[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed.
🦋	15	3.71%
🦇	115	28.47%
🪰	12	2.97%
🐦	67	16.58%
dragonfly	94	23.27%
🦟	14	3.47%
🐝	87	21.53%
Total:	404 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Tankbuster: Oct 1, 2021

the F-14 was the first toy plane I got as a kid. It even fired goofy missiles and the wings could be moved.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:20

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# ? May 26, 2024 19:36

Slavvy: Dec 11, 2012

Al-Saqr posted:

can we please not compare soviet and american jets because I think I speak for all of us when I say that the most aesthetically beautiful fighter jets ever made was either the Mig-29 or the Su-34 there's no competition.

100% correct, the flanker is the best looking jet fighter ever

You want art deco space age you've got the mig 17

You want chrome lawn dart you've got the mig 21

You want boxy industrial monstrosity you've got the mig 25

You want curvy fish aesthetic it's flanker and fulcrum all the way

Hell even their fifth gen fighter is the best looking one

I will grant the f14 is exceptionally good looking in a dieselpunk kind of way

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:28

nomad2020: Jan 30, 2007

Al-Saqr posted:

can we please not compare soviet and american jets because I think I speak for all of us when I say that the most aesthetically beautiful fighter jets ever made was either the Mig-29 or the Su-34 there's no competition.

I do like the cute little winglets on the su-30

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:32

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

bad news everyone

https://twitter.com/shokol8/status/1633337900648521729

looks like we need to add the yellow vests to the list of politically tainted movements who are only doing putins bidding

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:34

Stinky Wizzleteats: Nov 26, 2015; You must pay the price for this post.

f18 looked cool af didn't u little shut ins see the blue angels when u were kids

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:34

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

dk2m posted:

Canada, for whatever reason, is determined that they want to find out how resilient they are.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64870472.amp

he's gonna get another visit to principal xi's office for a disappointed lecture

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:40

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

dk2m posted:

When China was first admitted to the WTO in 2001, the ruling class thought that China would become like Japan - we would benefit from cheap labor and cheap goods, but just like the Plaza Accords has kept Japan in stagflation since the 90s after their exports became too competitive with our industry, we would eventually be able to influence a newly liberalized China into a similarly weak position.

Instead of the state weakening as free market forces flooded, they simply re-organized the relationship between capital and state. Capital was always subordinate to the state and nowhere is that more apparent in the fact that their central bank is state owned. This largely prevented a financialized economy from taking shape, which we in the west call a �service economy�. China has also deliberately has kept their billionaire class in check by periodically cracking down on them.

This has completely shocked the West, in which we are so used to a financial oligarchy being the #1 priority, especially after they got bailed out in 2008. The average Chinese therefore supports their government, and the dreams of neoliberals like Bill Clinton never materialized - there was never a moment where we had enough economic leverage over China to force them into a position like Japan in the 90s and Germany/EU now.

It�s not widely understood how the trade surplus affects this as well - Russia, for example, had a trade surplus with the US as they are an export nation due to their rich natural resources. Sanctions work because they prevent countries from obtaining US dollars to their central bank, which ultimately affects their currency and therefore their consumer spending. By seizing Russias foreign reserves, it was thought that it could completely cripple them for that reason. What has ended up happening is that we now are understanding that sanctions work on heavily financialized or debt burdened economies.

Because Russia has prepared for this day since the first sanction in 2008, they had collected vast gold storages and quickly moved to back any trade deficits with gold, preventing a shock. After it stabilized their currency, they went back to their regime of commodity exports and it has completely strengthened their currency. What this now shows is that we�ve entered an age where raw production, commodities, and goods are more valuable than foreign reserves.

This is a lesson we�re unprepared on how to deal with. For the first time, American economic might has not dealt a death blow - Venezuela, Iran, Cuba and North Korea all fell victim. We�ve now shown all the world our cards, and China can confidently project power because not only has the trade war sanctions backfired (Huawei exited the consumer market and has made huge shares in the industrial market), but our sanctions simply won�t work on a natural resource and goods/commodity based economy like China.

40 years of neoliberalism has not prepared any of our leaders, let alone everyday people, to contemplate this new reality. Therefore, our only way to intimidate China is now militarily. It seems that neoliberalism as an economic theory is really over - financialized economies are weak because they have no industry and cannot withstand shocks like a pandemic, nor can they be valuable allies as they have no natural resources or goods of their own to trade. Neoliberal and financialized countries like the UK and Canada are in real trouble because atleast we have a formidable military.

ty for this good post

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:49

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

dk2m posted:

When China was first admitted to the WTO in 2001, the ruling class thought that China would become like Japan - we would benefit from cheap labor and cheap goods, but just like the Plaza Accords has kept Japan in stagflation since the 90s after their exports became too competitive with our industry, we would eventually be able to influence a newly liberalized China into a similarly weak position.

Instead of the state weakening as free market forces flooded, they simply re-organized the relationship between capital and state. Capital was always subordinate to the state and nowhere is that more apparent in the fact that their central bank is state owned. This largely prevented a financialized economy from taking shape, which we in the west call a �service economy�. China has also deliberately has kept their billionaire class in check by periodically cracking down on them.

This has completely shocked the West, in which we are so used to a financial oligarchy being the #1 priority, especially after they got bailed out in 2008. The average Chinese therefore supports their government, and the dreams of neoliberals like Bill Clinton never materialized - there was never a moment where we had enough economic leverage over China to force them into a position like Japan in the 90s and Germany/EU now.

It�s not widely understood how the trade surplus affects this as well - Russia, for example, had a trade surplus with the US as they are an export nation due to their rich natural resources. Sanctions work because they prevent countries from obtaining US dollars to their central bank, which ultimately affects their currency and therefore their consumer spending. By seizing Russias foreign reserves, it was thought that it could completely cripple them for that reason. What has ended up happening is that we now are understanding that sanctions work on heavily financialized or debt burdened economies.

Because Russia has prepared for this day since the first sanction in 2008, they had collected vast gold storages and quickly moved to back any trade deficits with gold, preventing a shock. After it stabilized their currency, they went back to their regime of commodity exports and it has completely strengthened their currency. What this now shows is that we�ve entered an age where raw production, commodities, and goods are more valuable than foreign reserves.

This is a lesson we�re unprepared on how to deal with. For the first time, American economic might has not dealt a death blow - Venezuela, Iran, Cuba and North Korea all fell victim. We�ve now shown all the world our cards, and China can confidently project power because not only has the trade war sanctions backfired (Huawei exited the consumer market and has made huge shares in the industrial market), but our sanctions simply won�t work on a natural resource and goods/commodity based economy like China.

40 years of neoliberalism has not prepared any of our leaders, let alone everyday people, to contemplate this new reality. Therefore, our only way to intimidate China is now militarily. It seems that neoliberalism as an economic theory is really over - financialized economies are weak because they have no industry and cannot withstand shocks like a pandemic, nor can they be valuable allies as they have no natural resources or goods of their own to trade. Neoliberal and financialized countries like the UK and Canada are in real trouble because atleast we have a formidable military.

This is such an incredibly good and well thought out post. totally agree.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:55

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Delta-Wye posted:

and to think, of what could have been

I'm convinced this lost because of it's looks and that it would have been a better plane because it would have fit the LRASM.

Lostconfused posted:

Transnistria thing came and went, now it's Georgia. Lets see if Georgia will stick around in the news/rumor mill longer I guess.

Georgia is actually something happening it looks like, the Georgians making a small step towards independence.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:57

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Weka posted:

Georgia is actually something happening it looks like, the Georgians making a small step towards independence.

independence from who? you mean a break from russia (again) or the EU? Didnt they learn from the last time not to poke russia.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:58

Clip-On Fedora: Feb 20, 2011

Al-Saqr posted:

cant a humble bus driver just run a country in peace and cronch some empanadas without america getting up in his grill

The confederate's 200 year old dream of enslaving an entire continent must never be broken

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:00

Death By The Blues: Oct 30, 2011

Prigozhin says Wagner/Russia control everything east of the river in Bakhmut

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1633361044016881666

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:05

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Death By The Blues posted:

Prigozhin says Wagner/Russia control everything east of the river in Bakhmut

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1633361044016881666

ukraines genius plan of killing a million russians and making then run out bullets and only fighting with shovels to take a strategically insignificant city is working out great, lets see how they can build on that success

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:09

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Al-Saqr posted:

independence from who? you mean a break from russia (again) or the EU? Didnt they learn from the last time not to poke russia.

USAIDs

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:10

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

Lostconfused posted:

Transnistria thing came and went, now it's Georgia. Lets see if Georgia will stick around in the news/rumor mill longer I guess.

did anything end up happening after samantha power visited hungary?

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:13

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Weka posted:

USAIDs

yeah. i think people in general are starting to work out what a cancer western backed NGOs are and after Ukraine nobodys ever going to view western media as anything other than a state run propaganda rag ever again

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:14

Death By The Blues: Oct 30, 2011

and now he is making videos in front of the tank monument on the front lines

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1633366036811591682

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:25

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

if the Ukrainians want to escape that developing envelopment, they're going to have to move Bakhmut, and to the left

Bakhmut... and to the left...

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:31

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

dk2m posted:

This is a lesson we�re unprepared on how to deal with. For the first time, American economic might has not dealt a death blow - Venezuela, Iran, Cuba and North Korea all fell victim.

Good post but I'm not sure about this bit. American sanctions drove the population of all those countries into destitution but they haven't managed to beat them into submission and they remain a source of angst for American policy makers. I guess without the sanctions they could potentially have more power to resist American regional policy but it's hard to tell.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:32

Isentropy: Dec 12, 2010

Tankbuster posted:

the F-14 was the first toy plane I got as a kid. It even fired goofy missiles and the wings could be moved.

Best plane is the Mig turbo 25 or the holy SR-71

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:49

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Delta-Wye posted:

and to think, of what could have been

It reflects the mood of the nation.

One is an overweight piece of poo poo that can barely fly on a good day. The other is the Boeing X-32.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:54

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Lostconfused posted:

As someone who grew up watching Robotech, F-14 will always be the coolest plane. A military one anyway.

Otherwise it's the Concorde.

Facts. Fortunately the backfire bomber is the concorde successor (maybe? kind of?) and they still fly!

Your airframe isn't cool unless its at least 50 years old.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:56

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

Comrade Koba posted:

someone forgot to turn off the liberal newsbot

TBF hes making the opposite point to liberals; that the people who say Bakhmut is unimportant are grifting hacks, meanwhile Zelensky is contradicting them

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:58

dk2m: May 6, 2009

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

Good post but I'm not sure about this bit. American sanctions drove the population of all those countries into destitution but they haven't managed to beat them into submission and they remain a source of angst for American policy makers. I guess without the sanctions they could potentially have more power to resist American regional policy but it's hard to tell.

The goal of sanctions is to prevent their central and private banks from having any real way to obtain USD and it can be wide ranging, such as cutting them off international financial messaging systems like SWIFT or to banning private citizens from doing business with sanctioned entities.

Since the world economic system is run via the US dollar, and you literally cannot obtain it, you cannot grow your GDP outside of, by definition, criminal means. I've read speculation by some economists that the massive Bitcoin pump and dump in 2017 was North Korea and/or Iran finding a way to obtain USD in a very creative way.

In the most extreme case, such as when we seized Afghanistan's foreign reserves when the Taliban took over, it's caused half their population to enter starvation according to Human Rights Watch:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/08/04/economic-causes-afghanistans-humanitarian-crisis#_How_are_sanctions

Sanctions have knock on effects that go beyond simply banning entities or central banks from obtaining USD - secondary sanctions can sometimes hit, meaning that Afghanistan can't do business with India, because India could become sanctioned by the US as well. The effect is to totally isolate a country from not just the US, but even its regional partners. The consequences are devastating, but they are short of actual genocide. Instead, like in Afghanistan, it's starving them from the inside out.

Another example is Syria, where because of US sanctions, sending aid was exceedingly difficult after the earthquake as secondary sanctions could hit. Enough Arab countries defied the sanctions though that eventually we had to lift it temporarily.

You are right that it can sometimes backfire - sanctions can "force" a country to become self-sufficient because they have no choice. This is what happened to countries like North Korea who developed homegrown weapons and nuclear capabilities. However, doing this is insanely difficult - Iran has shortages of life saving medical equipment because they don't have the industry at home to do so.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:59

DancingShade: Jul 26, 2007; by Fluffdaddy

Bakhmut is unimportant except when its vital and strategic.

Flip a coin to determine which it is currently.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:59

Turtle Watch: Jul 30, 2010; by Games Forum

fizzy is a good multi-role vtol capable poster. Equally at home in the air,land, or sea they bring news to where it is needed most. Their news brings destruction to the guilty and justice to the innocent.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:09

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

If Ukraine and the International Community does not support support Bakhmut in its time of need, I fear in my heart that it will only be a matter of time before it is

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:19

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

supersnowman posted:

Let's see if you really protected the gun.

@Frosted Flake : What would happen to an artillery piece if you put a 1 inch deep cut in the barrel?

Those are impossible to fix, too, you know what they say:

Any gunsmith can repair the pewter, but the one inch cut in the gun lives forever

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:19

Turtle Watch: Jul 30, 2010; by Games Forum

Neurolimal posted:

If Ukraine and the International Community does not support support Bakhmut in its time of need, I fear in my heart that it will only be a matter of time before it is

I like how the author has the little tusks in the O in his name and the title. It is little touches like that which make a good cover stand out.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:24

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Neurolimal posted:

If Ukraine and the International Community does not support support Bakhmut in its time of need, I fear in my heart that it will only be a matter of time before it is

Lol they literally stole the Kratos Model and photoshopped it.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:39

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Oh no! germany will give ukraine twelve Leopards instead of ten! watch out china!

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1633387057727848449?s=20

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:44

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

gradenko_2000 posted:

Bakhmut... and to the left...

lol I said "oh gently caress you" out loud to this

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:46

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Frosted Flake posted:

A soldier will (correctly) reason that it is easier, more rewarding, and less dangerous to march on Washington than Beijing.

Doubt

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:47

Comrade Koba: Jul 2, 2007

Al-Saqr posted:

Oh no! germany will give ukraine twelve Leopards instead of ten! watch out china!

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1633387057727848449?s=20

the kubinka tank museum is going to run out of space

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:49

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

Al-Saqr posted:

Oh no! germany will give ukraine twelve Leopards instead of ten! watch out china!

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1633387057727848449?s=20

Aren't they defining "selling arms to Russia" as aid? Like oh if you make money on this war, we'll create even more demand for your products that'll show you

# ? Mar 8, 2023 09:52

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

gradenko_2000 posted:

if the Ukrainians want to escape that developing envelopment, they're going to have to move Bakhmut, and to the left

Bakhmut... and to the left...

Ukrainians only move to the right.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 10:01

Phigs: Jan 23, 2019

Zeroisanumber posted:

S'ok. Worth a read just so you can throw the fact that you actually read it into the face of people who quote it out of context.

It's a much better book if you don't know its context when you read it as a teenager and assume it must be talking about fascism.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 10:20

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Admittedly, Canada has natural resources that is something, that is about all it�s got but it useful at least. The UK is a different story and that their job is to hold down the North Sea as well as back the US in other theatres and it is looking more and more difficult for them. Likewise, Japan was suppose to be back up for containment in Asia but there re-militarization is only to have real limits as pretty much their society slowly implodes over the next 30 years. The issue with the American Empire at its heart it is suppose to be doing most of the heavy lifting and the worm has turned to the point it is getting more and more difficult to have that be a material reality on multiple fronts.

# ? Mar 8, 2023 10:22

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

DancingShade posted:

Bakhmut is unimportant except when its vital and strategic.

Flip a coin to determine which it is currently.

schr�dinger's strategic city

Al-Saqr posted:

Oh no! germany will give ukraine twelve Leopards instead of ten! watch out china!

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1633387057727848449?s=20

this is kinda adorable in a lil' toy dog trying real hard to intimidate a mastiff kinda way

# ? Mar 8, 2023 10:23

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# ? May 26, 2024 19:36

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

why am i not surprised that its the SPD who would be americas biggest bitch who couldve seen that happen the social democrats woild never be fascisms friend nooo waaayyyyy

# ? Mar 8, 2023 10:25

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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