(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
|
Skippy McPants posted:Esports to streaming is a pretty common transition since they tend to overlap and a decent streaming audience pays a shitload better than even the best professional gaming organizations. From what I've seen, when it happens the pipeline usually looks more like "eSports to Video Game Streaming to Weirdo Political Commentator" or just "Video Game Streaming to Weirdo Political Commentator", and I think that's largely because people very rapidly run out of things to say about Minecraft after the 10th hour of playing it. Not to go full "Old man yells at cloud" but I've honestly never really understood the appeal of livestreamers in the first place? Maybe it's just because I'm a crotchety old hermit, but all of the things that differentiate livestreams from pre-recorded videos (Chat interaction, it being unscripted, streams going out live at a particular time so you have to actually plan your schedule around watching them, etc.) sound more like downsides than selling points to my ears. It just feels too much like people investing a huge amount of time into watching a guy do boring things because they're afraid of missing the five minutes when something actually entertaining happens. Also, not to open up a whole other can of worms, but I've never understood why vTubers are treated as their own, separate genre of streamer when they only thing that really differentiates them is that they use one of those real-time animated avatar things? Like I've got nothign against vTubers doing what they do, it just more seems weird that there's a separate fandom for them that's treated as distinct from "regular" streamers?
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 16:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 18:27 |
|
|
Vtubers seem to be a semi-protected class of streamer in a way that regular streamers don't have where their private lives tend to get protected by their fanbase for most of the part, though I don't really follow independent vtubers so maybe that's more just a hololive type thing. Like, even though there's not much they can do to stop it outside of official stream chats or whatever, the fanbases don't want you revealing their real faces or discussing what they were putting out on the internet before their current character came into existence. I guess the real distinction is that the people behind the characters are supposed to be treated more as voice actors than personalities, but that distinction is very blurred either way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 17:18
|
|
|
KingKalamari posted:From what I've seen, when it happens the pipeline usually looks more like "eSports to Video Game Streaming to Weirdo Political Commentator" or just "Video Game Streaming to Weirdo Political Commentator", and I think that's largely because people very rapidly run out of things to say about Minecraft after the 10th hour of playing it. I think the appeal of livestreaming is the parallel play aspect. Like, most people who I know watch livestreams are doing something in addition to watching the livestream. So it being relitively boring is an asset. You can keep an ear out for something interesting, and then only pay 100% attention to that interesting thing happens. ( I, myself, don't particuarly care for livestreams, but my girlfriend does like them a lot and have them going constantly in the background. I like streams as white noise better than tv shows as they are so uncompelling I can do other things instead of getting sucked into an episode of TNG or of Stargate SG-1. )
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 17:43
|
|
|
KingKalamari posted:Also, not to open up a whole other can of worms, but I've never understood why vTubers are treated as their own, separate genre of streamer when they only thing that really differentiates them is that they use one of those real-time animated avatar things? Like I've got nothign against vTubers doing what they do, it just more seems weird that there's a separate fandom for them that's treated as distinct from "regular" streamers?
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 18:05
|
|
|
Redezga posted:Vtubers seem to be a semi-protected class of streamer in a way that regular streamers don't have where their private lives tend to get protected by their fanbase for most of the part, though I don't really follow independent vtubers so maybe that's more just a hololive type thing. Like, even though there's not much they can do to stop it outside of official stream chats or whatever, the fanbases don't want you revealing their real faces or discussing what they were putting out on the internet before their current character came into existence. Most of them were previously streamers or voice actors doing it as a side hustle so it's more of a kayfabe/etiquette thing but anybody who wants to find out can do so pretty easily. Dawgstar posted:Yeah, I'm sure it was quite the 'phat L financially.' I wouldn't be at all surprised his some of his bigger individual videos run at a loss but they keep attention on him for his less flashy stunts. His primary talent appears to be just keeping people talking about him (like we're doing right now, for example.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 18:54
|
|
|
Twincityhacker posted:I think the appeal of livestreaming is the parallel play aspect. Like, most people who I know watch livestreams are doing something in addition to watching the livestream. See, I actually find the exact opposite to be true because of the built-in chat aspect. With livestreams it feels like there's meant to be a higher level of viewer engagement while watching, both with the streamer themselves and with the people in chat. That's actually something that's turned me off from LPers I used to follow who've shifted to streaming: Their content changed such that they're spending less time engaging with the game and more time responding to people in chat and thanking people for donations, so if you're trying to just watch a stream in the background most of it is going to be listening to responses to things you're not paying attention to. Maybe it comes down to different ways to engage with something playing in the background while you do other things: you mentioned that prefer to watch things more as background noise and don't want them to be too engaging so they don't distract you, but for me I'm usually watching videos or listening to podcasts while I draw, and I find that engaging with people speaking works an entirely different part of my brain that what I use when I'm drawing, in fact I often find I pay better attention to things like podcasts while I draw. I'm using content more as a way to occupy the parts of my mind that aren't needed for the task at hand as opposed to using it as white noise so what type fo content works for me is a bit different.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 19:02
|
|
|
Quite simply, not every stream and not every streamer is like that. 99% of my Twitch view time is watching smaller folks playing roguelikes really well. There's still occasional sub acknowledgements, but otherwise chat interaction tends to be constructive or much closer 1:1 chit-chat rather than mere gladhanding and there's a much higher ratio of actually playing the game. The other 1% are channels with personality that are run well; Jerma and Vinesauce are both pretty big but they do their own thing and aren't beholden to that obnoxious Twitch style that the biggest, most parasocial channels play at. Also I sure as hell don't tailor my schedule to streams, lol. I just go on Twitch and see who's on at the moment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 19:29
|
|
|
KingKalamari posted:From what I've seen, when it happens the pipeline usually looks more like "eSports to Video Game Streaming to Weirdo Political Commentator" or just "Video Game Streaming to Weirdo Political Commentator", and I think that's largely because people very rapidly run out of things to say about Minecraft after the 10th hour of playing it. This isn't meant to invalidate anything you're saying, just that it isn't nearly as new as some people think. Live streamers are a lot like if you take the concept of a local TV call-in show, and scale it up in both size and amount of audience participation - with all the problems that that entails.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 19:36
|
|
|
Part of Live Streaming is just thats Reaction content, but with games instead (and not even all the time anymore, *glares at Adin Ross*) People just want others to experience what they experienced or what they cant experience. edit: Basically what LPs are, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 20:54
|
|
|
muscles like this! posted:I watched this yesterday and thought it was pretty interesting, except for the part at the end where he does the focus group. Which, to me, came off as kind of unfocused. Like it was a lot of effort to reinforce a point he already made. I liked this video a lot but I do have to agree with this. It’s the classic problem of having an idea you’re really attached to and continuing on with it long after your work has outgrown it
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 21:14
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:I don't exactly disagree that there's a lot to not like about the modern landscape of live-streaming - but it does need to be said that video game livestreaming is about as old as your account here on SA since I used to watch LPers (Raar, Sartak, Oyster, Rchimp, Static Fiend, Garin, Kung Fu Jesus, Skippy, Psychedelic Eyeball, and others) hang out with each other and stream on uStream back in 2007. Oh yeah, and I'm not trying to suggest that people who enjoy livestreams are wrong in their preference either. Indeed, a lot of the things that are turn-offs for me I can see being major selling points for other people. I think I'm just approaching it from the perspective that I don't enjoy a type of media that is demonstrably popular with a lot of people and trying to figure out why that is
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 21:20
|
|
|
DeafNote posted:Part of Live Streaming is just thats Reaction content, but with games instead But contrast that with an LP done by someone who's played the game before, knows a lot about it, and is quite a bit more than good at it - it quickly becomes a whole different experience. One of the better examples I can remember is the Demon's Souls LP by Squint - and since it's over a decade old, I'm now going to go invest in a phylactery, because that made me feel old.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 21:25
|
|
|
What tends to confuse me is that people treat streaming as some singular, monolithic entity. It's like saying you don't listen to radio because all they play is pop music.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 21:31
|
|
|
KingKalamari posted:Oh yeah, and I'm not trying to suggest that people who enjoy livestreams are wrong in their preference either. Indeed, a lot of the things that are turn-offs for me I can see being major selling points for other people. I think I'm just approaching it from the perspective that I don't enjoy a type of media that is demonstrably popular with a lot of people and trying to figure out why that is John Murdoch posted:What tends to confuse me is that people treat streaming as some singular, monolithic entity. It's like saying you don't listen to radio because all they play is pop music.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 21:34
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:What tends to confuse me is that people treat streaming as some singular, monolithic entity. It's like saying you don't listen to radio because all they play is pop music. Yeah, my mom as an example watches art, music, and game streams, but there's all sorts of streams out there. Sports, cooking, travel, and hobby streams are also a thing, and I'm sure there are things like carpentry and gardening streams out there. And if there's something out there you wanna watch but can't find, you could stream yourself if inclined and be the first to do it
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 21:50
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:What tends to confuse me is that people treat streaming as some singular, monolithic entity. It's like saying you don't listen to radio because all they play is pop music. what most streaming has in common is a pretty strong, pretty intentional, parasocial element as part of the experience which skeeves me out. even nice art streams tend to have the streamer talking to chat which is unpleasant to be.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 22:33
|
|
|
This is why AI creation is so appealing. It removes all the gross human elements from everything.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 22:44
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:This is why AI creation is so appealing. It removes all the gross human elements from everything. it's the purposeful cultivation of one-sided relationships for donations that is unsettling.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 23:19
|
|
|
Famethrowa posted:it's the purposeful cultivation of one-sided relationships for donations that is unsettling. It just reminds me of old fashioned patronage system, except you are soliciting tiny amounts from a bunch of people instead of large amounts from a single person or small group of people. Professional artists have always had to eat, and making nice with patrons has always been a skill that has been cultivated unless you were independently wealthy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 23:43
|
|
|
I dont know how an AI could replace streamers Writers and artists sure (though thats a terrible thing instead)
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 23:46
|
|
|
DeafNote posted:I dont know how an AI could replace streamers A very popular stream was just "a pet fish plays pokemon" with various movements translated into button presses. And it was, actually, just the fish and not someone pretending to be a fish for clout because the game crashed, and then the fish exposed the credit card on file for the account while buying a bunch of shovelware titles. I mean, it could have still been just a person pretending to be a fish for clout, but purposefully exposing youself to having your credit ruined seems a little extreme.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2023 23:56
|
|
|
Again, this goes into the sheer variety of what a stream can be. This won't substitute people, just provide a different outlet. Infinite Seinfeld died rather quickly a bit after the creators thought they could see it as something that could replace watching every other single kind of show. Infinite Steamed Hams didn't automatically turn twitch into the Infinite x channel.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 00:10
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:This is why AI creation is so appealing. It removes all the gross human elements from everything. this is a stupid reason
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 00:41
|
|
|
Kunster posted:Again, this goes into the sheer variety of what a stream can be. This won't substitute people, just provide a different outlet. Infinite Seinfeld died rather quickly a bit after the creators thought they could see it as something that could replace watching every other single kind of show. Infinite Steamed Hams didn't automatically turn twitch into the Infinite x channel. I think the thing with something like an AI channel is going to be the same thing as the fish/chat/X plays Dark Souls/Pokemon streams. In the end it comes down to a community forming in the chat that sustains it for as long as it can run. I really like streams for white noise and background watching because I have a lot of hours to fill while I'm working and I get tired of podcasts. But I tend to just let VoDs run, because yeah, the idea of quickly spamming emotes or catchphrases doesn't work for me at all. Part of that is "kids these days" but also chat stuff never clicked with me anyway. It's kind of neat to see though because it feels like pushback against everything breaking up and being on-demand. Nice to see that some people still want to replicate the whole "water cooler" feeling.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 01:07
|
|
|
Neuro Sama (who I originally linked to but then removed the embed) is an AI controlled twitch streamer, and tends to have a LOT of people (a couple thousand) watching at any given time. But it's defiinitely a novelty, and AI is a huge deal right now, so that might run its course after a few months, only time will tell. EDIT: Removed the embed here and clarified my intentions a bit Superrodan fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Mar 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 01:16
|
|
|
Yes, I'm sure good things will come from having everyone link their favorite vTuber.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 01:43
|
|
|
Superrodan posted:tends to have a lot of people watching at any given time. But that might run its course after a few months, only time will tell. 
Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Mar 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 01:47
|
|
|
V(very bad)Tuber
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 01:55
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:Yes, I'm sure good things will come from having everyone link their favorite vTuber. I apologize, I have no interest in this vtuber, and don't want to force a discussion or derail on the merits of vtubers I just wanted to contribute an example of an AI based vtuber that already exists, since it was very relevant to the discussion the thread was moving in about AI generated content creators.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 01:55
|
|
|
People on this website are not capable of talking about vtubers normally, in any way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 02:02
|
|
|
that is because vtubers are extremely abnormal
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 02:15
|
|
|
Superrodan posted:I apologize, I have no interest in this vtuber, and don't want to force a discussion or derail on the merits of vtubers I just wanted to contribute an example of an AI based vtuber that already exists, since it was very relevant to the discussion the thread was moving in about AI generated content creators. There's nothing fundamentally different about your example, it's still just a blackbox algorithm trained to do a half-way decent job at picking the next word in a sentence as a response to a prompt given by a human. It still has absolutely no regard whatsoever for small things like the actual meaning of the words it's using, their veracity or truth, or even whether citations that get made actually match up with scientific facts. Watching the SALAMI get made usually puts people off, so I really don't understand how people aren't turned off and instead seem hell-bent on shoving it into every single product we'll see for the foreseeable future, but that seems to be the way things are inevitably going, because the biggest multi-national mega-corporations are spending ungodly amounts of money on it, and even your average grifter can get in on it with a few GPUs and the usual amount of self-respect they have.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 02:22
|
|
|
BlankSystemDaemon posted:You could've also linked the several chatbots and other Systematic Approaches to Learning Algorithms and Machine Inferences that've already been tricked into spouting hate-speech from having been trained on all the absolute trash that gets added to the internet but that the folks making the datasets think they can get away with stealing because nobody outright claimed copyright on it. This particular example of AI has also already gotten in trouble for that kind of thing. Someone in this thread said something like "I don't see how streamers could be replaced by AI" and this particular experiment popped into mind because I've been reading about it quite a lot lately, so I wanted to point out that at least on a superficial level, it has already started to happen. Now as for the deeper discussion about AI not turning people off, I think its mostly because to a lot of people this is still very much a novelty and many of the situations its being shoved publicly into are not considered essential parts of society. "Shove AI into new, uncharted places and watch the wacky hijinks ensue" still leads to unexpected outcomes that still make people laugh at their absurdity. For example, I don't truly care one way or another about AI search results trying to let someone use bing better, because right now its optional and feels like an experiment as opposed to "this is the future". Because of that, I found the outcome of a search engine telling the person using it they were wrong about something that was clearly right quite fascinating and funny in a darkly comedic way. Like something out of a Douglas Adams novel. At the moment, the highest profile AI seems to, at least for most people, be delegated to situations that don't actually affect people and have been opt-in. So it's like outsiders looking into this really silly thing that we can't imagine being a real threat. The more "trivial" the situation the AI is used in, the less people tend to think of it as a true problem. But even in those cases, there are some people that are against it, because to them it IS a threat. Artists with midjourney stealing their art, for example. Wheras a lot of people who are not artists tend to look at it and think "Isn't it neat what it can make and isn't it funny how it can't get hands right?" I have found that when it gets applied to things that everyone tends to agree are "important" then people actually do care and think "don't put AI in that". There have been articles and television segments for example, about how using AI has led to marginalized people getting passed up for jobs due to being trained on flawed material. The more types of things that come out like that, where the AI in question is being used for something that people consider essential to society and people's status within it, I believe the more pushback AI as a whole will have.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 02:41
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:What tends to confuse me is that people treat streaming as some singular, monolithic entity. It's like saying you don't listen to radio because all they play is pop music. I don't listen to radio because all they play is advertisements with interstitial music or discussions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 03:25
|
|
|
Twincityhacker posted:A very popular stream was just "a pet fish plays pokemon" with various movements translated into button presses. LOL, genuinely amazed at this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 03:28
|
|
|
The fish committing credit card fraud was one of the best things, IIRC the creator first noticed because receipts from the e-shop started getting sent to his phone while he was out
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 03:29
|
|
|
I don't really watch many streams, but I do for some occasions, where a (usually pre-recorded content) creator does a one-off stream. For instance, Hainbach, an electronic music youtuber did a live stream listening party for one of his album releases that I enjoyed. That's a great use for live streaming, in my books
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 03:33
|
|
|
the credit card fraud fish rules, no way could an AI produce something as funny
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 03:34
|
|
|
Twincityhacker posted:A very popular stream was just "a pet fish plays pokemon" with various movements translated into button presses. lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 03:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 18:27 |
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p4o7fXWv-k Watching this brought back a lot of memories as well as existential dread over the fossil I'm slowly turning into.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2023 09:51
|
|