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If they sped up the Warhammer vault thing and gave it some decent search functionality I’d absolutely subscribe just for old white dwarf access, it’s a nightmare trying to research stuff by flicking through old copies which are getting really brittle at this point
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Mar 6, 2023 10:28
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kanonvandekempen posted:I wonder how succesful the whole warhammer+ paid subscription has been for them. I feel like they would have been much better off doing a deal with Netflix or Disney or whatever. I can't imagine people have been very excited with the slow pace of new content from warhammer+. Netflix to announce their partnership with GW Hate, Death and Robots (also Skulls)
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Mar 6, 2023 10:39
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Assuming that there's something to it, the concept behind the Armor of Contempt would be really useful to the Imperium if they actually deigned to use it on a wide scale. Instead, the whole of the Sabbat crusade is going to have to be executed for knowing that Chaos exists. The end of the Gaunts Ghost series is going to be when the Tanith First are finally allowed to settle a forested planet with big tall hardwood trees that are kinda like nalwood, and the 50 surviving vets from Tanith will have a few months to try and re-create proper sacra, until a Grey Knights/Ordo Malleus task force shows up and kills them all.
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Mar 6, 2023 13:35
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I've got a bit of headcanon rolling around I wanted to run past this thread. In the 40k verse, Humanity is allergic to the Warp. Or possibly the Warp is allergic to humanity. There aren't stories of other species spontaneously bursting into Daemons. It took the Eldar hundreds of thousands of years of the insanest excess of all time to make Slaanesh happen. Orks don't get possessed despite being Khorney as all hell( Tau are invisible to the Warp, Tyrannids shut it down by themselves - humanity is the only species that makes the Warp go loving crazy so quickly and violently. Why? Because humanity is uniquely warp-active. Perhaps it's the Emperor's fault, perhaps it's something intrinsic to the species. Either way, humanity in 40k is allergic to the warp and that's why they're turbofucked in the long term.
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Mar 6, 2023 14:07
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I don’t know if that’s true. There are multiple examples of entire species corrupted by the Warp (Saruthi, Laer). Maybe it’s that humans have so much psyker potential that when they ARE corrupted, the consequences are much more severe.
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Mar 6, 2023 14:20
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That or the propaganda has been so successful that when someone does pop inside out and turn into a daemon everyone around believes to the depths of their soul that it is, indeed, A Very Bad Thing.
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Mar 6, 2023 14:40
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I've been reading the siege series and catching up on lore from the shaskais subreddit. It's all a bit overwhelming, the loyalists are getting whipped left, right and center and it's just sucking the air out of the room. They just lost a whole fleet to Khorne and the arks are wrecking poo poo everywhere. It's gone beyond poo poo is tough to when is it all going to end.
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Mar 6, 2023 14:54
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There are always as many fleets of (chaos spacemarines, loyalist Navy, insert one) as the plot requires
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Mar 6, 2023 14:57
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That is fair, because the Blood Angels, White Scars and Fists should be absolutely decimated after the siege.
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Mar 6, 2023 14:59
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:I don’t know if that’s true. There are multiple examples of entire species corrupted by the Warp (Saruthi, Laer). Maybe it’s that humans have so much psyker potential that when they ARE corrupted, the consequences are much more severe. Arquinsiel posted:That or the propaganda has been so successful that when someone does pop inside out and turn into a daemon everyone around believes to the depths of their soul that it is, indeed, A Very Bad Thing. Fair points. I think it might be an interesting POV for, say, an Eldar to have. Basically telling the monkeighs 'you can't handle your liquor' on the level of the soul.
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Mar 6, 2023 15:03
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Dodoman posted:That is fair, because the Blood Angels, White Scars and Fists should be absolutely decimated after the siege. Things have escalated a smidge since then.
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Mar 6, 2023 15:11
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There's also the whole issue that a lot of Warp fuckery and current era species' relations to it are fall out from the War in Heaven between the Old Ones and the Necrons/C'tan. The Eldar and Orks are specifically created to be weapon races using the Warp on some level. Tau are drawn as being basically non-psychic, Tyranids are psychic in some way but since they operate as a hive mind it makes sense that they don't really interact with Warp in the same way as species that have all these conflicting emotions and interactions. The Hive mind also would be a level of potency and resiliency that probably terrifies most Warp entities. I don't think most races have the same prevalence of powerful psykers that humanity does or the same latent level of psker ability (so that even non-psykers can feed and influence the Warp). Erda in one of the Siege novels has a pretty good analogy of the Warp and warp entities. Spoilered out of extreme caution but half of this will be my own extrapolation: basically, as I understood it, she gives an adaptation of Plato's cave allegory - the Warp is like a fire we all have our backs to. Humanity is large and opaque enough it causes us to cast shadows on the wall. Those shadows are daemons/the Gods as well as whatever other warp magic/psychic abilities we use, they're not real and in fact they're caused by us. Skilled/knowledgeable Warp users can use rituals and talismans like wooden frames or objects, put between us and the fire to protect us and cast the kind of shadows we want them to. Guys like Erebus, Lorgar or Horus are essentially trying to get the shadows to be as big and dark as possible and doing so by pushing themselves or others into the fire, feeding it and destroying ourselves in the belief that they can control/become those shadows or that the shadows are somehow real beings that can reward them. In this analogy I'd guess other races are either too small to cast much of a shadow i.e. affect the Warp (Tau) or they have always known to avoid getting too close to the fire (Eldar, who were basically engineered to be Warp users). End and the Death speculation: I think Emperor as planned to become 5th chaos god is looking very likely. The 4, through Horus, are pushing him to start taking on Warp energy and unleash his emotions. I'd guess that getting big E to start directly channeling the Warp is phase 1-2 and then killing Sanguinius is meant to be the breaking point. The book is full of reference to Sanguinius being Emp's favourite. It would also make sense that the goal is to have big E basically channel all the souls of humanity, ending them as a race the same way the Eldar were and become, probably the Chaos god of Hate. I'd guess that Oll Persson does something to stop him that gets mythologised into trooper Persson standing between Horus and the Emperor but it's all still very up in the air and I feel like Dan is going to have a few twists left to throw. I definitely like that it's adding some depth to these events that, if anything, has increased the stakes beyond what all the lore had up until now (which was pretty apocalyptic). I'm interested to see how close Rogal comes to embracing Khorne and how much/little that effects him.
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Mar 6, 2023 15:21
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kanonvandekempen posted:I wonder how succesful the whole warhammer+ paid subscription has been for them. I feel like they would have been much better off doing a deal with Netflix or Disney or whatever. I can't imagine people have been very excited with the slow pace of new content from warhammer+. I subscribed hoping the Astartes guy would be leading a team pumping out cool poo poo constantly. Which is disappointing because what the gently caress GW. So far, i've mostly enjoyed everything they've done, but Astartes still wipes the floor with one hand behind it's back. That said, the fact they give you a mini that would generally cost the same, if not more, than the subscription itself makes it easier to swallow. The minis have been pretty drat cool, and not just lame throwaways. If they stopped doing that, I'd be subbing for a month once a year to catch up.
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Mar 6, 2023 16:17
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MrNemo posted:I'm interested to see how close Rogal comes to embracing Khorne and how much/little that effects him. I really liked that part of the book. It was a clever, interesting way to subvert that character's strengths.
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Mar 6, 2023 16:28
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habeasdorkus posted:I really liked that part of the book. It was a clever, interesting way to subvert that character's strengths. Chaos getting creative with time is one of the parts of the story I like. Guilliman will arrive in a day, and he will arrive in a day for the next few months.
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Mar 6, 2023 17:10
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Finished listening to End and The Death. Very good. (Talk about the Bequin books mixed in the spoilers fyi) So like I'm not the only one that is certain that the third Bequin book is going to be a really big shakeup right? Abnett was not holding back on references and setups. I really liked the Horus sections in the book, but only after the final reveal. Horus suffering warp dementia and not really understanding what was happening felt really lame, but then he goes on his Joker rant about how he was faking in order to lull the Emperor in and that actually Horus knows EXACTLY what he's doing, and he's fully committed to winning in the name of the Gods. Good! I hope they don't actually give Horus a microsecond of reptentance after the Emperor kicks his rear end like the old stories said, let him stay committed right up until his soul is destroyed. And some straigh up-and-down clarification on what the Alpha Legion was up to was very well-appreciated. They were hedging their bets and waiting to see what benefitted them the most. However, I think it's really worth noting that their final decision was to go loyalist, and that it only happened after Omegon became Alpharius. Lends a lot more credence to the shadow civil war Alpharius-v-Omegon theory about the Alpha's during the Heresy imo, which I always liked. My longshot theory? Alpharius in the Bequin books is Ingo Pech still operating on the 'Use Chaos for Our Benefit' condition, which aligns well with him joining Eisenhorn. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Tinfoil time! HUGE spoilers for The End and the Death below Fun theory! I did want to mention though that the reason Curze isn't on Terra is because Sanguinius locked him in a stasis pod and shot him into deep space at the end of Ruinstorm (it sucks so I don't blame anyone for not remembering that). He doesn't get out until decades after the Heresy, which is detailed in his Primarch book. Doesn't totally defeat the theory though but that's why the best Primarch isn't there for the big to-do. The Painted Count leads the very small Night Lords contingent on Terra (Where tf is Sevetar btw GW, finish his story already. I mean I know he's in jail with The Lion but weird to never tie up that plotline).
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Mar 6, 2023 18:50
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MrNemo posted:There's also the whole issue that a lot of Warp fuckery and current era species' relations to it are fall out from the War in Heaven between the Old Ones and the Necrons/C'tan. The Eldar and Orks are specifically created to be weapon races using the Warp on some level. Tau are drawn as being basically non-psychic, Tyranids are psychic in some way but since they operate as a hive mind it makes sense that they don't really interact with Warp in the same way as species that have all these conflicting emotions and interactions. The Hive mind also would be a level of potency and resiliency that probably terrifies most Warp entities. the chaos gods wanting to stop the emperor from becoming the 5th chaos god doesn’t make sense - they WANT a fifth chaos god to appear. Maybe the emperor wanted to “hijack” the Dark King’s ascension and occupy the metaphysical space the Dark King was meant to take up, but not actually become a chaos god? In any event the book is foreshadowing the emperor becoming the Dark King so hard that I’m sure that’s not what’s going to happen. Horus is clearly meant (by the Chaos Gods) to be a sacrifice to induce the Emperor to tip over the edge and become the Dark King, that much is obvious. My question is what does Lorgar know about all this? Cyrene knew that the war was meant to bring about the ascension of the Dark King. Lorgar must have known too, right? Avoiding the coming of the Dark King is Lorgar’s entire reason for turning to chaos - he explicitly turns after being shown the Fall of the Eldar and being told that’s what’s coming for humanity if he doesn’t do something. What is he up to? DaysBefore posted:My longshot theory? Alpharius in the Bequin books is Ingo Pech still operating on the 'Use Chaos for Our Benefit' condition, which aligns well with him joining Eisenhorn. I don’t know that this is a long shot, it seems self evidently true. I just assumed this while reading EATD DAD LOST MY IPOD fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 18:53
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:Horus is clearly meant (by the Chaos Gods) to be a sacrifice to induce the Emperor to tip over the edge and become the Dark King, that much is obvious. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:
I think Lorgar is as much a chump as any of the other Chaos Primarchs. He thinks he knows what's going on and is in a mutually beneficial relationship with the Gods, but ultimately he's just a tool.
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Mar 6, 2023 19:05
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That bit from Echoes says it best:quote:He heard the gods laughing as he died, and for the first time,
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Mar 6, 2023 19:25
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DaysBefore posted:My longshot theory? Alpharius in the Bequin books is Ingo Pech still operating on the 'Use Chaos for Our Benefit' condition, which aligns well with him joining Eisenhorn. Oh that is really good, I didn't even think about that. I think you are probably right. DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:the chaos gods wanting to stop the emperor from becoming the 5th chaos god doesn’t make sense - they WANT a fifth chaos god to appear. Maybe the emperor wanted to “hijack” the Dark King’s ascension and occupy the metaphysical space the Dark King was meant to take up, but not actually become a chaos god? No way. The Chaos gods absolutely do not want a 5th god. In fact, if any of them had a button that would wipe out the other gods they'd press it before you could finish the explanation of what it does. They are in perpetual opposition to each other. Another god to compete with is not in their interests at all. This is even backed up in the new Ark of Omen books where Vash'torr wants to become a 5th god and the chaos gods are against it.
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Mar 6, 2023 19:27
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D-Pad posted:Another god to compete with is not in their interests at all. It is if the end result is turning an extremely powerful entity dedicated to nullifying Chaos as a concept into just another player of The Great Game. Better to have him inside pissing out, than outside pissing in.
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Mar 6, 2023 19:34
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If Slaanesh being birthed caused the warp storms to quell then maybe when the Emperor finally gets off the pot the Great Rift will close.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:09
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Z the IVth posted:If Slaanesh being birthed caused the warp storms to quell then maybe when the Emperor finally gets off the pot the Great Rift will close. It uh, it didn't really do that.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:17
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:It is if the end result is turning an extremely powerful entity dedicated to nullifying Chaos as a concept into just another player of The Great Game. Better to have him inside pissing out, than outside pissing in. That's not what would happen. Even if the emperor dropped his opposition to chaos as a concept due to becoming a chaos god, he isn't going to be peaceful with the other gods and they'd be granting an already extremely powerful being a several orders of magnitude powerup. They absolutely do not want a 5th god, especially the emperor. Telsa Cola posted:It uh, it didn't really do that. It did actually. The unpassable warp storms in the long period before the great crusade were caused by Slaneesh's birth pangs. Once they were born the Eye of Terror opened, but the warp storms calmed down which is what allowed the Emperor to launch the great crusade and a big part of the reason he was on a timetable for unification as he needed to get started as soon as the warp was navigable.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:39
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D-Pad posted:That's not what would happen. Even if the emperor dropped his opposition to chaos as a concept due to becoming a chaos god, he isn't going to be peaceful with the other gods and they'd be granting an already extremely powerful being a several orders of magnitude powerup. They absolutely do not want a 5th god, especially the emperor. Slaneesh's birth was the warp equivalent of a nuke going off, which detonated a decent chunk of the galaxy and caused the creation of the Eye of Terror. So no, it didn't really cause them "quell" they went away, yes, because a large part of all that warp energy that was building exploded during the birth. Also, if anything, it would just cause another eye of terror to open and kill most of the human species off. Telsa Cola fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 20:50
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D-Pad posted:That's not what would happen. Even if the emperor dropped his opposition to chaos as a concept due to becoming a chaos god, he isn't going to be peaceful with the other gods and they'd be granting an already extremely powerful being a several orders of magnitude powerup. They absolutely do not want a 5th god, especially the emperor. Not sure I'm in board with that the gods are constantly buying with each other and definitely hate all the other gods but at the same time that's the game. They're all part of the Pantheon and if they genuinely believe the Emperor will be able to enact a plan that will overturn the whole game, it's infinitely preferable to introduce another player. Plus the fun gently caress you energy of using Horus and the traitor forces to achieve exactly what they thought they were opposing and the Emperor wasn't planning to do. If you're on team 'the Emperor was actually planning to become a Chaos god the whole time' then it raises some questions about why there are daemons getting ready for the Dark king if that's the plan the Pantheon are trying to stop. Also all the Horus parts are, I think, him seeing and thinking exactly what the Pantheon want him to. He's become a puppet far more than the Custodians he controlled to turn on the Emperor, he doesn't even realise he's thinking exactly what they want him to. I'm wondering if Abaddon arrives in time to play a role in stopping Horus as well, being left with the idea that the Emperor is destined to become the 5th chaos god and hating the Ruinous Powers for what they did to Horus and hating the Empire for basically serving the same powers.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:54
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The book makes it super clear that the Chaos Gods want the Dark King to arise. They chant his name, and the horses of daemons (which are extensions of the will of the gods) are making banners to him, writing his name etc. They want this - they want it more than anything. There are, potentially, infinite Chaos gods. Remember the book Sindermann and Mayer read about the City of Ruin talks about all the “empty thrones.”
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Mar 6, 2023 22:31
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:The book makes it super clear that the Chaos Gods want the Dark King to arise. They chant his name, and the horses of daemons (which are extensions of the will of the gods) are making banners to him, writing his name etc. They want this - they want it more than anything. And I loving love that twist on the events that we do know. I don't exactly how this plays out but it has the potential to add a pathos to Abaddon's black crusades against the Imperium, the Alpha legion civil wars and two facedness gain a really fascinating bit of tragedy if we imagine most of them are playing out hard coded hypno programming triggered shortly after the siege that they may not even be fully aware of any more. All in all I'm actually looking forward to how Abnett can screw up the ending to part II having not had to deal with any for Part I.
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Mar 6, 2023 23:08
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Telsa Cola posted:Slaneesh's birth was the warp equivalent of a nuke going off, which detonated a decent chunk of the galaxy and caused the creation of the Eye of Terror.
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Mar 7, 2023 01:33
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I can't stop myself from imagining the scenery of Apocalypse Now while reading Traitor General, despite Gereon seeming to be a fairly European planet
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Mar 7, 2023 01:43
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I felt Gereon was more like Nazi occupied eastern Europe or something, except with moth people living in the Pripet Marshes.
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Mar 7, 2023 02:17
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Arc Hammer posted:I felt Gereon was more like Nazi occupied eastern Europe or something, except with moth people living in the Pripet Marshes. It's the descriptions of the houses, farms (I think) and castles that do it. And the marshes were definitely a shift to Apocalypse Now.
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Mar 7, 2023 13:55
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Can I/should I read The End and the Death without having read The lions share of Horus Heresy stuff (and none of the siege books)? I read the original trilogy and a few here and there like The First Heretic that stood out. Now I'm trying to decide whether to drive in to the fun very end stuff or make a list to read in the meantime and read both parts of End and the Death back to back when the second is out.
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Mar 7, 2023 23:49
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SnakesRevenge posted:Can I/should I read The End and the Death without having read The lions share of Horus Heresy stuff (and none of the siege books)? The Siege books are very much a connected story. While a lot of the Heresy stuff is skippable, the Siege isn't.
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Mar 7, 2023 23:55
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Disagree, I read it without having read the Siege and more or less caught up pretty quick, albeit with some jumps over to the lexicanum to catch up on who the various characters were.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:07
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We really need to update the "good:read this / garbage:skip this" list. Basically, anything by Abnett, ADB, or Wraight is reliably good.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:22
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wiegieman posted:We really need to update the "good:read this / garbage:skip this" list. I made the mistake of reading the first Siege of Terra book and it was a horrible slog. The ADB/Wraight/Abnett were all fine, though Abnett gets a little fart-huffy with his thesaurus.
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Mar 8, 2023 01:24
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The archaic words were perfect for the setting I think. In TEATD
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Mar 8, 2023 01:28
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I think I posted this but I think the Vaults is Terra trilogy has supplanted eisenhorn as the new first read recommendation. Maybe vaults of terra needs a lot of background knowledge that I didn’t notice.
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Mar 8, 2023 01:30
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caedwalla posted:I made the mistake of reading the first Siege of Terra book and it was a horrible slog. The ADB/Wraight/Abnett were all fine, though Abnett gets a little fart-huffy with his thesaurus. I'm not caught up yet, but man, the first one is still my favorite of the series so far. That poo poo was epic.
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Mar 8, 2023 03:23
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