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"Special thanks to guy who clicked a specific set of game options"
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Mar 3, 2023 19:50
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Popete posted:Not necessarily, he could just get his handle put it. Going along with the hypothetical that he'll get in there, he doesn't control how he will be credited. There's no legal obligation to obfuscate his name in the credits, only to credit him as per whatever agreement. International IP law is many things but giving protection for aliases is not a part of it
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Mar 3, 2023 19:52
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He has a website where he lists his name and mailing address, as well as his own discord, and identifies himself as a disabled veteran. I get the impression he is one of those lawyers that makes a living going around suing small businesses for not being ADA compliant with himself as the plaintiff.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:53
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Arven posted:He has a website where he list his name and mailing address, as well as his own discord, and issues himself as a disabled veteran. I get the impression he is one of those lawyers that makes a living going around suing small business for not being ADA compliant with himself as the plaintiff. Someone said way back he's not even a lawyer yet. He's a law student that knows how to fill out some forms.
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Mar 3, 2023 19:54
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SettingSun posted:That person has to be a troll. That ‘update’ triggers every rage button I have. Seriously, gently caress that guy.
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Mar 3, 2023 20:03
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I thought the devs already said they were going to credit him once the game released? Sounds like he is claiming as a victory what the devs had already said what they were going to do (and which, again, they were under no legal obligation to do).
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Mar 3, 2023 20:27
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Path of least resistance is usually the best path .
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Mar 3, 2023 23:34
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Well, the game is back up. Comments about it seem to be that the dev capitulated to avoid a protracted legal battle. Perhaps that was the right move but it sucks the guy seems to get what he wanted.
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Mar 4, 2023 17:45
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I mean, once the sting of that wears off, then yeah fine, but I wish that little jerk got his stupid wants crushed on principle. Glad the games back up.
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Mar 4, 2023 17:53
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We can only hope that someone mentions this episode to their state bar, since it's a lot easier to just not let him actually be a lawyer than to deal with ever disbarring him.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:23
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I don’t know how state bar orgs hold themselves but I’ve got to imagine being overly litigious is probably a feature, not a bug, for a lot of lawyers.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:32
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If youre overly litigious and wrong the bar definitely cares. Since this didn't go to court I'm not sure it'd register. I think DMCA has something stupid where the take down stands until the case is heard so they probably looked at the case load of where it's likely to be heard and decided they wanted revenue sooner than it'd be heard.
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Mar 4, 2023 18:42
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zedprime posted:If youre overly litigious and wrong the bar definitely cares. It's the opposite iirc, when you send a counter claim the content goes back up, and it goes to court. The idea being that shady operators aren't going to want to put their name on something to keep it up, while if you own the copyright you would in fact be willing to go to court over it. This works exactly as well as you would expect.
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Mar 5, 2023 02:27
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3Division put out a statement today.quote:Dear Community and Players,We are pleased to announce that our game is now back in the store!We thank you for your patience, support and understanding as we navigated this tricky situation.We want to apologize to those who were looking to purchase the game and were unable to. We realize that we underestimated the situation, and it quickly escalated to a point that posed a threat to our game. We greatly wish that this had not been the case.But we are now back on track and you can fully enjoy the game! We are excited to get back fully to the development and put this matter behind us.3DIVISIONDev Team Sure doesn't seem like a retraction of any previous statements. Curios if they'll actually put him in the credits or the guy was just making the whole thing up.
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Mar 5, 2023 03:40
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Just fuckin give baby his drat bottle and leave us to making socialist utopias
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Mar 5, 2023 04:35
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Sounds like they talked to some lawyers who saved the day. Hooray for lawyers.
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Mar 5, 2023 12:01
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lawyers, the cause of, and solution to, all life's problems
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Mar 5, 2023 12:10
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euphronius posted:Sounds like they talked to some lawyers who saved the day. Hooray for lawyers. This is how I read the statement. Very prepared, doesn't actually state anything except that they are back and reached an agreement. The "gently caress that guy" attitude from before is gone. I'm imagining that the actual story we hear in a few years will be delightfully spicy.
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Mar 5, 2023 18:45
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The original 'gently caress that guy' post on Steam hasn't been removed or edited, so it doesn't look like they fully gave in even if the guy is claiming victory.
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Mar 5, 2023 19:32
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The devs have been commenting in some discussions on their Steam forum and the vibe is that they chose to do whatever they did versus potentially having their game off the store for months. They understandably don't have any faith in Valve to back them up if they kept fighting Name In Credits guy. e: might as well just quote it. quote:I known, some of you are worry about option to put him into the credits. But you need realize that the fact game is down from the store causing massive damages on financial, human resources, development. They're also back to regular reports on the garbage update, which is looking cool. https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/784150/view/3689048990876810219?l=english quote:That is some of the things we are working on, and we can also mention couple of things we are developing about which we will inform you about in upcoming reports. You may get much more in the next big update than you expected because we are working on couple of interesting features from which we want to mention: maintenance, building demolition, mods incorporation , research programs for universities and fertilizing for the fields. Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 20:44
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I think we have smart community, it will not get distracted by couple of messages.
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Also asphalt footpaths! Finally
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Mar 6, 2023 15:53
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They mention adding building demolition, which sounds cool, and maintenance, which sounds realistic but I prefer the way it works now. I'm sure it'll be a difficulty setting like everything else, though.
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Mar 6, 2023 15:57
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Log082 posted:They mention adding building demolition, which sounds cool, and maintenance, which sounds realistic but I prefer the way it works now. When I do demo it's always because I'm loving around with my broken layout so I'm auto-buying everything anyway.
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Mar 6, 2023 16:52
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I really hope once all of these systems are into the game they go over the happiness mechanic and make it more of a metagame. Use alcohol to make up for the fact your buildings are crumbling at expense of health, allow western media for happiness at the expense of loyalty, and other stuff like that. Right now if any one of your utilities or citizen needs are disrupted it can cause a literal death spiral that you can basically only recover from by importing new workers after everyone is dead.
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Mar 7, 2023 04:03
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Maintenence could be interesting in that it could add a use for materials beyond exporting them. The game could always use more sinks for the things your citizens can't eat. The thing from the earlier log about electronics factories producing less and less as time goes on is also interesting, albeit possibly a weird way to model the expansion of electronics as a commodity. I'm not sure how you could model it otherwise though unless they were literally perishable to indicate obsolescence.
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Mar 7, 2023 04:24
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I really wish the job shift thing was less garbage.
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Mar 7, 2023 04:36
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Minenfeld! posted:I really wish the job shift thing was less garbage. Sorry I think they said they were making the jobs more garbage.
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Mar 7, 2023 04:38
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I'm feeling the itch to play again but was wondering - is there a good collection for starting early? Last few times I played I just imported workers to build out a big road infrastructure for the first few years, before even building housing, and I can do all that in the early 1900s too so I was planning to start earlier. Also is there any mod to let you move planned buildings? I find a lot of my burnout in this game comes from just trying to figure out how to connect various buildings, like putting up a gravel processing into cement, concrete, and asphalt industrial area. It always takes me ages to build and then remove and adjust each piece over and over trying to get them to connect nicely and still be reasonably accessible by roads and paths. If I could just click on a blueprint of a building and drag it around, maintaining the connections, it would really speed things up. Not sure if that's something that can be modded in or I have to wait for the developers.
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Mar 7, 2023 06:47
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Koobze posted:I'm feeling the itch to play again but was wondering - is there a good collection for starting early? Last few times I played I just imported workers to build out a big road infrastructure for the first few years, before even building housing, and I can do all that in the early 1900s too so I was planning to start earlier. There’s definitely enough mods to give you a fairly “balanced” start from about 1932. There’s certainly earlier starts but it gets pretty weird to start earlier, imo. Considering a hugely limiting factor quickly becomes “only so many trucks can unload at one time” it’s really hard to play with tiny, slow poo poo. If you more meant “did someone put all these in one collection” - yes and no. You can find early start workshop collections easily, but imo a lot of the mods are horrible poo poo and I spent a long time carefully curating my vehicles for the 30’s start so I didn’t have abject trash that conflicts with the entire rest of the game. What you want mechanically doesn’t exist and I doubt it will. Your specific problem is real and I’m not discounting that, but you’re running into a particular wall that’s easy to become a burnout trap early - “automating” the entire construction industry sector. You’ll quickly avoid the worst instances of “gently caress, I wish I could move this” if you don’t pack every single one of the buildings in about 3 chains into one “destination.” Before I go into what I’d suggest, a couple tips if you haven’t heard them before: Press T, you can mirror buildings and that helps immensely. And go get conveyor tower mods from the workshop so you aren’t stuck with the default ones. That’ll help a whole ton. First, I’m going to say don’t plan on exporting bricks, panels, or their component parts (gravel, coal, cement.) You certainly can, but if you’re burning out designing it, you might be doing too much. If you want to export them from there, consider a small rail depot that gets fed by high frequency trucks as a “shuttle” from a storage or factory to the export rail yard. I say this first because now you aren’t worried about fitting a bunch of rail spurs into the area. Further, a fully optimized gravel processing (like, the one from the workshop that allows trucks to move simultaneously in the parking area) will only kind of feed your panel and cement factory at full production. Getting all of this working at that efficiency and then efficiently exporting… Another post, for sure. Second, it’s not going to fit all around a single worker station - especially if you’re trying to include a coal mine and processing. Consider a route that includes 2 stops or more, or even two separate routes. This is usually a good case where you can flood the route with workers and make the last stop your first coal mine as a worker sink. Third, don’t put concrete and asphalt factories in this mix. This is advice not just for planning the facility, but also for traffic. When you build a new building - especially on an early start - you’re going to send all 40 of your lovely concrete trucks at once to the concrete plant. Chances are if you’re using the roads for the worker buses, your workers now aren’t getting there because the trucks they’re trying to fill are blocking them. In addition, this is a trap. It seems like a good idea now, because all your construction is central here. It won’t be, and if you really carry a save a long time, you might downright get rid of concrete and asphalt plants in places that aren’t under heavy construction. It seems counter intuitive, but those two plants should almost be treated like temporary, “build and demolish” buildings in areas central to expansion, or thought about more in construction hubs, imo. So, to bring it all together with the “Why’s:” If you aren’t exporting panels or cement, you don’t need a cement throughput that’s very high at all. Deliver it to concrete factories and even the panel factory with a few trucks. You can set them to wait to unload and they’ll not even waste fuel as they wait before they go back and get concrete. For my concrete and asphalt plants, I generally build them in separate areas with their own buffer storage - a small gravel storage, and a small (workshop mod) cement storage. These buildings tend to have very uneven demand unless you’re really microing your construction - having a buffer storage let’s everyone show up and demand a full load of concrete but then in between gives your trucks time to replenish the glut of cement just used. Trucking dry bulk (concrete) saves you a ton of spaghetti, since you really only need to worry about gravel. Bricks usually aren’t bad, needing only coal - that’s a good chain to export without creating a nightmare. Bus stops are cheap and small, especially modded ones. So long as you aren’t reaaally stretching a commute there’s arguably not a lot of difference between a 3 and 4 hour commute. If you have multiple, you aren’t worried about cramming your buildings into a 400m square around a single station. Plus - if you aren’t exporting - panels, bricks, gravel, and cement are all very unevenly used and the factories produce way more than you can realistically bring to construction sites unless you’re absolutely crushing construction. Give the factories a little overflow storage and turn down their workers a lot. Now you can feed those factories with minibuses and don’t need a train to carry several hundred people. If you aren’t exporting, you’re essentially eating the design overhead to let a bunch of people be idle all day. Without train exports or train commuting and with several bus stops, you can give yourself the room to not need to constantly fight the, “gently caress god drat it this road and this path don’t fit under the conveyor I need to nudge this poo poo 10m west.” And to go back to concrete and asphalt… I don’t think I have any more words on that. They’re just an easy trap to want to build there and it makes it absolute chaos because now you’re running dry bulk and aggregate poo poo to even more places. Give them their own space and a buffer storage and feed them with trucks. It’ll be fine for your start, you can get fancier later. All that said: you’ve absolutely got the right brain damage and you’re chasing the right idea. You absolutely can do everything in one “facility” and keep it tight and efficient, but you’re chasing probably the hardest thing in the game to design perfectly. It’s a shame that those industries make up the fundamentals of the autarky, really, because people hit that wall first.  I shared this before, and this is my favorite construction industry yet. No concrete plant, no asphalt plant. Full export of panels, bricks, cement, gravel, or coal, if desired. Technically it is fed by a single passenger train station (if you squint and ignore the cable car route over to the coal mine.) You can absolutely design this and I know it’s what you’re chasing - but where my fancy cities that people like take like, a few hours from laying the roads to actually being populated and having all the lines feeding them… I probably spent over 5 hours… but probably(? Maybe?) not 10 on pause designing that construction goods facility. Like, I spent two gaming sessions with the game on pause just futzing with only these facilities. And I still can see a whole host of improvements if I had just spent longer. So, TL;DR: scale down your design, don’t burnout on perfect. e: and maybe a second general TLDR: spread out industries and don’t think everything has to connect to everything via “hard points.” Sometimes you gotta connect poo poo to trucks and trains. Another trap for this is thinking you want the farm trucks to immediately feed a food factory. Just train the crops from the farm to a factory nearer to a city! Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 07:40
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In part for that reason the last time I played I didn't do any megacomplexes. Sure you would want to build factories next to one of their mine sites probably, but you don't need fully integrated complexes for everything. With DOs you can easily set up stockpiles around the map even just using trucks, and the rail DOs really let you ship stuff around en-masse. Make sure everything either is, or could be made accessible by rail and has big storage yards for goods, and you can draw together your production quite easily from distributed plants. E: with farms as you say I think it's probably better to train the stuff out of the farm into a big holding facility, because you need to be able to store big piles of grain so you can consume it over the course of the year, and setting up that kind of mass storage is a challenge in and of itself (also a good thing to use mods for, big grain silo arrays) Trying to work all of that into a factory complex or the farm building itself is a nightmare. Set your farms up with some basic silos and a train station and build a dedicated storage yard for gigantic amounts of grain, set up more DOs to export overflow quantities and send the rest on to a separate food factory, so much less stress than trying to connect all of that with forklifts in a single zone. Honestly the game really makes you hate JIT logistics, because the biggest headache is trying to sort out transit to be timely, which does push you to do factory to factory connections all over the place and mass centralization but honest to god you can save a lot of headache by just saying gently caress that and slapping massive amounts of storage onto everything and using that to pick up the slack. JIT is capitalist propaganda, in soviet republic we put everything in big pile so it doesn't matter if train is late. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 07:48
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OwlFancier posted:Honestly the game really makes you hate JIT logistics If someone asked me the biggest ideological reinforcement of this game, hating JIT logistics would be multiple orders of magnitude ahead of "Soviet style socialism is [good or bad]" in a game that's entirely about Soviet Style Socialism.
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Mar 7, 2023 07:57
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Awesome tips Thanks for all the tips! Absolutely valid points and I need to do more of all of that. I've never even made rail yet so building things with an eye out for rail connections, and spreading everything out, is a great tip. I do usually have a lot of buffers everywhere and run most buildings with minimal staff just to fill buffers over time, but somehow thought splitting it out and requiring some more buffer and shipping would be too much extra traffic... but as you mention it's not high-volume constantly so a trickle of trucks spreading the manufactured goods around is the right approach. I generally already have a "construction area" where I keep some construction offices and local storage, so my industrial area producing the panels/bricks etc doesn't have much JIT traffic anyway. I'll grab some ~1930s stuff and maybe give it another go with a plan to limit individual industrial areas, and also build in space for rail connections for the future if things to scale up to significant volume. Honestly in retrospect I'm not sure why I always aimed to all-in-one my gravel processing and related industry, for sure I've also spent hours on pause just building/destroying/shifting a few pixels and repeating.
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Mar 7, 2023 09:34
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Anime Store Adventure posted:If someone asked me the biggest ideological reinforcement of this game, hating JIT logistics would be multiple orders of magnitude ahead of "Soviet style socialism is [good or bad]" in a game that's entirely about Soviet Style Socialism. When I was making a megacity last time I ended up putting a dedicated rail spur and warehouse to supply the shopping center just because the sheer volume of people buying from it would require an entire DO to do with trucks. There's a few things that really have rather small warehouses for how fast they go through resources at full capacity and the consumer goods sector is top of that list. I really wish you could build more silly projects, desperately want an entire underground rail cargo handling and storage system for the city. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 10:04
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OwlFancier posted:When I was making a megacity last time I ended up putting a dedicated rail line and add-on warehouse to supply the shopping center just because the sheer volume of people buying from it would require an entire DO to do with trucks. There's a few things that really have rather small warehouses for how fast they go through resources at full capacity and the consumer goods sector is top of that list. I really hate that the "backroom" of stores is so loving small because it makes it really loving hard to ever want to make smaller, local stores for just this reason. A complex fed by rail with a constant forklift stream (perhaps the only time I use them) becomes the only way to feed big cities. I don't care if traffic and a slow truck with a bad route (too far, etc) leads to a supply deficit - thats the whole game's challenge imo - but I do think that it's bullshit that stores can drain so fast and can't store anything that they essentially need a constant loop of traffic to prevent running dry.
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Mar 7, 2023 10:10
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I mean a medium sized store where I live will take two artics per day, plus extra for bread/milk deliveries, and the warehouse is probably capable of holding maybe two or three wagon loads. Though that doesn't really abstract super well with the compressed scale of the game and also I live somewhere that is optimised for the JIT approach and warehouse space has been steadily cannibalized into an extra distribution step for home shopping deliveries. It does feel very silly in the game having a constant parade of lorries going into the store though and it would be nice if we could choose how much of the store to devote to storage vs retail space. That might actually be a nice thing for a lot of buildings actually, throughput vs integrated storage. Might cause problems for buildings with external storage yards though. Perhaps instead we could use the helipad system to tack more storage yards onto buildings and have them stick together in the UI. If you are using a DO it works fine and can handle spread out smaller stores without putting all the traffic on one road, but for urban centers yeah you do really need a train line. Which is fine I guess but it does feel weird. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 10:21
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OwlFancier posted:I mean a medium sized store where I live will take two artics per day, plus extra for bread/milk deliveries, and the warehouse is probably capable of holding maybe two or three wagon loads. Though that doesn't really abstract super well with the compressed scale of the game and also I live somewhere that is optimised for the JIT approach and warehouse space has been steadily cannibalized into an extra distribution step for home shopping deliveries. It does feel very silly in the game having a constant parade of lorries going into the store though and it would be nice if we could choose how much of the store to devote to storage vs retail space. That might actually be a nice thing for a lot of buildings actually, throughput vs integrated storage. Might cause problems for buildings with external storage yards though. Perhaps instead we could use the helipad system to tack more storage yards onto buildings and have them stick together in the UI. My problem is heavily exacerbated by a fairly poor road design (a box canyon city with one in/out road that the city warehouse is on) and especially early start small/lovely trucks and personal car traffic, but it still very much hits me as a “I shouldn’t have to have this scale of fleet to service 4 medium stores.” Even with traffic, a stocked warehouse within no more than about 500m or so by road shouldn’t need a parade of trucks. As it stands there’s basically not much argument for a non articulated truck because last mile delivery still needs to be at multiple tractor-trailer scale to keep up. That’s fine, in the end, but it’s a spot where I feel the abstraction loses me and it feels gamier than it should be. It stands out because I think the game doesn’t have a lot of those problems usually.
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Mar 7, 2023 10:32
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Retail last mile is insane in real life so it doesn't really register as a problem with the ways it's been simplified for this game. I think my retail dream for this game is differentiating store fronts so that they still take the basic consumer retail goods but sell them as slightly different flavors. Track substats of food like hot meals, bread, fruit, vegetables, roast cuts, stew cuts etc. that are sold from an appropriate store front. Food delivered and is turned into the subgood just by selling it, satisfying a part of the need. You can start small towns like today with a generic grocery store and a small store which keeps people's needs met enough to not die or escape but then have a goal of stacking up into a main street with needs bonuses from specialty stores which would both look cool and give bigger back room storage in a way by letting you fill 6 stores up instead of 2. Large stores and malls flavor everything under one roof, slightly justifying the parade of trucks because while your logistic eagle eye sees them as 5 food trucks, your imagination can realize it's a bread truck and a fruit truck etc.
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Mar 7, 2023 18:52
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I feel like honestly it would be nice if there was a variant of a DO which worked like technical services does for water. Rather than setting up each individual consumer and levels, it just automatically supplied all consumers in the work area from a defined loading point. Because the big annoyance with building a very distributed consumer goods infrastructure is setting up all of the loving DO routes for it. Just let me slop down some buildings and point them at a warehouse and then they automatically send out a big fleet of vans to deliver to all the little pubs and restaurants.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:14
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OwlFancier posted:I feel like honestly it would be nice if there was a variant of a DO which worked like technical services does for water. Rather than setting up each individual consumer and levels, it just automatically supplied all consumers in the work area from a defined loading point. Isn't that pretty much how they work? You have to click on the consumers but it's not like you have that many, right?
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Mar 8, 2023 01:44
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PerniciousKnid posted:Isn't that pretty much how they work? You have to click on the consumers but it's not like you have that many, right? I don't have that many because I avoid building lots of them due to not wanting to set up the DOs. If I were to actually build all the service buildings and such I would have to set up a bunch of DOs, and DOs can only serve 20 buildings including the source buildings. For a case where I always want the buildings to be full and it has a set of known products, the technical services model would be far, far more convenient in a game which already suffers what i would characterise as a bit of bloat in the area of setting up distribution systems. DOs make sense for what I would describe as mid level transport, when you want to set up a number of routes for specific items across potentially large distances, but they don't need to run constantly. Like... small train routes, basically. But for taking stuff out of a local warehouse and spreading it around a city which might have dozens of consumers scattered randomly through it, that's hard to manage just from a visual perspective. Remembering which DO serves which facility and where they're all just taking stuff from the warehouse and filling small local storage... well the game already has a model for that and it's the water trucks.
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Mar 8, 2023 01:59
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