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Ariamaki posted:Just as an example, if your 4-coin attack only has to get two heads (oo**) to beat their single-coin attack on its tails flip (o) (and just for pessimism let's say you cannot beat the heads flip at all), the predictor will probably call that Struggling or Hopeless since you can't ever beat the topend... even though you actually have 3 chances to get the situation to align (either oo**, o**, or ** on the first three clashes), and they have to beat all of those running odds while you only need to win one time to break their singular coin. me clashing a 4-coin skill against a 1-coin skill with a higher min and lower max than the enemy, so as long as they land tails once I win the clash no matter what but they have to land it once, and then the enemy lands on heads five times in a row at neutral sp (because abnormality)
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Mar 6, 2023 19:51
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Ariamaki posted:Huzzah! I am glad that you got through it without too much trouble: As for Upties, let me know what 00 Identities you have and I can offer my advice there: I think especially when you're getting started, the uptie cost on 000s can be prohibitive when you could get two different 00s maxed for the same Threadcount. I think I have all but Shi Section DonQ. Everything points towards Kurokumo Hong Lu being great, but given Chapter 3 I should probably focus on blunt identities maybe? Although I can borrow a T3 Reindeer Ishmael at least for that. EDIT: Also, is it better to get random shard boxes or character specific ones? GiantRockFromSpace fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 20:01
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It's pretty self explanatory. Random if you just want to convert into thread (probably a bad idea now that we know a thread grinding dungeon is coming soon-ish) or want to spread your shards around, character specific for... Well, specifically grinding for a character. You do get quite a bit less of the latter but it's probably worth it if there's something you're aiming towards.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:21
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random is going to be 24 crates per week. Assuming 12 weeks per season, but then dividing by 12 since its spread across 12 sinners, its... essentially 24 crates worth per sinner. (24-72 shards, average 48) Nominable is 180. And remember, half your stockpile gets threaded going into a new season. Unless 24 shards for all sinners is what you really need, I don't think its worthwhile.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:49
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the EGO gift that makes everything inflict Rupture (and if it's Envy it's More) is shockingly good even if your Mirror team doesn't revolve around it it's basically +3 damage to everything you do after the first hit on a guy
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Mar 6, 2023 21:20
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Have we heard the names of any of the Associations we haven't fought in Ruina anywhere? Or even how many there are? If we assume there are no gaps in the numbering, we're missing 3, 5, and however many of 8 or above there are. The languages Limbus Corp references that aren't yet represented include Italian (Dante), Latin (Vergil), Spanish (Don), French (Meursault), Russian (Rodion), and Greek (Outis), but 3 and 5 in most of those are hard to tell apart from any of the others.
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Mar 6, 2023 21:27
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Ruina's cutscenes in the Hana association mention Tres (3 in Spanish) and Cinq (5 in French), and there's a short story in one of the optional fights that mentions the Oufi (11 in Swiss).
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Mar 6, 2023 21:29
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Oh god, just discovered an event in Mirror with a burning dog where trying to give it water makes any non-Sloth sinners take damage but gives you a gift that makes the first, single-coin non killing attack reuse itself. It works on EGO  The dog boss ate multiple Pathos Malos, got staggered and died in 3 turns. Why is there such a good (if small for now) roguelite on this gacha.
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Mar 6, 2023 21:50
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Junpei posted:Ruina's cutscenes in the Hana association mention Tres (3 in Spanish) and Cinq (5 in French), and there's a short story in one of the optional fights that mentions the Oufi (11 in Swiss). Cinq also gets mentioned here in Yi Sang's 00 uptie cutscene. GiantRockFromSpace posted:I think I have all but Shi Section DonQ. Everything points towards Kurokumo Hong Lu being great, but given Chapter 3 I should probably focus on blunt identities maybe? Although I can borrow a T3 Reindeer Ishmael at least for that. Specific crates IMO 100%. As for good upties in the 00 range... Kurokumo Hong Lu is an obvious pick for sure, even in Chapter 3 not EVERYTHING is weak to Blunt. Both of Sinclair's 00s are great, but Mariachi is *memetically* great. Both of the LCCB (Rodion and Ishmael) are very good, with Ishmael being an infinitely better Ammo user than R Corp Heathcliff. I have a big penchant for both of the Liu IDs (Gregor and Meurseult) even though there's not a lot of burn support right now: It's still just free damage. L Corp Remnant Faust is rock-solid and Seven Section 6 Yi Sang is perfectly fine if not overwhelming due to being kinda scattershot. Heathcliff Ryoshu and Outis are better off just using their LCB defaults than any of their 00s: If you get Kurokumo Ryoshu though it's a beatstick. Ariamaki fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 22:04
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SITB posted:I'm pretty sure that's not how it's meant to work... Oh I did have that, is that why that happened? Sick
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Mar 6, 2023 22:19
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it feels like Kurokumo Rodion is the best Poise-user in the game right now because she's the only one with a skull that improves Poise Count so she can keep her crit rate up for more than one turn
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Mar 6, 2023 22:31
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DuoRogue posted:random is going to be 24 crates per week. Assuming 12 weeks per season, but then dividing by 12 since its spread across 12 sinners, its... essentially 24 crates worth per sinner. (24-72 shards, average 48) Keep in mind that your egoshards get halved at the end of each season anyways. Nominable are good if you know you will actually get enough to buy what you want by the end of the season, i.e. you either have a specific 00 sinner in mind, or a 000/EGO when you already have the other 220ish shards needed. But saving up 180 Mersault shards is not gonna get you Groshammer Mersualt on its own, and then when the season ends and they poof into thread you'll be worse off than if you had traded picked the random boxes. That said, all this depends on exactly how much thread we get from the daily thing. There are a ton of usages for it, like even if you only uptie a handful of identities and use them for everything there are still tons of free EGOs from the battlepass to threadspin. But if the dailies alone give "more than enough" (however much that is), then maybe the extra thread from shard boxes really will be worthless.
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Mar 6, 2023 23:19
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Junpei posted:it feels like Kurokumo Rodion is the best Poise-user in the game right now because she's the only one with a skull that improves Poise Count so she can keep her crit rate up for more than one turn Blade Lineage Sinclair actually also gets Poise count and can turn that into generating a ton of Sin resources through his second EGO. But yeah, most other Poise users really need to be in human fights getting multiple attacks to take serious advantage of it, or have some other source of Poise / count from Gifts. RPATDO_LAMD posted:But saving up 180 Mersault shards is not gonna get you Groshammer Mersualt on its own, and then when the season ends and they poof into thread you'll be worse off than if you had traded picked the random boxes. It's not 180 shards, it's 180 boxes. If you pick Nominable every time you get 15 boxes of 1-3 shards a week during an 80 day Bus Pass season, so 13 instances of 15 boxes. So it's roughly double to triple that amount luck depending, which is (significantly more than) enough combined with other sources. Ariamaki fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Mar 6, 2023 |
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Mar 6, 2023 23:23
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Thanks for the advice in the thread on chapter 3. Got bulldozed by 3-4 but managed to eek my way through it with Liu Meurseult/Gregor and 3 0 identities (Ishmael, Heathcliff, and Hong Lu), all at level 15.
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Mar 6, 2023 23:33
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Ariamaki posted:Blade Lineage Sinclair actually also gets Poise count and can turn that into generating a ton of Sin resources through his second EGO. Also like, if you do ocassionally pull you get even more shards. I'm kinda tempted for the pure meme, instead of uptying 2 00... to uptie Ebony Apple. Identities are fleeting but AoE is eternal. It's a joke, I just got 20 extra thread from battlepass and Ebony Apple does hit like a truck, even if the sins needed are a bit of a pain 
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Mar 6, 2023 23:37
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The other thing to keep in mind for nominable vs. random is that a season is pretty long - four new sets of extractions based on the roadmap, including one "event" which in a typical gacha would mean not going to the general pool (or at least not right away). What that does to your strategy is going to depend where you fall on the "collect everything" to "build a functional team and then who cares" spectrum and how much pulling you do, but at minimum it means you might need more shards for character X than it currently looks like you do.
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Mar 7, 2023 00:38
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basically, pick your favorite character, use all your nomiables on them unless someone gets an alt you really like, and never thread their shards ever
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Mar 7, 2023 00:57
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I'm hitting a real wall with Stage 3-17 and it's starting to get on my nerves How do Counter-Attacks work? I am taking more hits than I should, the enemy is somehow pulling multiple attacks out their rear end that I cannot clash and I'm getting staggered out of my turn by counterattacks and I am trying to not attack counter attacking units but I can't just, not attack those units it forces me to unlike if I was facing Anomalies, so I take hits I don't want to take and lose clashes I could win because suddenly I have a staggered character out of nowhere. My team is currently floating around level 19-20 and I really don't want the answer to be "Go and grind" because I am out of weekly Mirror Dungeon runs for XP. I also cannot find anywhere that tells me how my Defensive skills work in that regard.
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Mar 7, 2023 01:06
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TheNabster posted:I'm hitting a real wall with Stage 3-17 and it's starting to get on my nerves But a better answer is to bring along a support so you get the 6-man party.
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Mar 7, 2023 01:09
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GilliamYaeger posted:You still get 5 gold and silver tickets for mirror dungeon runs without the bonus. Wait that's a thing? Do I just pick the support and then not select them in my starting roster and they'll be in the battle?
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Mar 7, 2023 01:19
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TheNabster posted:Wait that's a thing? Do I just pick the support and then not select them in my starting roster and they'll be in the battle?
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Mar 7, 2023 01:23
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TheNabster posted:Wait that's a thing? Do I just pick the support and then not select them in my starting roster and they'll be in the battle? Yep, on the one hand it's almost certainly a bug and on the other hand it vaguely feels like it's balanced that way - for example, you can't take a 6th person in the dungeon and the starting dungeon fights are much easier than the fights outside the dungeon.
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Mar 7, 2023 01:26
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TheNabster posted:I'm hitting a real wall with Stage 3-17 and it's starting to get on my nerves You can in fact choose not to attack those units: Just convert attack coins to defense coins.
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Mar 7, 2023 01:45
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Converting to defense has another important, undocumented use. I forget if this guide on how targeting works in human fights has been linked here already, but it's made a huge difference in my fights knowing how to force good clashes at the cost of eating a few one-sided attacks: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aQ95WMUEZ7HzQqxNc6m9HHAVitCU6Ntsb3YRwXzXR6M/edit Basically, for each speed die, instead of using either of the attacks you rolled, you can "pass" by defending, which punts the incoming attack to the next speed die in the order (and every later incoming attack down one). Meleemancer fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 02:09
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TheNabster posted:I also cannot find anywhere that tells me how my Defensive skills work in that regard. the tutorial. they proc on the first unopposed attack, with any additional defensive skills proccing on further unopposed attacks. Block is less damage taken on the first die. Evade works like ruina. and Counter makes an attack back after you get attacked.
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Mar 7, 2023 02:34
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DuoRogue posted:the tutorial. Which is pretty bad news for evade, because if I'm using a block skill the enemy probably has some pretty mean abilities coming in. If I'm actually using a defensive skill for defense (rather than juggling matchups vs humans), I really just want block.
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Mar 7, 2023 02:43
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block is pretty garbo though. if the enemy hits hard enough that you actually care about using a defensive skill they are probably doing way more than 8 damage. meanwhile evade can not only negate one attack but it can actually negate any number of attacks. abno has three separate parts targeting attacks at one sinner? evade and watch all of them miss!
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Mar 7, 2023 02:48
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:block is pretty garbo though. if the enemy hits hard enough that you actually care about using a defensive skill they are probably doing way more than 8 damage. But block can work partially, while evade does nothing unless it succeeds. For avoiding those 3 separate attacks you're requiring that a) none of them can beat a winning evade die (in which case you probably have better matchups from actual attacks) and b) you succeed at 3 flips in a row, since a failed evade flip loses to pretty much anything.
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Mar 7, 2023 02:51
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Evading even one of those attacks would be better than successfully blocking, and failing the evade roll wouldn't be substantially worse. If you're taking 60 damage and getting insta staggered, you would probably get insta staggered with 52 damage too.
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Mar 7, 2023 02:55
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Defensive dice feel weird because they act on the damage dealing phase, not the clash phase, which goes against how skills normally resolve. There's also the fact that using a defensive die on your fastest character likely means that they won't get targeted at all, and just completely sit the turn out. Compare in Ruina in which defensive dice are involved in clashes, and the fastest character can usually find an advantageous clash instead targeting the slot where the tank usually ends up, and they don't feel as useful as Ruina. I'm sure, if the game lasts long enough, there will be more mechanics which mess with defensive options and turn order
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Mar 7, 2023 04:00
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hopefully we'll get defensive skills that actually do things - enemies have them (defensive skills that heal on use, evades that deal SP damage), but afaik all sinners only have generic ones.
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Mar 7, 2023 04:53
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Counters have unique Sin affinities at least
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Mar 7, 2023 05:04
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Junpei posted:Counters have unique Sin affinities at least And at least one idenity has a passive that turns all counter attacks into her tier 3 skill instead (provided she has enough poise).
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Mar 7, 2023 05:55
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Block actually seems to just give you bonus HP for the turn when triggered. It shows up as blue on the HP bar and goes away if the enemy doesn’t get through it. It’s most obvious when fighting the k corp guys in Mirror Dungeons and whatnot.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:55
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Well, I'm stuck at the first dungeon floor boss of Chapter 3. Those diddly dang dogs take forever to die and whenever they get suped up, they murder a Sinner. I can't find any strategy to get past them.
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Mar 7, 2023 06:05
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me on 3:11 and mirror dungeons: me on 3:12: 
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Mar 7, 2023 06:11
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KobunFan posted:Well, I'm stuck at the first dungeon floor boss of Chapter 3. Those diddly dang dogs take forever to die and whenever they get suped up, they murder a Sinner. I can't find any strategy to get past them. you have to ignore one of them. dont even clash it. just focus on one at a time. its way harder than anything on floor 2
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Mar 7, 2023 06:17
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So was Kromer an intern at Nagel while attending school, or was she pulling a 21 Jump Street and acting like she was Sinclair's age when really she was older, or what?
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Mar 7, 2023 06:32
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Junpei posted:So was Kromer an intern at Nagel while attending school, or was she pulling a 21 Jump Street and acting like she was Sinclair's age when really she was older, or what? My guess is that either she had enough force of charisma to hang with the big folks, or somebody saw a 'promising young talent' in her and took advantage. Alternately we already have been explicitly told in past games that "some Nests will recruit a kid as soon as they're old enough to hold a knife", and we have also seen exactly how lax Lobotomy Corporation's hiring procedures could be. Third option, maybe Nagel und Hammer has some kind of Hitler Youth / Young Republicans thing going on as a side faction? Ariamaki fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 07:02
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Ariamaki posted:My guess is that either she had enough force of charisma to hang with the big folks, or somebody saw a 'promising young talent' in her and took advantage. N Corp also were explicitly investigating the town according to Sinclair. Kromer could've met with them at the time and was trying to get Sinclair in too.
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Mar 7, 2023 07:55
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