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Eifert Posting posted:The most important things to understand about Warhammer 40K is Roboute Guilliman was meant to sound like a French-Caribbean revolutionary The primarch of the Iron Hands is called Iron Hands. His hands are made of metal. Lionel Johnson was a 19th century poet best known for a poem called "The Dark Angel" Corvus Corax is the Linnean name for the common European raven. Chagatai Khan was one of Genghis's sons The 2nd and 11th legions were inspired by the fate of three Roman legions at the Battle of Teutoberg Forest, where they were wiped out by the Germans and never re-established. The Orks, famously, are football hooligans. The setting itself is a mashup of stolen ideas taken from 2000AD, Dune and Michael Moorcock, with a bunch of Catholic iconography. The whole thing was pretty low-effort and silly, so any attempts to build Grand Sweeping Lore or a coherent sci-fi universe on top of it all are basically like trying to build a house on sand. It's fun to watch people try but the best advice imo is just to not worry too much and enjoy smashing the fightymans together. edit: this is also why a lot of people find WHFB a more charming setting because it's all done with a wink to the reader about how silly it all is. Whereas 40k has lost that over the years. Zephro fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Dec 24, 2022 |
# ? Dec 24, 2022 16:14 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 15:14 |
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Space Marines just seem like wunderwaffens to me. Totally impractical on anything but a very local scale. I feel like the first dawn of war kind of illustrates this, as you progress through the levels, despite all your victories, the orks just keep taking more and more of the campaign map. Like the milky has about 10^11 stars at the lowest estimate and probably about 9 times as many planets. There aren't nearly enough chapters or marines to make much of a difference. But sure whatever, suspension of disbelief and all that. When you implement this sort of stuff into a game system though, then it gets interesting. Like what happens to a lot of high level spells in some games. They do a lot of damage, but they tend to cost too much, take too long to cast and or come too late in a game to be practical. Where a cheaper more reliable spell would end up doing more damage for less cost. Or kind of like in some space games where everyone guns for the big fuckoff battlecruiser spaceship that is aesthetically cool, but it practice it's just a giant, slow moving target, that's easily out maneuvered. That's how space marine seem to me, or I guess more egregiously the war titans, they've got all the theater and aesthetics that make them seem awesome. But functionally all they can do is secure a small region on one of 500 billion planets. The Imperium isn't going to win the war by way of its Space Marines.
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# ? Dec 24, 2022 16:18 |
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DaysBefore posted:The alpha was really fun Yeah, but getting that one requires some knowledge. (The Rock was a gay bar in the 80s and Lionel Johnson was 19th century poet and the author of "Dark Angel". He was also gay.) 40k is full of silly puns, some more obscure than others, some just taking the piss. It helps when one realizes that the guys who came up with it all (allegedly) took massive amounts of drugs.
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# ? Dec 24, 2022 17:22 |
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Even the mostly dead emperor inert on the golden throne absorbing massive amounts of resources was a dig at the English monarchy according to I want to say Gav.
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# ? Dec 24, 2022 19:46 |
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This article was a pretty insightful look into how the imagery of the 40k game shifted over the years and how you can still make a case for the game from a leftist's perspective. As someone who knows little about the setting and its history the Thatcherite Orks was amazing.
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# ? Dec 24, 2022 21:02 |
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Eifert Posting posted:Even the mostly dead emperor inert on the golden throne absorbing massive amounts of resources was a dig at the English monarchy according to I want to say Gav. It's a straight rip from the evil British empire of Granbretan, which comes from moorcocks deliciously trashy fantasy Hawkmoon books
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# ? Dec 25, 2022 03:24 |
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However I am sure moorcock was making the same point lol
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# ? Dec 25, 2022 03:25 |
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The galactic situation around Big E kind of put him on a timeline tbhquote:For ten thousand long years before the Fall, the warp had been riven with storm and tempest, making it almost impossible for the vessels of the lesser races to travel any great distance between the stars. With the birth of Slaanesh, the warp was becalmed, its rage temporarily spent. A new equilibrium was reached as Slaanesh joined the ranks of the Chaos Gods. With the warp storms around ancient Terra dispersed, the newly risen Emperor of Mankind was able to launch his Great Crusade. A new power took its place in the galaxy as isolated human worlds from across the stars were united under the same banner. In this way, the Fall of the Aeldari heralded the rise of the nascent Imperium, and so Mankind inherited the stars. An older reference: quote:https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Codex:_Eldar_(2nd_Edition) (1994) Big E timed his emergence from the age of Strife to try and line up with the calming of the warp storms so he could get his Great Crusade off. He's dealing with a pretty tight timeline here and a poor start. He needs to essentially solidfy his hold on Terra, build his infrastructure to take mankind to the stars and somehow find enough good soldiers to go crusadin while doing it fast enough to meet the rising Ork threat and addressing the Ragdan. Warden is 100% correct about the first two biggest threats being the Ragdan and the Ullanor orks which can both snuff out the nascent imperium before it really gets moving. The wider strategic galactic picture is the War in Heaven has finished, the old ones are gone, broken by the Enslavers who only gained a foothold in the galaxy due to the seeding of psychically sensitive races as a last ditch effort against the Necrons. The necrons are tired from kicking the C'tan and Old One's asses and have decided to take a quick nap to recharge and wait for the ascendant Eldar to fall....which they happily oblige with. The longer term issue is the full emergency of mankind as a psychic race who would throw the galaxy into turmoil, invite enslavers 2.0, juice the chaos gods and succumb to unfettered perils of the warp writ large. We also probably wanna be done doing whatever we're doing by the time the Necrons really wake up. We've reach a bit of a reset as far as the Galactic Order of Things is concerned and this is what the Emperor thrusts his Crusade into. He feels like he needs a leg up though so he went off to Molech and gets the Primarchs in return for ~something~ at some point. He kicks off Unification to solidfy his base and needs to power the engine of the crusade with enough qualified warriors to conquer the galaxy and some very qualified individuals to lead them so the Space Marines are born. (who promptly murder the beta versions of themselves at Mt.Ararat, we love efficiency, this comes back later). The primarchs get spirted away , but we still have the marines and these guys are the best we got as far as time and value goes so the references to them being bolted together ogres are spot on but off we go because we're on a timeline. quote:
The space marines have problems but we need them and these Primarchs to get their asses in gear and quit with the BS so that Big E can unify humanity under his flag and shove all of them into the webway where they can evolve safely and away from the chaos gods. Lorgar gets slapped at Monarchia, Magnus starts staring into the abyss and Angron is Angron because the Emperor does not care and needs to get his hands on as much of humanity as possible as fast as possible before everyone starts manifesting daemons and the bill from Molech comes due. quote:‘Come, my friend. This is good news. The Crusade would be immensely speeded, were we to recover what was lost that night. Imagine it – the Legions reunited with their primogenitors, just as was always intended.’ Big E knew about the heresy though and was attempting to stack the deck in his favor until Magnus does nothing wrong and suddenly he needs to be in the webway all the time to ensure Terra doesn't become the eye of terror. He probably thought he'd do more good pushing the webway project along and let the space marines sort out the whole heresy situation with Mt. Artat 2.0. Valdor certainly thought so quote:That didn't prevent the issue from preying on Valdor's mind. He still heard the whispers of all the creatures he had killed on Terra. The Emperor remained silent, and in that absence, all he had were those voices--teasing, tempting, reproaching, over and over again.
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# ? Dec 25, 2022 06:11 |
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Jimbot posted:This article was a pretty insightful look into how the imagery of the 40k game shifted over the years and how you can still make a case for the game from a leftist's perspective. As someone who knows little about the setting and its history the Thatcherite Orks was amazing.
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# ? Dec 25, 2022 11:48 |
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Another fun excerpt that reinforces how rushed all of this was comes from Echos of Eternity, the latest book in the Horus Heresy series by the black library. The traitors have boots on the ground and Horus hovers in his flag ship. The assault in the physical realm reaches a fever pitch as Sanguinius makes his stand at the Eternity Gate and banishes Ka'Bandha. Magnus presses the Emperor in the warp and webway, seeking a way to break the seal in the Throne Room. Desperation drives Malcador to send Vulkan in to stop Magnus and we get a nice look at the human sections of the webway. These were to be the foundations of the safe space prepared for humanitys ascenion quote:The walls of the Imperial webway, where he’d emerged after running through the portal in the Throne Room, were rigid frames on circuit-threaded Martian metal fused to various alien trans-osseous materials and cultured psychoplastics. He recognised his father’s vision in this blend of human and alien technology: the distant past bolted and fused to the present, for the sake of an imperfectly understood future. It grieved him, to know it had all failed so utterly. Horus had much to answer for. As did Magnus.
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# ? Dec 25, 2022 18:28 |
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I love that the downfall of the great human empire was basically around a galactic urban planning dispute, that's extremely British
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# ? Dec 25, 2022 20:10 |
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If the emperor had just made 20 Vulcans they'd all be fine
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# ? Dec 25, 2022 20:35 |
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Kanos posted:This is probably the best way to do it. Marines are specialized killing machines and are better than literally everyone else at that(with the possible exception of like, tricked out mechanicus combat characters), but they kind of stink at anything that isn't killing hundreds of dudes at an alarming rate.
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# ? Dec 26, 2022 00:12 |
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A legitimately great 40k game. All grant howitts stuff is good, he's worth digging into if this is new to you
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# ? Dec 26, 2022 01:01 |
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sebmojo posted:A legitimately great 40k game. I guess I’m gonna have to check this stuff out.
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# ? Dec 26, 2022 01:21 |
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TheWeedNumber posted:I guess I’m gonna have to check this stuff out. https://rowanrookanddecard.com/product-category/game-systems/one-page-games/
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# ? Dec 26, 2022 01:29 |
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Damned if I could remember which book or short story it where Marines are shepherding civilians, and one attempts to make small talk with a baby. It was the funniest poo poo. Also, Grant Howitt is a treasure and his one-page rpgs are often funny as hell, like Honey Heist. His longer rpgs are pretty nifty too.
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# ? Dec 26, 2022 12:52 |
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Zephro posted:I read somewhere that the Mag Uruk Thraka thing is not true, or at least wasn't intentional Yeah, Andy Chambers swears it comes from a LARP thing they used to do where they'd made up some Ork language, and the whole Thatcher thing is just linguistic pareidolia.
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# ? Dec 27, 2022 17:19 |
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Warden posted:Damned if I could remember which book or short story it where Marines are shepherding civilians, and one attempts to make small talk with a baby. It was the funniest poo poo. There's a short story where a detachment of marines link up with some guard, and one thoughtful sergeant comes up to ask if they want to be relieved for watch, leading to one of the marines to lose his loving mind on him having to be held back from tearing his head off for implying they might have any human frailty or weakness. "Let the Galaxy Burn" novel iirc.
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# ? Dec 28, 2022 07:56 |
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A few pages ago, this thread was actually discussing the game. Someone mentioned bits and pieces weren't translated from Russian yet or translated improperly. If you're curious about anything in particular, send the Russian text my way: https://steamcommunity.com/id/Xander77/
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# ? Dec 28, 2022 21:00 |
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https://youtu.be/gULQBFNgvdA At least we don’t have to worry about Owlcat failing to understand that the Imperium are also villains.
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# ? Mar 4, 2023 23:26 |
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CottonWolf posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gULQBFNgvdA I hope they're included in the final game.
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 15:34 |
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Given announcement trailer, they 100% will be.
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 15:36 |
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Issaries posted:No Necrons on that video is bit disappointing. If you look at the last 30 seconds of the video it's literally an animation of the Rogue Traders arriving at a Necron Tomb.
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 16:33 |
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Cantorsdust posted:If you look at the last 30 seconds of the video it's literally an animation of the Rogue Traders arriving at a Necron Tomb. Only Humans, spiky humans, elves and spiky elves were on the video. Necrons were the biggest one missing in the introduction. Orcs or Genestealers/Lictors can be a random encounters or whatever. No Tau or Dwarves either, but I wouldn't miss them if they were absent.
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 16:46 |
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Issaries posted:Yeah, that was on the original trailer too, but this was a factions introduction video and there's plenty of interesting factions missing. I thought they already said the reintroduction of space dwarves came to late into design to include them, at least in the base game.
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 18:45 |
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They are called Demiurge now, used to be Squats. Owlcat said they would have loved to include them but were too far along in development at the time GW brought them back into the lore.
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 20:03 |
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Weren't the Demiurg retconned to be an actual alien race, and the Squats renamed the Leagues of Votann?
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 20:50 |
If I understood it right, Squats are still a thing too, but strictly refer to space dwarves who have left mainstream League society to strike out on their own as mercenaries or contractors.
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 21:34 |
Zephro posted:I read somewhere that the Mag Uruk Thraka thing is not true, or at least wasn't intentional I read that too, but the orc warband with Maggie’s face on their banners is definitely real so it’s possible they were just playing it down.
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# ? Mar 5, 2023 23:58 |
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pentyne posted:They are called Demiurge now, used to be Squats. Owlcat said they would have loved to include them but were too far along in development at the time GW brought them back into the lore. Demiurge were the T'au auxiliares, the new Squats are the Kin from the Leagues of Votann
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 04:43 |
Azran posted:Demiurge were the T'au auxiliares, the new Squats are the Kin from the Leagues of Votann It's heavily implied in the new Votann lore that the Demiurge are an offshoot
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 07:15 |
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I'm a little concerned about how the promo materials seem to be really digging into the chaos versus good boy narrative. Maybe I'm by myself over here but I was hoping for more of a dynasty building colony/fleet pursuit rather than a big narrative story campaign.
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 17:05 |
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D-Pad posted:It's heavily implied in the new Votann lore that the Demiurge are an offshoot The line in the codex is "The Kin have been mistakenly known to T'au and Human alike as the Demiurg" Basically, the retcon is that all the various Space Dwarves over the years have been Kin in some form or another, with individual leagues being mistaken as a whole species by some, like the ones that were all eaten by Tyranids.
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 17:35 |
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Eifert Posting posted:I'm a little concerned about how the promo materials seem to be really digging into the chaos versus good boy narrative. General Spoilers from alpha I mean the narrative of the Alpha, which is the 2nd chapter of the game, is about you reclaiming your dynasty holdings and becoming crowned as the new Rogue Trader of the Dynasty. There's not exactly free-form dynasty/fleet building. You explore places and gain resources/people and sometimes claim a planet to your dynasty. There's occasionally mini-dungeons that you find that you can explore. 1st chapter that isn't in the Alpha established you as the heir and you have a nemesis that's a chaos worshipper. They weren't directly shown on the alpha, but pursuing/fighting them is likely the matter of the 3rd chapter. Chaos vs humanity seems to be the theme here.
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 17:40 |
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CottonWolf posted:At least we don’t have to worry about Owlcat failing to understand that the Imperium are also villains. That angle being missed is always the biggest worry I have with Warhammer media so it's nice to see them being unambiguous. I didn't get a sense of them pulling any punches in that regard in the Alpha either, especially with some of the dialogue and actions you can choose. Issaries posted:No Necrons on that video is bit disappointing. I hope to see them as a full -fledged force but if not, they (and the T'au) seem obvious for expansions later on. Not ideal but not the worst option either imo.
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 19:29 |
They’ve already shown off a variety of in-game necron units right?
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 19:54 |
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Anno posted:They’ve already shown off a variety of in-game necron units right? We have? I don't remember any and didn't see any inside the Alpha.
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 20:00 |
Maybe a case of mistakenly remembering images from WH40K: Mechanicus?
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# ? Mar 6, 2023 20:09 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 15:14 |