Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

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(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

frumpykvetchbot: Feb 20, 2004; PROGRESSIVE SCAN; Upset Trowel

Power Khan posted:

You might not have forgotten the bloodsoaked stroller.

or the bloodsoaked toy horse,

or the sarcastic ЗА ДЕТЕЙ ("for the children") message scrawled on the rocket booster.

this was about a week after the russians bombed the Mariupol drama theater, which was marked as refuge with ДЕТЙ printed on the ground in large letters visible from high altitude.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:34

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# ? May 28, 2024 19:34

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

frumpykvetchbot posted:

or the bloodsoaked toy horse,

or the sarcastic ЗА ДЕТЕЙ ("for the children") message scrawled on the rocket booster.

this was about a week after the russians bombed the Mariupol drama theater, which was marked as refuge with ДЕТЕЙ printed on the ground in large letters visible from high altitude.

Infuriating to remember.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:35

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1632723434533683200
Reportedly, up to now Bulgaria has sent a billion dollars in weapons.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:36

free hubcaps: Oct 12, 2009

CommieGIR posted:

Infuriating to remember.

And Russia has been making great efforts to restore the theater to its former glory (i.e. erase all evidence of their war crimes)

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:43

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

armpit_enjoyer posted:

� I would recommend talking about these people with caution. To avoid conflict with yourself.

Sadly too long for a thread title.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:44

GRECOROMANGRABASS: May 14, 2020

I just learned that Belarus and Russia both use the Ruble as currency. Is Belarus the reason the RUB hasn't collapsed in value completely? I remember Russia floundering to domestically produce formally imported goods and coming up with things like Thicc Lady Wine and it didn't seem to be an effort that would result in a sustainable economy..

Edit: wow, 1 ruble = barely more than one penny. It is subdivided into 100 kopeks. Can you actually buy things for a fraction of a penny at Belarus & Russian markets? If I go to Belarus and buy a bag of apples is it like, 1/36th of a cent per pound?

GRECOROMANGRABASS fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Mar 6, 2023

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:44

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1632622373290618881
Reportedly the purchase of ballistic missiles from Iran is on hold because Russia is afraid of having ATACMS or other long range weapons sent to Ukraine in retaliation.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:46

steinrokkan: Apr 2, 2011; Soiled Meat

The reason the ruble is "stable" is that the central bank effectively ceased all international currency trading. So it has a nominal value, but it's fictional.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:46

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

GRECOROMANGRABASS posted:

I just learned that Belarus and Russia both use the Ruble as currency. Is Belarus the reason the RUB hasn't collapsed in value completely? I remember Russia floundering to domestically produce formally imported goods and coming up with things like Thicc Lady Wine and it didn't seem to be an effort that would result in a sustainable economy..

Belarus is effectively a Russian satellite at this point, but a lot of this goes back to Belarus basically joining with Russia as a union state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:47

Rev. Bleech_: Oct 19, 2004; ~OKAY, WE'LL DRINK TO OUR LEGS!~

Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWZVKU5imx0

CW this poo poo man I'm still not over that goddamn courtyard

Tafferling posted:

Actually...
war is good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVESMxs4rbA

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:47

Barudak: May 7, 2007

The ruble is steady exactly how the Lebanese Pound is steady. There is an "official" exchange rate the government controls and it is completely out of sync with reality as experienced on the ground.

Edit: The official exchange rate until about 4 days ago was 1,500 LBP to a dollar. A number set in 1997. The new number is now 15,000. The street rate us over 80,000

Barudak fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Mar 6, 2023

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:48

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Barudak posted:

The ruble is steady exactly how the Lebanese Pound is steady. There is an "official" exchange rate the government controls and it is completely out of sync with reality as experienced on the ground.

And Russia is no longer really reporting what they base the value on, so its safe to say its founded in myth by now.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:48

zone: Dec 6, 2016

steinrokkan posted:

The reason the ruble is "stable" is that the central bank effectively ceased all international currency trading. So it has a nominal value, but it's fictional.

There was talk that when foreign currencies were purchased on the black market, you'd have to spend thrice or four times the nominal cost of a dollar/pound in rubles to get them. But that was months ago and I don't think there's been much reported about it since.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:49

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

CommieGIR posted:

Belarus is effectively a Russian satellite at this point, but a lot of this goes back to Belarus basically joining with Russia as a union state:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State

Yeah, Lukashenko called in the Russian security services to deal with its unrest, and the devil's bargain was Belarus becoming a union state.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:52

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Panzeh posted:

Yeah, Lukashenko called in the Russian security services to deal with its unrest, and the devil's bargain was Belarus becoming a union state.

Yeah there really isn't any real separation of the two anymore. Russia has bases in Belarus, operates from Belarus, Lukashenko rules largely at Putin's whim.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:55

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

It may have changed now but the various russian international markets were closed by the kremlin so a poo poo load of foreign held Roubles/stock can't be fire sold off. This makes it far far easier for russian central bank to prop up the value of it for illusion purposes of sanctions don't work.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:56

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

As for Belarus, it's support for russia is the government and boomers. Middle age to young people by and large want nothing to do with pootpoot and they hate Luka. Luka gets to keep power by beatings till morale improves. The last election was fudged so hard.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 14:58

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1632727952243687426
The useless Khodakovsky appears to have finally figured out that the Ukrainians are so tenacious because they're fighting for their land and homes, and asks why Russia can't be even half as tenacious as them in defense. He also believes that Melitopol is on the table for the next offensive.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:06

Set: Oct 30, 2005

The Putin regime's goal in Ukraine is not only to occupy the land, but to exterminate anything Ukrainian. Everything from the population and history to culture, they work tirelessly behind the frontlines, in the lands they have violently stolen. This is both a well planned and organized effort, and more information on how this is happening keeps coming out. This specific article is mainly about what happened to to the Kherson Regional Art Museum during the Russian occupation. All art that was deemed worth something was stolen, while all that was left behind were paintings of Lenin and some statues that were deemed to heavy to lug around by the Russian troops. Check out the link for pictures of the unwanted Lenin paintings and a short video where you get shots of the, now rather empty, museum.

Author: Antti Kuronen
Release date: 19.02.23
Link to untranslated article: https://yle.fi/a/74-20018640

quote:

Yle in Ukraine: Only the Lenin paintings were left when Russia looted the art treasures from the Kherson Art Museum

Russia has systematically emptied museums in occupied territories in Ukraine. According to experts, it is the biggest art heist since World War II.

KHERSON Ihor Valentinovič almost bursts into tears when asked about the significance of the stolen art treasures for Ukraine. He is the deputy director of the Kherson Regional Art Museum.

- The feeling is inconsolable and sad. How to live without national art? Our collection was one of the most important in the country. What can the children see now?

According to experts, Russia is trying to destroy Ukraine's cultural heritage. At least thirty museums have been looted or destroyed in the occupied territories of Ukraine.

According to the Russian government, the goal of the war of aggression is to destroy Ukraine as an independent state.

Even animals were taken from the zoo

According to the authorities, 15,000 art objects have been taken from Kherson alone. Among other things, libraries and the archaeological museum have been robbed. Statues have been taken from parks and animals were even taken from the Kherson Zoo.

One of the looted museums is the national art museum of the Kherson region. It is located in a magnificent building, the former city hall of Kherson.

The director of the museum says that the Russians came to the museum in trucks at the end of October. There were a large number of them, and the operation seemed well planned.

It took four days to empty the museum. During that time, the Russians took thousands of art objects.

- Fine art was the most valuable in this museum. They took Shabanov's icons, national art from the 19th century... Everything.

Valentinovič says that the Russians carried out priceless art objects and threw them into trucks. They did not protect the paintings, at best they wrapped the paintings in blankets.

The art museum's collections were in the basement because the museum is being renovated.

Ihor shows us the empty shelves. Nothing remains except some heavy picture frames and sculptures.

- Apparently these were too heavy or took up too much space.

The Lenin paintings were left behind

All fine art was taken, except for the Soviet paintings depicting Vladimir Lenin.

- It shows how empty their ideology is.

Joseph Stalin's memory has been honored a lot in Russia recently. In Russian propaganda, the war of aggression is connected with the restoration of the Soviet Union.

Still, Ukrainian art was fine for the Russians, but propaganda works praising Lenin and the Soviet era were left behind.

Ukrainian authorities estimate that the Russians have emptied or destroyed about thirty museums in the occupied territories.

The lost objects are irreplaceable for Ukraine. There are objects from Ukraine's prehistory to the present day.

The glass display cases were broken into

On the other side of the street is the historical museum of the Kherson region. That too was robbed.

The most valuable archaeological objects and, for example, historical weapons, were taken from the Kherson National Museum.

Everything points to the fact that experts have been involved in emptying the museums, because they have always known to take the most valuable objects.

Looting museums is not about the exploits of individual soldiers.

According to experts, it is a deliberate state operation, the goal of which is the destruction of Ukraine's cultural heritage.

- This is not about a soldier stuffing silverware into his backpack. This is something much, much bigger, said James Ratcliffe to the New York Times. Ratcliffe works for a British organization that tracks down stolen art.

The art stolen from this museum was apparently taken to the Russian-occupied Crimea to the Simferopol Art Museum.

Ihor cannot say what has happened since then. Are the art treasures still in Crimea or have they been taken to Russia?

- Russians call themselves liberators. True, they free us from all that we had. Once again. Why do they do that? I would think that the reasons must be sought above all in medicine, Ihor scoffs.

The war continues in Kherson. Russia is firing on the city from the other side of the Dnipro River. Shrapnel has also hit the museum.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:33

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Set posted:

The Putin regime's goal in Ukraine is not only to occupy the land, but to exterminate anything Ukrainian. Everything from the population and history to culture, they work tirelessly behind the frontlines, in the lands they have violently stolen. This is both a well planned and organized effort, and more information on how this is happening keeps coming out. This specific article is mainly about what happened to to the Kherson Regional Art Museum during the Russian occupation. All art that was deemed worth something was stolen, while all that was left behind were paintings of Lenin and some statues that were deemed to heavy to lug around by the Russian troops. Check out the link for pictures of the unwanted Lenin paintings and a short video where you get shots of the, now rather empty, museum.

Author: Antti Kuronen
Release date: 19.02.23
Link to untranslated article: https://yle.fi/a/74-20018640

Yup, the goal is basically well stated: Ethnically Cleanse Ukrainians and, if not that, outright genocide of Ukrainians. Its practically straight Russian Lebensraum. Remember than when Crimea was annexed one of the first things they started to do was force out ethnic Crimeans and Ukrainians in favor of Russian transplants.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:36

Set: Oct 30, 2005

CommieGIR posted:

Yup, the goal is basically well stated: Ethnically Cleanse Ukrainians and, if not that, outright genocide of Ukrainians. Its practically straight Russian Lebensraum. Remember than when Crimea was annexed one of the first things they started to do was force out ethnic Crimeans and Ukrainians in favor of Russian transplants.

Yeah, I remember they did the same in Kherson last summer as well. Every city, town and village that Ukraine loses to Russia goes through the same thing. I'll also share this article I translated, that I posted earlier in the GiP-thread.

We have seen again and again, that when Ukrainian forces liberate Russian occupied territories that the civilian populace in these places has been terrorized and worse. There has been a lot of discussion whether these actions by Russian forces have been deliberate genocidal actions or demoralized troops randomly taking out their frustrations on innocent civilians. While the latter does happen (I translated an interview with volunteer grave diggers in Bucha that describes living through that specific type of hell:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=4016636&pagenumber=398&perpage=40#post529792726), it is now clear that torture dungeons and straight up murder of civilians who may pose a threat to the Russian government is both planned and organized. The Guardian release a shorter article that Yle continued and interviewed experts for, about this horrifying topic. Be careful with the links, as they contain some unpleasant footage as well as text descriptions.

Author: Teemu Juhola
Release date: 04.03.23
Link to untranslated article: https://yle.fi/a/74-20020821
Link to Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/kherson-torture-centres-were-planned-by-russian-state-say-lawyers

quote:

New features of Russian atrocities against civilians were revealed in Ukraine - professor: "What makes it so brutal here is the systematic approach"

Researchers have revealed that Russian guards inflicted unimaginable brutality on civilians in the Kherson torture centers.

Electric shocks to the genitals, water torture and other brutal violence have been revealed in the investigation of the torture centers found in Kherson.

A team of researchers consisting of Ukrainian and international lawyers has been able to find out by interviewing the victims what kind of atrocities the Russian guards did to civilians in Kherson, located in southern Ukraine. 20 torture chambers were found in the city, which were maintained by the Russian administration during the occupation of the city.

Based on evidence gathered by a group called Mobile Justice, the torture centers were not randomly established, but planned and financed by the Russian state. The Russian security service, FSB, and the prison authorities were responsible for the operation of the centers.

The British newspaper The Guardian writes about the legal team's research results (check the link to the Guardian article earlier in this post).

Kherson has been added to a grim list

Professor Judith Pallot from the Alexander Institute of the University of Helsinki, who studies Russian penal institutions, says she is horrified, but not surprised by the brutalities revealed in Kherson.

- My first reaction to the news was that this is not surprising at all. Soon after the annexation of Crimea and the eastern parts of Ukraine, we started receiving reports about FSB-run prisons and other places where prisoners were tortured, Pallot tells Yle in a phone interview.

In the past, Russian soldiers' brutality against Ukrainian civilians has been revealed, for example, near the capital Kyiv in Bucha and Irpin, as well as in Izjum in eastern Ukraine.

- Now Kherson can be added to the same list of places where people have been tortured and deadly human rights crimes have been committed against prisoners, Pallot states.

According to the group of researchers, people with connections to the Ukrainian state and civil society were imprisoned in the Kherson torture centers. Those imprisoned included office holders, civic activists, journalists and teachers.

The researchers interviewed more than a thousand people in Kherson. The stories painted a picture of brutal violence. The guards tortured the prisoners with, among other things, electric shocks and water torture.

According to Pallot, the forms of torture used have been developed over the years in Russian prisons.

- There have been reports of similar torture in Russian prisons over the past two decades.

- One example is the use of telephones in electric torture. It doesn't leave much of a mark on the person being tortured. Hooded prisoners are also beaten with rubber bands through the back of their chairs. In Russia, it is important that torture leaves as few traces as possible on the victim.

According to researchers, the goal of the torture in Kherson was to terrorize and subjugate Ukrainians and to eliminate resistance and destroy Ukrainian identity.

Consistent persecution of civilians

Criminal law professor Kimmo Nuotio from the University of Helsinki considers the revelation of torture centers to be a significant matter.

- This paints a picture of the conscious persecution of the civilian population, Nuotio states in a telephone interview.

He says that the brutalities that have been revealed so far against Ukrainian civilians by Russia have mainly been connected in some way to Russia's military operations.

- There are new features here. The state connection is clearer than before. What is outrageous here is the systematic approach, i.e. if the FSB and the occupation administration have organized together to create a network of torture centers to which ordinary people have been taken.

According to Pallot too, according to the revealed information, the operation seems systematic. Kherson's torturers have not been furious and undisciplined soldiers who take prisoners at the front and torture or execute them.

- This looks planned. The perpetrators have not been soldiers who fought on the front line.

- The centers have been made, as it were, formally legal, when they have been transferred to the responsibility of the Russian prison authorities.

Electric shocks to the genitals

Survivors of the centers interviewed by The Guardian said that the torturers, among other things, gave electric shocks to the genitals of some male prisoners.

Some kind of re-education was also attempted, as the prisoners were forced to learn pro-Russian slogans, poems and songs.

At least one of the torture centers investigated was located in the basement of an office building. The other was a former youth prison.

More than a thousand people have provided evidence of the events to the investigative team. More than 400 people disappeared in Kherson during the Russian occupation. It is not known whether the missing were killed or transported to Russia.

Russia occupied Kherson for eight months, from the beginning of last March until November 11, when Ukrainian forces regained control of the city.

Pallot estimates that Kherson can be a central location for war crimes against civilians, as there were many protests in the city when the invaders arrived.

- Unfortunately, Kherson is unlikely to be the last place where something like this is revealed.

International law obliges to protect civilians

Nuotio states that international humanitarian law obliges warring parties to protect the civilian population. The atrocities that have now been revealed were committed by the occupation administration.

- Here, a regime of terror has been created in the occupied area, which has held the civilian population in its grip. It tells about systematic politics.

- We are talking about very serious things, such as war crimes and crimes against humanity. This is the deliberate and deliberate intimidation and destruction of the civilian population as part of a strategy of warfare.

The legal team that investigated the Herson atrocities was founded and led by the British lawyer Wayne Jordash. The group helps the Ukrainian Attorney General in the investigation of Russian war crimes.

More than 70,000 suspected war crimes have been reported in Ukraine so far. Most of them will be processed in Ukrainian courts.

The evidence collected by Ukrainian and international researchers from the areas under Russian control and later liberated by Ukraine tells about large-scale crimes by Russian soldiers, such as executions, torture, rape and forced transfers.

The International War Crimes Court ICC, based in The Hague, Holland, will focus on high-profile war crime suspects. The legal proceedings in these cases take time.

- It is possible that issues related to the whole of Kherson will still be discussed in The Hague. The basic problem is how to catch the perpetrators. The more systematic the operation has been, the higher up the chain of command we have to go, says Nuotio.

So far, the ICC has not issued any arrest warrants for suspected war crimes in Ukraine.

Russia is not a member of the ICC, but it has participated in other international agreements.

- If Russia were a normal country, it would investigate and accuse the suspects, but Russia is not a normal country", Nuotio states.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:41

ZogrimAteMyHamster: Dec 8, 2015

Just the usual petty bullshit from the Kremlin, Prigozhin suggesting possible 'betrayal' over lack of ammunition.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:42

Futanari Damacy: Oct 30, 2021; by sebmojo

If stopping genocide goes hand in hand with stopping the war, then I don't see how supporting peace could be a controversial position :shrug:

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:54

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

Futanari Damacy posted:

If stopping genocide goes hand in hand with stopping the war, then I don't see how supporting peace could be a controversial position

Do better

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:57

Jimlit: Jun 30, 2005

Futanari Damacy posted:

If stopping genocide goes hand in hand with stopping the war, then I don't see how supporting peace could be a controversial position

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:58

Futanari Damacy: Oct 30, 2021; by sebmojo

Tai posted:

Do better

I'm already praying for peace as hard as I can!

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:58

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Peace can happen any time Russia and their colonial transplants in Crimea pack their bags and leave for Russia again, and pay the bill for their dumb war in full.
https://twitter.com/vic_top555/status/1557376547605975040

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:59

Deus Ex Macklemore: Jul 2, 2004; Zelensky's Zealots

Futanari Damacy posted:

If stopping genocide goes hand in hand with stopping the war, then I don't see how supporting peace could be a controversial position

Guy breaks into my house and starts trashing poo poo of course I want it to stop, but I want him to leave. Giving him the bathroom and front hallway doesn't really make a lot of sense.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 15:59

Tigey: Apr 6, 2015

Futanari Damacy posted:

If stopping genocide goes hand in hand with stopping the war, then I don't see how supporting peace could be a controversial position

Except 'stopping the war' by 'supporting peace' won't stop the genocide - it will accelerate it as Russia moves to consolidate its gains.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 16:01

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Tigey posted:

Except 'stopping the war' by 'supporting peace' won't stop the genocide - it will accelerate it as Russia moves to consolidate its gains.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 16:02

Tai: Mar 8, 2006

Don't engage

# ? Mar 6, 2023 16:02

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Futanari Damacy posted:

If stopping genocide goes hand in hand with stopping the war, then I don't see how supporting peace could be a controversial position

Depends on what sort of peace you're after. If your version of peace means that Russia gets rewarded for its imperialism and genocide by keeping the land it's occupied, that's no peace. It's just a temporary lull.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 16:03