|
there's a website i could direct you to that breaks down electronic music genres very definitively
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 07:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 01:21 |
|
|
Music genres are so utterly confusing and granular to me that I don't even bother trying to understand at this point. The topic of 'sludge metal' came up over in PSP several months back and my eyes just started to roll back in my head when someone tried to explain it to me. Video game genre names are all mostly pretty bad too, if we're being honest. 'Fighting game' is the absolute worst of them all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 08:50
|
|
|
I went to see a grindcore show with a friend and she kept calling it screamo and so I adjusted my fedora and
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 08:55
|
|
|
credburn posted:I went to see a grindcore show with a friend and she kept calling it screamo and so I adjusted my fedora and I'm screaming right now.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 09:01
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Music genres are so utterly confusing and granular to me that I don't even bother trying to understand at this point. The topic of 'sludge metal' came up over in PSP several months back and my eyes just started to roll back in my head when someone tried to explain it to me. Adventure game is the worst for me for similar reasons.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 09:55
|
|
|
Nuebot posted:So is The Witcher a JRPG? No, it's an animated GRIF.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 10:01
|
|
|
I feel like most people can innately grok what a fighting game is. It gets silly and increasingly more arbitrary if you extrapolate too hard, but as far as genres go I don't think it's that bad. "Adventure" on the other hand is downright hilarious because it actually means half a dozen different things, many of which themselves split into sub-genres, and is capped off by a game literally just called Adventure existing. V See, I'd disagree as much as that the intent behind games in the genre is to provide a more immersive experience through simulating things more complex than a standard action game or whatever. It's still a clunky label, but it's at least borne from something. Though I guess the real question is if the term has simply run its course. Differentiating Ultima Underworld from Doom was one thing, but nowadays just about every other game has reactive story beats, RPG mechanics, stealth, etc. V John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 10:12 on Mar 8, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 10:05
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Video game genre names are all mostly pretty bad too, if we're being honest. 'Fighting game' is the absolute worst of them all.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 10:05
|
|
|
BrainDance posted:very short range UHF 90s/2000s tv station to a CRT project. Can you explain more about this? Because this sounds awesome!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 10:37
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Ain't nothing casual about that racism. When you start calling dudes "Chinamen" in the 21st century, that's professional racism. Ranked, competitive racism. Actually that's just politics. All the old treatment of Japanese games feels like it's got heavy undercurrents of very old-school racism, like the need to reclaim popularity and acclaim within the medium from foreign influence and to assign it to the right kind of people. And it's definitely pushed by people who just want an edge over what they see as their competition. Going all inquisition over the games press being hella racist is probably more productive and more fun than quibbling over genre.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 10:46
|
|
|
Yeah I don't think we need much more than there is a well documented group of people from Japan being made unconfortable by something being defined specifically by the "Japanese" moniker to stop using the term. I also agree that acting like there isn't a somewhat widespread set of characteristic that most people referr to when they say a game is a "JRPG" is a bit weird, although we shouldn't use that name for the wider "category". I guess it would't be unfair to group these games in the same bracket, even if most of them share only partial similarities: - Fallout and Divinity: Original Sin are both CRPGs. - Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro are all Souls-like. - Binding of Isaac and Dead Cells are both Rogue-lites. - Stalker and Kingdom Come: Deliverance are both Eurojank. All of them fall under the large "RPG" umbrella in a way or another. These games often share only a few mechanics between them (or they are tied together by the cultural sensibilities behind their design only, in the last case), it's also partially subjective and a game can fall under multiple categories (so Dead Cells has been defined as having "a Souls-like combat" even if it is a somewhat fast paced 2d side scrolling platformer). But along the same lines, I would say there is a common bracket for games like FFn, Undertale and Pokemon (which the Jimquisition video linked above mention as an example of the way the JRPG tag is used to otherize and exoticize certain games, while putting other in the "normal" or "default" game category - simply because of the exposure western audiences have had to it). Just don't use "JRPG" if you know it's a loaded term. That Italian Guy has a new favorite as of 11:39 on Mar 8, 2023 |
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 10:51
|
|
|
"Western RPG" is used basically to specifically say it didn't come from Japan.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 11:08
|
|
|
credburn posted:"Western RPG" is used basically to specifically say it didn't come from Japan. Oh boy, that's some classic olde timey racism. Here in Australia it's not uncommon to find antique furniture with this stamp on it somewhere:  They verified that the furniture was made with "European labour only" so people would know it wasn't made by Chinese immigrant labour. https://blogs.slv.vic.gov.au/such-was-life/european-labour-stamps-on-australian-furniture/ E: does furniture count as media that didn't age well?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 11:18
|
|
|
Randalor posted:Japanese developers have asked if we can just stop using the term because they feel it's derogatory I don't know why this discussion continued past this post.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 12:17
|
|
|
Snowglobe of Doom posted:Oh boy, that's some classic olde timey racism. Here in Australia it's not uncommon to find antique furniture with this stamp on it somewhere: Wow, haven't seen those since I was in school in the 70s and 80s. All our chairs and desks had those underneath.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 12:20
|
|
|
credburn posted:"Western RPG" is used basically to specifically say it didn't come from Japan. It's really not though, it's a different type of game, there are so many jrpgs that aren't Japanese. Even if we don't call it Western RPG and JRPG we still got two really different types of RPGs we gotta call something. Whether we come up with new names for them or whatever we still should distinguish between them. Western RPGs, so like Skyrim, you play a character basically you create. More like making a DnD character or something. That's probably the biggest, necessary thing (and why the Witcher is not a Western RPG as in a game in the genre "Western RPG", just an RPG made in the west.) Usually more of a focus on dungeon crawling and less on story. May be turn based, but not necessarily. Like all the TES games, Ultima, Swords and Serpents for the NES. JRPG, you play the role of a character the game's story establishes, not some blank slate. Turn based, more story driven. Obviously Dragon Quest, and like mentioned before the South Park rpgs. They're bad names but they're still different kinds of games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 12:27
|
|
|
Barry Foster posted:Can you explain more about this? Because this sounds awesome! Yeah sure. So I destress with nostalgia. I think that's how it is for most people. I got this room I do all my projects in and I just relax in, and a part of that's been to make just a bunch of nostalgia stuff. I got two related projects here. One is, I'm building the "best" computer that can run Windows 98se without any of the hardware being wasted because it doesn't have driver support or something. That ends up being one of the core2duos and an Asus motherboard that was made way too late for it to be useful for anything. A kinda dream computer for 98. The computer is going to get online through a switch, so like dialing up (this is mostly because it's stupid to just put 98SE on your network.) It will then connect to the Internet through a very strict firewall when I let it on a raspberry pi. But the raspberry pi will also be a proxy and, when I go to any webpage it'll give me the archive.org version for a specific year. Then I got a normal crt tv. For that the raspberry pi is also basically this https://github.com/ssshake/pi-uhf-tv-station I decided to go this way instead of just hooking the pi up to the tv directly because it's a fun project but also because the crappy UHF signal is a part of the authenticity of it all. The TV station is gonna be playing a huge archive I've built up of 90s and early 2000s tv. A whole lot of rips from live broadcasts with commercials and everything. Also a MiSTer for games on the crt. I'm also getting a bean bag chair.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 12:34
|
|
|
Speaking as someone who combs archive.org for old VHS recordings of late 90s/early 00s Adult Swim blocks, all I can say is that I'm profoundly jealous and wish I could tune in as well 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 12:56
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Music genres are so utterly confusing and granular to me that I don't even bother trying to understand at this point. The topic of 'sludge metal' came up over in PSP several months back and my eyes just started to roll back in my head when someone tried to explain it to me. I went to a sludge metal show and from my sample size of one i think its metal where i can understand the words sometimes
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 13:24
|
|
|
This argument is being apt seeing as the switch thread keeps breaking down to 10+ page derails of if Metroid Prime is an FPS or not. Been interesting to see people's ideas though. For myself a JRPG had to be turned based. I don't know why I have that hard rule in my head, but it's there , many of you don't have that. If you look at other genres though, they all kinda suck. Metroidvania SoulsLike RogueLike FPS Immersive sim MOBA Many started as quite defined and have become incredibly vague over time and kinda useless. Mega Comrade has a new favorite as of 14:32 on Mar 8, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 14:30
|
|
|
Just call them Anime RPGs. Does it feel like Anime? Then it's an Anime RPG. The 2nd and 3rd Mass Effects are very Anime, but the 1st isn't.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 14:31
|
|
|
A JRPG is any game that uses this font: 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 14:39
|
|
|
I am literally the only person who liked the shooting in the first Mass Effect game the most. 2 and 3 we're actually competent and fast cover shooters. But that's not what I want in an RPG I want to barely/not have to aim at all and to have infinite ammo and to always win while I throw lead down range and spam my powers. Then I get to see my numbers get bigger and I get a lot of plot and dialogue and cutscenes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 14:39
|
|
|
Doctor Spaceman posted:Immersive sim is the one I hate. They aren't really sims and they aren't any more (or less) immersive than other games. That's why you should call them [0]451 games.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 15:18
|
|
|
Vandar posted:Music genres are so utterly confusing and granular to me that I don't even bother trying to understand at this point. The topic of 'sludge metal' came up over in PSP several months back and my eyes just started to roll back in my head when someone tried to explain it to me. I understand, its extremely hard to understand the concept of "metal thats played slow instead of fast"
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 15:37
|
|
|
Alaois posted:I understand, its extremely hard to understand the concept of "metal thats played slow instead of fast" Sludge is quite often played mid-tempo or higher! It has a definition but it’s probably the genre that gets most broadly applied to things that are more like “miscellaneous” than any other main metal genre.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 15:40
|
|
|
Sludge/stoner/doom metal all just represent how you feel after taking too strong of an edible
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 15:51
|
|
|
Aramek posted:I am literally the only person who liked the shooting in the first Mass Effect game the most. Naw, you're not alone. Bare minimum I'd take ME1 over 2 any day.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:14
|
|
|
Randalor posted:So which of the following are not JRPGs to you: Etrian Odyssey, Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Paper Mario, Star Ocean, Pokemon, Atelier Sophie. The problem with this sort of essentialism is that a work of art's relation to previous art and artistic tradition/discourse is more important to its genre classification than any individual characteristic. To give an example from another mediun: a band being metal is not defined by power chords or guitar solos or whatever, it comes from a band participating in one of the extant metal discourses and being recognized as doing so by other people within the discourse. Undertale is not a JRPG just because it has menu based combat and a certain art style but because it exists in a cultural discourse that includes Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Breath of Fire, etc. and something like Pillars of Eternity or Mass Effect does not. But I expect something like that is beyond the capacity of goons to understand so let's just continue arguing over mechanical blood quanta for 50 pages. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:23
|
|
|
BrainDance posted:It's an arpg. But, yeah, game genres are categories like electronic music genres where something can be many at once and the boundaries between genres are nitpicky and controversial. But I don't think an arpg can be a jrpg because jrpgs are turn based. Why are jrpgs the only genre with a country in the name  LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:I don't know how specifically offensive the term "jrpg" is but I'm plenty tired of the Whacky Japan meme mindset
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:35
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:I don't know why this discussion continued past this post. TBH I don't think it's the same discussion. Most of us seem to be in agreement that it's a problematic term, then it just became a discussion about different types of RPGs and what might be better terms to use instead.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:37
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:Why are jrpgs the only genre with a country in the name Well in movies you have spaghetti (Italy) westerns as well, but that really does seem to be a very specifically distinct genre at least visually. I did see someone suggest that superhero movies should just be called Hamburger Shonens
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:39
|
|
|
Woolie Wool posted:The problem with this sort of essentialism is that a work of art's relation to previous art and artistic tradition/discourse is more important to its genre classification than any individual characteristic. To give an example from another mediun: a band being metal is not defined by power chords or guitar solos or whatever, it comes from a band participating in one of the extant metal discourses and being recognized as doing so by other people within the discourse. Undertale is not a JRPG just because it has menu based combat and a certain art style but because it exists in a cultural discourse that includes Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Breath of Fire, etc. and something like Pillars of Eternity or Mass Effect does not. Or, y'know, we could just stop using the term that Japanese developers have asked us to stop using because it's basically a derogatory term, that no one can actually quantify (which is kind of the whole point of using terms like "Action-RPG"). Saying "I can't describe it, but I know one when I see one" is... actually, I'm pretty sure that's literally been said to justify racist stuff in the past. Edit: The whole diversion in the conversation started from people insisting we NEEDED the term JRPG, but can't actually say what that term means. Randalor has a new favorite as of 21:45 on Mar 8, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:43
|
|
|
christmas boots posted:TBH I don't think it's the same discussion. Most of us seem to be in agreement that it's a problematic term, then it just became a discussion about different types of RPGs and what might be better terms to use instead. Yes? I never disagreed that we should find other terms to use.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:45
|
|
|
Also J Horror.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:47
|
|
|
Narrative RPG. Story-driven RPG. OPAONI suggested Anime RPG. Plenty of terms that we can use.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:48
|
|
|
RenegadeStyle1 posted:Also J Horror. J horror tends to focus mostly on the kind of monsters that are central to Japanese Culture to be fair, most of the ghosts in those kinds of movies are Yokai to some degree. As it is entrenched in their mythology and culture, it feels more like a real descriptor.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:49
|
|
|
“Produced in part by square enix” covers off most of the genre tbh.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:53
|
|
|
Randalor posted:Narrative RPG. Story-driven RPG. OPAONI suggested Anime RPG. Plenty of terms that we can use. The first two are too vague for my liking, what's a "non-story" driven RPG? Maybe Linear Narrative RPG? Anime RPG doesn't seem functionally any different than JRPG except now you're just using anime as shorthand for Japan.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 01:21 |
|
|
christmas boots posted:Well in movies you have spaghetti (Italy) westerns as well, but that really does seem to be a very specifically distinct genre at least visually. There's also a distinct style of "US Power Metal" even though it largely died out around 1990 and most power metal bands in the US today play the "European" style, which has recognizable German, Italian, and Finnish substyles.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2023 21:54
|
|