Improbable Lobster posted:It was incredibly racist and any points that applied to japanese studios equally applied to western studios of the same size
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Mar 7, 2023 18:46
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What trends are you exactly referencing here
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Mar 7, 2023 18:51
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I just find it rich that an indie developer decided to do his damnedest to sound racist because of what the AAA companies were putting out and ignoring indie titles. I wonder if at any point he realized the exact same thing could be said about North American games as a whole because of what EA and Activision shovel out each year.
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Mar 7, 2023 18:59
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Saying it to a Japanese game devs face personally when he's just asking a question about Japanese games at a panel composed entirely of other game devs at a game dev conference which is supposed to be about exchanging ideas, networking and learning/teaching game development practices (generally I think the vibe is supposed to be pretty supportive) is an absolute shithead move and the blowback was entirely proportionate imo. He could have just bullshitted an answer about a Japanese game in history and been polite about it, he chose to do what he did, people gave him a lot of poo poo online about that. Rogue justice. thebardyspoon has a new favorite as of 19:11 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 19:02
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It’s worth noting that “you don’t die you get sent to a checkpoint” is something we saw as early as Pitfall II on the Atari VCS.
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Mar 7, 2023 19:02
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A Sometimes Food posted:That definitely seems to have been the turning point. I'm not sure if Souls sparked it but it's surprise success was definitely the first clear sign of a sea change. Then the sea changed again and good games like God of War got mangled into Sad Dad Open World Crafting.
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Mar 7, 2023 19:02
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I will keep calling them JRPGs so that I can get pixel remasters of the Dragon Quest games. I believe the two are related.
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Mar 7, 2023 19:09
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Man I love dark souls but their fans really are kind of insufferable
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Mar 7, 2023 19:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:Man I love dark souls but their fans really are kind of insufferable What prompted this?
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Mar 7, 2023 19:50
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A Sometimes Food posted:What prompted this? The posts about how Souls not having checkpoints saved gaming mainly
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Mar 7, 2023 19:56
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I have the first three Dark Souls game because I felt like I was supposed to like them.
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Mar 7, 2023 20:27
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thebardyspoon posted:Saying it to a Japanese game devs face personally when he's just asking a question about Japanese games at a panel composed entirely of other game devs at a game dev conference which is supposed to be about exchanging ideas, networking and learning/teaching game development practices (generally I think the vibe is supposed to be pretty supportive) is an absolute shithead move and the blowback was entirely proportionate imo. That Italian Guy has a new favorite as of 20:57 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 20:55
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Push El Burrito posted:I will keep calling them JRPGs so that I can get pixel remasters of the Dragon Quest games. I have good news.
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Mar 7, 2023 21:19
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CharlestheHammer posted:The posts about how Souls not having checkpoints saved gaming mainly Posts that don't exist then.
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Mar 7, 2023 21:25
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That Italian Guy posted:Apologies, I have somehow missed this part - I thought he had expressed a generalized dislike for "modern Japanese games" (with the caveat I mentioned before about what that could mean) in an aggressive way. The fact that he said that to a Japanese game Dev at a devs conference adds a level of malice (and the additional punching down caused by the "home field advantage") that definitely puts this in the offensive category. No need to apologise, it's a pretty minor game dev scene event from 10+ years ago so not knowing the exact details is fair enough. I googled it just to make sure I wasn't getting anything wrong and found this article full of quotes from when he was asked about it afterwards. Taking the advice of "don't back down, double down" to heart. https://www.eurogamer.net/fez-creator-phil-fish-declares-modern-japanese-games-just-suck Like many folks in this thread, he probably would have been fine if he'd just gone "ah yeah that was dumb. I thought it'd be a fun glib thing to say and then wave off, didn't think about how it'd hurt this guys feelings or be seen negatively, I hosed up, sorry" but like so many, that is an impossible path apparently. thebardyspoon has a new favorite as of 21:28 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 21:26
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A Sometimes Food posted:Posts that don't exist then. Like I said absolutely insufferable
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Mar 7, 2023 21:28
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Push El Burrito posted:I will keep calling them JRPGs so that I can get pixel remasters of the Dragon Quest games. They're just different types of games anyway. Chrono Trigger and Baldur's Gate do not scratch the same itch, even if they are both masterpieces of their respective forms. And I think the form matters more than the country; Undertale is absolutely a JRPG, and while I don't know of any Japanese CRPGs offhand, a Japanese studio making an RPG with character building, an open-ended design, long dialogue trees, crunchy stat fiddling, etc. would be making a CRPG and not a JRPG.
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Mar 7, 2023 21:32
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CharlestheHammer posted:Like I said absolutely insufferable Oh right. You're just an rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 7, 2023 21:42
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A Sometimes Food posted:Oh right. You're just an rear end in a top hat. Correct
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Mar 7, 2023 21:48
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Aces High posted:the point about Bioshock not letting you die seems kinda weird because the vita-chamber (or whatever it was called) concept was lifted directly from System Shock. Granted, in those games you usually had to do some exploring and, very likely, die for real a couple times before you figured out where and how to activate the respawn location for that deck but still, that was from 1994. That was a new idea for non-RPG games (unless it was also something that appeared in an Ultima game) since the majority of action games at the time either gave you lives or restarted the level, but stripped you back to your starting equipment Further back along the family tree you had Ultima Underworld where you planted a magic seed to lock in a particular respawn point, IIRC. In general it seems weird to dump on games for non-traditional death mechanics, while also putting Dark Souls on a pedestal. Kinda obvious what the actual, unspoken difference is. Woolie Wool posted:They're just different types of games anyway. Chrono Trigger and Baldur's Gate do not scratch the same itch, even if they are both masterpieces of their respective forms. And I think the form matters more than the country; Undertale is absolutely a JRPG, and while I don't know of any Japanese CRPGs offhand, a Japanese studio making an RPG with character building, an open-ended design, long dialogue trees, crunchy stat fiddling, etc. would be making a CRPG and not a JRPG. Wizardry is probably the #1 example, as it's a series that began as a western CRPG but then gained a second life in Japan. Basically any first-person dungeon crawler coming out of Japan is likely to owe a debt to it the same way Dragon Quest is the progenitor of basically the entire console RPG boom.
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Mar 7, 2023 21:51
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Push El Burrito posted:I will keep calling them JRPGs so that I can get pixel remasters of the Dragon Quest games. Do we pronounce it 'jur-pug' or what?
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Mar 7, 2023 21:51
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A Sometimes Food posted:Oh right. You're just an rear end in a top hat. Are you just now noticing? This is all he ever posts.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:01
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rodbeard posted:Are you just now noticing? This is all he ever posts. I don't really keep track of posters much.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:04
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rodbeard posted:Are you just now noticing? This is all he ever posts.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:08
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A Sometimes Food posted:I don't really keep track of posters much. Ignore lists on this site help a lot.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:13
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Hey gang! I'm having a lot of trouble following the topic. Could someone summarize for me what we're talking about? From what I gathered: An old X-Play video had a weird racist intro and dismissed JRPGs JRPG is a racist term and we should stop using it I feel so lost 
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Mar 7, 2023 22:15
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I guess I don't get why JRPG is racist, unless it's because it specifically denotes that it's from Japan? I thought it was a general catch-all for turn-based RPG, but I guess I'm wrong.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:18
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Leave posted:I guess I don't get why JRPG is racist, unless it's because it specifically denotes that it's from Japan? I thought it was a general catch-all for turn-based RPG, but I guess I'm wrong. Jimquisition actually did a really good episode recently on why we maaaaaaaybe shouldn't use that term anymore, and when you step back and take a look at the actual term, it comes off as pretty loving racist the way that it's been used in the past couple decades.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:21
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credburn posted:Hey gang! I'm having a lot of trouble following the topic. Could someone summarize for me what we're talking about? A couple of Japanese developers said that jrpg to them is seen as a loaded term cause of how prejudiced western games media was for much of their lives. Games media people said this was nonsense. People then found evidence of all these games media people being insanely racist about Japan.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:22
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Randalor posted:Jimquisition actually did a really good episode recently on why we maaaaaaaybe shouldn't use that term anymore, and when you step back and take a look at the actual term, it comes off as pretty loving racist the way that it's been used in the past couple decades. Oh wow, this is really interesting. I normally can't stand the editing styles of YouTube journalists but I like this, mostly. I was never aware that JRPGs were unloved? I've always loved them, people I know have generally preferred them above most other genres, and these forums have always been pretty positive toward JRPGs (sans weird anime aesthetics). God drat who is this Fish guy? He's someone taken seriously? What an annoying poo poo. I guess when I think of these terms... WRPG, JRPG, CRPG, SRPG, ARPG, MMORPG... there's no reason to attach JRPG to Japan because that's not necessarily what I think of when I think of JRPG. credburn has a new favorite as of 22:39 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 22:36
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I mean at the heart of it, labeling something with a racial or cultural modifier tends to skew towards prejudicial. (Except maybe food though you youvcan find examples of that too.) Like people use Wrpg but not nearly as much so you tend to see people classifying games as RPG or JRPG. Basically saying western RPGs are the standard and the JRPG are 'other'. Like you wouldn't refer to your white friend as just Dave and your other friend as Asian Dave without looking like a massive rear end in a top hat.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:43
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If there's a Black Debbie... ...does that mean there's a Black Stormy?
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Mar 7, 2023 22:44
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Naming aside, roleplaying videogames commonly produced in a country called Japan generally have a distinct style, both artistically and mechanically. Difference that usually is denotated by a separate name, even if they are part of the wider RPG-videogames community. Same with the comics I've read French comics. I've read American comics and Japanese comics. They are very different kind of styles to do comics, even if there's wide heterogeneity within each. (and they're all comics, no matter what name you call them). If you liked One Piece manga or Final Fantasy 7 remake and wanted some good recommendations what to read/play next, the country/style is a very relevant information.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:50
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i like JRPGs like Septerra Core and Anachronox
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Mar 7, 2023 22:52
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I like earthbound on an emulator at 2x speed
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Mar 7, 2023 22:53
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Issaries posted:Naming aside, roleplaying videogames commonly produced in a country called Japan generally have a distinct style, both artistically and mechanically. And what would that distinct artistic and mechanical style be? No, no, this is something you should be able to put into actual words.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:55
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I want em all like they did for Final Fantasy 1-6!
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Mar 7, 2023 22:56
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Randalor posted:And what would that distinct artistic and mechanical style be? No, no, this is something you should be able to put into actual words. it's a trap nobody respond
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Mar 7, 2023 23:00
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I'm thinking of how like a lot of early 3d games feel nigh unplayable now, and all games from the ps3 era were brown. What gaming things do u guys think will be very hated in ten years
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Mar 7, 2023 23:01
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endocriminologist posted:I'm thinking of how like a lot of early 3d games feel nigh unplayable now, and all games from the ps3 era were brown. What gaming things do u guys think will be very hated in ten years season passes / battle passes
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Mar 7, 2023 23:02
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