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Just write a summary and some key excerpts. No one wants to read through that wall of text on this forum no matter what it is.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:29
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I'll put in a vote for walls of text. Bold the interesting excerpts.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:31
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Also, I'll need to ask people to stop posting 2814 word walls of text written by someone else to this thread. I'm still working on finalizing some rules changes for the thread, but posts like Why? it was a interesting and useful article. Actual journalists are usually much better at writing than your average SA wall of text poster.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:38
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Also, I'll need to ask people to stop posting 2814 word walls of text written by someone else to this thread. I'm still working on finalizing some rules changes for the thread, but posts like Strong disagree. I appreciate the "walls of text" and the effort posters put in. We can easily scroll past them. We don't need more rules. Please don't derail the thread.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:38
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A couple days ago I read on a french news site that Kadyrov has been poisoned and is seriously ill. Also that he no longer trusts russian doctors and has contracted doctors from the UAE. I haven't seen this anywhere else. Is this true?
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Mar 8, 2023 19:42
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it's true that a bunch of tabloids and literally no one else is printing that
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Mar 8, 2023 19:43
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ronya posted:I'll put in a vote for walls of text. Bold the interesting excerpts. You can then delete all the unbolded parts, tia!
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Mar 8, 2023 19:44
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Nenonen posted:You can then delete all the unbolded parts, tia! Or just leave the whole thing so the reader can decide what's interesting. The thread is going fine. Please let's not mess it up. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 8, 2023 19:45
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Moon Slayer posted:Same, I do it specifically because I usually can't be bothered to click through when others link articles. Obviously if it becomes a thread rule I'll stop. It will become a thread rule once I've had time to formulate it more thoroughly, and wrap up some discussion with my colleagues. The point of it being to hamper entrenchment of a habit such that you describe, which I was somewhat naive about until I set out on my news summaries misadventure. Not calling you individually out here now, it's just a handy rhetorical premise to expand upon this. Also, I don't think it's particularly good for SA to develop (again) a practice of sharing paid content for free. I respect everyone's right to choose what they want to pay for, but that is a problem with easy solutions that are much subtler than copying and pasting full-text articles.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:47
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RoyKeen posted:Or just leave the whole thing so the reader can decide what's interesting. The thread is going fine. Please let's not mess it up. What is this, a landfill of trash articles? That article was a waste of time.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:49
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I agree with the "maybe we shouldn't be so blatantly pirating paid articles" logic, not so much with the "too much text to scroll through" logic.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:50
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busalover posted:A couple days ago I read on a french news site that Kadyrov has been poisoned and is seriously ill. Also that he no longer trusts russian doctors and has contracted doctors from the UAE. I haven't seen this anywhere else. Is this true? During a recent stream by russian oppos, they chatted up a Chechen dissident/activist on this and his words were that in Chechnya it's well known that Kadyrov has intestinal issues since childhood and takes medication for it, the videos he posts where he looks bloated and high is from the medication he takes. UAE doctors part is probably true just because arabic countries have good relations with Kadyrov and good doctors. He's probably not doing great but the poisoning part is likely untrue
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Mar 8, 2023 19:51
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cinci zoo sniper posted:According to the Times, western intelligence agencies have known for months that the pipeline attack was a private Ukrainian venture with no affiliations with Zelenskyy's administration. This led to this sort of wink-wink-nod stuff: https://mobile.twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1633448341743738883 ... though it's hard to think of who would fit such description, though it's fun to speculate. Poroshenko, maybe? ...but he is way too familiar with diplomacy to do something this provocative, I would think. Also unsurprisingly German response is more restrained than the press: https://mobile.twitter.com/Reuters/status/1633453840283443202
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Mar 8, 2023 19:55
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I think the fundamental flaw of that foreign affairs article is that it assumes it is a deliberate strategy rather than the weakness of the Russian government: 1) Russian rhetoric and media is absolutely unhinged from reality and daily threatens the nuclear destruction of Washington/London/Berlin/Kiev. 2) The Russian government is incapable of executing those promises because it is corrupt, incompetent, and has a huge amount of institutional inertia/technical debt that means it doesn't even know where its mobilizable population is (i.e. draft notices getting sent to the wrong place, so they just sweep up a quota of randos) and can't exercise enough control over domestic industry to move to a war-time footing.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:55
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Kavros posted:I am starting to think back to the history of areas in modern day france which are still unoccupied due to catastrophic war damage/refuse and thinking about how much of ukraine will be similarly uninhabitable for lifetimes I think you're conflating a couple of things - while WW1 was horrifying, most bombed-to-poo poo areas got rebuilt pretty quickly. The countryside's depopulation is what caused some communities to disappear, not the material war damage. It's true that farmers, rangers and builders still find unexploded bombs from that era though. It's also one of the reasons why, while the Belgian armed forces aren't particularly impressive, they are very good at de-mining.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:57
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OddObserver posted:This led to this sort of wink-wink-nod stuff:  Probably left some candy wrappers at the crime scene
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Mar 8, 2023 20:04
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Antigravitas posted:I was under the impression that they were shooting basically from the edge of the envelope of the rockets, not like some artillery system. If they are doing beyond visual range, that's… kind of a waste of ammunition. Beyond visual range =/= without line of sight. They're firing over trees or hills, not way out the horizon. And yes, they do have a mode for this in the firing computer. I won't speak about how effective or accurate it is specifically, certainly less so than direct fire, but it does not endanger the helicopter if conducted correctly, and that's the entire point.
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Mar 8, 2023 20:10
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Thank god the thread is protected from long-form journalism so we can have boring conversations about helicopter tactics.cinci zoo sniper posted:It will become a thread rule once I've had time to formulate it more thoroughly, and wrap up some discussion with my colleagues. The point of it being to hamper entrenchment of a habit such that you describe, which I was somewhat naive about until I set out on my news summaries misadventure. Not calling you individually out here now, it's just a handy rhetorical premise to expand upon this. You loving clown. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 8, 2023 20:21
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Morrow posted:I think the fundamental flaw of that foreign affairs article is that it assumes it is a deliberate strategy rather than the weakness of the Russian government: Well it's not that they're incapable of nuking DC, they just correctly understand that it would be crazy and not at all beneficial to do that.
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Mar 8, 2023 20:22
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mobby_6kl posted:Well it's not that they're incapable of nuking DC, they just correctly understand that it would be crazy and not at all beneficial to do that. Also, why would they want to nuke their family members?
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Mar 8, 2023 20:24
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Pope Hilarius II posted:I think you're conflating a couple of things - while WW1 was horrifying, most bombed-to-poo poo areas got rebuilt pretty quickly. The countryside's depopulation is what caused some communities to disappear, not the material war damage. It's true that farmers, rangers and builders still find unexploded bombs from that era though. It's also one of the reasons why, while the Belgian armed forces aren't particularly impressive, they are very good at de-mining. Zone Rouge Wikipedia posted:The area is saturated with unexploded shells (including many gas shells), grenades, and rusty ammunition. Soils were heavily polluted by lead, mercury, chlorine, arsenic, various dangerous gases, acids, and human and animal remains.
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Mar 8, 2023 20:26
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Quixzlizx posted:I agree with the "maybe we shouldn't be so blatantly pirating paid articles" logic, not so much with the "too much text to scroll through" logic. Moon Slayer posted:Foreign Affairs has an interesting article about Russia's half measures despite talking tough. Whenever I get around to updating the thread rules, the bolded part will become more or less the baseline expectation for sharing external content. In other words, the pendulum will swing from the D&D rules guideline I.A.6.a being implicitly waived to being explicitly enforced in this thread. That also has consequences for the treatment of walls of text, though it's 95% likely that I will simply ban full-text quotes of paid content on top of this. In that case, there will be a “fair use” provision of our own to follow, but in the form of a few paragraphs most necessary to convey your point. Also, I'm going to slightly clarify expectations around posting YouTube videos, especially on the longer end of things. Finally, don't take this post as a rules change. I'm not trying to explain these things thoroughly right now, due to time constraints – just providing some context for what's going on with the thread, since our quarterly feedback thread is a bit behind schedule. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Mar 8, 2023 |
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Mar 8, 2023 20:28
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cinci zoo sniper posted:It's not entirely clear what the article is about, why Moon Slayer finds it fascinating, who in the thread should find it intriguing, and what any of that has to do with the current affairs of the war. In other words, this is a zero-effort copy-paste job of a giant text wall that takes at least 15 minutes to read, and is simply not a good post as such, or one I can recommend reproducing. Yeah, that's fair.
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Mar 8, 2023 20:38
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I'm more or less on the same page. If I am to give credence to these rumours – and they seem to be coming from a fair few presumably independent sources, if at a timing that may suggest some “cross-pollination” – then Poroshenko is the most plausible person here. Akhmetov would be the second option, but he's not even half as much of a poseur as Poroshenko is, and I would not at all be inclined to consider him having an unmistakeable “calling card”.
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Mar 8, 2023 20:39
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The Atlantic published a critique to U.S. lethal aid by an International Relations Professor that I vehemently disagree with but believe is worth sharing. It illustrates a real politik logic behind their opposition that's not just "Corruption!!1!"  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/russia-ukraine-war-pundits-history-international-relations/673293/ 1. NATO expanded since dissolution of USSR to include satellite states. This is threatening. quote:The controversial international-relations luminary John Mearsheimer overstates the case that there is “no evidence” of Russian imperial ambitions to gobble up Ukraine. But his work on “offensive realism” suggests that NATO enlargement eastward since the Iron Curtain fell has indeed been viewed by Russian leaders as inherently threatening, and played a significant role in the invasion. Counterpoint: NATO is a defensive alliance and no nuclear armed country's mainland has ever been attacked by a conventional army. Also, nobody is coerced to join NATO. Look at how much it takes to allow Sweden or Finland to join. 2. American alliance to neighboring countries presents a danger considering their history of intervention and desire to prop up governments opposed to the Kremlin quote:Add to these standard assumptions about world politics America’s particular history of foreign intervention, backing of democratic movements including in Ukraine, unrivaled conventional military power, and growing alliance with other anti-Russia countries east of the Iron Curtain, and it becomes harder to dismiss Russian claims of geopolitical apprehension. Counterpoint: Looking at Afghanistan and Vietnam, democracy does not succeed well without grassroots support. Ukraine clearly has those roots planted deep. The threat that a democratic government posses to the Kremlin by offering an example of how Russia itself could democratize is not a coordinated threat by a state actor. 3. European history of WWII is not relevant. quote:Commentators on the Ukraine war have been quick to invoke “the lesson of Munich,” referring to when the United Kingdom, at the September 1938 Munich Conference, permitted Nazi Germany to annex the Sudetenland, whetting Adolf Hitler’s territorial ambition... 4. U.S. support is about dissuading China from invading Taiwan quote:The stronger analogy with World War II may be in Asia, not Europe. Many historians believe that the U.S. dropped an atomic bomb on Nagasaki not only to coerce Japan to surrender but also to keep the Soviets out of Japan after the war by showcasing American military power. Similarly, an important goal for making Russia suffer in Ukraine may be to strike fear in China over the future costs of taking Taiwan. Counterpoint: Or maybe Western Europe wants to prevent genocide? There's a case that the reaction to this invasion is about its violation of human decency like Tim Snyder says. 5. Lethal aid provokes Russia to target civilian in retaliation quote:He found that states are significantly more likely to escalate against the population as they become more desperate from higher battlefield fatalities, longer war duration, or the transition of the conflict to a war of attrition.... Counterpoint: If the enemy is so poorly disciplined to commit mass violence against civilians in captured regions like Bucha early on, why should we believe that appeasing them will lessen their aggression to levels never before seen so far?
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Mar 8, 2023 20:50
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Comedy option: Mikhail Friedman trying to have EU sanctions against him lifted. I lied, it's not a comedy option, it's what some people genuinely believe!
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Mar 8, 2023 20:50
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RockWhisperer posted:Counterpoint: NATO is a defensive alliance and no nuclear armed country's mainland has ever been attacked by a conventional army. Also, nobody is coerced to join NATO. Look at how much it takes to allow Sweden or Finland to join. This statement is almost underselling it. The Eastern Europeans desperately wanted to join NATO to the point that they basically were threatening to campaign for Republicans in the 1996 election year, and which caused the US to work out a deal with Russia that involved giving them 4.5 billion USD. Why did these countries want to join so badly? Because they didn't want to be invaded by Russia. Which, as it turned out, was a very relevant fear.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:10
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Since I haven't seen it shared yet: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/us/politics/pentagon-war-crimes-hague.html first 3 paragraphs posted:WASHINGTON — The Pentagon is blocking the Biden administration from sharing evidence with the International Criminal Court in The Hague gathered by American intelligence agencies about Russian atrocities in Ukraine, according to current and former officials briefed on the matter.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:12
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Moon Slayer posted:Yeah, that's fair. Again, though, I would like to emphasize that this is entirely a coincidence that I'm dragging your post into the conversation – I was not sitting there in ambush waiting for you the Moon Slayer with all these posts pre-written. As far as my internal ratings of posters are concerned, you firmly remain to be at worst a decent one. In addition to that possible confusion, I also see some fresh goon lore that's only slightly less ridiculous than the time I got accused in this thread of being pro-Russian by someone thinking long and hard about it all: Enjoy posted:Thank god the thread is protected from long-form journalism so we can have boring conversations about helicopter tactics.  cinci zoo sniper posted:January 24-27 round-up All 22 of them combined elicited about 10 replies total. We will not be discussing here why that was so. While I was gone for a month from my duties, I spent some time reflecting on this, and one of the conclusions I had was that my moderation around tolerating giant Twitter walls and otherwise streamlining the news-to-posters pipeline may have had a negative impact on the level of nuance that individual stories may be treated to. The AI derail was an early warning sign, I guess, and after I stopped using Twitter due to Musk wrecking it, this became more structurally obvious to me, and summaries, fortunately or otherwise, ended up being the field study for this, without pretending that any one of them was well written (they weren't, except for the 1-2 where I dumped multiple hours into figuring tank reporting chronology out). Summarizing, I would like to improve the thread's collective interest and ability in using “slow news”/traditional journalism, partly as it can arm us with hindsight on what's happening “fast news”/social media in the heat of the moment. I cannot tell people to read something that they don't want to read – hey, I can make conclusions out of the summaries' episode for myself as well  – but I can pay attention to how stuff is presented itt. And that's the core theme for my moderation plans for the next quarter or two – to gradually raise the quality “floor” for presentation of material in the thread, so that people are more interested in sharing and consuming it.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:19
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Icon Of Sin posted:On the navy tables (designed for hyper-fit 18-26 year olds), safety stops don’t exist. Tue navy tables also allow for a 100ft per minute ascension rate (also an 80ft per minute descent rate!) Icon Of Sin posted:Pretty sure anything AT is going to look similar-ish. Until there’s a breakthrough, that is evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Mar 8, 2023 |
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Mar 8, 2023 21:23
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Charlotte Hornets posted:
It is a miniature HEAT round.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:45
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RockWhisperer posted:
Libya might be surprised to hear it's a defensive alliance. Thats just recent history! I wonder if Northern Cyprus or Crimea will be internationally recognized first. Maybe it can be a package deal.
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Mar 8, 2023 21:53
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adebisi lives posted:Libya might be surprised to hear it's a defensive alliance. Thats just recent history! I wonder if Northern Cyprus or Crimea will be internationally recognized first. Maybe it can be a package deal. Ah yes, the famous NATO-sanctioned Turkish invasion of Cyprus. Oh wait, all the NATO members actually condemned it? And no one recognizes Northern Cyrpus other than Turkey? But commies on Twitter said that literally everything bad in this world is the US's fault. I suppose if Russia devolves into civil war, and the UN representative of Russia asks for NATO to get involved, along with all of Russia's neighbors, with universal security council support, maybe that Libya example will work. Except you don't need to be told that if a nuclear-armed country devolves into civil war, military powers are going to intervene lol. MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Mar 8, 2023 |
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Mar 8, 2023 22:07
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evil_bunnY posted:Absolutely loving not It was a throwaway line in my old PADI deep diver manual, probably in reference to a quote attributed to CDR Doug Fane from the 1950's about what he wanted his divers to do. He was a proto-SEAL and did end up getting bent, for whatever that's worth Supposedly 60ft/min was the compromise USN came up with in the 1970's between free-swimming divers and commerical/hard-hat divers*. I only remember it because it was hilariously out of line with what every other agency said before or since.Maybe they got tired of people getting bent, but I looked up their newer tables and they've since changed. The real fight will be arguing with the VA after they leave the navy, though. *Source: https://blog.padi.com/history-of-th...der%20audience.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:08
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MegaZeroX posted:Since I haven't seen it shared yet: quote:But Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, who helped push Congress to ease the restrictions last year on aiding the International Criminal Court, confirmed the parameters of the dispute and blamed the Defense Department for its reluctance. Huh. I wouldn't have figure Graham, or any Republican, really, to be pro ICC.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:13
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Okay if people can't post the article in the post as a quote then are we still allowed to post archived versions of paywalled articles? Because restricting good discussion behind a paywall is dumb in the age of the internet. And given that this is D&D where we are expected to back up our claims with citations, we will need a way to actually do that unless it's expected that everyone posting here pay for a subscription to whatever news service. Many people have said here they don't tend to click-through to other links. It just makes sense to be able to cite your source in the post you make using that source without expecting someone to link-out of the app or browser to another site, especially in the Debate forum.
HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Mar 8, 2023 |
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Mar 8, 2023 22:27
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HonorableTB posted:Okay if people can't post the article in the post as a quote then are we still allowed to post archived versions of paywalled articles? Because restricting good discussion behind a paywall is dumb in the age of the internet. And given that this is D&D where we are expected to back up our claims with citations, we will need a way to actually do that unless it's expected that everyone posting here pay for a subscription to whatever news service. Many people have said here they don't tend to click-through to other links. It just makes sense to be able to cite your source in the post you make using that source without expecting someone to link-out of the app or browser to another site, especially in the Debate forum. The rules have not changed as yet. That's a big enough change that I'll be properly signalling it, updating the OP, and then taking my time with making sure that people are up to speed with the new rules before we actually get to any enforcement considerations. A process that I see taking weeks, if not months, rather than just days. However, just to give clarity to your concerns, the plan going forward most likely will be along the following lines: 1) Links to paywalled articles, or their public archive copies – allowed, the only change being required to provide a more comprehensive description for the link you've posted than you have been thus far (i.e., no requirement). 2) Full text of paywalled articles – disallowed regardless of whether if you've copied it from the article itself, or from an archive copy of it. 3) Part(s) of a paywalled article that you deem fairly necessary to support your description of the content – allowed.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:42
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adebisi lives posted:Libya might be surprised to hear it's a defensive alliance. Thats just recent history! I wonder if Northern Cyprus or Crimea will be internationally recognized first. Maybe it can be a package deal. What, no mention of Kosovo? You're slipping comrade. RockWhisperer posted:The Atlantic published a critique to U.S. lethal aid by an International Relations Professor that I vehemently disagree with but believe is worth sharing. It illustrates a real politik logic behind their opposition that's not just "Corruption!!1!" Realism in politics died with the Soviet Union. These old coots just haven't gotten the memo. Here's a recent video by Kraut on the subject; it's really loving long but worth it, imo. https://youtu.be/XXmwyyKcBLk
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Mar 8, 2023 22:54
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Not to try to distract, but I felt people were specifically curating parts of articles that helped me understand the content without dealing with paywall hassles. Plus your own massive threads of news updates were always pretty helpful even though you did tiny summaries per article, Cinci. I'm not saying I can speak for the thread or moderation but I would personally rather read when people link to an archive and snip what's valuable, rather than try to summarize a paywall blocked site as context could be missing.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:55
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There is definitely going to be the issue cropping up of selective editing to present things out of context or intentionally misconstrued as mr anus just said. There will not be any way of really verifying or fact checking that unless posters go out of their way to find a non-paywalled version and read it, and by the time they've done that and posted, the thread's moved on. Anyways last I will say about it to not continue the derail
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Mar 8, 2023 23:15
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