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Is it me or will cloaking be insane defensively? You almost can’t invade now without getting first struck or hyperlane camped since there’s no way to detect cloaking in someone else’s borders
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Mar 5, 2023 07:18
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scaterry posted:Is it me or will cloaking be insane defensively? You almost can’t invade now without getting first struck or hyperlane camped since there’s no way to detect cloaking in someone else’s borders Cloaking kill shields, no?
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Mar 5, 2023 08:10
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Jack Trades posted:Cloaking kill shields, no? It does, unless you're using the psi-ascension cloak (and use psi-shields, but why would you ever not use psi-shields as a psionic empire?). It also makes your fleets slower. Which is not a concern if your fleet is at a chokepoint you know your enemy must come through. And the cloaking devices themselves use up slots on your ships that could be used to make them stronger in other ways.
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Mar 5, 2023 10:41
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quote:but why would you ever not use psi-shields as a psionic empire 1.No Zro to run Psi Shields. 2a.Never got the Psi-Barriers event, 2b.never got to draw Psi-Shields from the Shroud, or failed the roll to successfully get it if they got the choice that can give it. Bloodly fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 11:27
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Jack Trades posted:Cloaking kill shields, no? So use armor, yeah? So much stuff penetrates shields compared to armor you might as well, devs hate shielding for some reason
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Mar 5, 2023 13:16
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Do we know if they're using Star Trek rules where you have to decloak to shoot? (Which would make shields more strategically valuable than tactically, but still good.)
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Mar 5, 2023 13:27
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GunnerJ posted:Do we know if they're using Star Trek rules where you have to decloak to shoot? (Which would make shields more strategically valuable than tactically, but still good.) They said that attacking will decloak you, so it's not a button you'll manually click to uncloak if you don't want to, you just need to tell your fleet to attack when you're ready to reveal them.
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Mar 5, 2023 17:15
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scaterry posted:So use armor, yeah? Shield penetration is a classic sci-fi trope and gives torpedoes a reason to exist. Shields also regenerate relatively fast which is a pretty big deal for long campaigns since you don't need to pull fleets off the offensive to repair as much, and having something that punishes going all-in on shields is a good counter balance. I'm thinking unshielded corvette swarms built for evasion might be good with cloak shenanigans but I'll have to see how it plays out.
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Mar 5, 2023 18:01
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isndl posted:Shield penetration is a classic sci-fi trope and gives torpedoes a reason to exist. Shields also regenerate relatively fast which is a pretty big deal for long campaigns since you don't need to pull fleets off the offensive to repair as much, and having something that punishes going all-in on shields is a good counter balance. ...do people go all-in on shields? Most weapons counter shields. Missiles, Torpedoes, Strikecraft, and Disruptors straight up ignore it. Kinetics counter it. That's like 80% of the weapons in the game
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Mar 5, 2023 19:10
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Torpedo frigates decloaking at point blank range? 
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Mar 5, 2023 21:05
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isndl posted:I'm thinking unshielded corvette swarms built for evasion might be good with cloak shenanigans but I'll have to see how it plays out. Upon seeing all the downsides to cloaking bigger ships, my first thought was using cloaked frigate swarms to try and cripple important systems at the start of a war.
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Mar 5, 2023 23:29
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scaterry posted:...do people go all-in on shields? Most weapons counter shields. Missiles, Torpedoes, Strikecraft, and Disruptors straight up ignore it. Kinetics counter it. That's like 80% of the weapons in the game Again, shields are superior to armor/hull in the fact that they regenerate pretty fast, which armor and hull don't do. Unless you spend slots to make them regenerate very slowly. So it's only proper that shields are generally worse against most weapons than armor/hull.
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Mar 6, 2023 01:01
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scaterry posted:...do people go all-in on shields? Most weapons counter shields. Missiles, Torpedoes, Strikecraft, and Disruptors straight up ignore it. Kinetics counter it. That's like 80% of the weapons in the game The Contingency does.  Missiles and strike craft are also countered by point defense while standard weapons are not. Disruptor damage is garbage. Cloud Lightning can be good but is locked behind random map spawns and still doesn't take off until you're deep into the repeatable techs to buff it.
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Mar 6, 2023 01:44
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isndl posted:The Contingency does. I thought spamming disruptor corvettes was good now due to the way that disengagement changed in 3.6. Also finished won my unmodded necrophage devouring swarm crisis run in 2332 after being declared the crisis super early. I'm going to do a Determined Exterminator run next since I've never been able to get that to work - the energy upkeep from robo pops gets crazy in the lategame, and DE doesn't get the armor/hull regen that devouring swarms do so you actually have to take time to go repair your ships after big engagements. Much harder to consume all sentient life in the galaxy that way.
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Mar 6, 2023 02:00
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All I want is an isolationism stance that allows me to obliterate unknown cloaked fleets. Well that and cloaked science ships to do slow, sneaky digs in hostile territory.
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Mar 6, 2023 14:51
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So my "doomsday start for all" thing did not turn out as interesting as I imagined. Turns out the AI actually moves its population off their homeworld before it blows up, mostly. Enough that it did not cripple them. Which I found interesting.
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Mar 6, 2023 18:16
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One time, I had a rough start with belligerent neighbors in a very crowded small galaxy. After eating up what territory I could, and getting boxed in as all systems were claimed, I didn't have any real allies, but through a careful selection of rivalries, I could get enough opinion to get a few defensive pacts going, which kept everyone at bay. At this point the biggest threat was a devouring swarm right on the other side of a large-ish empire I've rivalled. I figured I had at least a decade before it became my problem, so I focused on building up my economy while letting my fleet stagnate, when suddenly the buffer empire just up and vanished. They were one of the largest powers nearby but they never left their Doomsday homeworld. Now there was nothing but empty space between me and a swarm I was not prepared to fight, and on top of that, a common rivalry was the only thing keeping an important defensive pact going, so now half the empires nearby are suddenly a threat too. I don't think AIs should be allowed to get the Doomsday origin.
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Mar 6, 2023 18:50
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Dunno-Lars posted:So my "doomsday start for all" thing did not turn out as interesting as I imagined. Turns out the AI actually moves its population off their homeworld before it blows up, mostly. Enough that it did not cripple them. Which I found interesting. if you want doomsday to be dangerous turn habitable planets down as low as it gets and max primitives having to fight a war to get off your exploding planet makes things much spicier
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Mar 6, 2023 19:39
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scaterry posted:Is it me or will cloaking be insane defensively? You almost can’t invade now without getting first struck or hyperlane camped since there’s no way to detect cloaking in someone else’s borders From reading how it works, I think you can still detect in their borders assuming you have a station with enough detection range and strength to see the fleet in question. If they park them in a nebula or a few hops away, it should indeed be invisible. It also looks that by having cloaking turned on they'll be slow as poo poo and I know at least personally as a warmonger my fleets are just about always busy moving around. Even if I could cloak them I wouldn't unless it was a pre-emptive strike thing against someone who doesn't have detection at their border.
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Mar 6, 2023 19:43
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Nuclearmonkee posted:From reading how it works, I think you can still detect in their borders assuming you have a station with enough detection range and strength to see the fleet in question. I see. So you'd need a station at the chokepoints to be safe. Sensor range is 3-4 meaning if you go further than that you risk getting wiped by cloaked frigates. And no such safety if you're declaring a distant war, like on the other side of a vassal/federation member. Given that the quantum catapult works with cloaked ships, it's likely hyper relays do too, allowing for fast travel of invisible ships through your empire. Good on defense Offensively, was it ever confirmed cloaked ships could ignore ftl inhibitors? If so, it's a strong way to bypass static defenses Honestly, the number one loser to cloaking is probably space-borne fauna. Leviathans are about to find a hundred invisible torpedoes pointed straight at them
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Mar 6, 2023 21:15
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I wonder if cloaked carriers can launch strike craft while avoiding detection.
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Mar 7, 2023 03:12
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I would be seriously surprised if they could.
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Mar 7, 2023 06:37
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All You Can Eat posted:I wonder if cloaked carriers can launch strike craft while avoiding detection. The devs have stated that telling your fleet to attack will decloak you, so if you want your carriers to surprise attack someone with strike craft, they need to be at point blank range.
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Mar 7, 2023 08:26
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Maybe cloaked battleships running all large autocannons could be good. Get nice and close before sending out all the projectiles. Just need a good anti-armor weapon to combine with it. Some mod have anti-armor versions of the autocannons with similar short range and would probably be even more broken with cloaking. Can't remember what mod it was sadly.
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Mar 7, 2023 08:35
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Honestly I really enjoy the idea of a fleet of mysterious stealth ships that get revealed to be a collection of essentially just steel bricks. Everyone just sort of assumed they'd be sleek and elegant, but no, these ships were designed with the knowledge that dropping out of cloak sets your shields to 0. Plate is life.
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Mar 7, 2023 10:01
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Why aren't space ships just big steel balls? Wouldn't an orb be the most efficient shape for space flight?
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Mar 7, 2023 10:09
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Because the realities of what maximum efficiency future space designs will probably look like suck and are boring
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Mar 7, 2023 10:22
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Spacewise orbs are wasteful. Clearly spaceships need to be hexagons.
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Mar 7, 2023 10:40
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AG3 posted:Spacewise orbs are wasteful. Clearly spaceships need to be hexagons. If you're using armor though, you want curved surfaces to have the best chance to deflect shots. A sphere is the best at it from any direction.
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Mar 7, 2023 10:52
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Jack Trades posted:Why aren't space ships just big steel balls? Wouldn't an orb be the most efficient shape for space flight? There's a Perry Rhodan (German SF) shipset I'm using that's just spheres, because that's how Terrans and many others build their ships in the setting. Aptly, it's the "Terran shipset" and the modder slipped a lot of famous ships from the series in as classes. The "science ship" of the set is modelled after the Sol, for example: A big ship that looks like two mountain-sized spheres connected by a mountain-sized tube. It spend a lot of time exploring, but it's mostly an in-joke, as of course science ships in Stellaris aren't approximately 6 miles long. The ship model still looks really sweet though.  Coincidentally, one of the main building materials for ship hulls in PR is "Terkonite", which is just steel that was compressed to an insane degree using energy fields. It's ludicrously dense and can withstand enormous amounts of heat and kinetic shock, but physically and chemically, it's still just steel.
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Mar 7, 2023 11:06
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Jack Trades posted:If you're using armor though, you want curved surfaces to have the best chance to deflect shots. A sphere is the best at it from any direction. a triangle actually is the strongest shape and would be best for ablative effort
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Mar 7, 2023 11:09
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Paracausal posted:a triangle actually is the strongest shape and would be best for ablative effort would fall a bit flat, imho
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Mar 7, 2023 11:14
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surely the correct answer is an 100-sided object, to ensure that you would only be destroyed on a hit on the 96-100 faces
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Mar 7, 2023 11:17
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Serpentis posted:surely the correct answer is an 100-sided object, to ensure that you would only be destroyed on a hit on the 96-100 faces
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Mar 7, 2023 11:32
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Splicer posted:Yeah but you have to change heading to shoot. but that's why you put the guns on the natural 1-5 faces to ensure they'll always hit!
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Mar 7, 2023 12:36
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The star exploder thingies you get from being the crisis have a nice cube shape. I want a shipset more like that. All my ships are built in space and travel through space, they do not need to be aerodynamic or airplane-shaped.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:36
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G8FNWZ0FUc All the archotech ship components, starbase structures and planetary buildings. Montu says he was in disbelief several times when he saw them, and I can only agree. Some of these are stupidly powerful. Several of them are inexplicitly not empire unique, but planet unique. And some of those starbase modules are also insane. The Zroni Storm Caster creates an artificial storm in the system, blocking sensors (like a nebula), nullifying shields (like a pulsar), reduces ship speed and fire rate, and also constantly damages hostile ships. Just kit out your starbase modules in all armor and hull modules, plus weapons that are good against armor and hull, and you'll probably just delete everything the AI will send at you.
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Mar 7, 2023 14:52
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Serpentis posted:but that's why you put the guns on the natural 1-5 faces to ensure they'll always hit! "When our great to a thousand great ancestors first rode the plains of our homelands, little could they have foreseen that one day space itself-" you pause, seeing a commotion at the grand entryway. "Let me through! I must..." The harried researcher sees you look in his direction and frantically waves a sheaf of papers high above their head. "My Liege! My Liege! The Rules Lawyers! They say... My Liege, call back the fleet!" Your wave him through, your mood shifting quickly from triumph to irritation and, after scanning the crumpled papers soon thrust into your hands, confusion. The lights, timed to your expected speech, dim as the maws of hyperspace open. The departure of the diceblessed fleet illuminates the strange words before you as you turn to the horrified scientist and state The Question. The Question, the legacy of a now-lost civilisation, the most quoted nine words of future history. The sentence that marked the beginning of True Science, and the doom of its discoverers. As the last of the fleet flickers out, as the pride, and ruination, of your empire leaves realspace for the darkness, never to return, you do not, cannot, understand the enormity of the implications when you ask: "What in the name of Rohan is a MERP?" Splicer fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 15:35
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Torrannor posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G8FNWZ0FUc Holy poo poo that first league building. 100 edict fund, only planet unique? That's insane I wish they'd take this opportunity to balance out the weaker precursors though. Zro, First League, Cybrex were already top tier, I don't really see the need to make them even better
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Mar 7, 2023 19:54
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Splicer posted:An aide whispers in your ear, and you tap your glass. Around you the low murmur of polite chatter fades out as the assembled space-aristocracy turns to face you.  magnificent
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Mar 7, 2023 21:17
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