Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
What is the most powerful flying bug?
This poll is closed.
🦋 15 3.71%
🦇 115 28.47%
🪰 12 2.97%
🐦 67 16.58%
dragonfly 94 23.27%
🦟 14 3.47%
🐝 87 21.53%
Total: 404 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Post
  • Reply
mawarannahr
May 21, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!

this is the official bipartisan list from todays RESTRICT bill
(8) FOREIGN ADVERSARY.—The term"foreign adversary"
  1. means any foreign government or regime, determined by the Secretary, pursuant to sections 3 and 5, to have engaged in a longterm pattern or serious instances of conduct significantly adverse to the national security of the United States or the security and safety of United States persons; and
  2. includes, unless removed by the Secretary pursuant to section 6—
    1. the People’s Republic of China, including the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and Macao Special Administrative Region;
    2. the Republic of Cuba;
    3. the Islamic Republic of Iran;
    4. the Democratic People’s Republic
      of Korea;
    5. the Russian Federation; and
    6. the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela under the regime of Nicolas Maduro Moros.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
i cant see any possible downside to invading a country with 126 million people in it full of mountains and jungles and massive quantities of guns.

Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005

mawarannahr posted:

this is the official bipartisan list from todays RESTRICT bill
(8) FOREIGN ADVERSARY.—The term"foreign adversary"
  1. means any foreign government or regime, determined by the Secretary, pursuant to sections 3 and 5, to have engaged in a longterm pattern or serious instances of conduct significantly adverse to the national security of the United States or the security and safety of United States persons; and
  2. includes, unless removed by the Secretary pursuant to section 6—
    1. the People’s Republic of China, including the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and Macao Special Administrative Region;
    2. the Republic of Cuba;
    3. the Islamic Republic of Iran;
    4. the Democratic People’s Republic
      of Korea;
    5. the Russian Federation; and
    6. the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela under the regime of Nicolas Maduro Moros.

Mah Axis of Evil (tm)!

mawarannahr
May 21, 2019
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!
it's cool Maduro got the only callout by name. they even added the "Moros"

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Al-Saqr posted:

i cant see any possible downside to invading a country with 126 million people in it full of mountains and jungles and massive quantities of guns.

We just got out of one 20 year failure, we need a new one.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
cant a humble bus driver just run a country in peace and cronch some empanadas without america getting up in his grill

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

I hate to be the idiot that mentions 1984, especially since I didn't even read it.

But it's just wrong information, that's what they mean. And more specifically controlling the media narrative on social media and news media outlets.

Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 05:46 on Mar 8, 2023

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Al-Saqr posted:

cant a humble bus driver just run a country in peace and cronch some empanadas without america getting up in his grill

I'm sorry I can't hear you over the pleasant *woosh* *woosh* of the oil pumps.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Why are they undoing the Sino-Soviet Split, but this time the US consumer economy (and much besides) relies 100% on China?

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Weka posted:

Is that a fancy cut of beef to you?

You're right it should have been an endangered turtle steak. Nothing but the best for Brussels.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Lostconfused posted:

I hate to the idiot that mentions 1984, especially since I didn't even read it.

But it's just wrong information, that's what they mean. And more specifically controlling the media narrative on social media and news media outlets.

S'ok. Worth a read just so you can throw the fact that you actually read it into the face of people who quote it out of context.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

I've read Brave New World, and Fahrenheit 451.

But they just didn't do anything for me, I just can't deal with the weird dissonance of something trying to be futuristic but seeming extremely dated in modern context.

dk2m
May 6, 2009

Frosted Flake posted:

Why are they undoing the Sino-Soviet Split, but this time the US consumer economy (and much besides) relies 100% on China?

there is absolutely 0 plan on contingencies here. what is fascinating is how the business class is going along with this - initially, when trump started the trade war, there was a lot of admonishment because this is the logical endgame. instead, they are quietly allowing biden to double down and ramp up military rhetoric as well.

we are well past the ability to untangle ourselves from China. as Tim Cook once remarked, we don’t manufacture in China anymore because it’s cheap; it’s because they are one of the only countries left that have the industrial know-how to manufacture at scale.

https://fortune.com/videos/watch/in...a9-c7f1192a82ea

after 30 years of the harvard MBAs insistence that the purpose of a company is to give back to the shareholders, every company is CFO led and the industrial engineer CEO has been pushed out. all our modern business class knows how to do is inflate their stock, they don’t know how to actually manufacture.

if a war turns hot, the shortages in this country will make covid look like nothing.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

I guess I didn’t realize The End of History was this poisonous to the ruling class itself.

It makes no sense unless they plan on reindustralizing the US, which of course they don’t, so their plan is a military confrontation, hot or cold, with the nation that makes everything that allows American society to function except food.

China will keep providing the consumer products that allow the American ruling class to placate the population with cheap goods because…?

It doesn’t help that they call their shots like this and act astounded when China and Russia respond lmao.

e: Japan and Korea might have been counterweights to China but the US deliberately destroyed the Japanese economy, so again… what’s the thought process here?

ee: Ditto wrecking the German economy as we speak.

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011

Frosted Flake posted:

Why are they undoing the Sino-Soviet Split, but this time the US consumer economy (and much besides) relies 100% on China?

no one who thinks about material reality is allowed anywhere near power or influence

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Best Friends posted:

no one who thinks about material reality is allowed anywhere near power or influence

It is this simple, you don't need to twist yourself into knots trying to figure it out. It really is just this.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Transnistria thing came and went, now it's Georgia. Lets see if Georgia will stick around in the news/rumor mill longer I guess.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy
It makes plenty of sense when you realise the ruling class only care about their personal wealth and wellbeing. They're quite happy if the price is someone else's misery. Even their own nation. Worst case they'll just physically move to greener pastures.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
this is why i loving despise people like Jon Stewart who think pointing out other peoples hypocrisy works in any way, no you loving dummy its about power and who wields it enough to force you to do what they want. instert mao politics barrel gun quote here.

fizzy
Dec 2, 2022

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
A history of the strategic value of Bakhmut


24 January 2023 - "US and Western officials"

quote:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/24/politics/ukraine-shift-tactics-bakhmut/index.html

The US and its allies want Ukraine to change its battlefield tactics in the spring
By Natasha Bertrand, Alex Marquardt and Katie Bo Lillis, CNN
Updated 8:18 AM EST, Tue January 24, 2023

Now, ahead of what is widely expected to be a brutal spring of fighting, there is a tactical opening, US and Western officials say. In recent weeks they have begun suggesting that Ukrainian forces cut their losses in Bakhmut, which they argue has little strategic significance for Ukraine, and focus instead on planning an offensive in the south.


7 February 2023 - Yehor Cherniev, a Ukrainian lawmaker and head of the Ukrainian delegation to the NATO parliamentary assembly

quote:

https://time.com/6253515/bakhmut-battle-ukraine-russia/

Why Russia Is So Determined To Capture Bakhmut
BY YASMEEN SERHAN AND TARA LAW
FEBRUARY 7, 2023 1:03 PM EST

Yehor Cherniev, a Ukrainian lawmaker and head of the Ukrainian delegation to the NATO parliamentary assembly, tells TIME that although Bakhmut “is not of strategic importance” to Kyiv, they will nonetheless “try to hold it as long as possible.”


4 March 2023 - U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin

quote:

https://www.voanews.com/a/us-defense-chief-says-ukraine-s-bakhmut-has-more-symbolic-than-strategic-value/6991380.html

US Defense Chief: Ukraine's Bakhmut Is Symbolic Rather Than Strategic
March 06, 2023 6:06 AM
UPDATE March 06, 2023 12:54 PM

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin said Monday if Russian troops manage to seize control of the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut, that would not represent a decisive shift in the conflict.

"I think it is more of a symbolic value than it is strategic and operational value," Austin told reporters during a visit to Jordan.


6 March 2023 - "Analysts"

quote:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/ukraine-vows-to-hold-bakhmut-as-russia-continues-fight-to-capture-the-city
Updated on Mar 6, 2023 12:50 PM EST
Published on Mar 6, 2023 9:32 AM EST

Ukraine vows to hold Bakhmut as Russia continues fight to capture the city

Russian forces that invaded Ukraine just over a year ago have been unable to deliver a knockout blow that would allow them to seize Bakhmut. Analysts say it does not have major strategic value and that its capture would be unlikely to serve as a turning point in the conflict.


7 March 2023 - "Analysts"

quote:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/03/bakhmut-battle-ukraine-russia/
By Claire Parker
Updated March 7, 2023 at 1:57 p.m. EST
Published March 3, 2023 at 11:33 a.m. EST

Before the war, Bakhmut was mostly known as a center of the salt industry. But the relentless, intensifying fight for control of the city — which analysts say holds little strategic importance — has made it a rallying cry and political battleground for both sides.


7 March 2023 - "Military experts and close watchers of the Ukrainian battlefields"

quote:

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-war-bakhmut-significance/32307329.html

If Bakhmut Falls: What The Battle For A City Of Little Military Significance Means For The Ukraine War
By Mike Eckel
March 07, 2023 17:47 GMT

For military experts and close watchers of the Ukrainian battlefields, Bakhmut's symbolic importance far outweighs its strategic importance. Straddling the Bakhmutka River, just 20 kilometers west of the Luhansk region administrative border, the city, with a prewar population of around 70,000, used to be known mostly for its sparkling wines and salt mines.


7 March 2023 - "Analysts"

quote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64864496

Ukraine war: Bakhmut defenders double down - Zelensky
7 March 2023

Analysts say Bakhmut has little strategic value, but has become a focal point for Russian commanders who have struggled to deliver any positive news to the Kremlin.


7 March 2023 - Institute for the Study of War

quote:

https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/07/ukraine-to-continue-fight-for-bakhmut-as-russian-troops-struggle-to-make-gains

Ukraine to continue fight for Bakhmut as Russian troops struggle to make gains
By Oleksandra Vakulina
Updated: 07/03/2023 - 18:00

However, the Institute for the Study of War said that Bakhmut is not intrinsically significant - operationally or strategically.





7 March 2023 - President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky

quote:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/07/europe/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-cnn-interview-bakhmut-intl/index.html

Exclusive: Zelensky warns of ‘open road’ through Ukraine’s east if Russia captures Bakhmut, as he resists calls to retreat
By Rob Picheta, CNN
Updated 5:19 PM EST, Tue March 7, 2023

Russian troops will have “open road” to capture key cities in eastern Ukraine if they seize control of Bakhmut, President Volodymyr Zelensky warned in an interview with CNN, as he defended his decision to keep Ukrainian forces in the besieged city.

“This is tactical for us,” Zelensky said, insisting that Kyiv’s military brass is united in prolonging its defense of the city after weeks of Russian attacks left it on the cusp of falling to Moscow’s troops.

“We understand that after Bakhmut they could go further. They could go to Kramatorsk, they could go to Sloviansk, it would be open road for the Russians after Bakhmut to other towns in Ukraine, in the Donetsk direction,” he told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer in an exclusive interview from Kyiv. “That’s why our guys are standing there.”

dk2m
May 6, 2009

Frosted Flake posted:

I guess I didn’t realize The End of History was this poisonous to the ruling class itself.

When China was first admitted to the WTO in 2001, the ruling class thought that China would become like Japan - we would benefit from cheap labor and cheap goods, but just like the Plaza Accords has kept Japan in stagflation since the 90s after their exports became too competitive with our industry, we would eventually be able to influence a newly liberalized China into a similarly weak position.

Instead of the state weakening as free market forces flooded, they simply re-organized the relationship between capital and state. Capital was always subordinate to the state and nowhere is that more apparent in the fact that their central bank is state owned. This largely prevented a financialized economy from taking shape, which we in the west call a “service economy”. China has also deliberately has kept their billionaire class in check by periodically cracking down on them.

This has completely shocked the West, in which we are so used to a financial oligarchy being the #1 priority, especially after they got bailed out in 2008. The average Chinese therefore supports their government, and the dreams of neoliberals like Bill Clinton never materialized - there was never a moment where we had enough economic leverage over China to force them into a position like Japan in the 90s and Germany/EU now.

It’s not widely understood how the trade surplus affects this as well - Russia, for example, had a trade surplus with the US as they are an export nation due to their rich natural resources. Sanctions work because they prevent countries from obtaining US dollars to their central bank, which ultimately affects their currency and therefore their consumer spending. By seizing Russias foreign reserves, it was thought that it could completely cripple them for that reason. What has ended up happening is that we now are understanding that sanctions work on heavily financialized or debt burdened economies.

Because Russia has prepared for this day since the first sanction in 2008, they had collected vast gold storages and quickly moved to back any trade deficits with gold, preventing a shock. After it stabilized their currency, they went back to their regime of commodity exports and it has completely strengthened their currency. What this now shows is that we’ve entered an age where raw production, commodities, and goods are more valuable than foreign reserves.

This is a lesson we’re unprepared on how to deal with. For the first time, American economic might has not dealt a death blow - Venezuela, Iran, Cuba and North Korea all fell victim. We’ve now shown all the world our cards, and China can confidently project power because not only has the trade war sanctions backfired (Huawei exited the consumer market and has made huge shares in the industrial market), but our sanctions simply won’t work on a natural resource and goods/commodity based economy like China.

40 years of neoliberalism has not prepared any of our leaders, let alone everyday people, to contemplate this new reality. Therefore, our only way to intimidate China is now militarily. It seems that neoliberalism as an economic theory is really over - financialized economies are weak because they have no industry and cannot withstand shocks like a pandemic, nor can they be valuable allies as they have no natural resources or goods of their own to trade. Neoliberal and financialized countries like the UK and Canada are in real trouble because atleast we have a formidable military.

ColonelMuttonchops
Feb 18, 2011



Young Orc

mawarannahr posted:

this is the official bipartisan list from todays RESTRICT bill
(8) FOREIGN ADVERSARY.—The term"foreign adversary"
  1. means any foreign government or regime, determined by the Secretary, pursuant to sections 3 and 5, to have engaged in a longterm pattern or serious instances of conduct significantly adverse to the national security of the United States or the security and safety of United States persons; and
  2. includes, unless removed by the Secretary pursuant to section 6—
    1. the People’s Republic of China, including the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and Macao Special Administrative Region;
    2. the Republic of Cuba;
    3. the Islamic Republic of Iran;
    4. the Democratic People’s Republic
      of Korea;
    5. the Russian Federation; and
    6. the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela under the regime of Nicolas Maduro Moros.

Its great how cuba continues to be one of americas number one enemies despite them not doing anything.

Its also great how america still hasnt destroyed cuba after nearly a century, communism stays winning.

crepeface
Nov 5, 2004

r*p*f*c*

dk2m posted:

...:words:...

40 years of neoliberalism has not prepared any of our leaders, let alone everyday people, to contemplate this new reality. Therefore, our only way to intimidate China is now militarily. It seems that neoliberalism as an economic theory is really over - financialized economies are weak because they have no industry and cannot withstand shocks like a pandemic, nor can they be valuable allies as they have no natural resources or goods of their own to trade. Neoliberal and financialized countries like the UK and Canada are in real trouble because atleast we have a formidable military.

i think i've read this somewhere before. michae hudson?

also lol UK with a formidable military

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

supersnowman posted:

Let's see if you really protected the gun.

@Frosted Flake : What would happen to an artillery piece if you put a 1 inch deep cut in the barrel?

The gun was just a prop for me to hide my arm in

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Canada is still a resource exporting economy. We exist to feed whatever raw materials we have to US, or well whatever raw materials that US wants from us anyway.

BrotherJayne
Nov 28, 2019

Ardennes posted:

It isn't going well right off the gate then.

How do you mean? Seems like the blocs have mostly been solidified, and we're beginning to exert pressure on an opposition element

Insuring a breakdown of cooperation between said blocs seems like a pretty important part of the process for setting up another cold war

dk2m
May 6, 2009

crepeface posted:

i think i've read this somewhere before. michae hudson?

also lol UK with a formidable military

Yeah, Hudson has been saying things similar to this. While I don’t agree with everything he says, I believe he’s right about this point. There’s a few other post-Keysians, especially within the modern monetary theory offshoot, that are similarly critiquing neoliberalism along these grounds.

Dixon Chisholm
Jan 2, 2020

Al-Saqr posted:

the best planes by far are the A-10 warthogs

dk2m
May 6, 2009

Lostconfused posted:

Canada is still a resource exporting economy. We exist to feed whatever raw materials we have to US, or well whatever raw materials that US wants from us anyway.

Canada, for whatever reason, is determined that they want to find out how resilient they are.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64870472.amp

quote:

Speaking to reporters on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Monday, Mr Trudeau said the reports challenging Canada's "sovereignty" are alarming, and "strike us to our very core as Canadians".

"I will be appointing an independent special rapporteur, who will have a wide mandate and make expert recommendations on combating interference and strengthening our democracy," Mr Trudeau said.

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
Yeah the raw resource thing is weird because you have to convert that to finished goods via industrial processes.

BrotherJayne
Nov 28, 2019

Al-Saqr posted:

the best planes by far are the A-10 warthogs, by far americas coolest planes ever after the p-51 mustangs.

Yeah good loving luck being cooler than a p-40c in AVG colors

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005

Frosted Flake posted:

I wish they would just say we’re doing disinformation too, that’s why she visited Kingston instead of everyone I don’t work with nodding solemnly. What, you think she was visiting the signals school and the hallowed halls of the staff college?

It’s enough to make you feel crazy, you know.

“We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you will study too, because we will make it illegal to not study our newly created realities.”

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021
Most US planes used to look pretty until the F-35. Ugly and disgusting

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005

Tankbuster posted:

Most US planes used to look pretty until the F-35. Ugly and disgusting

and to think, of what could have been :allears:

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007

someone forgot to turn off the liberal newsbot

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

BrotherJayne posted:

Yeah good loving luck being cooler than a p-40c in AVG colors



WW2-era fighter planes are fundamentally cooler than the later jet planes because of their general shape and the way the pilot is situated in the center, giving them a sort of "balance."

Tankbuster
Oct 1, 2021

Delta-Wye posted:

and to think, of what could have been :allears:



Lmao, even american planes are Obese. Late era soviet/russian ones are big but still very well proportioned.

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
can we please not compare soviet and american jets because I think I speak for all of us when I say that the most aesthetically beautiful fighter jets ever made was either the Mig-29 or the Su-34 there's no competition.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010

Nap Ghost

Tankbuster posted:

Lmao, even american planes are Obese. Late era soviet/russian ones are big but still very well proportioned.



Ivan knows how to build them pretty.

Still take a Tomcat over any of the more modern junk.



I'm such a sucker for planes, man.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

As someone who grew up watching Robotech, F-14 will always be the coolest plane. A military one anyway.

Otherwise it's the Concorde.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply