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Franco Caution posted:That config in the X3M40i is 382hp, and having driven that a few times, I think BMW is being conservative and under reporting that number. Franco Caution posted:X3m40i is i believe 61k before options. It was 59k last year, but they just had to raise prices to stay alive. The CX90 is a substantially larger 3-row SUV. The comparable BMW is the X5 xDrive40i which starts at 64k and claims 335hp to the Mazda's 340hp. To spec it like-for-like with a maxed out CX90 it is more like 75k. The X5 M50i is on a different planet entirely starting at 85k. The CX90 turbo starts at 40k and maxes out at 60k. CX70 pricing is still TBD but if the CX90 starts at 40 I would expect it to start in the mid-high 30s with the turbo and maybe topping out in the low 50s. Like I get what you're saying, no one is actually expecting Mazda to be as refined as the Germans. But it is substantially cheaper to purchase and probably to maintain too. If you think the BMW or Mercedes is worth 15-20k more then by all means go for it, but that's a stretch to call the same segment. Very few people are seriously cross shopping those. The new upmarket Mazdas seem more like Acura or Lexus than any of the Germans. Guinness fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 08:56
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Franco Caution posted:Me. It's me. I'm the ding dong who would do this. I don’t really get this, they’re not making an X3M competitor at all. The 60k top trim cx90 with 340hp is a weird segment but it’s competing with 75k x5 40xis and q7 55s. There will probably be some people who would rather save the 15-20k. I mean look at the telluride, the powertrain is pathetic. Most of the cx sales happen at the 40-50k range and will compete with pilots, highlanders, etc (all with sub 300hp).
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Mar 4, 2023 10:25
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Franco Caution posted:My issue is if I'm spending and getting into $60k range, I want the best in that range. Not something that's kind of feels like they tried their best, but cut corners and just ended up making a cheaper version. At that price range, I don't want close enough. The biggest reason it won't bite into the BMW/MB pie is that it isn't a BMW/MB. Brand cachet plays a huge role for lots of people when it comes to what brand of car they get. Also, what metric of "best in that range" are we talking about here?
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Mar 4, 2023 11:57
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To get the 340HP you gotta spec the Turbo S version which starts at 51K; the regular I6 turbo is only 280 HP. Mazda seems to be doing tune-gating; the lower-spec is on 87 and makes no mention of the boost with premium fuel, while the higher spec is premium only. The 2.5T can switch between regular/premium tunes, but the difference isn’t as stark (about 25 HP, and usually only over 4K RPM). I think 340HP is acceptable. The engine’s probably capable of more but to get more they’d probably have to spec more aggressive intake/exhaust and it’d probably make fuel economy even worse.
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Mar 4, 2023 13:54
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Chrysler has a 420hp I6 right now. Go buy a $92k Jeep.
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Mar 4, 2023 14:41
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Throatwarbler posted:Chrysler has a 420hp I6 right now. Go buy a $92k Jeep. Can you get the Hurricane in anything other then the Wagoneer right now?
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Mar 4, 2023 15:27
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Sure, german cars are nice. But if i had to do it all over again, i’ll take a mazda that only needs a yearly oil change than this thing that went through 3 recalls, a broken 48v alternator, and broken backseat latch in the 2 years i’ve owned it. Definitely got scammed by all the ppl who say german cars are reliable as long as you keep up the maintenance…
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Mar 4, 2023 16:18
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I’ve often found myself wondering if there’s an actual difference between an M340i and say a Genesis G70. For decades now car review companies hype up Japanese and Korean cars as worthy competitors to some German equivalent like a C-Class or 3 series only to consistently footnote at the end that these upstarts still aren’t a bmw. How much of this is actual brand related bullshit vs a genuine difference in quality. I drove an S4 and a 328 and other than a few nice touches in the interiors I can’t really say they’re any better than a similarly equipped vehicle from a non German manufacturer. What am I missing? What besides brand cachet is there really that makes these cars so much “better”? I think with how good/homogenized cars are getting that the extra 20k you pay for some German vehicle doesn’t give enough benefit to be worth the price especially if you aren’t pushing the car to the limits of its performance. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 16:27
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MeruFM posted:Sure, german cars are nice. But if i had to do it all over again, i’ll take a mazda that only needs a yearly oil change than this thing that went through 3 recalls, a broken 48v alternator, and broken backseat latch in the 2 years i’ve owned it. It's not a given that this Mazda is reliable, it's a completely brand new platform with its own new 48V electronics system to break.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:28
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Kraftwerk posted:What am I missing? What besides brand cachet is there really that makes these cars so much “better”? Nothing. We owned two used LS's (a 430 and 460) and they were just as good if not better than any German equivalent with actual reliability built in. Something like a used 8 series would have made us car poor and wouldn't have been any better in terms of how it drove, fit and finish, etc.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:34
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Applebees Appetizer posted:Nothing. We owned two used LS's (a 430 and 460) and they were just as good if not better than any German equivalent with actual reliability built in. I thought so! The brand and display of status is all there is unless you want performance that isn’t available for an equivalent.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:48
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Kraftwerk posted:
The S4 with sport diff handles better than any FWD car, but if Honda put SH-AWD in the Accord, they could have sold me one. I'm likely to switch to a crossover for my next car (with storms and roads getting worse, I crave more ground clearance) and I'm fairly sure I'm not getting another German car.
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Mar 4, 2023 17:02
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Kraftwerk posted:I’ve often found myself wondering if there’s an actual difference between an M340i and say a Genesis G37. You mean the G70? Or an Infinit G37? From what I hear the Genesis are quite nice, but just aren't sporty like you might want, especially not compared to a M340i
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Mar 4, 2023 17:13
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Yeah I meant to say the G70. The Germans have the best performance in the compact AWD sports sedan bracket for sure. I just don’t think it’s always worth it for the extreme expense it takes to have one. I put crazy miles on every vehicle I’ve ever owned. I buy my cars to drive them so I came to the realization it needs to work and be efficient more than it needs to perform and be fast. It’s why I’ve been really into Toyotas lately. Most luxury car owners seem to worry a lot about how many miles they’re putting in their cars. I’ve seen friends buy performance cars as their only vehicle and then bail out on meeting me at a restaurant or something because they don’t want to drive there. I have no such limitations because my vehicle doesn’t cost as much to drive and the maintenance required is negligible. Kraftwerk fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 17:25
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If they're leasing and have a mileage limit then I guess I can see that, but yea otherwise gently caress off and drive your cars nerds  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLvuNiRjO4Q Throttle House did a quick review on the 3.3T recentlyish when it got a face lift (as well as their original review on the older style). They claim it's "more engaging" than the M340i but admit that the BMW is faster, especially at higher speeds. Although I find it odd that the tagline for the video is "Kia Stinger In A Tuxedo" because I thought I recall hearing the electronics being really frustrating in the Stinger, making it nowhere near as fun to drive as the specs would suggest. Just specc'd em both out, G70 is significantly cheaper and IMO looks much better. Would want to drive them both but I'd lean towards the Genesis, although I'm kinda an Underdog guy [hence my avatar lol] Sab669 fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 17:44
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Maybe I’m just a cranky old guy now but I’ve come to realize most auto review stuff you can get for free online doesn’t offer much information of substance unless the reviewers notice glaringly obvious flaws. Everyone talks about “engaging drives” like that means something. But the criteria isn’t defined specifically. I’m starting to wonder if a lot of these groups like throttle house are actually just a cheap way for car manufacturers to promote their product via viral methods like social media and YouTube rather than more expensive official marketing agencies. Basically they’re just outsourcing their marketing to open source methods so the reviewers can’t tell you the truth or their source of content will be revoked and they wont get access to vehicles anymore.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:01
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to be fair most of the BMW mXXXi models do have notable performance advantages over the competition, at least on paper I do think a lot of that just has to do with the Germans mastering the art of launch control. I went from a 2019 S3 to a 22 G70, and despite being a tiny bit faster on paper, and noticeably more powerful when you get into the 60+mph range, it simply will not put all of its power down from a stop and do a "holy poo poo" launch like an AWD German car (this can apparently be fixed by snipping the wire that tells the ECU you're holding the brake but... not gonna do that) I will say that going from an S3 to a G70, overall the interior is a bit nicer, though probably due to being up a class and more comparable to an S4. the S3 however was a bit more solid feeling, a bit less creaky, and had really nice tactile clicky buttons. I think the German cars do have a lot of nice little touches that aren't actually important but make it feel just slightly more premium, if you care about that stuff of course a lot of that went out the window when BMW/Mercedes moved to touchscreen controls for everything 
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Mar 4, 2023 18:01
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Kraftwerk posted:Maybe I’m just a cranky old guy now but I’ve come to realize most auto review stuff you can get for free online doesn’t offer much information of substance unless the reviewers notice glaringly obvious flaws. That's why I like Savagegeese, he doesn't pull any punches, if it's crap he'll say it's crap.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:04
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Kraftwerk posted:Maybe I’m just a cranky old guy now but I’ve come to realize most auto review stuff you can get for free online doesn’t offer much information of substance unless the reviewers notice glaringly obvious flaws. That's fair, the video was lacking a little bit more substance than I expected it to, perhaps because it's on their secondary channel and they had already done a "primary" review some years back. I feel like usually TH is pretty good. But yea most stuff I had seen, or at least of the Stinger, kind of reminded me of the Mazda 3 turbo. Yea it's got AWD and pretty good power, but those two things alone don't necessarily make it a sporty vehicle.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:13
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Applebees Appetizer posted:That's why I like Savagegeese, he doesn't pull any punches, if it's crap he'll say it's crap. He and Jack pay for that though. They are like the last on the list to get review cars, and Im guessing that is why. Still love them though. By far my favorite review channel. I really liked in the recent MDX video where Mark pointed out that the MDX made him have a bit of buyers remorse on his X7, and how the ventilated and massage seats in the X7 sucked in the comparison to this MDX. No one has mentioned this. Magazines, Reviews, everywhere. They only mention a car has features, but never really go into comparisons on if those features are actually good, or work as well as those in comparable vehicles. I want to know things like if Im buying a 2-4K optional audio package, how it stacks up against other systems.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:16
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I just want to say that I think it's insane that people are complaining 340 horsepower is not enough in an automobile that will be primarily used for running errands and commuting to work
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Mar 4, 2023 18:34
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My mom and dad and us kids did fine with a 1990 Plymouth Voyager and the biggest engine you could get in that was 150hp, which I'm positive they didn't get, so it was probably closer to 100. Hell, honestly just bring back that first generation Voyager with added airbags and side impact beams and I'd drive the hell out of it
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Mar 4, 2023 18:37
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Sagebrush posted:I just want to say that I think it's insane that people are complaining 340 horsepower is not enough in an automobile that will be primarily used for running errands and commuting to work I suppose it depends on how heavy the car is, but 350/350 felt right on the cusp of "too much for the street" in my Focus RS. You could hardly stay on it before going way too much over the limit.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:51
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Sab669 posted:If they're leasing and have a mileage limit then I guess I can see that, but yea otherwise gently caress off and drive your cars nerds One thing to mention, which I ran into last year myself, is the dealership and brand network experience. Genesis in this regard is a loving joke. Its a joke brand run by clown dealerships and scam artist. Disagree if you must, but to me a GV70 in 3.5T Sport Prestige is supposed to be in the same league as the x3m40i. Priced out similar options wise, the Genesis will come in a bit cheaper. I think when I build them out at home, the Genesis was like 65K and the M40i was like 70k. 375 hp vs 382hp. First off, the actual test drive: Genesis: "We need you to fill out a few forms. Also I have to come with you. We normally dont let people even test drive this without a contract or intent to buy." BMW. "So here is the keys. If you think of anything you wanted to ask or cant figure out features wise, call me on my cell. Otherwise, I leave at 6PM, (it was 4PM at this point) knock yourself out and come find me before when you get back and are done. Go show your wife, see how it fits in you garage, do some highways and twists and turns. Try it out everywhere! Enjoy yourself and please dont rush! " And I want to say this again, the Genesis is a really nice car. Its far nicer than I expected once I got to drive it. But driving wise, for me, it just wasnt even close. There is this neat little area behind some of our dealerships where there is some straightaway, some climbs, some turns, and a series of connected roundabouts. Its awesome for testing out a car. The genesis just couldnt do what the BMW did in those areas. Not even close. I was able to go into the sharp turns and roundabouts at a way higher speed in the BMW. So as mentioned earlier the price. The genesis in every ad mentions how it does everything and more the competitors do, but also cheaper. Nope. Genesis: So every GV70 anywhere in the state is still at 10K Market Adjustment Value. And the one I drove also had like 4K in tacked on bullshit like clear bra, LoJack, floor mats, etc. so this 65K vehicle that undercuts the Germans, is now close to 80k. Even if someone could get the bullshit options off, with ADM, thats still 75K. Also I asked about ordering one as I didnt like the color combo of the GV70. "We dont do ordering. We get what we get." BMW: "We arent doing ADM. There could be wait times for crazy stuff like a M3 Comp, but we arent doing ADM. We also got rid of Dealer handling fees because people found them annoying. Sorry we only have this 1 car like this today. Honestly with covid, a lot of out customers kinda just liked the idea of coming in and ordering exactly what they wanted option wise, wait a few months, and it shows up." And then because I asked, he ran through the dealer ordering options as there his hidden secret poo poo on there that doesnt show up on the website, like drive recorder, and some carbon fiber poo poo you can order. So the GV70 is a nice car. but it doesnt top the German here. And certainly doesnt top it when its 5-10K more than the German. And then Post the test drive experience: Genesis: Sales dude still blows up my phone asking if I still am interested in a Genesis. I also got added to bullshit spam emails from the dealership, so I started getting info on used car sales, Presidents Day deals I cant walk away from, etc. BMW: like a month after we met up, the salesman called me. I had mentioned a couple different color combos I might like, but was it was hard to tell off a swatch of fabric in the dealership.And the dealerships still dont have enough in stock cars to be able to see a lot of it. For instance, BMW has a color called 'Sakhir Orange' which to me looked red in pics. I was worried it would be loving orange in person. Why he was calling after the fact was that he wanted to let me know a another customer had ordered a X3M Comp in one of my 2 color combinations, and it was going to be be getting detailed before being handed over to the new owner. He told me if I stopped by, I could see the 2 colors together in person. I totally did, its actually red, not orange, and it works really well with one of the exterior colors I liked. Potentil crisis averted. And then I left the dealership. He didnt try to lock me in a room with his manager trying to force me to order poo poo. He left it at "call me if and when you are ready." Just as a side note.... I had a similar experience when I went Porsche and tried a Macan, so Im going to say this wasnt a one time thing. Completely again night and say different experience from what I saw at Genesis. Anyone trying to compete with the luxury brands needs to get this part of the experience down better. Mazda will be better than Genesis, but it still has to get this part down. You cant just say "we are going upmarket" and not meet that experience.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:53
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Franco Caution posted:He and Jack pay for that though. They are like the last on the list to get review cars, and Im guessing that is why. They really liked the GR Corolla which is a good sign, hopefully Toyota keeps making more of them.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:55
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Yeah that’s fair about the Genesis dealership experience. It sucks. It’s moderately better in Canada. You can spec out a car online and order it online for no haggle pricing and there will be dedicated delivery centres for it. But the shopping experience still sucks. My experience with BMW dealers was they generally didn’t let you anywhere near any vehicles with an M badge on it. Whether it’s an M340 or an M3. Test drives were especially difficult to get. I suspect a lot of them size you up and decide if you’re actually someone who would seriously buy one of these or if you’re there for a joy ride. I had to specifically rent a bmw for a day to give it a try. Even then it was a stripper model for rental fleets so I don’t know if a M340i is appreciably better than a 330 or whatever the 4cyl turbo model is.
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Mar 4, 2023 19:40
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- 340 HP is p awesome for Mazda inline 6 imo. Can't wait. What would be interesting is how they tune the throttle. Modern Audis have a dead zone when getting underway so they feel sluggish, for example. -The Genesis G70 had the least headroom, so didn't bother test driving it. A total non-starter. The G80 on the other hand, is an interesting proposition.
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Mar 4, 2023 19:59
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smooth jazz posted:- 340 HP is p awesome for Mazda inline 6 imo. Can't wait. Based on some of the power and torque curves that have been released, it’s tuned for low to mid power and runs out of breath above about 5k. Which is actually great for real world regular driving, but does make it less “sporty”. Seems like a similar philosophy to how they have tuned the 2.5 turbo, smooth and with a buttload of off the line torque making the engine feel bigger than it is in day to day driving.
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Mar 4, 2023 20:15
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Franco Caution posted:stuff
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Mar 4, 2023 20:26
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Sagebrush posted:My mom and dad and us kids did fine with a 1990 Plymouth Voyager and the biggest engine you could get in that was 150hp, which I'm positive they didn't get, so it was probably closer to 100. In the 1990s your average 4cyl shitbox had 80hp, 6 with 150, and 8 with 200. With lovely tires, brakes, headlights, and safety systems that were practically non existent. Which meant for a lightish weight deathtrap of a package. The 1990s was thirty years ago and your 4cyl now makes 300hp to lump along a 3 ton safety cell.
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Mar 4, 2023 20:36
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Mr. Apollo posted:I have a few friends who bought Genesis cars, and yeah, that matches their experiences. They really like the cars, but hate taking them to the dealer for anything as the service departments are awful. They’ve complained to Genesis (Hyundai) corporate but they get the usual “dealerships are independently owned and operated so there’s not much we can do”. That may be true but the brand can’t expect to move upmarket if they aren’t willing to fix their dealers and hold them accountable. Lexus dealers are top notch, the best dealership experience we've had by far and my wife is regretting buying a Toyota since having to deal with the toyota dealer lol.
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Mar 4, 2023 20:41
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Too bad Lexus cars are boring as hell.
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Mar 4, 2023 20:59
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cursedshitbox posted:In the 1990s your average 4cyl shitbox had 80hp, 6 with 150, and 8 with 200. By 1990 you had to go down to like a 1.3l Civic to drop below 80hp. Something like an Accord would have had at least 125 by then.
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Mar 4, 2023 21:02
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Wonderllama posted:Too bad Lexus cars are boring as hell. I'll take that tradeoff for a dependable luxury car. Then I'll just buy a Miata 
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Mar 4, 2023 21:11
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Applebees Appetizer posted:I'll take that tradeoff for a dependable luxury car. I did the opposite: Toyota matrix and bmw m car.
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Mar 4, 2023 21:12
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dissss posted:By 1990 you had to go down to like a 1.3l Civic to drop below 80hp. Something like an Accord would have had at least 125 by then. Would you rather drive a 1990 Corolla and live with its 74hp, or take the Chevy Cavalier and get a little more power in exchange for dealing with a Cavalier? Man, the Neon was such a better driver than other domestic options had been there. Shame it doesn't show up until 1995.
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Mar 4, 2023 21:20
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Franco Caution posted:Anyone trying to compete with the luxury brands needs to get this part of the experience down better. Dealerships are very YMMV but all the Mazda dealers in my area committed to spending the money on the dealership renovations that Mazda asked for, and are very easy to work with.
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Mar 4, 2023 21:21
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Man, 340hp. Granted it has to move a big family hauler, but I just bought a 84hp hatchback and I think that has adequate power, more than two out the three other cars I've owned
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Mar 4, 2023 21:37
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Wonderllama posted:I did the opposite: Toyota matrix and bmw m car. If you have the Matrix XRS with a manual you have two fun cars then 
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Mar 4, 2023 21:44
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dissss posted:By 1990 you had to go down to like a 1.3l Civic to drop below 80hp. Something like an Accord would have had at least 125 by then. He's talking about American cars. A Buick Century or Oldsmobile Cutlass of the early 90s would have had a 2.5l I4 with about 80hp, a ~3l 60* OHV V6 putting out about 110-130hp, and maybe the 3.8l 90* OHV V6 with about 150hp if you were really fancy, and those were relatively upscale midsize cars a big step up from something like a Cavalier.
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Mar 4, 2023 22:02
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