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What is the most powerful flying bug?
This poll is closed.
🦋 15 3.71%
🦇 115 28.47%
🪰 12 2.97%
🐦 67 16.58%
dragonfly 94 23.27%
🦟 14 3.47%
🐝 87 21.53%
Total: 404 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
The 12k is just the guy's estimate, but if they're really sending the reserve poo poo intended for counteroffensives into Bakhmut that's wild. Big "throwing good money after bad" energy.

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Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007

Ardennes posted:

That time in prison made them ravaging zombies, hurling themselves at the enemy with shovels.

lol that UK tweet has hosed up the gip thread. i looked in there and they're talkin about shovels for like 3 pages

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Homeless Friend posted:

drat they really hosed them up with this penal army strat

https://twitter.com/LeSommierRgis/status/1632606642641543168

Should have known, the zombies always win in the end.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
What happened to never reinforcing failure??

Is this Ukraine buying time, or has their leadership lost focus on the bigger picture?

fizzy
Dec 2, 2022

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Homeless Friend posted:

drat they really hosed them up with this penal army strat

https://twitter.com/LeSommierRgis/status/1632606642641543168

That's a really selective reading that glides past the costs being inflicted on Wagner as described in the article.

quote:

...

No military in a democratic society can keep sending wave after wave of soldiers to near-certain death to gain another few hundred yards. Even Russia’s regular armed forces, known for their high tolerance of casualties, shy away from dispatching troops on clearly suicidal missions. Yet it is precisely such an approach that has allowed Wagner to come to the verge of capturing Bakhmut, at a cost that Ukrainian and Western officials estimate at tens of thousands of Russian casualties.

...

One of Wagner’s men captured on the Bakhmut front, a 48-year-old recidivist with convictions for murder, robbery and drug offenses, said that he was trained for three weeks with basically one skill: how to crawl and advance in a forest, an indication that he wasn’t expected to survive his first mission. Then, the night of Jan. 29, two Wagner squads, each containing five regular convicts and one commander, also an inmate, were ordered to assault a fortified Ukrainian outpost.

“Two machine guns were blazing at us, people were being torn to bits, but they kept telling us: keep crawling ahead and dig in. It was just plain dumb,” said the man, who was captured by Ukrainian forces in March, in an interview.

...

Four of the 12 members of that attack group remained combat-fit by the end of the night, with most others killed, he said. The Wagner fighter said he was allowed to retreat by the morning because of injuries to his arm. Even for the troopers who had sustained serious wounds, a pullback without permission wasn’t an option.

“If you don’t push ahead and do what you’re told, you simply get nullified,” he said, using Wagner’s term for on-the-spot executions, often with a sledgehammer blow to the head. “Everyone knows that.”

In a hospital in Russian-occupied Luhansk, a Wagner doctor declared the man fit for service after ascertaining that he could still move his trigger finger. He was sent back to the front line northwest of Bakhmut on a detail evacuating casualties in late February. The number of the dead Wagner men that he saw in the nine days before his capture was in the hundreds, with fatalities outnumbering nonlethal casualties, he said. “We would just stack up all the corpses in one place and leave them there, there was no time to deal with them.”

Wagner didn’t provide his detail with food, he said, so the men scavenged for the rations of the dead in the debris-filled trenches that kept freezing and turning back into pools of mud.

The Wagner soldier was captured after he got lost and stumbled into a Ukrainian position.

Soldiers from Ukraine’s Third Storm Brigade said that a Wagner body in the no man’s land ahead of their position remained there untouched for five days. Then, one night, one of other Wagner troopers crawled out to remove the man’s backpack, leaving the corpse behind.

...

Mr. Prigozhin has repeatedly labeled Russia’s top military commanders as incompetent or worse. Russia’s military has lost well over a hundred tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, as well as hundreds of men, in a fruitless push to take the strategic town of Vuhledar in recent weeks. It has failed to achieve breakthroughs in other areas, too.

...

Mr. Prigozhin’s conflict with the Ministry of Defense in Moscow means that the prison recruitment for Wagner has stopped, capping the organization’s ability to continue with its current tactic of human waves. Even if Mr. Prigozhin persuades the Kremlin to restore access to Russia’s prison camps, news of Wagner’s staggering losses in Bakhmut have already filtered back, deterring many remaining potential recruits.

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007
yeah but they clearly don't care about these guys. they were promised clemency in 6 months. that is: if its too good to be true, it is

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
Fizzy what your missing is the fact that a strategically important city like bakhmut was taken by a completely expendable firce of mercenaries and prisoners and the russian army itself is still out there getting ready for a big punch while the ukranians have been completely bled dry and exhausted. if the casualty and POW numbers for the ukranians are true ukraine is 100% going to get knocked out if russia makes its next big move soon.

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
Dead outnumbering wounded is a give away tbh.

Al-Saqr posted:

Fizzy what your missing is the fact that a strategically important city like bakhmut was taken by a completely expendable firce of mercenaries and prisoners and the russian army itself is still out there getting ready for a big punch while the ukranians have been completely bled dry and exhausted. if the casualty and POW numbers for the ukranians are true ukraine is 100% going to get knocked out if russia makes its next big move soon.

Meh, the West will have another narrative cooked up by then, the state of the war doesn’t matter. Russia is losing harder than ever.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 10:48 on Mar 6, 2023

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
What bakhmut really needs is the foreign legion to back them up, that should pull them through. Where's captain peg leg when you need him?

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.
Are there any indications that Russia has the forces in position to push past Bakhmut and that weather conditions will allow that?

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

1stGear posted:

Are there any indications that Russia has the forces in position to push past Bakhmut and that weather conditions will allow that?

That's the big mystery right now, if they're gonna strike it's gonna be a month or so from now when the dirt dries, the issue is if they actually have any forces ready in the first place or are the completely dead on their feet the way Nato has been telling us.

fizzy
Dec 2, 2022

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Al-Saqr posted:

strategically important city like bakhmut

Citations needed.



quote:

https://www.businessinsider.com/bakhmut-russia-grinds-for-9-months-city-limited-strategic-importance-2023-2

Russia has spent 9 months bleeding troops to try to capture a city with limited strategic value, experts say
Feb 14, 2023, 9:27 PM

Russian forces have been fighting for nine months to take the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut, in one of the longest and bloodiest battles of the war.

But the city appears to have limited strategic importance to Russia's war effort, with the country seemingly committed to the grinding battle in an effort to gain a symbolic victory after months of losses and stalemates, experts say.


quote:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...sh=239680b86e75

The Bloody Battle For Bakhmut Offers A Possible Preview Of How Year Two Of The Ukraine War Will Go
Feb 24, 2023,06:30am EST

Some cities and towns have obvious military value. They might command the high ground or lie astride strategic roads, rail lines or a navigable river. They might be the home of a tank factory or some other vital industry.

Bakhmut doesn’t meet any of these criteria. The closest thing it has to a strategic quality is its proximity to several major roads connecting the free Ukrainian cities in western Donbas. But Bakhmut is no more important as a transportation node than, say, any random town to its northwest.


quote:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/01/europe/bakhmut-ukraine-explainer-russian-military-intl/index.html

Russian fighters are edging into the city of Bakhmut. Here’s what you need to know
Updated 5:42 AM EST, Thu March 2, 2023

While Bakhmut’s strategic importance should not be overstated, its capture could still carry a very welcome symbolic impact for Russian President Vladimir Putin.


quote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/03/bakhmut-battle-ukraine-russia/

Why Russia and Ukraine are fighting over Bakhmut
March 3, 2023 at 11:33 a.m. EST

Before the war, Bakhmut was mostly known as a center of the salt industry. But the relentless, intensifying fight for control of the city — which analysts say holds little strategic importance — has made it a rallying cry and political battleground for both sides.

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
I think it's nice that the captured prisoner gave a detailed account that completely supports the human wave narrative being pushed in the west :)

Neurolimal
Nov 3, 2012
captured uruk-hai reveals that orks have very tiny penises, can only get erect when bringing ukrainian toilet back to chieftess

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012
Might as well just be posting the Ukrainian MoD reports. Or hell bring back reports from Ukrainian mayors who somehow know what's going on in the cities they evacuated from.

Can we get some phone videos of guys talking in Russian and saying how they're beat really bad and are thinking of retreating too?

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007
this thread: crying and arguing about human waves, its all historical revisionism, etc

wagner: wow... this poo poo actually works lol, easy money

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007
then on flipside we have fizzy

bahkmut: the city with no value but also apparently some of the AFU's best units???

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

fizzy posted:

Citations needed.

why didnt you respond to the actual point I was making

Death By The Blues
Oct 30, 2011
Oleksiy and Horbatenko the soldiers that they interview in that article, which basically calls Russians Orc untermensch both serve in the Ukraines 3rd Storm Brigade, wonder what they were before:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Separate_Assault_Brigade_(Ukraine)

Huh...

Death By The Blues has issued a correction as of 11:07 on Mar 6, 2023

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
if bakhmut was so unimportant why did the Ukrainians fight so hard to keep it

Pistol_Pete
Sep 15, 2007

Oven Wrangler
It's still striking to me just how completely it all matches the ww2 German propaganda: the savage, starving, ragged penal battalions being flung into machine gun fire by their equally savage but heartless commanders, while the disciplined and technologically superior westerners are gradually forced back by the sheer weight of Russian corpses.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

gradenko_2000 posted:

if bakhmut was so unimportant why did the Ukrainians fight so hard to keep it

You think this is fighting hard? They're only using a fraction of their true power. They're merely toying with the russkies

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007

Al-Saqr posted:

why didnt you respond to the actual point I was making

they're a gbs-manufactured news aggregator bot, you need to post the correct console commands

something like
code:
 /post_reply <#post id> -p -V --sources:OSINT, WaPo
should do it

Homeless Friend
Jul 16, 2007
all the articles are like "its only next to a highway" but its like yes. its the highway lol (M03)

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

You think this is fighting hard? They're only using a fraction of their true power. They're merely toying with the russkies

The Ukrainians very clearly have a massive pre-war army in reserve and they are only sending newly trained units with Western toys is to give them a little experience at easily mowing down waves of orcs.

I don’t even know why the Russians try, probably their barbaric culture.

CODChimera
Jan 29, 2009

gradenko_2000 posted:

if bakhmut was so unimportant why did the Ukrainians fight so hard to keep it

yeah, surely they would've safely retreated days maybe weeks ago if it was unimportant

CODChimera
Jan 29, 2009

Homeless Friend posted:

this thread: crying and arguing about human waves, its all historical revisionism, etc

wagner: wow... this poo poo actually works lol, easy money

is it funnier that people think they're doing human wave attacks or the fact that they think human wave attacks would be effective

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
nato is now on PR damage control over losing bakhmut

https://twitter.com/azgeopolitics/status/1632684470774923265?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
also seeing africans stand up to their former colonial masters is the greatest contribution china has made to humanity, thank you so much to china for helping africa assert independence. this video makes me smile like that namibian president dressing down that wierdo german dude video did.

https://twitter.com/azgeopolitics/status/1632661299384516609?s=46&t=kY7HKwmb1RBg9U186lxtbg

Al-Saqr has issued a correction as of 11:28 on Mar 6, 2023

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
It is mostly an ornamental meat grinder.

Weka
May 5, 2019

That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

CODChimera posted:

is it funnier that people think they're doing human wave attacks or the fact that they think human wave attacks would be effective

It's not like Mexico is a feared military power.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Homeless Friend posted:

all the articles are like "its only next to a highway" but its like yes. its the highway lol (M03)



I'm glad some lessons are sticking with the thread regulars

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

fizzy posted:

Citations needed.

what exactly do you think militaries fight over?

you do know its not like games with victory points right? The press's obsession with 'strategic significance' is to obfucate Russian objectives: the Ukraine military

IE any town or city with Ukrainian troops in it is a strategic target. If Ukraine puts 12,000 good men in a city, thats a really strategic target.

I find it really loving weird that the super pro-ukrainian side is laughing this up as another silly Russian thing while 12,000 people are left to die in a place that their own side supposedly thinks is unimportant. Gross.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/oysterFAKE/status/1632319998151786497

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer
hello m'am i regret to inform you that your husband, father to your 2 children, died today fighting to protect a place of small strategic value

no we wouldn't let him retreat, we thought it was funny

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
If the Western narrative also also shifted to that they are using up their newly trained reserves, delaying (possibly indefinitely) a spring offensive, what is the route for victory for the Ukrainians? They are just suppose to keep on taking hits until Russia goes home?

Also, even if you didn’t want to go on the offensive, those reserves may have been pretty helpful versus a Russian offensive. Luckily, Russia is completely spent I guess because all they had was penal battalions.

January 6 Survivor
Jan 6, 2022

The
Nelson Mandela
of clapping
dusty old cheeks


( o(

My "Raytheon" nickname is raising a lot of questions about who benefits from the war that are already answered by my nickname

Chillgamesh
Jul 29, 2014


The Ghost of Kyiv sure is a great pilot

Regarde Aduck posted:

hello m'am i regret to inform you that your husband, father to your 2 children, died today fighting to protect a place of small strategic value

no we wouldn't let him retreat, we thought it was funny

Not only was he killed defending a useless town that we don't care about, he died fighting a horde of unwashed brutes who would simply starve to death from lack of supplies if we left them alone long enough.

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

ship of sovereign country freely moving about in international waters. news at 11?

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Weka
May 5, 2019

That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

mila kunis posted:

ship of sovereign country freely moving about in international waters. news at 11?

That dastardly Ruzzian ship was helping the AUTHORITATRIAN people of Syria.

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