Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

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(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

zone: Dec 6, 2016

fatherboxx posted:

https://twitter.com/skazal_on/status/1632839925195325443

New deranged Russian flag dropped

"NOVORUSSIA
to each what he deserves"

I wonder if Strelkov would ever choose to modify or change his flag to look like that, though he sees Wagner and by extension anything they make as beneath contempt, so there it is

# ? Mar 6, 2023 21:50

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# ? May 29, 2024 14:32

Pander: Oct 9, 2007; Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.

GABA ghoul posted:

I just want to add that the subtitles omit her saying "... despite being poisoned a lot" after praising the Russian gene pool. I assume it refers to miscegenation/race mixing. What a piece of poo poo.

She IS the Russian Elon musk!

# ? Mar 6, 2023 21:53

Just Another Lurker: May 1, 2009

fatherboxx posted:

https://twitter.com/skazal_on/status/1632839925195325443

New deranged Russian flag dropped

"NOVORUSSIA
to each what he deserves"

The flag looks like a badly cropped image... my little brain is asking what the full picture looks like. :argh:

# ? Mar 6, 2023 21:56

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

That's the worst looking neo-Confederate flag variant I've seen yet.

_{yes i know its the flag of novorossiya}

# ? Mar 6, 2023 21:57

Karma Comedian: Feb 2, 2012

Defmon update for the day:

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1632832960453038080?t=UXgUfzQZ9PFd_2P89Zta3w&s=19

Overview and weather:
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1632833003146694661?t=pg3DUD3pO_Rj-uRgfPxohA&s=19
Maps!
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1632833061976002565?t=6vwBFnUPyNDYWiPlqQy4Kw&s=19

# ? Mar 6, 2023 21:57

Blitz of 404 Error: Sep 19, 2007; Joe Biden is a top 15 president

I just don't see a scenario where Ukraine ever has control over Donbas and Crimea again for the foreseeable future

# ? Mar 6, 2023 21:58

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Blitz of 404 Error posted:

I just don't see a scenario where Ukraine ever has control over Donbas and Crimea again for the foreseeable future

Hah that reminds me, I wonder if Toxxes are in effect for this iteration of the thread. I remember a lot of posts like this about all of the places theyve taken back so far and some of them spawned Toxxes for donations to Ukrainian charities for the loser. Donbas, for sure. Crimea? That one I'm a lot less sure about.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:00

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Blitz of 404 Error posted:

I just don't see a scenario where Ukraine ever has control over Donbas and Crimea again for the foreseeable future

Right now time will tell. Nothing's happened so far while the new western kit is being gathered and the troops trained in NATO standard tactics. However - Logistics is what will decide the war. An army without supplies can't do a whole lot of fighting or even holding on to what they have. And as long as Ukraine brings their A-game to dealing with their logistics, command centers, and communications, things certainly look optimistic enough on that front.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:01

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

fatherboxx posted:

https://twitter.com/skazal_on/status/1632839925195325443

New deranged Russian flag dropped

"NOVORUSSIA
to each what he deserves"

How could the Sims 3 do this?

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:09

WAR CRIME GIGOLO: Oct 3, 2012; The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

fatherboxx posted:

https://twitter.com/skazal_on/status/1632839925195325443

New deranged Russian flag dropped

"NOVORUSSIA
to each what he deserves"

Ahem uh well :goonsay:

the preFIDIOIS WEST HAS clearly photoshopped the flag. You see it's actually a square but they make it look like a swastika

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:12

teen witch: Oct 9, 2012

Ok so

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Novorossiya

Still bad but it does look like the Russian naval Jack flag.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_navy_flags

Still, choose a different flag motif. Christ

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:13

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

The Novorossiya people have used the St. Andrew's cross naval ensign as the basis for their flag for a time. Unless what some dumb nazi puts on his apartment wall is official I don't really think there's anything to analyze about that and I doubt fatherbox intended it as more than a laugh/facepalm thing to begin with.

teen witch posted:

Still, choose a different flag motif. Christ

I mean whoever had this one made modified it to look like a badly cropped swastika instead of the St. Andrew's cross, it's not that it vaguely looks like the confederate battleflag or Scottish flag for that matter.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:18

Cthulu Carl: Apr 16, 2006

fatherboxx posted:

https://twitter.com/skazal_on/status/1632839925195325443

New deranged Russian flag dropped

"NOVORUSSIA
to each what he deserves"

"Have you noticed that our flag has a badly cropped Swastika on it?"

"No... I..."

"Ivan... Are we the baddies?"

"Oh, you've been listening to NATO propaganda. Of course they're going to say we're the bad guys!"

"They didn't design out flag, though."

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:46

a podcast for cats: Jun 22, 2005; Dogs reading from an artifact buried in the ruins of our civilization, "We were assholes- " and writing solemnly, "They were assholes."; Soiled Meat

The conversation is kind of burying the "Jedem das Seine" motto though, which is considerably more on the nose here.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:57

Sashimi: Dec 26, 2008; College Slice

HonorableTB posted:

Donbas, for sure. Crimea? That one I'm a lot less sure about.

A successful Ukrainian push to Melitopol or somewhere else towards the Sea of Azov would sever land supply routes to Crimea and make the Kerch Bridge easier to attack. They could very well place the peninsula under siege if the Russians can't figure out how to resupply via whatever ships they have in the area.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 22:59

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

HonorableTB posted:

Hah that reminds me, I wonder if Toxxes are in effect for this iteration of the thread. I remember a lot of posts like this about all of the places theyve taken back so far and some of them spawned Toxxes for donations to Ukrainian charities for the loser. Donbas, for sure. Crimea? That one I'm a lot less sure about.

It would be relatively plausible for Russia to turtle up in some portion of the Donbass and try to freeze the conflict that way, but it is kind of funny that all it would really take is Ukraine getting to the Azov coast long enough to do one nice big HIMARS bombardment and RIP that bridge to Crimea.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:00

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

I always found it somewhat strange that the Donbass shenanigans were sold as a revolt against Ukranian Nazis in Kyiv, but then half of their politicians end up having histories in nazi parties and they run the novorossiya flag while a bunch of their militia brigades are like 'norse viking rusich battalion'

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:04

StrangersInTheNight: Dec 31, 2007; ABSOLUTE FUCKING GUDGEON

Panzeh posted:

I always found it somewhat strange that the Donbass shenanigans were sold as a revolt against Ukranian Nazis in Kyiv, but then half of their politicians end up having histories in nazi parties and they run the novorossiya flag while a bunch of their militia brigades are like 'norse viking rusich battalion'

There's a sort of person who genuinely believes Russia = Jewish & communist, two groups classically opposed to Nazis, thus it is impossible for Russians to be Nazis

Meanwhile it's just packed to the gills with strongmen Christofascists

StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Mar 7, 2023

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:09

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Panzeh posted:

I always found it somewhat strange that the Donbass shenanigans were sold as a revolt against Ukranian Nazis in Kyiv, but then half of their politicians end up having histories in nazi parties and they run the novorossiya flag while a bunch of their militia brigades are like 'norse viking rusich battalion'

I think a lot of the Soviet-era historiography strongly defined "Nazi/fascist" as being "against the Soviet Union," which was true, but not comprehensive. This was then widely internalized by a lot of people throughout Eastern Europe, leading to both people adopting Nazi iconography to be edgy and the current practical definition where "Nazi" means "against Russia."

So some dude who calls himself DJ Teknohitler 1488 (former name: Pavel Ivanov) can be literally a tattoo-art collection of Nazi iconography, and if he loves Russia, and supports what Russia is doing, he doesn't 'count' as a Nazi.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:16

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Panzeh posted:

I always found it somewhat strange that the Donbass shenanigans were sold as a revolt against Ukranian Nazis in Kyiv, but then half of their politicians end up having histories in nazi parties and they run the novorossiya flag while a bunch of their militia brigades are like 'norse viking rusich battalion'

The thing is, I agree with the notion that Ukraine should have given the region more autonomy and local self government that the locals asked for like they promised before, after the whole 93 debacle and not wanting centralized authority placed over them. Yanukovych's corruption and shenanigans during the 2000s didn't help matters either. Strelkov's declaration that the Crimea annexation was staged at gunpoint doesn't add any more legitimacy to that mess than it already does, given that Russia should have left Crimea as they promised before.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:20

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

I'm not saying Ukraine couldn't take Crimea if they wanted to, it would just take a staggering amount of casualties to do so. And there's always the specter of Clancychat looming over the horizon when dealing with Crimea, much more than anywhere else. Crimea, much like Tahiti, is a magical place in the minds of many Russians (especially in the government) that totally belongs to Russia and always has - even Navalny supported the annexation of Crimea (which should also say a lot about Navalny and liberals in Russian politics, but different topic for a different thread)

In any case, maybe they won't have to if they sever the land bridge. But I do not see any circumstance in which Russia abandons Sevastopol. It's their only yearlong ice-free deep water port and the HQ of the Black Sea fleet. It's about as core a Russian interest as they come. But now we're getting way out into the weeds so I'll bring it back

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Mar 6, 2023

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:24

Flowers for QAnon: May 20, 2019

Who considers Navalny liberal?

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:30

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Flowers for QAnon posted:

Who considers Navalny liberal?

well he's the head of a center-left opposition party i'd say that qualifies

also jacobin and other outlets writing things like this:

https://jacobin.com/2021/01/alexei-navalny-russia-protests-putin

How a Russian Nationalist Named Alexei Navalny Became a Liberal Hero posted:

The arrest of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny has sparked mass protests against Vladimir Putin's authoritarianism. Navalny's journalism has highlighted the cronyism of Russia's elites � but his chameleon-like shifts between liberalism and anti-immigrant nationalism show he's no champion of working-class Russians.

powerful liberal energy

Also here's another article about what he's been up to lately

Alexei Navalny's Big Shift on Crimea posted:

Last week, in an encouraging development where Russia�s internal politics are concerned, Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny unveiled a series of �theses� outlining what a post-Putin Russia should look like. In so doing, Navalny finally clarified his position on the one issue that has, for some time now, driven a wedge between him and Western allies, especially those in Ukraine: Russian imperialism�and, more specifically, the fate of Crimea.

Over a series of Twitter posts, Navalny announced that Crimea should be returned to Ukraine, full stop. Navalny wrote that Ukraine�s borders are �similar to Russia�s�[they were] internationally recognized and defined in 1991.� All of the areas of Ukraine that the Kremlin has supposedly �annexed� are, by right and by law, still Ukrainian, including Crimea.

The announcement is the conclusion of a years-long song and dance Navalny and his supporters have performed in relation to the peninsula�s future. For nearly a decade, Navalny�s stance on Crimea has been �ambiguous,� as The Moscow Times recently reported. And while Westerners feted Navalny for his ongoing bravery, Ukrainians were rightly infuriated by his relative coyness about the fate of the peninsula. (When an interviewer asked whether Navalny would, if elected president, return Crimea to Ukraine, Navalny infamously responded, �What, is Crimea a ham sandwich or something that you can take and give back? No, I don�t believe so.�)

Now Navalny has seemingly put the issue to bed. And in so doing, he has finally begun to address the core issue propelling the Russian devastation of Ukraine and the militarized dystopia Putin�s Russia has become: rote imperialism, predicated on conspiratorial resentment, unabashed revanchism, and neocolonial aspirations. After years of trying to shunt the topic of Russian imperialism to the side, Russian liberals appear finally to be waking to the reality that Russian colonialism and Russian chauvinism stand at the core of the country�s collapse into totalitarianism.

Indeed, Navalny further addressed the topic of Russian imperialism within his new series of �theses.� �Does Russia need new territories?� the jailed opposition figure asked. �Russia is a vast country with a shrinking population and dying-out rural areas. Imperialism and the urge to seize territory is the most harmful and destructive path.� This irredentism, as Russian liberals have begun to see, has resulted in unmitigated catastrophe. �Once again, the Russian government is destroying our future with its own hands just in order to make our country look bigger on the map,� Navalny continued. �But Russia is big enough as it is. Our objective should be preserving our people and developing what we have in abundance.�

Naturally, Navalny�s new stance against Russian imperialism is several years late and has only arrived now as a direct result of the Ukrainians� bottomless bravery in the face of Putin�s monstrous imperial war machine. But there�s no need to look this gift horse in the mouth: This is a sign of a potential, nascent shift in Russian liberals� awareness of the crimes of Russian colonialism�a first explicit step down the path to finally killing off the death-drive of Russian imperialism.

Navalny isn�t the only anti-Putin figure who�s recently begun addressing this topic. Last month in Politico, exiled Russian opposition figure Mikhail Khodorkovsky unveiled a similar vision for a post-Putin Russia, calling for the country to federalize fully�and potentially even allow nations colonized by Moscow, such as Chechnya, to finally achieve the independence they�ve long sought. To Khodorkovsky, a post-Putin Russia �must be decentralized�that is, united but divisible.�

This �united but divisible� framing is one that, if implemented, could go a significant way toward rectifying the ongoing social fractures left by Russian imperialism�and not just in Ukraine but in Russia itself. (As Russian journalist Alexey Kovalev recently wrote, �As one peels away the defunct layers of Russia�s imperial identity, sooner or later the question of imperialism within Russia�s own borders will come up.�) At a minimum, it is a recognition that the rot of Russian imperialism will continue to devastate Russia, as well as its neighbors, until it is finally expunged from the nation�s collective psyche. Taken in conjunction with Navalny�s new stance, it means that, perhaps for the first time in Russian history, the primary opponents of the Kremlin have finally begun placing Russian imperialism at the center of the country�s ills.

The problem for figures like Navalny and Khodorkovsky lies not in this recognition, however belated it may be, but in whether Russians are ready to hear what they have to say. Putin hardly operates in a vacuum, and there is little indication that the majority of Russians are opposed to his revanchism. Indeed, the single most popular moment of Putin�s presidency came when he initially launched his invasion of Ukraine, and when he seized his first Ukrainian province, in 2014. (There�s a reason Putin�s recent decade in power was built on this so-called �Crimean consensus.�) Even as his invasion turned sour over the past year, Russians have hardly evinced any significant opposition. At best, it remains a nation saturated in apathy�unwilling to face the legacies of Russian colonialism, let alone move against a regime dedicated to shattering Ukraine.

But with Navalny�s and Khodorkovsky�s recent shifts, prominent anti-Putin voices are at least willing to gesture at the imperialistic elephant in the room. And other voices have begun picking up the thread. �I think that Russian culture has a large imperial element, and the time has come to deal with it,� noted Russian sociologist Grigory Yudin said last week. �The collapse of an empire is a good moment to do that.�

Yudin is exactly right. And the good news is that this is a model we�ve seen play out successfully, time and again across the European continent, when listing European empires finally realized their best days of colonization were behind them. It�s a pattern we saw emerge in France after Algeria�s triumph, in the Netherlands after Indonesia�s anti-colonial victory, in Portugal after Angola and Mozambique secured their independence. Over and again, the shock of military defeat has ruptured the dreams of dying European empires�and set these former empires on a path toward eventual democratization.

In Ukraine, the pattern is playing out once more. And thanks to the sacrifice of Ukrainians, Russian liberals are realizing what�s long been evident: Putin�s imperialism, and any efforts at renewed empire, will only condemn Russia to repeat a centuries-long cycle of desolation and autocracy. As these anti-Putin figures may now be recognizing, the time has finally come to eject this irredentist streak from the Russian body politic�to forget Crimea, and to forget these dreams of empire, once and for all.

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Mar 6, 2023

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:32

Terminally Bored: Oct 31, 2011; Twenty-five dollars and a six pack to my name

StrangersInTheNight posted:

There's a sort of person who genuinely believes Russia = Jewish & communist, two groups classically opposed to Nazis, this it is impossible for Russians to be Nazis

Meanwhile it's just packed to the gills with strongmen Christofascists

The 'Russia/Communist can't be nazi' talking point is really popular in propaganda circles and it's eaten up by Western communism larpers wholesale but the truth is much more mundane and predictable. It's true that Lenin denounced pogroms but once Stalin rolled in, well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Soviet_Union

Communist antisemitism continued up to late 60s (look up 1968 Polish Communist Party for an example).

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:33

Kchama: Jul 25, 2007

HonorableTB posted:

well he's the head of a center-left opposition party i'd say that qualifies

also jacobin and other outlets writing things like this:

https://jacobin.com/2021/01/alexei-navalny-russia-protests-putin

powerful liberal energy

"Liberal" is to Jacobin is as to "Nazi" is to Putin.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:38

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Navalny's foreign policy can be summed up as 'Russia's only viable future is to become an integrated part of the European economy, which means we need to make nice with Europe and stop threatening to nuke them at the drop of a hat'. He's also made some statements to the extent of 'if the price of re-entry to Europe is Crimea and domestic reforms, that's a price we need to suck up and pay'.

For a Russian politician that's an astonishingly liberal position to take.

e: oh TB linked a big article on this. Anyway it's pretty significant that he's willing to say 'no there's no grand Western plot to destroy Russia, this is a catastrophe our leaders cooked up entirely by themselves'.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Mar 6, 2023

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:39

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Kchama posted:

"Liberal" is to Jacobin is as to "Nazi" is to Putin.

Okay but that doesn't describe every other publication referring to him the same way, from the New Yorker to the NYT to Moscow Times to WaPo :shrug:

whether or not you agree, he's considered the liberal opposition by more or less the entire media as well as western governments

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:40

Karma Comedian: Feb 2, 2012

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1632863708480249860?t=pW_bzwdq3hSyKmLLnxRHSA&s=19
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1632863715648327680?t=gEVL1OGBV2LdmCnFwaBerA&s=19

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1632863729271406593?t=AHxzj6cW-QCXZJGYHObLow&s=19 https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1632863734732300294?t=VtFlrQ7VaoSLIGzd2WFv_w&s=19 https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1632863739199340544?t=BF2-QA5HeNG80bdqrXkwDQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1632863744228294656?t=wmkuChTtMBD4wRgq4BBZ8w&s=19

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:41

Kchama: Jul 25, 2007

HonorableTB posted:

Okay but that doesn't describe every other publication referring to him the same way, from the New Yorker to the NYT to Moscow Times to WaPo whether or not you agree, he's considered the liberal opposition by more or less the entire media as well as western governments

He's not particularly liberal is the thing, but a lot of people pin their hopes on him being one, because he's about the only left-wing opposition in the country with any sort of power. So you'll see people calling him liberal when he's really not. I was also just cautioning listening to Jacobin call someone liberal though, since it's just their swear-word.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:45

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Kchama posted:

He's not particularly liberal is the thing, but a lot of people pin their hopes on him being one, because he's about the only left-wing opposition in the country with any sort of power. So you'll see people calling him liberal when he's really not. I was also just cautioning listening to Jacobin call someone liberal though, since it's just their swear-word.

Yeah this is a good point, Navalny's liberalness is extremely contextual and relational to Russian domestic politics. He's not a liberal by western political standards but by Russian political standards, he's the Least Bad of the serious politicians. There's weirdos like Yabloko and the communists (who are firmly Putin's instruments) but Navalny's the only one to actually do something about it, which is also why Putin kept trying to kill him and why he's currently in jail.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:51

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1632580318442975232
Hello darkness my old friend moment

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:52

Nelson Mandingo: Mar 27, 2005

Alchenar posted:

Navalny's foreign policy can be summed up as 'Russia's only viable future is to become an integrated part of the European economy, which means we need to make nice with Europe and stop threatening to nuke them at the drop of a hat'. He's also made some statements to the extent of 'if the price of re-entry to Europe is Crimea and domestic reforms, that's a price we need to suck up and pay'.

For a Russian politician that's an astonishingly liberal position to take.

One of the big "what ifs" of world history in my opinion is after the fall of the Berlin wall, if Russia and the west mutually abandoned the belligerant attitudes (Which wouldn't happen immediately, but over time). We could be living in a world where Russia is a significant integrated part of the european economy and the big question on foreign policy is what's the legitimate need for a NATO.

But alas. Putin got high on the idea of being the next Peter the Great. And it's funny because had he died in 2021 he would have been seen nearly universally as the man who brought Russia back. And now this is all he'll be remembered for.

# ? Mar 6, 2023 23:58

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

if i were vladimir putin i would simply stop the war

# ? Mar 7, 2023 00:14

Cthulu Carl: Apr 16, 2006

HonorableTB posted:

if i were vladimir putin i would simply stop the war

If I were Putin I wouldn't have invaded in the first place and simply shat myself to death.

# ? Mar 7, 2023 00:24

Drone_Fragger: May 9, 2007

HonorableTB posted:

if i were vladimir putin i would simply stop the war

is too late comrade, now putin has shamed west and asserted dominance over decandant ukraine by taking poo poo in puppet volodimir zelenskys stolen briefs, he must see through gloriously successful military campaign or else pants making GBS threads incident looks like international embarrassment and sign of enfeeblement

# ? Mar 7, 2023 00:27

Toxic Mental: Jun 1, 2019

I think Speak The Hungarian Rapper had some powerful words that Vlad Putin should hear

# ? Mar 7, 2023 01:00

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

In an extremely Pingu voice:

*poot poot*

E: errrrr Pingu is in fact not Hungarian. Coulda sworn. Well that didn't land did it.

# ? Mar 7, 2023 01:05

jmnmu: Nov 21, 2004; f

I think that this war is bad and Russia should be stopped from doing such lovely things.

# ? Mar 7, 2023 02:21

fizzy: Dec 2, 2022; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Round-Up of News of the Day

Office of the President of Ukraine

quote:

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/okupant-ubivaye-za-sam-fakt-sho-mi-ukrayinci-za-odne-slovo-p-81473

The occupier is killing for the very fact that we are Ukrainians, for the mere word about Ukraine - address by President Volodymyr Zelenskyy
6 March 2023 - 22:26

...

Today at the Staff meeting, I directly asked both Khortytsia commander, General Syrskyi, and Commander-in-Chief Zaluzhny about their view of the further defense operation in the Bakhmut sector.

Either withdrawal or continuation of defense and reinforcement of the city.

Both generals replied: do not withdraw and reinforce. And this opinion was unanimously backed by the Staff.

There were no other opinions.

I told the Commander-in-Chief to find the appropriate forces to help the guys in Bakhmut.

There is no part of Ukraine about which one can say that it can be abandoned. There is no Ukrainian trench in which the resilience and heroism of our warriors would be disregarded.

...

Kyiv Independent

quote:

https://kyivindependent.com/national/brigade-that-spent-2-months-in-bakhmut-it-was-becoming-harder-each-week

Brigade that spent 2 months in Bakhmut: �It was becoming harder each week�
by Asami Terajima
March 6, 2023 10:34 pm

...

Battling the Russians on the front line and fatigue in his head, Oleh had one mission: to ensure all 13 soldiers in his platoon got out of there alive.

Fortunately, the platoon rotated out of Bakhmut with just one injury. The wounded soldier is still being treated at the hospital, but his condition is stable. In general, however, the Ukrainian casualties are high in the Bakhmut area as Russia attacks across the entire front in its attempt to encircle the city.

Russian forces are pushing from the north and the south.

Their assault groups � made of about 10 people � attack Ukrainian positions daily. By holding onto Bakhmut, Ukrainian forces are inflicting casualties and destroying their equipment to reduce Russia's offensive capability in the area.

While Oleh and the rest are no longer deployed in the Bakhmut area, talks about the front-line situation in the city come up regularly in their conversations.

With the Russians slowly occupying small settlements around Bakhmut, Oleh thinks that the fall of Bakhmut is inevitable. "They will capture it," he said.

...

quote:

https://kyivindependent.com/national/ukrainian-soldiers-in-bakhmut-our-troops-are-not-being-protected

Ukrainian soldiers in Bakhmut: �Our troops are not being protected�
by Igor Kossov
March 5, 2023 6:30 pm

KOSTIANTYNIVKA, Donetsk Oblast � Russia�s relentless assault on Bakhmut is sacrificing waves and waves of unprepared men being sent to their deaths.

But multiple defenders of this embattled city in Donetsk Oblast feel that they are in a similar boat, according to interviews with more than a dozen soldiers currently fighting in or around Bakhmut.

During their brief visits to the nearby town of Kostiantynivka, Ukrainian infantrymen told the Kyiv Independent of unprepared, poorly-trained battalions being thrown into the front line meat grinder to survive as best they could with little support from armored vehicles, mortars, artillery, drones and tactical information.

...

They say that Russian artillery, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers are often allowed to strike Ukrainian positions for hours or days without being shut down by Ukrainian heavy weapons. Some complained of poor coordination and situational awareness, allowing this to happen or making it even worse.

Mortarmen spoke of extreme ammunition scarcity and having to use weapons dating back to World War II. Drones that are supposed to provide critical reconnaissance information are also scarce and are being lost at very high rates in some parts of the battlefield.

All this leads to terrifying casualties of both dead and wounded. "The battalion came in in the middle of December� between all the different platoons, there were 500 of us," says Borys, a combat medic from Odesa Oblast fighting around Bakhmut. "A month ago, there were literally 150 of us."

�When you go out to the position, it�s not even a 50/50 chance that you�ll come out of there (alive),� says the older Serhiy. �It�s more like 30/70.�

...

Washington Post

quote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/06/bakhmut-wagner-mercenaries-russia-ukraine/

Russia advances in Bakhmut by sending waves of mercenaries to certain death
March 6, 2023 at 2:52 p.m. EST

...

�Wagner and the mobilized are being just thrown like meat� toward the front line, Vatagin said.

Still, their fighting style poses a challenge to Ukrainian troops. And the waves and waves of them sent forward have proved exhausting, resulting in staggering casualties on both sides.

...

Despite reports of complaints from Ukrainian soldiers that they are fighting under desperate and untenable conditions, and military experts insisting that Bakhmut is of little long-term strategic value to Russia, Zelensky�s office issued a statement saying that Valery Zaluzhny, the Ukrainian military commander in chief, and Oleksandr Syrsky, the commander of ground forces, who is directing operations in the east, had each endorsed reinforcing and continuing the city�s defense.

�Assessing the course of the defense operation, the President asked Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny and Commander of the [eastern group of] troops Oleksandr Syrsky about further actions in the Bakhmut direction,� the statement said. �They spoke in favor of continuing the defense operation and further strengthening our positions in Bakhmut.�

That Zelensky�s office felt compelled to issue the statement highlighted the second-guessing now underway in Ukraine and abroad. Western military analysts have warned that battling to deny Russia a largely symbolic victory may be costing Ukraine too much.

...

# ? Mar 7, 2023 02:42

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# ? May 29, 2024 14:32

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Currently starting Antony Beevors Russia: Revolution and Civil War, 1917�1921 which is definitely an interesting read given the current situation. Anybody want to explain to me how he�s a decadent biased Anglo and everything in the book is wrong?

# ? Mar 7, 2023 03:13

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

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