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I think you will find that the constitution does not explicitly mention trans people, so they do not have any rights.
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Mar 3, 2023 23:18
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:
They had a slightly more direct solution to this problem.
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Mar 3, 2023 23:23
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FizFashizzle posted:They had a slightly more direct solution to this problem. True! But, that was just for the priests and church leadership/loyalists. They tried to get the peasants onto their new neutral religion to create a new religious unity in the country. It was even called "The Cult of the Supreme Being" and had a rival atheist version that didn't have any new neutral gods called "the Cult of Reason." Just such extremely "logical" solutions to problems that they horseshoed all the way into completely unworkable crazy. quote:The Cult of the Supreme Being was a form of deism established in France by Maximilien Robespierre during the French Revolution. It was intended to become the state religion of the new French Republic and a replacement for Roman Catholicism and its rival, the Cult of Reason. It went unsupported after the fall of Robespierre and was officially proscribed by First Consul Napoleon Bonaparte in 1802. quote:The French Revolution had occasioned many radical changes in France, but one of the most fundamental for the hitherto Catholic nation was the official rejection of religion. The first new major organized school of thought emerged under the umbrella name of the Cult of Reason. Advocated by radicals like Jacques Hébert and Antoine-François Momoro, the Cult of Reason distilled a mixture of largely atheistic views into an anthropocentric philosophy. No gods at all were worshipped in the Cult of Reason—the guiding principle was devotion to the abstract concept of Reason itself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Supreme_Being
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Mar 3, 2023 23:29
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Eason the Fifth posted:I think you will find that the constitution does not explicitly mention trans people, so they do not have any rights. What about 17th century English common law?
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Mar 3, 2023 23:40
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There's a lot of reasons to be concerned about the Supreme Court, but I don't know that gay marriage is one of them. Gorsuch is a huge piece of poo poo, but he actually HAS gone with "if you would do something differently if someone is a woman vs a man them it is de facto gender discrimination", which means it at least wouldn't be 6-3. No clue about Roberts or Kavanaugh, it would probably depend on the grounds of the challenge, but I think the actual shot with abortion restrictions is way more worth your mental stress, and I say that as a married gay man
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Mar 3, 2023 23:40
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Trump reminds me a lot of Jack from Lord of the Flies. None of the other kids on the island stand up to him and several clearly don't like being in his tribe, despite it being a bit of fun in the beginning. They do horrible things to stay in Jack's favor and abandon their friends, accept his lies, but they keep staying in his camp because he talks tough, gives them the "gift" of food and protects them from a made up, nebulous, omniscient monster, that they've been taught to fear in perpetuity. Then they deny abject reality - like killing Simon and supposedly vanquising the monster - and claim they had nothing to do with it while Jack tells them the monster is still out there. They come to not only embrace corporal punishment, but relish it and demand more. All culminating with the island's version of the January 6th riots where "hang Mike Pence" becomes the Hunt for Ralph who "isn't loyal" and after they murder Piggy, the "loser" and where face paint and spears become MAGA hats and flag poles. Eventually, they come to worship Jack like a king and are only apparently temporarily embarrassed by all that business on the island. Now it's like they all got rescued, wound up together in some other island or place and concluded that "Jack wasn't all that bad. At least we had meat. Plus, remember, he killed the monster (that's still out there)? Let's put Jack in charge again."
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Mar 3, 2023 23:52
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Jaxyon posted:What about 17th century English common law? It isn't American, so it doesn't matter.
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Mar 4, 2023 00:32
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:True! But, that was just for the priests and church leadership/loyalists. They tried to get the peasants onto their new neutral religion to create a new religious unity in the country. they were literally crowding catholic peasants onto boats and sinking them. these were called "republican Baptisms." quote:From the winter of 1793 to the spring of 1794, during the Reign of Terror, violent repression was put in place by the Republican forces. In the cities, and in particular in Nantes and Angers, around 15,000 people were shot, drowned or guillotined on the orders of the représentants en mission and Revolutionary Military Commissions, while in the countryside about 20,000 to 50,000 civilians were massacred by the infernal columns, who set fire to many towns and villages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_the_Vend%E9e
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Mar 4, 2023 01:52
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/03/02/east-palestine-ohio-derailment-dioxins/article posted:A chorus of academics, environmentalists and residents have been raising the alarm about potential dioxin contamination because, days after the derailment, authorities seeking to avoid an explosion purposefully released and burned the chemical vinyl chloride, a key component of PVC plastic. The EPA has ordered testing for dioxins at the site of the East Palestine derailment. It is good to see that the EPA correctly, if belatedly, has agreed that dioxin production could be a real concern and now we will get an idea of the level of contamination. Hopefully the results of testing reveal that little to no dioxins were created during the vinyl chloride combustion.
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Mar 4, 2023 03:59
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FizFashizzle posted:they were literally crowding catholic peasants onto boats and sinking them. these were called "republican Baptisms." This had less to do with 'because Catholicism' and more because "as with basically all other issues that led to the Revolution's repeated failure over the 18th century, support for a fully non-monarchist atheist Revolution was weak as poo poo outside of Paris". The anti-religiosity of the French Revolution was...well maybe not remarkably unsuccessful since basically all comparable revolutions also failed in the exact same way, but very unsuccessful.
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Mar 4, 2023 04:07
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Eason the Fifth posted:I think you will find that the constitution does not explicitly mention trans people, so they do not have any rights. As far as how much we can count on precedent with the courts to determine how things go, I think we're in uncharted waters. The courts had generally been pretty favorable to trans causes, but we've definitely seen a flip happen. Bathroom bans within schools have tended to be hard to defend, but a court recently set the ballgame for a SCOTUS showdown over bathroom laws in general that might be very bad news. And a case on trans Connecticut athletes is being reheard because the makeup of the court changed. A decade ago with the North Carolina trans ban, the thing really fell on its face. But it was back then a real shot in the dark at making a new gay marriage scare and trying to make controversial what was already becoming pretty conventional. The problem we have now is anti-trans laws have become a bedrock for the Republican Party for a few reasons: --There is a general moral panic that self-avowed liberals like JK Rowling and Matt Yglesias and Bill Maher have leaned into at varying degrees of abhorenance, so it is seen as wedge issue --The Groomer slur is basically a way to backdoor mainstream Qanon supporters into the party --There's just a shift in how specifically trans women are viewed. Two decades ago, we were seen as traps who tricked men with her hot bods. We were men who a surgery had transformed into a lady. This is flawed thinking of course, and the 2010s saw the shift in being trans less about transexual medical transitioning and more in terms of a matter of underlying gender identity being what defines someone as being trans. I think the problem is the backlash to this has really been in terms of a suspicion of being trans at all and framing it as metaphysical wishy washy nonsense against rock hard BIO TRUTHS. Trans men and non-binary people meanwhile are seen as made up things that didn't exist until 2019. --It's provided a good pipeline for radicalizing people in general.
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Mar 4, 2023 04:13
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:There's about 7 different layers of why Disney World will never ever be able to move. But, unless DeSantis just wants to burn Florida to the ground for no reason, it really makes no sense for Florida to actually make Disney World lovely. It supplies a huge amount of money via sales tax from tourists to the state and is a huge employer. They should (and probably will) just let Disney do what they were doing, but make a bunch of high-profile vetoes and "gently caress you's" if Disney applies for permits to make their rides "woke" or add a "Princess and the Frog" section to the park to score some political points and remind them who is the boss without killing the golden goose.
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Mar 4, 2023 04:58
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Jesus Christ. Truly monstrous.
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Mar 4, 2023 13:41
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It's like a successor to the Fugitive Slave Act 
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Mar 4, 2023 14:38
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If it's not kidnapping when grandma and grandpa abscond with their trans grandchild to Florida, is it kidnapping when the parents retrieve him and take him back to a transition-friendly state? I was expecting the second Civil War to start over the Fugitive Fetus Act, but the Fugitive Trans Grandchild Act would also do
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Mar 4, 2023 14:59
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Piell posted:There is just constantly more and more terrifying monstrous poo poo being proposed They broke up immigrant families, trans families are next. I really don't want to think what they'll do next. They don't want trans kids to exist and they're not going to stop. Whatever they do, it's going to come with a 6-3 blessing of the supreme court. This is terrifying. Raenir Salazar posted:It's like a successor to the Fugitive Slave Act That's next year, when they enable grandparents in The Villiages to force their kids (who dont talk to them anymore) in New York to transport their trans grand kids to them.
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Mar 4, 2023 15:06
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Meatball posted:That's next year, when they enable grandparents in The Villiages to force their kids (who dont talk to them anymore) in New York to transport their trans grand kids to them. There's zero chance New York would enforce this and the AG would file suit and get a national injunction basically immediately and then it would get thrown out after trial. SCOTUS likely wouldn't even grant cert for an appeal. The shitheads running Florida are evil but don't just assume they're all powerful.
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Mar 4, 2023 15:33
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Meatball posted:Whatever they do, it's going to come with a 6-3 blessing of the supreme court. This is terrifying. I don't think it'd be 6-3, one of the Conservative justices perhaps surprisingly turned out to be okay maybe by accident, on such issues, so at worst 5-4, but I don't think they'll get Roberts.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:08
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KillHour posted:There's zero chance New York would enforce this and the AG would file suit and get a national injunction basically immediately and then it would get thrown out after trial. SCOTUS likely wouldn't even grant cert for an appeal. I 100% agree with you but I could also totally see an Elian Gonzalez type situation happening where a child has to be forcibly brought back to their parents.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:38
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KillHour posted:The shitheads running Florida are evil but don't just assume they're all powerful. It also probably won’t pass. But think about how they could do this. You make it model legislation, then get it passed in other red states. Then add agreements with those other red states to enforce.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:20
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https://twitter.com/RiverValleyOrg/status/1631816953143652352 A dam retaining contaminated water from the East Palestine derailment failed yesterday after heavy rains. related article: https://www.cleveland19.com/2023/03/04/new-level-fear-makeshift-dam-is-breached-east-palestine/
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Mar 4, 2023 18:23
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KillHour posted:There's zero chance New York would enforce this and the AG would file suit and get a national injunction basically immediately and then it would get thrown out after trial. SCOTUS likely wouldn't even grant cert for an appeal. Yes, but it generates a media shitstorm. Most of the media would rightfully be calling this horrible but the stuff the conservatives absorb (mainly Fox News, the NYT opinion column, right wing radio) would be screaming in favor of the grandparents. Meanwhile the whole media shitstorm wears down trans people, a lot of which aren't in the best mental state from the abuse they've suffered already in their lives. Bellmaker posted:I 100% agree with you but I could also totally see an Elian Gonzalez type situation happening where a child has to be forcibly brought back to their parents. Also this.
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Mar 4, 2023 21:55
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So now that goons have (correctly) identified the on-coming trans genocide. Are we going to face the facts about how genocides are stopped? Or are people so invested in talking about dead trans people that we won't ever talk about the force required to save their lives?
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Mar 4, 2023 22:23
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Dull Fork posted:So now that goons have (correctly) identified the on-coming trans genocide. Are we going to face the facts about how genocides are stopped? Or are people so invested in talking about dead trans people that we won't ever talk about the force required to save their lives? If the best place you have to plan "the force required to save ... lives" is forums.somethingawful.com, then you need to fix that first. This is a public-facing internet comedy forum, and a dying one at that, it's not where any "forceful" revolution or resistance is being organized. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 22:40
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Dull Fork posted:So now that goons have (correctly) identified the on-coming trans genocide. Are we going to face the facts about how genocides are stopped? Or are people so invested in talking about dead trans people that we won't ever talk about the force required to save their lives? I agree: we really need to step up leftist electoralism in red states, instead of throwing up our hands and declaring that conservative regions are unwinnable. Both leftists and liberals wrote off entire states as not worth campaigning in, and now we're seeing the result: with no real left-of-center opposition to speak of, these areas have drifted farther and farther right.
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Mar 4, 2023 22:49
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Raenir Salazar posted:I don't think it'd be 6-3, one of the Conservative justices perhaps surprisingly turned out to be okay maybe by accident, on such issues, so at worst 5-4, but I don't think they'll get Roberts. Yeah but what are you going to do? Things are not likely to improve given than the only acceptable response is to “vote”. The Supreme Court are the ultimate rulers of the country. It says so in the constitution. There is absolutely nothing the executive branch could do. Nor has a precedent been set where the executive branch has told the Supreme Court and local states to eat poo poo. Plus that would go against the decorums this fine country has to follow. Thems the brakes to uphold democracy. At least the old white alleged sex pest in the presidency is a dem.
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Mar 4, 2023 22:53
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Yeah but what are you going to do? It should be a thread rule that before you ask someone some lovely question like "what are YOU going to do about it?" you have to list out the things that you are personally doing. Otherwise it's just a continual nothingmatters edgelord shitshow. The world is depressing enough without smart asses trying desperately to snuff out any optimism people have. It doesn't make you a bad rear end, it doesn't make you a realist, it just makes you an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:24
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:It should be a thread rule that before you ask someone some lovely question like "what are YOU going to do about it?" you have to list out the things that you are personally doing. Otherwise it's just a continual nothingmatters edgelord shitshow. The world is depressing enough without smart asses trying desperately to snuff out any optimism people have. It doesn't make you a bad rear end, it doesn't make you a realist, it just makes you an rear end in a top hat. It's also total nothingmatters doomerism bullshit. The executive has outright told the SCOTUS to gently caress off and suck it up in the past, and that they had no power or authority, effectively stripping the branch of it's overreach. The SCOTUS raged, threatened, and then promptly shut the gently caress up because they are not the military and if push comes to shove they can be removed from power with the force of the state. Virtualboycolor is not speaking honestly, at all. Doesn't mean this isn't a genocide though. Kidnapping children to "indoctrinate" (read: Abuse them until they conform to a narrow minded and bigoted set of beliefs out of fear for their safety/just get them injured or killed if they don't comply like the christian missionary schools that plagued native american communities) is literally a form of genocide. Archonex fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 23:37
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I read virtualboyCOLOR was pretty clearly being sarcastic and was basically saying "the Supreme Court is hosed, and modern American liberal political leaders refuse to resist its supposed authority, even though much of that authority isn't constitutional and has been successfully resisted in the past."
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Mar 4, 2023 23:37
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Civilized Fishbot posted:This is a public-facing internet comedy forum, and a dying one at that, it's not where any "forceful" revolution or resistance is being organized. Not sure we get to think this honestly anymore after an insurrection occurred basically because of 4chan.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:38
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Not sure we get to think this honestly anymore after an insurrection occurred basically because of 4chan. Yeah, the dying internet comedy forum thing seems mostly like a joke that people forgot to not take seriously now. A lot of the forums are reasonably active still. It's just that we're not twitter sucking the air out of the room with thousands of tweets per minute or whatever.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:41
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Bar Ran Dun posted:Not sure we get to think this honestly anymore after an insurrection occurred basically because of 4chan. And everyone involved a) failed to accomplish any of their goals and b) got rounded up by the FBI (at least the front line foot soldiers). The underground trans railroad will need much better opsec
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Mar 4, 2023 23:41
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:It should be a thread rule that before you ask someone some lovely question like "what are YOU going to do about it?" you have to list out the things that you are personally doing. Otherwise it's just a continual nothingmatters edgelord shitshow. I'm not saying that at all as there is no ONE action ONE person can take to change the fate of a country, let alone a state. That would be asinine. However I AM pointing out the silliness of folks putting their faith in a COLLECTIVE body that allows 9 people cosplaying as wizards to control the literal lives of people. Archonex posted:The executive has outright told the SCOTUS to gently caress off and suck it up in the past, and that they had no power or authority, effectively stripping the branch of it's overreach. The SCOTUS raged, threatened, and then promptly shut the gently caress up because they are not the military and if push comes to shove they can be removed from power with the force of the state. Ask yourself why the white male alleged sex pest didn't do poo poo when the supreme court went full mask off about Roe v Wade. Effectively because Biden, the dems, and those that reward them, support the supreme court's decision (or, at the very least, find the supreme court useful). Civilized Fishbot posted:I read virtualboyCOLOR was pretty clearly being sarcastic and was basically saying "the Supreme Court is hosed, and modern American liberal political leaders refuse to resist its supposed authority, even though much of that authority isn't constitutional and has been successfully resisted in the past." Exactly.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:50
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The best way to directly support trans people right now is through money and other forms of direct aid like helping get access to medications. A lot of trans people are poor as gently caress and can barely even afford meds, let alone the resources to escape these states where awful legislation is going through. Even if the 2024 elections go well, a lot of us can't wait that long.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:51
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Queering Wheel posted:The best way to directly support trans people right now is through money and other forms of direct aid like helping get access to medications. A lot of trans people are poor as gently caress and can barely even afford meds, let alone the resources to escape these states where awful legislation is going through. Even if the 2024 elections go well, a lot of us can't wait that long. sounds like a lot of work. i'll feel just as good about myself if i hint at my murder fantasies tbh (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 4, 2023 23:52
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pull up thread, pull up
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Mar 4, 2023 23:56
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Archonex posted:Yeah, the dying internet comedy forum thing seems mostly like a joke that people forgot to not take seriously now. A lot of the forums are reasonably active still. It's just that we're not twitter sucking the air out of the room with thousands of tweets per minute or whatever. "The force required to save ... lives" also shouldn't be organized on a thriving comedy forum. If you're going to do any kind of stunt along those lines then you plan it privately with like-minded comrades you can trust, not with anyone who ever paid $10 to post here. Bar Ran Dun posted:Not sure we get to think this honestly anymore after an insurrection occurred basically because of 4chan. The January 6 riots were facilitated by sympathy from police and outright support from the executive branch, and they "achieved" nothing more than ransacking some offices, getting a few of them killed, getting many more of them sent to prison. Anyone who wants to be John Brown for Trans People will need a social network that goes beyond forums.somethingawful.com, and won't use forums.somethingawful.com to plan their John Brown activities.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:56
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Civilized Fishbot posted:If the best place you have to plan "the force required to save ... lives" is forums.somethingawful.com, then you need to fix that first. This is a public-facing internet comedy forum, and a dying one at that, it's not where any "forceful" revolution or resistance is being organized. QFT
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Mar 4, 2023 23:58
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One of the things that makes the american far right so hilarious is that they often plan violent acts right on public internet forums.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:58
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Civilized Fishbot posted:"The force required to save ... lives" also shouldn't be organized on a thriving comedy forum. If you're going to do any kind of stunt along those lines then you plan it privately with like-minded comrades you can trust, not with anyone who ever paid $10 to post here. How does this have anything to do with me affirming that the forums aren't dying internet comedy forums Actually, we used to be dead comedy forums, so I feel like we're moving on up in the world
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Mar 5, 2023 00:01
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