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I guess I've never built a city with more than a dozen shops.
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Mar 8, 2023 02:11
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The DOs seem intended to be associated with a small cluster of shops rather than one-per-city. But I do generally agree that they're currently an annoying amount of clicking to configure fairly obvious behavior and maybe it might be better to have something like a 'local distribution office' or whatever that works more like the water trucks and a 'regional distribution office' that works exactly the same as they currently do that you can use for the next step up in your logistics chains. But it's OK now, just... slightly frustrating sometimes.
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Mar 8, 2023 02:17
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It's a later game thing for sure, but even for smaller cities it would be nice to just... automate that. Also it isn't just shops, it's also hotels, if you're building a tourist destination that greatly increases the number of facilities you need to build that require supply. Also things like prisons, orphanages etc, it all adds up.
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Mar 8, 2023 02:17
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DOs are admittedly a HUGE improvement over how it had to be done before them: individually configuring specific truck routes! That poo poo made me want to jump out a window.
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Mar 8, 2023 02:20
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OwlFancier posted:Also things like prisons, orphanages etc, it all adds up. Oh sure if you feed your prisoners and orphans.
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Mar 8, 2023 02:22
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hailthefish posted:DOs are admittedly a HUGE improvement over how it had to be done before them: individually configuring specific truck routes! That poo poo made me want to jump out a window. Oh yeah absolutely, but I would also say that given how incredibly complex the game is from a logistics perspective it's extra important to simplify the actual implementation wherever possible. The game would be unplayable with DOs and as they add more systems I'm increasingly finding that I'm needing to spread my attention thinner, so I'm finding myself having greater need for things to reduce the mental workload of previous systems.
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Mar 8, 2023 02:35
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I build lots of DOs and set them up once and try not to touch them again.
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Mar 8, 2023 02:36
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Yeah I can’t break out of turning on every feature because I want it all… but the game is really stretching and I hope we don’t really get anything brand new beyond garbage. It already feels like there’s too many things sometimes and especially like, water and sewage are really sort of weird - really pretty binary. Once you aren’t hard pressed for resources/cash they’re just another tick box you can sometimes gently caress up or forget. Garbage feels like it’s going to maybe do a few interesting things, but I’m not super sold on it. What I’d like to see a focus on is more small improvements and polish, now. (No not Polish, there’s plenty of that.) things like letting me add sidewalks and lights to a road without having to shut down the road. Same thing with electric catenaries on train tracks. Give me a few more options for heating. Add in some new traffic tools - if only just a few (roundabouts that work, single lane one ways, and OK merging.) Research could add some neat angles, but I hope it doesn’t just become more like gating current content rather than kind of a system to sustain. Fix and tweak so many of the loving weird numbers so I can build a water and heat system that isn’t completely and constantly over engineered with large pipes to every single spot. Fix electric consumption numbers so my city substation doesn’t show a potential electricity estimate of 10MW when it only ever uses sub 1MW. (I know a lot of these numbers are technically correct but they’re representing something else.) just a pass to fix up all those presentations would be so helpful. I hope we get that. I haven’t seen a roadmap in awhile but I vaguely remember garbage being toward the end of “new systems” type patches.
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Mar 8, 2023 03:40
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Honestly, I'm fine with the concept of regional distribution offices for your factories. Direct delivery is a bourgeois extravagance; the regional shipping center knows best how to allocate the goods from your factory!quote:letting me add sidewalks and lights to a road without having to shut down the road Just allow an entire connected graph of roads up to a certain length to just be considered one construction target please oh god 
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Mar 8, 2023 07:37
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Volmarias posted:Honestly, I'm fine with the concept of regional distribution offices for your factories. Direct delivery is a bourgeois extravagance; the regional shipping center knows best how to allocate the goods from your factory! This is based on nothing but speculation but considering how punishing the weird “node road” thing is and even after they improved it it’s still really hard to manipulate how you’d like, I’d bet money that under the hood it’s an absolute nightmare to touch almost anything to do with that. It must be super fundamental and affecting too many layers above it.
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Mar 8, 2023 07:43
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I wish/hope someone implements light rail goods transport which I think used to be a thing before cars.
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Mar 8, 2023 13:02
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Anime Store Adventure posted:This is based on nothing but speculation but considering how punishing the weird “node road” thing is and even after they improved it it’s still really hard to manipulate how you’d like, I’d bet money that under the hood it’s an absolute nightmare to touch almost anything to do with that. It must be super fundamental and affecting too many layers above it.
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Mar 8, 2023 14:23
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double nine posted:I wish/hope someone implements light rail goods transport which I think used to be a thing before cars. Just let me do street running with trains. All of the ingredients are already there; there's a tram-to-rail connection in the base game, but only trams will use it. Regular trains can't path over streets, so they won't. Just change that. Let me run a local freight down the street to the warehouse feeding the department store.
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Mar 8, 2023 14:28
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I know they used to do street running in like, the 1800s but I thought they stopped doing it because people kept getting run the gently caress over. E: no apparently the US still has shitloads of them lmao. Too used to the UK where trains have to be physically enclosed by fences and have been that way for over a century.  look at this poo poo, fuckin freight train on the wrong side of the road OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Mar 8, 2023 |
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Mar 8, 2023 15:09
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You can literally just go on youtube and stare at a livestream until a train runs down the street: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiY0SeyfGw It kicks rear end. (And yes, it frequently ends exactly the way you expect. you can go on that channel and find tons of clips of idiots thinking they can beat the train or that they have right-of-way. Railroads will stop street running anywhere they can get away with it, but there's a few places in the US remaining where it's still done for various reasons.)
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Mar 8, 2023 15:18
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OwlFancier posted:I know they used to do street running in like, the 1800s but I thought they stopped doing it because people kept getting run the gently caress over. This poo poo helped kick off strikes and mass demonstrations in upstate New York because of how many peope kept getting run over by trains. I've seen railroads still built down main streets and through parks in towns in the Hudson Valley.
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Mar 8, 2023 15:53
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Railroads through parks is good because then you can go to the park and watch trains. I'm assuming it is 5 ft from the playground because it's the US though.
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Mar 8, 2023 16:00
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OwlFancier posted:I know they used to do street running in like, the 1800s but I thought they stopped doing it because people kept getting run the gently caress over. Up until a year or two ago when they redid the tracks, Michigan City, IN still had street running passenger rail straight through a large section of town. I don't think freight ever ran on it, but I definitely had to pull over a few times for a passing train.
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Mar 8, 2023 16:03
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zedprime posted:Railroads through parks is good because then you can go to the park and watch trains. It also goes through the crosswalks 
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Mar 8, 2023 16:24
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OwlFancier posted:I know they used to do street running in like, the 1800s but I thought they stopped doing it because people kept getting run the gently caress over. You can even see them in film, sometimes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdfoifeXHeY
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Mar 8, 2023 17:15
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OwlFancier posted:I know they used to do street running in like, the 1800s but I thought they stopped doing it because people kept getting run the gently caress over. lol my guy, my dude, my man. US train infrastructure is the last loving place you want to EVER try to invoke concepts of safety and common sense. Anyway I haven't played since the cop patch, what'd I miss?
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Mar 8, 2023 18:45
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Asproigerosis posted:lol my guy, my dude, my man. Water and sewage, some new roads and rails (metros, trams on road.) A host of other smaller changes, some QOL, others just visual or otherwise.
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Mar 8, 2023 18:51
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Water and sewage is cool when you are doing cosmo mode as the amount of concrete and stuff is not trivial and takes forever. If you are just clicking to build things I don’t know if it’s important.
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Mar 8, 2023 18:56
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euphronius posted:Water and sewage is cool when you are doing cosmo mode as the amount of concrete and stuff is not trivial and takes forever. If you are just clicking to build things I don’t know if it’s important. It's definitely my least favorite mechanic because it doesn't have a lot of engaging depth but just takes extra time.
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Mar 8, 2023 18:58
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Anime Store Adventure posted:It's definitely my least favorite mechanic because it doesn't have a lot of engaging depth but just takes extra time. I don't play with it on because it just seems like a pain in the rear end. There are a few places where I think it'd be cool, mostly supplying industries that require lots of water for some reason, but water service in towns just seems like a huge pain. Do underground waterpipes block other underground utilities? I seem to remember that being how it worked, but I haven't checked recently.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:00
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Log082 posted:I don't play with it on because it just seems like a pain in the rear end. There are a few places where I think it'd be cool, mostly supplying industries that require lots of water for some reason, but water service in towns just seems like a huge pain. They technically do, but its very easy to cheat this and clip them through each other. I do love the look of burying all my possible infrastructure and keeping it as orderly as possible. 
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Mar 8, 2023 19:08
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The water and sewage ones are on gradients so you can run stuff above them in places iirc.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:09
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Anime Store Adventure posted:They technically do, but its very easy to cheat this and clip them through each other. That looks so much nicer than anything I've ever done with underground infrastructure, which come to think of it might be why I hate it so much. I'll have to try to be a bit more careful next time I mess around with heating pipes or whatever.
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Mar 8, 2023 19:14
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Log082 posted:That looks so much nicer than anything I've ever done with underground infrastructure, which come to think of it might be why I hate it so much. I'll have to try to be a bit more careful next time I mess around with heating pipes or whatever. It was a pretty simple philosophy to lay out all of those. This was the sort of mental list I went through to lay stuff out: -Stick mostly to under roads. All the substations/pumps/etc are going to be near them. (Exception was heating lines that I would have needed an extra pump had I followed the road.) -Keep everything as straight as possible and use the snap-align tool until the last possible moment when pipes would break off to a building of some kind. -Never cross (the same type of) pipes. Split off of the sides of the bus first so you don't have to cross over anything. -Everything goes in 'one' direction. Even if it goes somewhere and fans out in two directions, never back track for any reason. Honestly I did it mostly because it looked nice, but its also been super helpful in checking the network and understanding what, if anything, might need to change or be reinforced with more heat/water/etc. Doing spaghetti underground before has made it a whole lot worse to figure out "Wait, why the gently caress are these buildings overflowing with sewage?" e: It is also important to always keep sewer under the road because the manhole covers look ok under the road, but almost always look like poo poo under huge long grass areas. (If you ever zoom in enough to notice them.) Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Mar 8, 2023 |
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Mar 8, 2023 19:21
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Water and sewage, some new roads and rails (metros, trams on road.) A host of other smaller changes, some QOL, others just visual or otherwise. You are now able to build the middle segments of utilities even if they are not an endpoint, e.g. moving a single power line pole over slightly doesn't require cheating or tearing half of the thing down.
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Mar 8, 2023 20:46
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Also I found out you can use q and e to raise/lower underground utilities, like you can with bridges. This is explained exactly nowhere. So you can absolutely have stuff criss-cross underground. Also works with tunnels! Anyway, I'm usually not playing with water because it is really just a tax on services to get a new city up and running. If you could irrigate your farms to increase yield it might make sense, but as it stands it's just one more thing after you already set up electricity and heat and food and basic consumer goods. It sounds like garbage might have more of an impact, like using organic waste to fertilize your fields. Maybe that will open the way towards having artificial fertilizer.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:11
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ArchangeI posted:Also I found out you can use q and e to raise/lower underground utilities, like you can with bridges. This is explained exactly nowhere. So you can absolutely have stuff criss-cross underground. Garbage looks fun because it ties into industry, with recycling etc, not just another "Build a building connected to smaller service buildings but this time it's water type instead of fire type" thing. Also I did not know that about utilities, drat it, and I feel like I should have because q and e is used for roads and such above ground.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:24
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by far my biggest frustration with sewage/water is the slope requirement. Everything else could be managed otherwise, but the slope just isn't a fun challenge when in difficult terrain
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Mar 8, 2023 23:34
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double nine posted:by far my biggest frustration with sewage/water is the slope requirement. Everything else could be managed otherwise, but the slope just isn't a fun challenge when in difficult terrain It would be interesting if it weren't so hard to see what the problem even is.
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Mar 9, 2023 00:15
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PerniciousKnid posted:It would be interesting if it weren't so hard to see what the problem even is. Love to get “bad slope” when I’m building a sewer line on perfectly leveled ground because I did some order of operations wrong.
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Mar 9, 2023 00:25
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Love to get “bad slope” when I’m building a sewer line on perfectly leveled ground because I did some order of operations wrong. That said, how else do you ensure that poo poo always flows downhill?
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Mar 9, 2023 00:37
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I remember last time I played I couldn't figure out how to get workers to travel long distances to industry jobs and didn't want to have to build cottage towns for every single mine considering the huge costs of some of the necessary buildings etc
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Mar 9, 2023 02:28
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Asproigerosis posted:I remember last time I played I couldn't figure out how to get workers to travel long distances to industry jobs and didn't want to have to build cottage towns for every single mine considering the huge costs of some of the necessary buildings etc Depending on just how far, you could still send a train of workers, especially if you're ok with transfers.
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Mar 9, 2023 02:37
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Asproigerosis posted:I remember last time I played I couldn't figure out how to get workers to travel long distances to industry jobs and didn't want to have to build cottage towns for every single mine considering the huge costs of some of the necessary buildings etc Just build a fifty mile long cable car duh.
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Mar 9, 2023 02:56
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Yeah the thing with commutes is time, workers won't spend more than I think five hours commuting (lol) so faster and more direct forms of transport are important there. All else failing, helicopters are both extremely fast and extremely direct, and a valid choice for staffing things like water faciltiies on top of a mountain. But yeah cable cars will usually work for several kilometers, trains are fast enough that you can usually ship people a long way with them provided your rail network isn't a mess, and are extremely high capacity which is good for mines, although you will run into the issue of repeatability as you will need a silly number of trains to make sure the mine is staffed for each shift (which is another advantage of cable cars, constant transfer rates). Road vehicles suffer in poor weather and are thus to be avoided for long distance commutes.
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Mar 9, 2023 04:36
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