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(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)
 
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zone
Dec 6, 2016

Toxic Mental posted:

• Many Ukrainians state that they do not like or want my colonialism

:lol:

content:
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1633613230382694400

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Tarkus
Aug 27, 2000

Sounds like no one is getting ammo. Good.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Tarkus posted:

Sounds like no one is getting ammo. Good.

I'm told that negotiations make peace rather than weapons, so the fewer weapons make their way to the Russian front lines objectively the more peace we'll have.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

the holy poopacy posted:

I'm told that negotiations make peace rather than weapons, so the fewer weapons make their way to the Russian front lines objectively the more peace we'll have.

Look at it this way; Strelkov mentioned that Russia has enough gas in the tank to prosecute the war for a further nine months, and then they're helpless to do anything to even attain the limited objectives set at the beginning of the year.

Mistle
Oct 11, 2005

Eckot's comic relief cousin from out of town
Grimey Drawer

Dwesa posted:

Btw, RT twitter and other stuff (along with some other Russian media) is not visible in most European countries

Victis
Mar 26, 2008

Single big boom in downtown Kyiv, 6AM so not many out on the streets

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?
I hope Kharkiv is okay after the barrage. It would really suck to get hammered the day after they turned the steet lights back on.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

zone posted:

The caveman Milchakov weighs in again saying that war crimes are cool and good if they save the lives of murderers and occupiers.

There's some truth in the "what you hear from both sides is propaganda" line that's so big with apologists. Just funny how it turns out to be:

Ukrainian propaganda: "Russian soldiers are doing horrible war crimes!" :stonk:

Russian propaganda: "Russian soldiers are doing horrible war crimes!" :haw:

Dr. Quarex
Apr 18, 2003

I'M A BIG DORK WHO POSTS TOO MUCH ABOUT CONVENTIONS LOOK AT THIS

TOVA TOVA TOVA

Killer robot posted:

There's some truth in the "what you hear from both sides is propaganda" line that's so big with apologists. Just funny how it turns out to be:

Ukrainian propaganda: "Russian soldiers are doing horrible war crimes!" :stonk:

Russian propaganda: "Russian soldiers are doing horrible war crimes!" :haw:
Of all the times for me to be unable to find the video of the political ads for Democrats vs. Republicans where the voiceover says the same thing but either happily or threateningly depending on the audience

I swear 20 years ago right-wing monsters still had some sort of self-awareness relating to not publicizing atrocities?

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XbOFc1MkoQ
New pair of intercepted phone calls, taken somewhere around a month ago. One is an evacuation team member talking about the heavy losses in the Bakhmut direction and the fact that soldiers are hardly relieved or rotated out most of the time during the whole year this war's been thus far prosecuted. Other call is a mom whose son was positive for Hepatitis C and drafted into the service anyway, despite there being an exemption in his case, trying to make an arrangement to have him taken off the front and sent back home. :nms: for mention of dead and wounded.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1633680724673871874
God dammit, did they save several months' worth of missiles just for this or something?

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

All right so we have two opposing viewpoints here which is really interesting we have the viewpoint that the Russian soldiers are not getting ammo because Wagner is getting ammo and we have the viewpoint that Wagner's not getting ammo because the other Russian soldiers aren't getting ammo. This in itself is a very stiff intentional engineering of divisiveness. While this also could be hiding the fact that ammo shortages are everywhere which I don't doubt. It's also putting the soldiers against wagner. Which would make it easier if Wagner steps out of line to then tell the soldiers to go ahead and you know start the cleansing.

Wagner was seen as some kind of Russian superhero up until like 2 or 3 weeks ago. Now kadyrov is suffering from poisoning.

We can't see all of the details and we have to investigate this like a detective, we only can see the results of the actions that are clear. Putin maybe focusing on what any ruler does at the end of his tenure as a human being which is to selectively shift the routes of power. Military big men are exactly what Putin fears the most. He fears people like prigohzin and deconstructs the narrative of their heroism.

The truth is there's ammo shortages everywhere, The narrative being portrayed is one that causes divisiveness amongst the military.

As the people running the military currently actually have soldiers underneath them that expect to be commanded, that's a threat to Putin. Putin enjoyed when his military could be used as low level mafia soldiers, once they turn into a professional fighting force (that's a stretch but my definition for this statement is that they're fighting a war) the better traits of certain military leaders were on display as they had to be.

DiomedesGodshill
Feb 21, 2009

Putin should just say "Welp we lost and let's all go home and have blyatzza"

Cthulu Carl
Apr 16, 2006


Wait, are they actually called the 'Kamikaze Brigade'? Or is that just some kind of dumb joke?

Victis
Mar 26, 2008

Cthulu Carl posted:

Wait, are they actually called the 'Kamikaze Brigade'? Or is that just some kind of dumb joke?

The 155th marines got annihilated doing suicidal attacks

zone
Dec 6, 2016

Cthulu Carl posted:

Wait, are they actually called the 'Kamikaze Brigade'? Or is that just some kind of dumb joke?

Probably referring to the fact they were defeated in frontal attacks against Vuhledar and then sent away to be replaced by these guys.

Flavahbeast
Jul 21, 2001


Arc Hammer posted:

I hope Kharkiv is okay after the barrage. It would really suck to get hammered the day after they turned the steet lights back on.

That might be why they're targeting Kharkiv and Odessa's electricity today, at least one of the pro-invasion bloggers was seriously mad about those Kharkiv street lights coming back on despite expending a billion+ USD worth of cruise missiles (Im trying to find the telegram post, I can't find it)

zone
Dec 6, 2016

Flavahbeast posted:

That might be why they're targeting Kharkiv and Odessa's electricity today, at least one of the pro-invasion bloggers was seriously mad about those Kharkiv street lights coming back on despite expending a billion+ USD worth of cruise missiles (Im trying to find the telegram post, I can't find it)

quote:

Strelkov Igor Ivanovich
Partners also have a holiday...

________________
Igor Anikin :

In Kharkov, for the first time since the beginning of the war, street lighting was turned on. Of course, no one will ask General Armageddon Kukoldon where hundreds of expensive Caliber and other Iskanders, which supposedly destroyed the Ukrainian energy infrastructure, went. As did his successor.

However, we wrote more than once - the rocket show was organized not for victory, but for negotiations. Which, of course, no one went to. Shot into the void.
Russian Diploma

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006
Russian missile strikes hit Kyiv in the Holosiivskyi District, and the missile strikes are still ongoing nationwide.

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1633688519230013440?s=20



Bakhmut updates:

Today's footage confirmed the initial report that Ukraine still controls Khromove. The AFU has made an alternate route after blowing up the regular roads, and north of Opytne the Russians are pushing and the same goes for the Bakhmut cemetery area.




It is still possible, maybe likely, that Bakhmut could fall in the next few days according to NATO Sec-Gen Stoltenberg:

https://twitter.com/Lastkombo/status/1633690593506328577?s=20

Also, guess who's back out near Crimea.... :)




Also, new ISW dropped:

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1633657443006775296?t=a6_jWPNdCoy-7yv7F_7WbQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1633657446198566913?t=qFn7Ry3HMhvR05lYJyS1LQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1633657449478594567?t=KUBNrdMuI5r-88HsYU74eQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1633657450871111680?t=QgpXfoJ02fvoIAuIcubuIA&s=19

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1633651046546386945?t=ddDiJGvJ4D4FyH6TI_tBdQ&s=19

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1633651048379297799?t=t0gPzNjYCxCyOOmHvQFdqQ&s=19

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Mar 9, 2023

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1633698611807518725
Unfortunately another missile hit a residential district in Kyiv. Emergency services are on the spot.

a podcast for cats
Jun 22, 2005

Dogs reading from an artifact buried in the ruins of our civilization, "We were assholes- " and writing solemnly, "They were assholes."
Soiled Meat
6:30 am over here and the IKs already stopped out the stupid derail, so at the risk of catching a probation, I would like to point out exhibit A:

A Russian propaganda ad from last year that clearly shows the dangers Russians moving abroad will encounter. Namely, uncouth lesbians, militant vegetarians, racially segregated bathroom queues and childfree lifestyle supremacists.

https://twitter.com/BabelHodl/status/1578583611451748352?t=pSTSKZsaAnIzmBvyE5W5Cw&s=19

If anything, Simonyan is still saying the same thing.

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1633701269725388802
:negative:

Sweaty IT Nerd
Jul 13, 2007

Uncouth lesbians are dope

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1633301025896497153
Imperialist, racist scum.

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006
Kyiv mayor Klitschko reports that 15% of people in the capital are without power:

https://twitter.com/Vitaliy_Klychko/status/1633697181528911873?s=20

Rocket hit a thermal plant

:nws: Burning building in the distance, no bodies or anything like that :nws:

https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/status/1633700279387316224?s=20

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Mar 9, 2023

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1633711386420183040
The missile that hit the power plant was another loving Kinzhal. Where are those Patriot batteries?

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

HonorableTB posted:

Kyiv mayor Klitschko reports that 15% of people in the capital are without power:

https://twitter.com/Vitaliy_Klychko/status/1633697181528911873?s=20

Rocket hit a thermal plant

:nws: Burning building in the distance, no bodies or anything like that :nws:

https://twitter.com/ArthurM40330824/status/1633700279387316224?s=20

15% without power is extremely low. Like embarrassing. Not to say it's GOOD to cripple the power but this is mediocre for the amount of missiles fired off.

Toxic Mental
Jun 1, 2019

This is a good analysis and deconstruction of the Kinzhal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSPoF7IIefU

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006

zone posted:

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1633711386420183040
The missile that hit the power plant was another loving Kinzhal. Where are those Patriot batteries?

A Patriot can intercept a Kinzhal if it catches it below Mach 6, but a Kinzhal can travel up to Mach 12 and no ABM system on the planet's going to stop a ballistic missile at that speed short of an integrated AEGIS network like you'd see in a carrier group. It all depends on when, where, and how soon your Patriot radar detects the incoming ballistic missile.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
A bit of a tangent from the war coverage.

Before the invasion of 24 Feb., dozens of Ukrainians contributed photos and videos to Google Maps of the city that was Bakhmut. I'm sure we've all seen the drone video and satellite images of the horrors inflicted, but the slices of life these offer provide a much-needed human scale to all that was lost. Bakhmut was no tourist hub, no world-renowned center of economic or cultural activity. But it was a place some 72,000 Ukrainians cherished as home, now utterly annihilated by Putin's war of aggression. Virtually all of the men, women, and children in these photos are either war refugees, soldiers, or dead. Similar scenes can be found across the vast swathes of invaded territory. All because Vlad wanted to make Russia great again.

In the last year, we've seen a number of randos inexplicably wander into the thread in a huff that posters here feel so strongly about the conflict, decrying the enthusiasm displayed for Ukraine persevering in the face of the Russian onslaught. Many sling accusations that the conflict is treated as a sporting match, where we're rooting for "our team". I'd say that reveals a lot more about the accusers and their understanding of the situation than those they're presuming to understand the motivations of. I'd wager that most folks here aren't arbitrarily cheering on the Blues over the Greens—a conflict between two all but indistinguishable sides in a fight fundamentally lacking in stakes. Though I'm personally well outside the conflict zone and it's had negligible impact on my daily life, that certainly doesn't preclude empathy for the millions of Putin's victims. To look at what's happened and come to any conclusion but "Ukraine must win this war" is impossible for me to grasp.

I'll post a few of the images. Sorry if it comes off as voyeuristic or touristy, but taking the time to poke around at these images and videos people cared about enough to put up for all to see was genuinely moving. I hope one day the people of Bakhmut and of Ukraine at large can heal the grievous wounds this war has inflicted.

Children sledding in Serednyy Park (not sure the video links are embedding properly...)
https://goo.gl/maps/wv7sJa9iRM8YWStt9
https://i.imgur.com/c7GeTMS.mp4

A race at the Sports Complex
https://goo.gl/maps/ZRvVLkvZGy9xASPh9
https://i.imgur.com/uJxu04h.mp4

A random street
https://goo.gl/maps/Cwh1iajQYAj21KRw7


A random intersection
https://goo.gl/maps/J7AnhRKnoUoKKgpn7


City view from the Martynov Palace of Culture
https://goo.gl/maps/euiuJiop7SCkst819


The Central Library
https://goo.gl/maps/62Esj2oFbTDgWyym8


A park on the banks of the Bakhmutova
https://goo.gl/maps/1q5XRp8hdgyFttX28


A busy playground
https://goo.gl/maps/nhnmn5P9MEdXdR2t8


Rose Alley behind the Department of Culture
https://goo.gl/maps/tQpFeTAPWcXDDJuH8


Mariupol'ske Cemetery
https://goo.gl/maps/eA6EUvAQk6T2Spoc7

zone
Dec 6, 2016

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1633722735103819778
For what it's worth, it appears that the draft law on foreign agents has been withdrawn in Georgia for now. So it seems the protests were successful in their end for the time being.

HonorableTB
Dec 22, 2006

Cugel the Clever posted:

A bit of a tangent from the war coverage.

Before the invasion of 24 Feb., dozens of Ukrainians contributed photos and videos to Google Maps of the city that was Bakhmut. I'm sure we've all seen the drone video and satellite images of the horrors inflicted, but the slices of life these offer provide a much-needed human scale to all that was lost. Bakhmut was no tourist hub, no world-renowned center of economic or cultural activity. But it was a place some 72,000 Ukrainians cherished as home, now utterly annihilated by Putin's war of aggression. Virtually all of the men, women, and children in these photos are either war refugees, soldiers, or dead. Similar scenes can be found across the vast swathes of invaded territory. All because Vlad wanted to make Russia great again.

In the last year, we've seen a number of randos inexplicably wander into the thread in a huff that posters here feel so strongly about the conflict, decrying the enthusiasm displayed for Ukraine persevering in the face of the Russian onslaught. Many sling accusations that the conflict is treated as a sporting match, where we're rooting for "our team". I'd say that reveals a lot more about the accusers and their understanding of the situation than those they're presuming to understand the motivations of. I'd wager that most folks here aren't arbitrarily cheering on the Blues over the Greens—a conflict between two all but indistinguishable sides in a fight fundamentally lacking in stakes. Though I'm personally well outside the conflict zone and it's had negligible impact on my daily life, that certainly doesn't preclude empathy for the millions of Putin's victims. To look at what's happened and come to any conclusion but "Ukraine must win this war" is impossible for me to grasp.

I'll post a few of the images. Sorry if it comes off as voyeuristic or touristy, but taking the time to poke around at these images and videos people cared about enough to put up for all to see was genuinely moving. I hope one day the people of Bakhmut and of Ukraine at large can heal the grievous wounds this war has inflicted.

drat good post

Youth Decay
Aug 18, 2015


Better article https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64880144.amp
Except Zazou is worth far more than the $20,000 it says; that $20,000 is just the stallion's stud fee, and he may breed 100+ mares a year. $10 million is closer to reality.

Interesting info about a prior incident

quote:

Czech Radio reported that there was an attempt to remove the two horses - Zazou and a second thoroughbred named after Russian composer Mikhail Glinka - in January last year, weeks before Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Two Russian-speaking men arrived at the stud farm claiming they were under instruction to take the horses to Poland, arguing that sanctioned animals could be moved across borders as long as they did not leave the EU.

The stud farm's owner was unmoved and locked the stables to prevent the horses being taken. He says the pair spent five days sitting in a van parked outside the gates, before finally leaving with a horsebox bearing Mr Kadyrov's personal livery.

My guess is that either Kadyrov's men "stole" the horse from the Czech farm where he is boarded and want the owner of the farm to pay ransom (since the Kadyrov's assets are frozen the horse's stud fees right now are going to the farm and not Kadyrov), or Kadyrov's rivals just think they can kick him while he's down.

Karate Bastard
Jul 31, 2007

Soiled Meat

Cugel the Clever posted:

A bit of a tangent from the war coverage.

Before the invasion of 24 Feb., dozens of Ukrainians contributed photos and videos to Google Maps of the city that was Bakhmut. I'm sure we've all seen the drone video and satellite images of the horrors inflicted, but the slices of life these offer provide a much-needed human scale to all that was lost. Bakhmut was no tourist hub, no world-renowned center of economic or cultural activity. But it was a place some 72,000 Ukrainians cherished as home, now utterly annihilated by Putin's war of aggression. Virtually all of the men, women, and children in these photos are either war refugees, soldiers, or dead. Similar scenes can be found across the vast swathes of invaded territory. All because Vlad wanted to make Russia great again.

In the last year, we've seen a number of randos inexplicably wander into the thread in a huff that posters here feel so strongly about the conflict, decrying the enthusiasm displayed for Ukraine persevering in the face of the Russian onslaught. Many sling accusations that the conflict is treated as a sporting match, where we're rooting for "our team". I'd say that reveals a lot more about the accusers and their understanding of the situation than those they're presuming to understand the motivations of. I'd wager that most folks here aren't arbitrarily cheering on the Blues over the Greens—a conflict between two all but indistinguishable sides in a fight fundamentally lacking in stakes. Though I'm personally well outside the conflict zone and it's had negligible impact on my daily life, that certainly doesn't preclude empathy for the millions of Putin's victims. To look at what's happened and come to any conclusion but "Ukraine must win this war" is impossible for me to grasp.

I'll post a few of the images. Sorry if it comes off as voyeuristic or touristy, but taking the time to poke around at these images and videos people cared about enough to put up for all to see was genuinely moving. I hope one day the people of Bakhmut and of Ukraine at large can heal the grievous wounds this war has inflicted.

Well put, thank you for taking the time.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Cugel the Clever posted:

A bit of a tangent from the war coverage.



Thank you, this was a great post

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Cugel the Clever posted:

A bit of a tangent from the war coverage.



This was a very sobering post.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Cugel the Clever posted:

A bit of a tangent from the war coverage.

Before the invasion of 24 Feb., dozens of Ukrainians contributed photos and videos to Google Maps of the city that was Bakhmut. I'm sure we've all seen the drone video and satellite images of the horrors inflicted, but the slices of life these offer provide a much-needed human scale to all that was lost. Bakhmut was no tourist hub, no world-renowned center of economic or cultural activity. But it was a place some 72,000 Ukrainians cherished as home, now utterly annihilated by Putin's war of aggression. Virtually all of the men, women, and children in these photos are either war refugees, soldiers, or dead. Similar scenes can be found across the vast swathes of invaded territory. All because Vlad wanted to make Russia great again.

In the last year, we've seen a number of randos inexplicably wander into the thread in a huff that posters here feel so strongly about the conflict, decrying the enthusiasm displayed for Ukraine persevering in the face of the Russian onslaught. Many sling accusations that the conflict is treated as a sporting match, where we're rooting for "our team". I'd say that reveals a lot more about the accusers and their understanding of the situation than those they're presuming to understand the motivations of. I'd wager that most folks here aren't arbitrarily cheering on the Blues over the Greens—a conflict between two all but indistinguishable sides in a fight fundamentally lacking in stakes. Though I'm personally well outside the conflict zone and it's had negligible impact on my daily life, that certainly doesn't preclude empathy for the millions of Putin's victims. To look at what's happened and come to any conclusion but "Ukraine must win this war" is impossible for me to grasp.

I'll post a few of the images. Sorry if it comes off as voyeuristic or touristy, but taking the time to poke around at these images and videos people cared about enough to put up for all to see was genuinely moving. I hope one day the people of Bakhmut and of Ukraine at large can heal the grievous wounds this war has inflicted.


That really is well-put.

Of course, the go-to retort is that the city would still be standing if the occupiers were allowed to roll in without a fight, but the buildings aren't the point, the people are. Given the openly genocidal statements of purpose by the invaders and what we've seen from liberated regions, their lives, well-being, and self-determination were at stake regardless of how they defended themselves. To be clear and avoid false equivalence, the Russian plan for a pacified Ukraine doesn't have as many bodies in the ground as the Nazi plan for a pacified Ukraine did. Not all genocides are the Holocaust (or its planned sequel for Slavic populations) and not all fascism is Nazi Germany. But it's still loving monstrous, and taking a firm side in it without being there is just basic empathy and morality.

teen witch
Oct 9, 2012

Cugel the Clever posted:

A bit of a tangent from the war coverage.

Before the invasion of 24 Feb., dozens of Ukrainians contributed photos and videos to Google Maps of the city that was Bakhmut. I'm sure we've all seen the drone video and satellite images of the horrors inflicted, but the slices of life these offer provide a much-needed human scale to all that was lost. Bakhmut was no tourist hub, no world-renowned center of economic or cultural activity. But it was a place some 72,000 Ukrainians cherished as home, now utterly annihilated by Putin's war of aggression. Virtually all of the men, women, and children in these photos are either war refugees, soldiers, or dead. Similar scenes can be found across the vast swathes of invaded territory. All because Vlad wanted to make Russia great again.

In the last year, we've seen a number of randos inexplicably wander into the thread in a huff that posters here feel so strongly about the conflict, decrying the enthusiasm displayed for Ukraine persevering in the face of the Russian onslaught. Many sling accusations that the conflict is treated as a sporting match, where we're rooting for "our team". I'd say that reveals a lot more about the accusers and their understanding of the situation than those they're presuming to understand the motivations of. I'd wager that most folks here aren't arbitrarily cheering on the Blues over the Greens—a conflict between two all but indistinguishable sides in a fight fundamentally lacking in stakes. Though I'm personally well outside the conflict zone and it's had negligible impact on my daily life, that certainly doesn't preclude empathy for the millions of Putin's victims. To look at what's happened and come to any conclusion but "Ukraine must win this war" is impossible for me to grasp.

I'll post a few of the images. Sorry if it comes off as voyeuristic or touristy, but taking the time to poke around at these images and videos people cared about enough to put up for all to see was genuinely moving. I hope one day the people of Bakhmut and of Ukraine at large can heal the grievous wounds this war has inflicted.

Hard, but necessary to see and think about. Thank you for sharing

zone
Dec 6, 2016

Killer robot posted:

That really is well-put.

Of course, the go-to retort is that the city would still be standing if the occupiers were allowed to roll in without a fight, but the buildings aren't the point, the people are. Given the openly genocidal statements of purpose by the invaders and what we've seen from liberated regions, their lives, well-being, and self-determination were at stake regardless of how they defended themselves. To be clear and avoid false equivalence, the Russian plan for a pacified Ukraine doesn't have as many bodies in the ground as the Nazi plan for a pacified Ukraine did. Not all genocides are the Holocaust (or its planned sequel for Slavic populations) and not all fascism is Nazi Germany. But it's still loving monstrous, and taking a firm side in it without being there is just basic empathy and morality.

Anyone suggesting this unironically by this point is either hopelessly naive or, if we're talking about those suggesting it from a place of malice, let them continue to bark. Either way what they say or don't say isn't going to change what's going on or the course of the war. Though I may have less charitable thoughts if your whole thought process goes "Russia good because America bad and anything that makes America look bad is good for me too". There's nothing neutral about that, or saying that both sides in this conflict are bad, this is no different really from red hats doing anything they think "owns the libs".

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Set
Oct 30, 2005

Cugel the Clever posted:

A bit of a tangent from the war coverage.

Before the invasion of 24 Feb., dozens of Ukrainians contributed photos and videos to Google Maps of the city that was Bakhmut. I'm sure we've all seen the drone video and satellite images of the horrors inflicted, but the slices of life these offer provide a much-needed human scale to all that was lost. Bakhmut was no tourist hub, no world-renowned center of economic or cultural activity. But it was a place some 72,000 Ukrainians cherished as home, now utterly annihilated by Putin's war of aggression. Virtually all of the men, women, and children in these photos are either war refugees, soldiers, or dead. Similar scenes can be found across the vast swathes of invaded territory. All because Vlad wanted to make Russia great again.

In the last year, we've seen a number of randos inexplicably wander into the thread in a huff that posters here feel so strongly about the conflict, decrying the enthusiasm displayed for Ukraine persevering in the face of the Russian onslaught. Many sling accusations that the conflict is treated as a sporting match, where we're rooting for "our team". I'd say that reveals a lot more about the accusers and their understanding of the situation than those they're presuming to understand the motivations of. I'd wager that most folks here aren't arbitrarily cheering on the Blues over the Greens—a conflict between two all but indistinguishable sides in a fight fundamentally lacking in stakes. Though I'm personally well outside the conflict zone and it's had negligible impact on my daily life, that certainly doesn't preclude empathy for the millions of Putin's victims. To look at what's happened and come to any conclusion but "Ukraine must win this war" is impossible for me to grasp.

I'll post a few of the images. Sorry if it comes off as voyeuristic or touristy, but taking the time to poke around at these images and videos people cared about enough to put up for all to see was genuinely moving. I hope one day the people of Bakhmut and of Ukraine at large can heal the grievous wounds this war has inflicted.

This is a great post. Thank you especially for taking the time to find and share the videos and photos!

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