kinda wish there�ll be a continuation to it somewhere down the line, but I seriously do not remember a single moment of it after We Fade Away. Strings and Attractors is the absolute highlight of the album for me and everything that comes after is increasingly more forgettable after that.

Some great stuff on there otherwise, will throw it on during the ol� commute tomorrow

# ? Mar 5, 2023 22:50

Sir Lemming: Jan 27, 2009; It's a piece of JUNK!

a cyborg mug posted:

”How long?” is what I ask when I listen to it and it keeps going for 20 minutes after We Fade Away, which would have been a decent ending for the album

And don't forget, the vinyl version is even longer!

It's neat that they also included a CD in the sleeve with the bonus tracks and slightly different order. Though I'll admit I did forget about it until just now.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 01:55

graynull: Dec 2, 2005; Did I misread all the signs?

It may sound crazy but I was listening to "Sweetest Taboo" by Sade and I suddenly wanted a haunting HTDA cover of it. Outside of new material a cover album would be slick.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 02:19

CornHolio: May 20, 2001; Toilet Rascal

PalaNIN posted:

Everything from the Fragile era is ripe for reordering and reimagining and I've had a few similar thoughts re alternate opening/closing tracks on the album. I thought the Still tracks were distinct afterthoughts after TF was released and toured but now I'm imagining all the different ways you could pull together a 6-track playlist of TF/AATCHB tracks to portray a certain theme or emotion and drat that'd actually be a really fun competition to have with NIN fans.

I love The Fragile. I love Deviations. Out of that massive amount of work, though, I think And All That Could Have Been is my favorite NIN song of all time. I know I'm not the only one to think this - you'd think it's a deep cut, but it seems to be a lot of people's single favorite song of theirs.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:05

The REAL Goobusters: Apr 25, 2008

CornHolio posted:

I love The Fragile. I love Deviations. Out of that massive amount of work, though, I think And All That Could Have Been is my favorite NIN song of all time. I know I'm not the only one to think this - you'd think it's a deep cut, but it seems to be a lot of people's single favorite song of theirs.

I mean it is a deep cut. But its a favorite among the fans for a reason. Its so good!

# ? Mar 6, 2023 17:05

Vegastar: Jan 2, 2005; Tigers will do anything for a tuna sandwich.

Still as a whole is just a thing I wish there was a lot more of. As close as you could get to calling a NIN performance acoustic.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 00:21

I, Butthole: Jun 30, 2007; Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT

Vegastar posted:

Still as a whole is just a thing I wish there was a lot more of. As close as you could get to calling a NIN performance acoustic.

When The Gift audio recordings released I think the Ghosts suite including Piggy was my most played from the whole concert, which was impressive as the whole show was just wall to wall bangers.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 02:56

MIDWIFE CRISIS: Nov 5, 2008; Ta gueule, laisse-moi finir.

Amazing

# ? Mar 8, 2023 18:40

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

MIDWIFE CRISIS posted:

Amazing

Here's the Even It Out video ( :nws:

)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aozqSrIBpEs

And here's North, the other song Trent and Atticus co-produced for the album and my personal favorite of the 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGeN3l2W_KA

# ? Mar 10, 2023 19:19

SUNKOS: Jun 4, 2016

Fever Ray never misses and a collaboration with Trent & Atticus is a pleasant surprise but I am so ready for new NIN material. Feels like they've been doing soundtrack work and collaborations forever at this point and Hesitation Marks is nearly 10 years old :stare:

# ? Mar 10, 2023 20:06

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

SUNKOS posted:

Fever Ray never misses and a collaboration with Trent & Atticus is a pleasant surprise but I am so ready for new NIN material. Feels like they've been doing soundtrack work and collaborations forever at this point and Hesitation Marks is nearly 10 years old

Bad Witch turns 5 in June, too. The last full NIN albums we got were the two new Ghosts volumes in 2020. Since then, it's been collaborations like Halsey, HEALTH, Fever Ray, etc.

# ? Mar 10, 2023 20:19

The REAL Goobusters: Apr 25, 2008

This Zacharias kid is goin down

# ? Mar 11, 2023 00:02

Bonk: Aug 4, 2002; Douche Baggins

Sir Lemming posted:

My assumption is that with some of those songs, he never came up with finished vocals, maybe just a scratch track lying around somewhere. After all, wasn't it lyrical writer's block that inspired him to do so many instrumentals in the first place?

He talked about it at the NIN/JA tour show I went to, just before playing La Mer:

"About 10 years ago or so I locked myself away in a house on the ocean, and I tried to� I said I was trying to write music, some of which wound up on The Fragile. But what I was really doing was trying to kill myself. And the whole time I was away by myself, I managed to write one song, which is this song. So when I play it I feel pretty weird about it, because it takes me back to a pretty dark and awful time in my life. It's weird to think how different things are now. I'm still alive, I haven't died yet. And I'm afraid to go back to that place because it feels kind of haunted to me, but I'm going to go back, and I'm going to get married there."

So a lot of that writer's block stemmed from pretty deep depression, and the substance abuse issues he had at the time. Then after that I guess he suddenly decided to get super jacked.

# ? Mar 15, 2023 21:29

Good Soldier Svejk: Jul 5, 2010

Addiction must be replaced with a new vice. Trent replaced smack with heavy steel. And good on the man he looks great for his age

# ? Mar 15, 2023 22:30

MIDWIFE CRISIS: Nov 5, 2008; Ta gueule, laisse-moi finir.

He's been on both ends of the twink/jock spectrum

But how did it affect the music :crossarms:

# ? Mar 17, 2023 00:04

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

Trent and Atticus remixed a Puscifer song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seebj0-O5Z0

# ? Mar 30, 2023 17:11

hatelull: Oct 29, 2004

e: Wrong thread.

hatelull fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Mar 31, 2023

# ? Mar 30, 2023 22:07

The REAL Goobusters: Apr 25, 2008

hatelull posted:

Wrong thread?

# ? Mar 31, 2023 16:47

hatelull: Oct 29, 2004

The REAL Goobusters posted:

Wrong thread?

For sure. I was wondering why I didn't see it in the stupid pumpkins thread. Thanks! Gonna fix that right now.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 16:49

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpdYMWsjvrS/?fbclid=IwAR0um0fqPBK7ndc9ITOEn_WoLivdCiIP07L9iskKPoaiEzyKNXaDcc3d0xM

This would be pretty awesome to hear at a wedding. I've been to a wedding where string quartet versions of Radiohead songs were played and that ruled, but I've yet to go a wedding where NIN is played.

# ? Mar 31, 2023 19:45

Island Nation: Jun 20, 2006; Trust No One

Rageaholic posted:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpdYMWsjvrS/?fbclid=IwAR0um0fqPBK7ndc9ITOEn_WoLivdCiIP07L9iskKPoaiEzyKNXaDcc3d0xM

This would be pretty awesome to hear at a wedding. I've been to a wedding where string quartet versions of Radiohead songs were played and that ruled, but I've yet to go a wedding where NIN is played.

Does Old Town Road count?

# ? Apr 1, 2023 04:16

Good Soldier Svejk: Jul 5, 2010

It needs the Mike Garson run from Just Like You Imagined snuck in somewhere but otherwise that's lovely
fella is talented as hell

# ? Apr 1, 2023 14:36

SUNKOS: Jun 4, 2016

Rageaholic posted:

Bad Witch turns 5 in June, too. The last full NIN albums we got were the two new Ghosts volumes in 2020. Since then, it's been collaborations like Halsey, HEALTH, Fever Ray, etc.

I've been going through and rearranging my NIN library (best part about music going digital imo) and it came time to finally give those three EPs a proper listen to see what I want to add and holy poo poo, 'This Isn't The Place' is utterly heartbreaking and easily up there as one of the most emotionally affecting pieces of music he has ever written. The music itself and every single sound is so perfect, but the way Trent's voice cracks and breaks loving hits

A nice refresher after how clean the production of Hesitation Marks was as well. Enjoying Trent's vocal experimentation alongside the sax as well.

# ? Apr 17, 2023 18:33

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

SUNKOS posted:

I've been going through and rearranging my NIN library (best part about music going digital imo) and it came time to finally give those three EPs a proper listen to see what I want to add and holy poo poo, 'This Isn't The Place' is utterly heartbreaking and easily up there as one of the most emotionally affecting pieces of music he has ever written. The music itself and every single sound is so perfect, but the way Trent's voice cracks and breaks loving hits

A nice refresher after how clean the production of Hesitation Marks was as well. Enjoying Trent's vocal experimentation alongside the sax as well.

Different song, but if you're just getting around to listening to Add Violence, Trent and Atticus were on Song Exploder breaking down The Lovers back when that EP came out