(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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Mulva posted:And that's sad, and infuriating.....but also, there's only so much you can beat the poo poo out of yourself over required actions in bad situations. "I LUST FOR ORK DEATH RAR RAR RAR!" is obviously hosed up, sure, but so is constantly whipping oneself for perceived sins in every action. There is nothing wrong with being happy when Russia suffers setbacks, even if the reality of "Setback" is actually "A lot of Russian soldiers died brutally". One doesn't have to do pelvic thrusts and let off an air horn every time a tank gets lit the gently caress up, but it's perfectly fine to acknowledge that it's always good when Russia is being hurt over this. From a military perspective, the objective and not being a war criminal is all that really matters, and I get that. I just think it's really important to separate those things, I guess, and not let that militaristic logic leak out into other stuff. it's dangerously simple and makes people miss important details, and stop being able to look at things from other's perspectives, or empathize, that mix of reductive thinking, target fixation and tribalism good for being actually in a war, not so good for anything else, but I'll drop it anyways because it's pretty off-topic at this point vvvv 
FirstnameLastname fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 04:03
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FirstnameLastname posted:i wasn't saying to self-flagellate over it or to not celebrate successes in the war at all, i recognize it's a war, and a very violent one at that, and that people are going to continue to be killed for a while. It sucks but war sucks. It's just that of all the things to celebrate, mobiks getting massacred isn't one of them. I'm not talking about it from a military perspective just a human one. For what it's worth I find your position understandable and sympathize with it.
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Mar 6, 2023 04:08
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Karma Comedian posted:Let's not talk about k/D's and 360noscopes and whatever else when talking about an actual conflict, there are much more interesting things to talk about tia Makes sense to me. All they need is a little scaffolding or a bucket to place that seat on and they could have a real prime mobile shitter.
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Mar 6, 2023 04:12
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Isw blurb re bakhmut: https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1632580394833924096?t=q1pYZf6Y6YFguoII0rRmhA&s=19 https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1632580397816061952?t=dxzITfVbdjQtig08K29e9g&s=19https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1632580401653772291?t=uJmuBKYaV1r3NG0YTx7Aiw&s=19 ISW conclusion: The Ukrainians are probably conducting a fighting withdrawal from Bakhmut.
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Mar 6, 2023 04:27
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It feels like every day on the news that they're declaring that Bakhmut has fallen only for an update each night that the fighting is continuing.
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Mar 6, 2023 04:46
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And why wouldn't they? Right? I mean bakhmut is a crater. They've killed an insane amount of people and Russia has lost a huge amount of their spearhead. As these offensives go while mobiks die, regular troops are getting destroyed aswell. Prigohzin sn't going to get his Nazi doom fortress. Bakhmut may be cool and all but the rest of the front is being drained to keep this offensive going. And Russia will feel the affect of that. Remember every group that they get is less moralized than the group before. And what this really means is that they are completely and utterly bottom the barrel for what's defending the rest of the front lines that are unexpected to be counter-attacked. I think it would be interesting if they replicated what they did in lysychansk as in zeroed artillery shattering units that enter the city proper and then swerve in with more counter assaults. That could potentially trap a huge sum of people in a very bad situation. Creeping barrages behind you and ukrainians Infront of you shooting. It's a meat grinder in the making. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 04:54
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Arc Hammer posted:It feels like every day on the news that they're declaring that Bakhmut has fallen only for an update each night that the fighting is continuing. That's because Bakhmut's purpose has changed several times over the course of the war. It has been a prepared defensive position even before the 2022 invasion, and when Ukraine retreated from Severodonetsk, Bakhmut was the planned fallback position. It's first purpose was to attrit Russian forces, which was much less strategically important compared to the Kherson and Kharkiv counteroffensives (and indeed was crucial to the Kharkiv counteroffensive because the Bakhmut actions during the summer of 2022 drastically depleted the Russian forces in Bakhmut oblast to compensate, opening the door for Ukrainian advancement). Bakhmut's purpose transformed most recently about a month or two ago, or when you (in general) noticed the shift in the coverage on Bakhmut and how it is now being portrayed as a very strategically important place, contrary to the last year of the war. It switched from an attrition generator to a force-pinner. The Russians engaged at Bakhmut can't be sent or used elsewhere, and they're being mulched on the daily. Bakhmut is now strategically important because once again it is the fulcrum on which Ukrainian counter-offensives operate on, and this time it's going to be towards the Sea of Azov. The more Russians are at Bakhmut, the fewer there are elsewhere.
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Mar 6, 2023 04:59
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Karma Comedian posted:Let's not talk about k/D's and 360noscopes and whatever else when talking about an actual conflict, there are much more interesting things to talk about tia Everyone wants to talk about the toilet seat, but no one wants to mention the well-maintained bucket. That's the bucket of a man who, at the end of the day, mutters "This is my bucket. There are many like it but this one is mine" as he cleans it.
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Mar 6, 2023 05:04
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HonorableTB posted:That's because Bakhmut's purpose has changed several times over the course of the war. It has been a prepared defensive position even before the 2022 invasion, and when Ukraine retreated from Severodonetsk, Bakhmut was the planned fallback position. It's first purpose was to attrit Russian forces, which was much less strategically important compared to the Kherson and Kharkiv counteroffensives (and indeed was crucial to the Kharkiv counteroffensive because the Bakhmut actions during the summer of 2022 drastically depleted the Russian forces in Bakhmut oblast to compensate, opening the door for Ukrainian advancement). At this point, Russia's sunk cost in terms of lives fed into the grinder and machines turned to scrap while trying to take Bakhmut is enormous. Putin is likely just desperate for something he can sell to the Russian people as progress, even if any victory in Bakhmut is entirely pyrrhic.
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Mar 6, 2023 05:11
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Cthulu Carl posted:Everyone wants to talk about the toilet seat, but no one wants to mention the well-maintained bucket. You take care of your bucket, your bucket takes care of you.
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Mar 6, 2023 05:15
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de_dust posted:This is pretty much a modern “Not all Wehrmacht soldiers…” kind of post. Outstanding. If we're to be successful with this, one thing that has to stop is the false equivalencies. They're a huge red flag for a number of reasons. We are to infer from this statement that because the Russian army = Wehrmacht, that Putin = Hitler, Russia = Nazi Germany, and so forth ad nauseum. The purpose of using such equivalency is to get other people frothing at the mouth, because everyone correctly agrees that Nazis = poo poo. But all it does is trivialize the horrors of the Second World War. We've heard it every time America has an enemy- Saddam is worse than Hitler, Gaddafi is worse than Hitler, Maduro (lol) is worse than Hitler, and on and on and on. To those of us whom that war actually has meaning beyond video games, they are not the meaningful comparisons that the people blithely making them think they are. If you want to know who the Nazis are, they will gladly tell you. Heck, they have a whole pantheon of symbols that they've stolen from various non-poo poo belief systems and permanently corrupted the meaning of. For those wanting to get a better sense of how to identify a real neo-Nazi, here's a good resource to get started: https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbols/search?f%5B0%5D=topic%3A1705
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Mar 6, 2023 05:26
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ArfJason posted:So did the uyghur genocide happen or...? This thread has been open for 6 hours and already trying to poo poo things up, huh?
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Mar 6, 2023 05:30
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Futanari Damacy posted:If we're to be successful with this, one thing that has to stop is the false equivalencies. They're a huge red flag for a number of reasons. Makes u think
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Mar 6, 2023 05:48
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FirstnameLastname posted:i wasn't saying to self-flagellate over it or to not celebrate successes in the war at all, i recognize it's a war, and a very violent one at that, and that people are going to continue to be killed for a while. It sucks but war sucks. It's just that of all the things to celebrate, mobiks getting massacred isn't one of them. I'm not talking about it from a military perspective just a human one. I get it and agree with you, it's just I think this thread is already aware of that stuff. It is probably true that most people are unaware that that "hidden" genocide of ethnic minorities in Russia is happening, but I think posters in this thread broadly are. I think another reason you get pushback is because you reach pretty far in your analogies sometimes. Like in a previous post you said that ridiculing mobiks was targeting the people who deserved it the least and while your heart's in the right place I'm pretty sure that joining a military prosecuting an unprovoked land-grab invasion with the stated intent of genocide is morally different from living peacefully minding your own business in Vasylivka #18, that it is in fact the civilian who deserved it less, even if the mobik was pushed to do it by a bad economic situation. Not to say that the mobik really deserves it, but you're the one who ranked deserving to begin with. I know that's not a hardline position for you and I'm not trying to browbeat you about it, but I think that is some of what motivates people to respond to and contradict you rather than agreeing with your real position which is that mobiks are also human beings and that shouldn't be lost sight of. Which I think we're all on board with. Not to reopen the derail. It was worth mentioning and I'm not trying to silence you. Futanari Damacy posted:If we're to be successful with this, one thing that has to stop is the false equivalencies. They're a huge red flag for a number of reasons. I take your point and don't mean to draw the broad equivalency, but there's plenty of Russians rolling around with some of those same stolen symbols in a direct reference to actual OG Nazis they idolize. (Some Ukrainians too, but my understanding is not as many.) Some of them really are ideologically on the same page and it's a fair comparison. It's not all of them though, and I agree with you and the esteemed Mr Godwin that it's overused. That said I vividly remember the moment of realization when the US was in high gear trying to normalize "Enhanced Interrogation" and the dusty vaults of my memory creaked open to reveal "Verschärfte Vernehmung" to my abject horror. I mean, it's a direct translation, 1:1. Not to say that the US was deliberately copying the Nazi playbook or itself a Nazi organization, but at that point I do have a strong inclination to point to the Nazis and say "you're being like them" as a way of shocking people out of their justifications.
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Mar 6, 2023 05:59
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Unfortunately, by making this such a drawn-out debacle there are now more disingenuous tourism posts than genuine ones, and little motivation to tackle them when everyone knows how much time and energy those involved have for whipping up a giant melodramatic shitfit on challenge. For what it's worth the VFW thread seems to be immune to this kind of bait, and is not currently the bête noire of tedious goblins who are only here to generate Premium Content for the boys back at Goblin HQ, so good luck... but no thank you. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 6, 2023 06:02
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Super Foul Egg posted:Unfortunately, by making this such a drawn-out debacle there are now more disingenuous tourism posts than genuine ones, and little motivation to tackle them when everyone knows how much time and energy those involved have for whipping up a giant melodramatic shitfit on challenge. Stop contributing to the bullshit and post content then MAPS: https://twitter.com/War_Mapper/status/1632531935808421890?s=20 Interactive time-lapse of the war by the ISW: https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/733fe90805894bfc8562d90b106aa895 Soundtrack for reading: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmqLVrUXsTQ HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 06:28
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Futanari Damacy posted:If we're to be successful with this, one thing that has to stop is the false equivalencies. They're a huge red flag for a number of reasons.  russia shouldn't publicly, openly frame their war as a genocidal war of conquest aimed at the specific destruction of Ukrainian identity and Ukrainian state if they don't want to be compared to other countries famous for genocide and wars of conquest
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Mar 6, 2023 06:31
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Futanari Damacy posted:If we're to be successful with this, one thing that has to stop is the false equivalencies. They're a huge red flag for a number of reasons. It's an an analogy, not a direct equivalence. And while it's an often overused analogy, it's a reasonable one in this case. In both cases you had a side that was clearly in the wrong, and soldiers fighting for that side that didn't have much choice in the matter. Putin doesn't have to be as bad as Hitler, or worse than Hitler for the analogy to be valid. Where I bristle, and I think others do too, is when attempts to acknowledge the tragedy of those soldiers dying appear to leak over into supporting the cause they're fighting for.
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Mar 6, 2023 06:33
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Reminder that Russian state media accidentally released their Ukrainian Solution manifesto and quickly deleted it once it was clear the 3 day special military operation was utterly hosed https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html The offensive of Russia and the new world posted:A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia's military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era - and in three dimensions at once. And of course, in the fourth, internal Russian. Here begins a new period both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system - but this is worth talking about separately a little later.
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Mar 6, 2023 06:36
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
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Mar 6, 2023 06:37
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWZVKU5imx0
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Mar 6, 2023 06:37
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HonorableTB posted:Reminder that Russian state media accidentally released their Ukrainian Solution manifesto and quickly deleted it once it was clear the 3 day special military operation was utterly hosed Is this a new thing in Russia that only really started with Putin? The "everyone is trying to attack us all the time" thing? It sure seems like there's a lot more bloviating about other countries doing what they want and it being an attack on Russian ideals recently, even before 2022.
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Mar 6, 2023 06:40
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Super Foul Egg posted:Unfortunately, by making this such a drawn-out debacle there are now more disingenuous tourism posts than genuine ones, and little motivation to tackle them when everyone knows how much time and energy those involved have for whipping up a giant melodramatic shitfit on challenge. 
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Mar 6, 2023 06:40
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
yeah uh this is more the line I should have drawn, I was way too conciliatory there 
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Mar 6, 2023 06:41
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
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Mar 6, 2023 06:42
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Toxic Mental posted:Is this a new thing in Russia that only really started with Putin? The "everyone is trying to attack us all the time" thing? It sure seems like there's a lot more bloviating about other countries doing what they want and it being an attack on Russian ideals recently, even before 2022. No, the Russian state apparatus has more or less always been on the paranoid side of things (getting repeatedly invaded by external forces for several hundred years will do that), but what you're seeing there didn't really start until the post-WW2 years as the USSR recovered from the trauma of losing 25-30 million people in the war. And from there on the Russian state never really fully recovered and the paranoia has ramped up quite a lot (to the extent you see in that article) with Putin. He has been remarkably consistent about his views on Ukraine dating back to at least 2008 (the most I can find with a cursory search), he has always viewed Ukraine the way he does now. One of the main drivers for Putin's beliefs here is a man named Alexander Dugin and his philosophy, I can do an effort post about Dugin later if anyone wants If it's helpful, keep this in your mind: modern Russian governments (1991-onward), the closer you get to Putin's current reign, "enemies out to get us" pretty much means "anyone doing anything Russia doesn't like". They define "nazis" the same way - to Putin and his kind, "nazi" is just anyone not bowing to what the Kremlin wants, and they must be denazified. poo poo's weird HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 06:42
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
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Mar 6, 2023 06:45
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HonorableTB posted:Vladimir Putin has assumed, without a drop of exaggeration, a historic responsibility by deciding not to leave the solution of the Ukrainian question to future generations.
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Mar 6, 2023 06:54
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Hi thread, I'm just posting to let you know that I'm also still here and to thank CommieGIR and Toxic Mental for being  Also, thanks to all the regular posters for coming back and not being too rude to the other threads during the hiatus.  Let's do this!
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Mar 6, 2023 07:44
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I also wanted to say I appreciate all the new posters in the thread. They've been posting thorough earnest opinions and even if I don't 100% agree with their opinions they're at least honest and I'm glad they're here to give perspective. People are dying and emotions are running high, it makes sense that it's contentious. I don't quite agree with the Wehrmacht apologism comparison entirely either, and this is doing a lot more good than the previous position of both sides yelling over each other. Just wanted to give my 2 cents meta-wise while a mod was doing the same
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Mar 6, 2023 07:55
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I love that this thread is back, it's blend of information and silly jokes was the only way I could keep up to date on things without rage/depression spiraling Do u think that putin gets scared when he hears about abrams/challengers/leopards coming to ukraine??? sorry if this ofends anyone but i thought it was a funny thing haha. and i would like to know if any of you have any pics of tanks going to ukraine while putin looks nervous or embarrassed i just want to see it for a few laughs haha. another thing i am wondering is what do you think the tanks are like to ride in haha im just curious for laughs haha i would like to ride in a tank.
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Mar 6, 2023 08:31
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
Correct wb thread
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Mar 6, 2023 08:52
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
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Mar 6, 2023 09:27
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Nyooom https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1632661053052973057?t=cxYAmi5ltVuvbPL5PFfRiQ&s=19
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Mar 6, 2023 10:02
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grumplestiltzkin posted:I love that this thread is back, it's blend of information and silly jokes was the only way I could keep up to date on things without rage/depression spiraling Same. I also don't know that I particularly want to discuss this war with anyone in person, because this war depresses the poo poo out of me and drains me of whatever hope for humanity I had retained through the pandemic. I appreciate being able to discuss it here with some dipshit idiocy sprinkled in on the side.
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Mar 6, 2023 10:11
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FirstnameLastname posted:
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Mar 6, 2023 10:17
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Karate Bastard posted:Same. I also don't know that I particularly want to discuss this war with anyone in person, because this war depresses the poo poo out of me and drains me of whatever hope for humanity I had retained through the pandemic. I appreciate being able to discuss it here with some dipshit idiocy sprinkled in on the side. Depending on where you’re at, I recommend you do give chatting about it IRL a shot, but you’d know if it’s safe for you to do so. Don’t let it eat up inside of you because that poo poo can fester, and you deserve better than that.
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Mar 6, 2023 10:32
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https://twitter.com/vidtranslator/status/1632664590835421184 https://twitter.com/intermarium24/status/1632511739018334215
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Mar 6, 2023 10:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWQUkRKqp2E gently caress Rusky invaders, God save the unarmed
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Mar 6, 2023 10:46
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
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