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People always point out that the cartels do a lot of business outside of drug trafficking but strong arming politicians over timber trade is just regular business and probably wouldn’t stack up as many bodies.
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Mar 9, 2023 19:25
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I just assume that at the political and enforcement level the decision makers think of the war on drugs as a holy crusade or something insane like that. This is so loving dumb. We could stop hammering our nation's proverbial dick but then little Johnny might get hopped up on legally obtained goofballs and become an addict as opposed to how he's getting them illegally and becoming an addict. Wow, can't take that chance.
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Mar 9, 2023 19:41
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Cartels are the defacto government force in some parts of Mexico. There is no part of Mexican government or elements of border security (including in the US) that some cartel does not have a grip on. They have their fingers in drugs, protection, racketeering, and human trafficking, but they also have substantial assets in legitimate businesses. America would approach the Cartel issue as one of internal security and insurgency, instead of looking at the fact it's way beyond a security threat.
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Mar 9, 2023 19:41
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If I was in charge of dealing with the Mexico cartel problem I would simply find somewhere else to be.
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Mar 9, 2023 20:12
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Sicario is a great film
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Mar 9, 2023 20:32
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Sicario is a great film  The sequel, however, is not.edit: I absolutely adore how goddamn tired and old the Delta guys look in the first movie. Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Mar 9, 2023 |
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Mar 9, 2023 21:21
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Eason the Fifth posted:
Disagree. Second one was still good. Both are great movies.
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Mar 9, 2023 21:27
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bulletsponge13 posted:Disagree. Second one was still good. Both are great movies. Sorry if this is turning the thread into CineD, but -- I like the idea of the second movie, and there are still some great and cynical/realistic ideas in it, but for me it's just missing the weight of the first one. I think a lot of that was Macer and Wayne working as the audience stand-in (the two of them realizing at the same time as the audience what Graver and Gillick are actually doing is a pretty good gut punch). Without characters like them to ground the awfulness, the horror and violence in the second movie was easier to step back from. The sequel is also missing Roger Deakins's cinematography, which was just incredible and went a long way into making the first movie so suspenseful. The buildup to the fight at the border (and the fight itself) was A+. I can't think of an equally powerful scene in the sequel. Sounds like they're making a third movie, but I don't have high hopes for it. (I'll probably still watch it though.)
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Mar 9, 2023 21:38
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i kept being told graver isn't the protagonist but ??? i've watched them lots how is he not the good guy (brave company man defending america), very confusing!
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Mar 9, 2023 22:05
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Eason the Fifth posted:Sorry if this is turning the thread into CineD, but -- I like the idea of the second movie, and there are still some great and cynical/realistic ideas in it, but for me it's just missing the weight of the first one. I think a lot of that was Macer and Wayne working as the audience stand-in (the two of them realizing at the same time as the audience what Graver and Gillick are actually doing is a pretty good gut punch). Without characters like them to ground the awfulness, the horror and violence in the second movie was easier to step back from. The sequel is also missing Roger Deakins's cinematography, which was just incredible and went a long way into making the first movie so suspenseful. The buildup to the fight at the border (and the fight itself) was A+. I can't think of an equally powerful scene in the sequel. Completely fair criticisms. The 2nd also seemed like it was set up for a wider audience- it lacked that precise tense pacing. I think knowing the characters also hurt the 2nd one. I love that Border Shootout as much as I love the Shootout from HEAT. I find the scene in the 2nd where they do the Vehicle Interdiction and wipe out the truck of gunman to be powerful, solely because the way Brolin walks away. The 2nd also feels like the natural progression- the war is starting to wear on everyone involved, and we see no difference, just different players.
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Mar 9, 2023 22:17
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i mean i was referring to the bit towards the end of the first where brolin outright says they haven't got a hope in hell of winning the war but draws the conclusion that rather than find another solution they should just do whatever might give some semblance of control
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Mar 9, 2023 22:25
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bulletsponge13 posted:
That was a pretty great and shocking scene, for sure. And how the girl just goes catatonic by end from all the violence isn't something you generally see out of Hollywood. Both movies do have a realism to them (excepting a couple of scenes) that most other movies don't pull off. Comrade Blyatlov posted:i mean i was referring to the bit towards the end of the first where brolin outright says they haven't got a hope in hell of winning the war but draws the conclusion that rather than find another solution they should just do whatever might give some semblance of control The sequel is exactly about the kind of poo poo Lindsay Graham wants us to get into with getting all GWOT on the cartels. It is an incredibly horrifying idea. Eason the Fifth fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Mar 9, 2023 |
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Mar 9, 2023 22:28
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Violence in the Sicario movies is excellently done. It's near over the top, but still in the realm of reality. They also take the effort to show the reactions to witnessing and participating in violence, and showing how immune you become to it after chronic exposure. I really like in the 2nd when Not Mike Vinning (guy from Burn Notice, im bad with names) gets shot, and how angry he gets from it. That was shockingly realistic to some reactions I've seen.
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Mar 9, 2023 22:54
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Sicario 2 wasn't AS good as the first one, but I still enjoyed it. bulletsponge13 posted:I really like in the 2nd when Not Mike Vinning (guy from Burn Notice, im bad with names) gets shot, and how angry he gets from it. That was shockingly realistic to some reactions I've seen. Jeffrey Donovan. And yeah the way violence in those movies is portrayed is very  but as you said, still within the realm of reality.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:01
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I just fail to see how legalizing drugs would make for a friendlier nicer cartel. It just ends up rewarding them for waiting us out. The only thing I could see it is potentially a better outcome than the current system. But that's not even a guarantee. I don't even care about the legalizing drugs part I just don't like the idea of giving the keys to the cartels. What timescale would this even be looking at? For them to forego violence and human trafficking, etc... Like others have said cartels have gone legit in other ways. Don't they basically run the avocado industry? I thought I read that years ago. Honestly not sure which is a bigger industry, avocados vs illegal drugs. It might not even be close for all I know. Has there been any noticeable shift towards more consumer specific corporate style enterprises versus what we obviously don't want? Have they shown any desire to want to go legit and just take advantage of capitalism vs people? It's funny, I went to Yuma, AZ for a work trip this year and I asked the people I was working with about going across the border. He said they get monthly briefings on what has been going on but there are certain warnings like don't drive a nice car down there and try to stay in groups. Just some thoughts, if I'm wrong see my name.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:19
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Handsome Ralph posted:Sicario 2 wasn't AS good as the first one, but I still enjoyed it. I like him as an actor, and find it a shame he isn't higher profile. I love Burn Notice, but he's done nothing but solid work from everything I've seen. I'm glad they costumed him as they did for both movies- not just because Vinning was an Uppercase G, but because it breaks the visual stereotype of what people expect. E- I've seen a few pieces talking about how Cartels have completely invested in the US Cannabis industry, but it was all business talk and shell company nomenclature so I didn't quite understand all the intricacies. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a significant hand in operations of the US agriculture industry, since they traffic the workers. bulletsponge13 fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 9, 2023 |
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Mar 9, 2023 23:21
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Wrong Theory posted:I just fail to see how legalizing drugs would make for a friendlier nicer cartel. It just ends up rewarding them for waiting us out. The only thing I could see it is potentially a better outcome than the current system. But that's not even a guarantee. I don't even care about the legalizing drugs part I just don't like the idea of giving the keys to the cartels. What timescale would this even be looking at? For them to forego violence and human trafficking, etc... Legalize the drugs, forbid import of said drugs from outside the USA to claim its for health reasons (like we forbid prescription ones from Canada). Then the opium producers in the US can shift to making and selling legal coke. Your 401k does better and we get to watch the poors flush their life down the tubes while making big bank for the healthcare companies that get permanent debtors. Meanwhile the cartel moneystream dries up and it goes to big pharma instead.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:21
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Wrong Theory posted:I just fail to see how legalizing drugs would make for a friendlier nicer cartel. It doesn't. It does however pull away one of the bigger pillars of power they use to be as rich and powerful as they are.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:22
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Eason the Fifth posted:The sequel is also missing Roger Deakins's cinematography, which was just incredible Indeed. Deakins makes every film an incredible visual experience, and there are examples of this all throughout Sicario.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:22
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If legalized, I just want to grow poppies and make artesian heroin.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:25
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bulletsponge13 posted:I just want to grow poppies and make artesian heroin. Oh god, the whole bud-tender aesthetic around here is already insufferable enough. I'm not excited for horse-tender or whatever they gonna call it.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:26
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Wrong Theory posted:I just fail to see how legalizing drugs would make for a friendlier nicer cartel. It just ends up rewarding them for waiting us out. The only thing I could see it is potentially a better outcome than the current system. But that's not even a guarantee. I don't even care about the legalizing drugs part I just don't like the idea of giving the keys to the cartels. What timescale would this even be looking at? For them to forego violence and human trafficking, etc... Because legalization means that other recreational drug suppliers can compete and having a huge hitsquad of cartel murdermen becomes a legal liabitily. Nabisco doesn't firebomb the trucks of General Mills because they'd be sued if they did so. Also the price of drugs would drop substantially and Cartels wouldn't be raking in money hand over fist. They may have inroads into other industries but their bread and butter is running drugs. Guns and people are natural synergies to the drug game, and some portion of the cartel might break off to do that full time, but that is not nearly the same size market as moving cocaine/meth/heroin/fent through the southern border. If drugs are legalized you could get your bespoke cocaine made in the USA by local purveyors from your neighborhood drug retailer. Those sellers would be protected by the police and the cartel wouldn't be able to use affiliate gangs to control the trade in a given area. It would 100% completely reshape the way in which drugs are manufactured, sold, and consumed. Beyond the issues of consumption the major beneficiaries would likely be corporate america Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Mar 9, 2023 |
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Mar 9, 2023 23:34
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I just want legal hallucinogens so I can take a couple days off and trip balls every so often and know what I’m actually taking.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:36
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CainFortea posted:Oh god, the whole bud-tender aesthetic around here is already insufferable enough. I'm not excited for horse-tender or whatever they gonna call it. Hand made single batch heroin really fits my warlord chic sense of fashion
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Mar 9, 2023 23:50
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CainFortea posted:Oh god, the whole bud-tender aesthetic around here is already insufferable enough. I'm not excited for horse-tender or whatever they gonna call it. Need to start a fine opium tea house instead. Keep it classy. But still insufferable.
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Mar 9, 2023 23:50
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not caring here posted:Need to start a fine opium tea house instead. Keep it classy. But still insufferable. The Sherlock cosplayers will handle the insufferability for you.
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Mar 10, 2023 00:00
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Grip it and rip it posted:Because legalization means that other recreational drug suppliers can compete and having a huge hitsquad of cartel murdermen becomes a legal liabitily. Nabisco doesn't firebomb the trucks of General Mills because they'd be sued if they did so. Also the price of drugs would drop substantially and Cartels wouldn't be raking in money hand over fist. If weed ever gets fully legalized I would like to see how the industry responds. It won't solve a lot of problems but even if it causes a blip on the cartels it shows they are fallible. I still feel like it rewards them but perhaps it is the best lovely option. Between cartel and Sicario chat I really want to play GR Wildlands again. Baby makes three!
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Mar 10, 2023 00:02
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CainFortea posted:Oh god, the whole bud-tender aesthetic around here is already insufferable enough. I'm not excited for horse-tender or whatever they gonna call it. ha ha lemme tell you about the poppy pod tea thread when half of tcc was ordering dried flower arranging supplies from ebay by the 30lb case e: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2545580 shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Mar 10, 2023 |
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Mar 10, 2023 00:08
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Coasterphreak posted:I just want legal hallucinogens so I can take a couple days off and trip balls every so often and know what I’m actually taking. that's part of the fun of illicit chemical hallucinogens, though, how far and how off the rails is that train gonna go??
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Mar 10, 2023 00:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txZRYMBfy_I Current event: Steezus Christ shredded for our sins
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Mar 10, 2023 00:57
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Wrong Theory posted:Between cartel and Sicario chat I really want to play GR Wildlands again. Baby makes three! SHITBALLS
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Mar 10, 2023 01:12
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orange juche posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txZRYMBfy_I My bones liquefied just looking at this.
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Mar 10, 2023 01:36
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That Works posted:Legalize the drugs, forbid import of said drugs from outside the USA to claim its for health reasons (like we forbid prescription ones from Canada). Then the opium producers in the US can shift to making and selling legal coke. Your 401k does better and we get to watch the poors flush their life down the tubes while making big bank for the healthcare companies that get permanent debtors. At least they would be able to branch out from booze and lotto tickets. Maybe if the government started up an anti drug campaign challenging kids to not do drugs. Something like I bet you can't stay off drugs kids should work really well, especially in tandem with a war on Mexican drugs. I'm really surprised these things haven't been tried before.
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Mar 10, 2023 01:50
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A.o.D. posted:My bones liquefied just looking at this. I have a burning need to play Skate 3 again after watching that tbh. The double Christ Air right as Eddie Vedder broke out into the main chorus was great Book of Zephyr 2:4 posted:God had created Axle and Evelyn, the first skaters. He instructed them to learn the way of the board and told them he would give them all of the grip tape, tools, and bearings they would need. He created for them a beautiful park that stretched for miles with anything a skater could want. One day, as Evelyn was practicing her varials, Satan approached her in the form of a scooter, and told her that she didn’t have to learn the way of the board, and simply could carry it around to look like a skater. She told Axle about this, and Axle soon followed suit, and both of them stopped practicing entirely. God noticed that they had strayed from the path and punished them by banishing them from the park and labeling them as posers. orange juche fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Mar 10, 2023 |
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Mar 10, 2023 01:52
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maffew buildings posted:that's part of the fun of illicit chemical hallucinogens, though, how far and how off the rails is that train gonna go?? Yeah until you get something that will actually kill you
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Mar 10, 2023 01:58
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lightpole posted:At least they would be able to branch out from booze and lotto tickets. Thanks to video games and loot boxes and gacha games kids won't have enough money to buy drugs. Checkmate, Cartels
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Mar 10, 2023 02:32
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Wrong Theory posted:I just fail to see how legalizing drugs would make for a friendlier nicer cartel. It just ends up rewarding them for waiting us out. The only thing I could see it is potentially a better outcome than the current system. But that's not even a guarantee. I don't even care about the legalizing drugs part I just don't like the idea of giving the keys to the cartels. What timescale would this even be looking at? For them to forego violence and human trafficking, etc... legalizing recreational drug use would not directly reward the cartels. legal recreational pharmaceuticals would likely be subject to the same policies as non-recreational pharmaceuticals, which are stringent as gently caress. you don't go from running an operation where you make functional drugs (something marketed as an opioid does opioid poo poo) to running a pharmaceutical lab that complies with USP or similar standards overnight. aside from just maintaining high quality standards in production, you also have to do a ton of paperwork for compliance reasons. recreational drugs would likely be subject to additional restrictions as well, at least initially, since it's unlikely governments would allow open season on recreational drug marketing or whatever. you'd likely have to have systems (if not necessarily truly effective systems, but certainly bureaucratic compliance systems) to avoid supplying recreational drugs to people with substance use disorders, and would probably be required to divert some percentage of profits to harm reduction legalization is not a guaranteed removal of the black market, however. legal cannabis in california has clearly demonstrated that there are plenty of operations who find the regulations too much of a burden and continue to sell out of compliance, hoping that they can fly under the radar. that'd likely apply to other legalized drugs as well, though you'd maybe see a shift to in-country production. weed is notable for being probably easier to produce within a state's borders out of sight compared to running a large-scale clandestine lab, but there's definitely precedent for small-scale clandestine labs--they're just currently less common because most of what they'd produce you can just buy in bulk from more professional chinese outfits that have bought off local officials or remain enough under the radar by not producing things that are actually scheduled realistically, the legal recreational market probably mostly gets fulfilled by pharma labs in india and china that are already running pharma reg quality industrial production to produce non-recreational stuff. cartels will move into other criminal or criminal-ish enterprises, like US organized crime did after alcohol prohibition ended. if you're set up to profit off crimes, you do crimes
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Mar 10, 2023 02:38
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California also had over a decade of looking the other way knowing that places were openly selling marijuana since it was effectively decriminalized. When they finally got around to legalization, all of the shops that were trying to abide by the rules and regulations had a very difficult time trying to compete with the fly by night places that had 10 years headstart on them and who could sell way cheaper since they weren’t paying the Cannabis taxes state legislature raised.
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Mar 10, 2023 03:42
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https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1633962751759622144
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Mar 10, 2023 04:27
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Well, I'd like to see ol Donny Trump wriggle his way out of THIS jam! *Trump wriggles his way out of the jam easily* Ah! Well. Nevertheless,
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Mar 10, 2023 04:40
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