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I assumed the naval turret on a tracked vehicle is just anti drone defense but I would've thought ZSU23-4 shilkas would have been more handy in that role and they were made by the bucket load. I did read they had a lot of electromechanical components in the gun laying system which obviously are sensitive to the passage of time.
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Mar 4, 2023 14:37
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Idk how representative this sentiment is of the average American conservative MTG gets an ovation at CPAC for "[Ukraine] needs to find peace, not war." https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1631685373406453761
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Mar 4, 2023 14:45
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Rinkles posted:Idk how representative this sentiment is of the average American conservative It's representative of the ones who are taking bribes from the Kremlin rather than from Raytheon.
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Mar 4, 2023 14:47
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Captain Fargle posted:It's representative of the ones who are taking bribes from the Kremlin rather than from Raytheon. Or just huffing down Russian funded media.
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Mar 4, 2023 14:48
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Captain Fargle posted:It's representative of the ones who are taking bribes from the Kremlin rather than from Raytheon. And just being a contrarian to the administration. There's a lot going on behind the scenes but a part of it is just "Biden is doing this so it's bad".
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Mar 4, 2023 15:08
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Rinkles posted:Idk how representative this sentiment is of the average American conservative Support of Ukraine in the us is extremely high and certain extremist conservatives have tried to be angry about Ukraine and do not represent the populace. I believe this will come to a head at some point as it's the same part of Congress that is Republican controlled for now which approves budgets such as military. However I forget how long the budget is already approved for?
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Mar 4, 2023 15:14
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notwithoutmyanus posted:Support of Ukraine in the us is extremely high and certain extremist conservatives have tried to be angry about Ukraine and do not represent the populace. I believe this will come to a head at some point as it's the same part of Congress that is Republican controlled for now which approves budgets such as military. However I forget how long the budget is already approved for? IIRC lend-lease just straight up bypasses congress anyway-- the president says what ukraine gets and bam, they get it. so, it's mostly just political grandstanding until 2024. it's also worth mentioning that CPAC is one particular brand of crazy conservative, not representative of all conservatives in general or even the trend lines of the GOP, especially since the 2024 elections are beginning to fracture the american right. NoiseAnnoys fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 15:22
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Pablo Bluth posted:All of this is why I wonder if they're intended for anti-drone duty. They clearly have questionable mobility, so use them away from moving frontlines. Park them up at strategic locations until a drone is spotted, and hope you can light up the sky enough to take down the drone(s). Google says they have a range of 2.5km and a AA ceiling of 1.7km. I don't think that the naval turret has any radar or anything, just visual aiming. For same effect they could have used just ZU-23 twin barreled 23mm AA technicals, I think.
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Mar 4, 2023 15:31
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Rinkles posted:Idk how representative this sentiment is of the average American conservative Yeah, just look at the size of the crowd: https://twitter.com/BettyBowers/status/1631743647262691328 (AKA: this isn't very representative of the average American conservative) Also, not sure what's flagging this as potentially sensitive content, but I guess a potential  if you decide to scroll through other content by this tweeter?
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Mar 4, 2023 16:15
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It's interesting to see the development of CPAC in this regard, because it spent many years essentially being a representative trendsetter for the future of US conservatives, but it went in fully on the jackboot loyalist train and doesn't seem to have persevered in the switch to the republican authoritarian cold war. So where pro-russia conservatism goes from here I guess depends on if desantis co-opts it willingly, because then it's not a point of contention among any of the factions that matter.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:31
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Rinkles posted:Idk how representative this sentiment is of the average American conservative MTG is an attention-seeking troll. Don't take anything she says seriously. If it starts get repeated by otherwise respectable people, it's something to be concerned about. Follow the actual debates in Congress, not those at CPAC.
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Mar 4, 2023 16:35
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Charlz Guybon posted:I don't think feeding elite units into this fight is worth it. Better to use them in counter attacks elsewhere if they want to relieve pressure on Bakhmut Have the Ukrainians been destroying the bridges or the Russians?
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Mar 4, 2023 16:41
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Eric Cantonese posted:Have the Ukrainians been destroying the bridges or the Russians? The former per ISW. quote:Ukrainian forces appear to be setting conditions for a controlled fighting withdrawal from parts of Bakhmut. Russian forces have been fighting to take Bakhmut, a city with a pre-war population of roughly 70,000 people, since roughly May 2022 and have suffered devastating casualties in the process. Geolocated footage posted on March 3 confirms that Ukrainian troops have destroyed two critical bridges in the Bakhmut area—one across the Bakhmutivka River in northeastern Bakhmut and one along the Khromove-Bakhmut route just west of Bakhmut.[1] The preemptive destruction of bridges is likely an indicator that Ukrainian troops may seek to inhibit Russian movement in eastern Bakhmut and limit potential westward Russian egress routes out of Bakhmut. Ukrainian Presidential Advisor Oleksandr Rodnyanskyi previously stated on February 28 that Ukrainian forces could choose to pull back from positions in Bakhmut as needed.[2] Rodnyanskyi also noted that Ukraine has fortified the area west of Bakhmut such that even if Ukrainian troops begin to withdraw, Russian forces would not necessarily be able to rapidly take the entire city.[3] If the Ukrainian military command deems it necessary to withdraw from Bakhmut it will likely conduct a limited and controlled withdrawal from particularly difficult sectors of eastern Bakhmut judging from Ukrainian statements and reported Ukrainian actions. ISW will continue to monitor the situation and offer updated assessments of the implications of possible Russian courses of action if and when Ukrainian forces begin to pull back. https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-3-2023 https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1631576765150666752?s=20
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Mar 4, 2023 16:58
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Eric Cantonese posted:Have the Ukrainians been destroying the bridges or the Russians? Must be Ukrainians, can't really see attackers destroying their own way to further access the town.
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Mar 4, 2023 17:11
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Rinkles posted:Idk how representative this sentiment is of the average American conservative This is also a woman who also blamed a wildfire on "Jewish Space Lasers." She is basically the craziest conservative in congress (which is saying something). The most recent (late-January) polling shows 48% of Americans still favor sending more weapons to Ukraine, with only 29% opposed. Its a weaker 39% to 37% for Republicans though. Economic aid is more controversial though. Regardless of the polling though, historically, when it comes to matters of foreign policy, the tide needs to be more strongly turned against it to actually begin pulling back. Battlelines are beginning to be drawn within the Republican party between the populist faction and the more traditional conservative faction, after the populists got destroyed in the 2022 midterm. The populists would be likely to block weapons support, but not-so much the tradition faction, and given the 2022 results, it seems unlikely that the populists will be able to get their way unless they make it their top priority in 2024. Its worth noting that many lefty types are similarly anti-Ukraine in this regard, but have even less power than the right-wing populists in the democrats. Mostly it has resulted in the few of the self-identifying socialists in congress to be a bit more "moderate" to preserve their image among their base, but not to that extent. I can certainly see in 2024 there being some quibbling over the amount of things sent causing it to be reduced, but I doubt anything more than that.
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Mar 4, 2023 17:15
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https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1632049175100530688?t=_jt7zW4CSCGTUeDQ9w7Iuw&s=19 Polls in wartime are close to worthless but drat the Poroshenko numbers are brutal
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Mar 4, 2023 17:26
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Just Another Lurker posted:Must be Ukrainians, can't really see attackers destroying their own way to further access the town. Attacker absolutely has a reason to hit bridges if it helps them to force the defender to retreat because they can't effectively supply the front line. Because the expectation is that the defender will blow them up anyway, so there's nothing to lose there. Also see how Ukraine kept hitting the Antonovsky bridge, and Russians finally collapsing it when they left Kherson. There never was any expectation that the bridge would be left intact so the right thing to do was damage it as much as possible to limit its use.
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Mar 4, 2023 17:48
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Nenonen posted:I don't think that the naval turret has any radar or anything, just visual aiming. For same effect they could have used just ZU-23 twin barreled 23mm AA technicals, I think. It's entirely manned turret with no electronics other than the motor it sits on (that neck looking part) and it virtually unchanged since being introduced in WW2, they were awful for AA then, they're awful AA now. As for the comment it might be good for shooting hull down, I say it would be terrible for that largely because it's not very well armored and there is about 1000 rounds ammo bins sitting on the other side of the gunner just begging to be touched-off.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:32
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fatherboxx posted:https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1632049175100530688?t=_jt7zW4CSCGTUeDQ9w7Iuw&s=19 People really dislike Poroshenko and Tymoshenko, is just due to past ineffectiveness or something else?
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Mar 4, 2023 19:13
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Nenonen posted:Attacker absolutely has a reason to hit bridges if it helps them to force the defender to retreat because they can't effectively supply the front line. Because the expectation is that the defender will blow them up anyway, so there's nothing to lose there. Thanks for correcting my train of though on that. 
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Mar 4, 2023 19:37
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WarpedLichen posted:People really dislike Poroshenko and Tymoshenko, is just due to past ineffectiveness or something else? Poroschenko is considered partly responsible for the current state of things and Tymoschenko is both unpopular, famously corrupt, and in particular was filmed on a beach in Dubai or something a couple months ago, which made a bunch of waves at the time.
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Mar 4, 2023 19:53
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Poroshenko was living abroad prior to the war due to ongoing corruption charges and accusations of conspiring with the chief pro-Russian figurehead Viktor Medvedchuk to profit from economic activities in the occupied separatist areas.
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Mar 4, 2023 20:00
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Rinkles posted:Idk how representative this sentiment is of the average American conservative An ovation by the 75 people in attendance, yeah
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Mar 4, 2023 20:07
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beer_war posted:The former per ISW. This is illogical, and goes against what Ukrainian media are reporting as well. Bakhmutivka bridge sure, Ukrainians did it as it makes the logistics of moving in from the eastern part of the town more complicated, slowing the advance. The other bridge, though is on their last supply line into the town, and was reported by Ukrainian media as being blown up by Russian forces (and why would Ukrainians blow up their supplies/retreat route?).
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Mar 4, 2023 20:42
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WarpedLichen posted:People really dislike Poroshenko and Tymoshenko, is just due to past ineffectiveness or something else? They are, for lack of better term, The Swamp, thoroughly rotten political establishment that are way into second decade of failed second chances and piles on piles of corruption stories. Poroshenko superfans are also insufferable and agressive online due to his media proxies being absolutely shameless.
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Mar 4, 2023 20:53
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cinci zoo sniper posted:This is illogical, and goes against what Ukrainian media are reporting as well. Bakhmutivka bridge sure, Ukrainians did it as it makes the logistics of moving in from the eastern part of the town more complicated, slowing the advance. The other bridge, though is on their last supply line into the town, and was reported by Ukrainian media as being blown up by Russian forces (and why would Ukrainians blow up their supplies/retreat route?). Ah yes, warfare is famously logically and never has any friction. Just ask Napoleon at Leipzig and what happens when you tell a General who delegates it to a corporal what he thinks of that. I do wonder what Napoleon said when he got told that 30000 troops and some of his best Generals were on the wrong side of the river. If the bridges are being blown and it's by the Russians, that's worse because it means the Ukrainians either aren't guarding them or the Russians are able to get to them with ease meaning the road they are on has already fallen. I really should take some time to read Clausewitz one day. Comstar fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Mar 4, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 20:56
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If Ukraine is withdrawing from Bakhmut expect it to continue to be very foggy for another couple of days. If they aren't, also expect it to be very unclear for at least a couple more days. Some Russians seem to think they are, but also whatever progress Russia is making remains slow and Ukraine is sending tons of mixed signals still about what they're doing. in conclusion, good luck figuring that one out exactly for a while longer
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Mar 4, 2023 21:50
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notwithoutmyanus posted:Support of Ukraine in the us is extremely high and certain extremist conservatives have tried to be angry about Ukraine and do not represent the populace. I believe this will come to a head at some point as it's the same part of Congress that is Republican controlled for now which approves budgets such as military. However I forget how long the budget is already approved for? There is a significant portion of U.S. conservatives, being fed propaganda from a significant portion of the right wing media machine, that IS represented by what Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying here. Anecdote: I was doing some work in a really right wing state a couple of weeks ago. A patient there (hospital) struck up a conversation with the nurse taking care of him, the subject was Biden's visit to Ukraine. The guy's one minute diatribe hit every Tucker Carlson talking point including "Biden thinks he's president of the Ukraine not the U.S., why don't we just send them ALL our money eh?, he's taking care of these Ukranians and ignoring our OWN border, why should we help this country whose government is full of Nazis" etc. It's a complete package of propaganda that has been spoon fed to that guy, perfectly digested and pooped out as this set of talking points. So it definitely represents a segment of American right wingers, the key question is what percentage of them? It's a legitimate worry that ANY GOP president but especially Trump will end U.S. support for Ukraine.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:15
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Zwabu posted:There is a significant portion of U.S. conservatives, being fed propaganda from a significant portion of the right wing media machine, that IS represented by what Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying here. Absolutely. I continue to be mystified by this thread's confidence in continued US support of Ukraine. Trump and Fox News ARE the mainstream of the Republican Party. They are not remotely fringe figures. Support for Ukraine ends in 2024 unless Dems win a trifecta of house, senate, and white house again. I just checked and it's actually worse than this. Lend Lease expires at the end of the current fiscal year, September 30 2023. So Ukraine has 6 months to win the war, or at least until US materiel shipments end. I would be extremely surprised if Kevin McCarthy allows it to come up for a vote for renewal. (most likely this will get spun as a negotiation, like "cut social security by XX in return for renewal of lend lease") Are there a lot of Republicans who quietly support Ukraine or at least aren't explicitly pro-Russian? Probably. Are there a meaningful number that will stick their necks out for Ukraine when the chips are down? Absolutely not.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:34
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Legitimate worry or not, this is a current affairs thread, and so move on if there isn't a Biden-Trump duel scheduled for the next week. Edit: Cavoli says more than 200k dead+wounded (including more than 1800 officers) and more than 2000 MBTs lost for Russia. https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukra...ee-6d9535b5984f cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 4, 2023 23:36
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Two Ukrainian pilots are in the U.S. for training assessment on attack aircrafts, including F-16squote:Two Ukrainian pilots are currently in the United States undergoing an assessment to determine how long it could take to train them to fly attack aircrafts, including F-16 fighter jets, according to two congressional officials and a senior U.S. official.
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Mar 5, 2023 01:07
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So a defender would blow up a bridge to slow enemy advance. An attacker would blow up a bridge to entrap enemy forces, vehicles, ammunition and supplies. The reason there is seemingly conflicting information is likely that both happened.
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Mar 5, 2023 02:44
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cinci zoo sniper posted:This is illogical, and goes against what Ukrainian media are reporting as well. Bakhmutivka bridge sure, Ukrainians did it as it makes the logistics of moving in from the eastern part of the town more complicated, slowing the advance. The other bridge, though is on their last supply line into the town, and was reported by Ukrainian media as being blown up by Russian forces (and why would Ukrainians blow up their supplies/retreat route?). wsj guy says there's another route in near Ivanivske that heavy equipment is being moved through https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1631602504021540865 https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1631633762604793858
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Mar 5, 2023 03:15
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Legitimate worry or not, this is a current affairs thread, and so move on if there isn't a Biden-Trump duel scheduled for the next week. Only a 1:100 casualty ratio of officers to enlisted surprises me, particularly given how officer-heavy the Russian army is.
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Mar 5, 2023 03:23
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Legitimate worry or not, this is a current affairs thread, and so move on if there isn't a Biden-Trump duel scheduled for the next week. Should that 200 be 2000? (Oryx has 1790).
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Mar 5, 2023 03:30
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OddObserver posted:Should that 200 be 2000? (Oryx has 1790). That should be 2000, sorry. Ynglaur posted:Only a 1:100 casualty ratio of officers to enlisted surprises me, particularly given how officer-heavy the Russian army is. I'm not super clear on the officer definition used. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 04:06
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Is Kadryov actually poisoned or am I getting a new batch of tabloid theorycrafting in my news feed
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Mar 5, 2023 04:51
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Yes, the latter. Albeit there are a huge number of people who would love to see something bad happen to Kadyrov so there's fertile ground for rumors like that
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Mar 5, 2023 05:23
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I don't think Kadyrov's poisoning is outlandish anymore. MSN has picked up the story https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/top-putin-ally-ramzan-kadyrov-seriously-ill-from-suspected-poisoning/ar-AA18dOku?li=BBnb7Kz MSN posted:Chechen warlord Ramzan Kadyrov – a close ally of Vladimir Putin – is reported to be seriously ill with kidney problems amid fears of ‘poisoning’.
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Mar 5, 2023 06:06
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We've had some cases during this invasion where relatively reliable press will unfortunately run with lovely rumors, so unless it's citing direct evidence, I'm not sure it helps. ...if Kadyrov were to drop dead, though, who would take his place? edit: "MSN" didn't pick up the story, MSN aggregated the story from the Metro, a UK tabloid.
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Mar 5, 2023 06:12
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