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timberwolves game coming down to it. very exciting second half
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Mar 11, 2023 04:31
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indigi posted:timberwolves game coming down to it. very exciting second half D&D tonight so I lost it after somewhere in the first quarter, looks like Rudy had a monster game for once but the bench got blown out.
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Mar 11, 2023 05:06
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Mar 11, 2023 05:28
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spurs had 68 points in the paint to beat the nuggets today
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Mar 11, 2023 05:42
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indigi posted:timberwolves game coming down to it. very exciting second half i can never catch the good nets games. but hell a wins a win.
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Mar 11, 2023 05:47
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kingcobweb posted:he had more than a marginally better career than Perk. Perk was a stiff that everyone even at the time thought was getting way too many minutes; in retrospect, his numbers are indefensible and he shouldn't have even been in the NBA after Boston. he was a starter on a 60-win team and somehow had .474 true shooting on 11.5% usage and 28.8% turnover rate. he was averaging more turnovers than field goals made per game, which is an all-time achievement in horrible offense. Never forget that the 2011-2012 Thunder reached the finals and started Kendrick Perkins and Thabo Sefolosha over James Harden, and then blew it up for Kevin Martin. Never ever forget
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Mar 11, 2023 08:07
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I wish I could gamble in California. Lakers are +1600 to win the West and +4400 to win the title? That won't last imo and I'm a Kings fan Lakers are 8-3 since losing Westbrook and the Clippers are 2-5 since getting Westbrook, and now the two teams are close in the standings for the first time all year lmao Yossarian-22 fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 08:08
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Yossarian-22 posted:Never forget that the 2011-2012 Thunder reached the finals and started Kendrick Perkins and Thabo Sefolosha over James Harden, and then blew it up for Kevin Martin. Never ever forget Trust The Process
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Mar 11, 2023 12:53
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you know Scott Foster took the Blazers money line.
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Mar 11, 2023 15:10
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I knew that poo poo was going to be weird when Draftkings was offering a profit boost on a Sixers/Wolves W parlay.
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Mar 11, 2023 15:10
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https://streamable.com/soe09h Lol
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Mar 11, 2023 19:37
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mvp
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Mar 11, 2023 19:38
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I didn't even put on the nuggets game until the 4th assuming it was going to be noncompetitive. kind of looks like jokic also assumed that and just didn't attempt any defense there was a moment with about 5 minutes left in the game where it got kind of close and then the spurs hit like 5 straight 3 point attempts, those boys just wanted it more
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Mar 11, 2023 20:01
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yes he chose to not play defense.
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Mar 11, 2023 20:08
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he also chooses to turn into a traffic pylon during the playoffs too
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Mar 11, 2023 20:09
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 Weird stuff
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Mar 11, 2023 20:48
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Defense has always been secondary in MVP voting, writers love their box scores and Jokic is the undefeated box score champ.
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Mar 11, 2023 21:00
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it’s never been “just box scores” tho strange how that became the standard all of a sudden
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Mar 11, 2023 21:45
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it really is heartening tho to see so many people internet wide coming around to ideas I had years ago
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Mar 11, 2023 22:22
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coulda had a mvp vote by now if you started a podcast instead of a thread
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Mar 12, 2023 00:35
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and that isn’t a compliment to euph, every other week I find a new nba voter that makes me mad irl
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Mar 12, 2023 00:36
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it’s getting pretty ugly out there. the writers really hosed up last year and have opened up big worm cans.
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Mar 12, 2023 01:40
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Kings-Suns looking like another insanely high scoring game
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Mar 12, 2023 05:05
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The Sacramento Kings have won 6 of their last 7 road games and just beat the Suns on the road. 40-26 My god
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Mar 12, 2023 05:46
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lol this is the first 40 win season for the Kings since 2005-2006
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Mar 12, 2023 06:01
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mavs...
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Mar 12, 2023 06:45
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more and more peole are saying Box plus/minus (and VORP, which is based on BPM) provides another such example. BPM places different valuations of stats based on what position you play. For centers, an assist is worth nearly twice as much as it is to a guard. Defensive rebounding is also far more valued for centers, and missed shot attempts are penalized more for centers than it is for guards. In other words: BPM massively overvalues everything Jokic is good at. It inflates the value of his assists and rebounds, and rewards him for being hyper-efficient and not attempting a super high volume of shots. The idea that centers are getting twice the credit for assists as guards do is backwards; I would argue that, generally, assists from centers are less valuable, because a considerable volume of them comes from dribble hand-offs, where the center simply dumps the ball to a guard, who then creates the shot. Regardless, the point, once again, is that all of these evaluations are debatable, and all we are really observing is someone’s evaluation. Jokic also ranks first (FIRST!) in the league in defensive box plus/minus, because it’s based on box score stats, which means it heavily weights, you guessed it, rebounding and steals. Jokic also ranks seventh in the league in individual defensive rating, and ninth in defensive win shares. Individual defensive rating, contrary to what some people assume, is not simply your team’s defensive rating when you are on the court. It is an estimate of how many points that particular player allowed per 100 possessions while on the court. Here is an excerpt from Basketball-Reference’s website on how it is calculated: “The core of the Defensive Rating calculation is the concept of the individual Defensive Stop. Stops take into account the instances of a player ending an opposing possession that are tracked in the boxscore (blocks, steals, and defensive rebounds).” Noticing a pattern here? All of these stats are heavily based upon steals and defensive rebounding. Defensive win shares is based heavily upon individual defensive rating. You can find the formula for its calculation here. A common rebuttal I get from people who use these kinds of stats is something to the following effect: “if they’re all saying the same thing, that has to mean something.” Yes, it does mean something – that all of these stats are heavily based upon one another and clearly overvalue the same poo poo. They are essentially Collateralized Debt Obligations. That’s how you get a player who is very, very obviously a barely above average defender being considered one of the best defensive players in the entire league, because he gets a high amount of steals and is an excellent rebounder. Before I go any further, I just want to stress the degree to which these metrics impact perception and voting. In an interview with NBA TV last year, Stan Van Gundy – who has 30 years of NBA experience and all the credibility in the world – said the following: “If you look statistically, he leads [Giannis and Embiid] across the board, all the analytics categories, he’s number one, including defensive box score plus/minus and defensive win shares, he’s ahead of both of those guys. So, throw that defensive argument that people have been trying to use out the window.”
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Mar 12, 2023 07:26
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I agree more with the latter point that defensive rebounding/steals are flawed metrics for measuring defense by centers and that Jokic is a flawed defender. I think weighing assists as being better by centers is accurate insofar as an exceptional passing big like Jokic or Sabonis can avoid getting double teamed in the post or otherwise take advantage of double teams
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Mar 12, 2023 07:32
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jokic isn’t a center tho. that’s the whole point !!! ahhhhhh
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Mar 12, 2023 07:35
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ok even if it should be “more” for a “center” should it be worth loving double ??
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Mar 12, 2023 07:37
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I think the idea is that it's a sort of "value over replacement center" deal, like in baseball a great fielding center fielder means more than a great fielding first baseman. Maybe double is too much but idk, I think that's another reason why Giannis is so great too
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Mar 12, 2023 07:39
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Just on the eye-test alone having Sabonis do dribble handoffs and basically be an automatic screen due to being a huge body or making amazing passes from the low post has been critical to the Kings offense this year going from 24th in the league to 1st
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Mar 12, 2023 07:40
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that doesn’t make any sense to me no
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Mar 12, 2023 07:40
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Goddamn Jokic has looked like poo poo on defense lately. Not even doing what he can with his talent level, full on actively avoiding anything beyond a feeble slap at the ball.
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Mar 12, 2023 07:42
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I hope Jokic is having a good time
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Mar 12, 2023 07:46
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so yeah he’s good at two of the most overrated garbage stats in the game. hooray for advanced stats
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Mar 12, 2023 07:48
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in todays nba I think these “advanced” stats should probably eliminate position adjustments entirely
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Mar 12, 2023 07:51
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Vox Nihili posted:Goddamn Jokic has looked like poo poo on defense lately. Not even doing what he can with his talent level, full on actively avoiding anything beyond a feeble slap at the ball. statistically he’s the best defensive player ever
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Mar 12, 2023 08:43
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euphronius posted:
is this really how they calculate it? lmao
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Mar 12, 2023 12:54
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more and more people are recognizing The end of voter fatigue Later on, I will discuss certain dynamics that have helped Jokic’s case over the previous two seasons, but one interesting dynamic that has made his case possible this season is the demise of the phenomenon known as voter fatigue. Once an understood, but hardly-considered pattern in these types of awards, numerous media members have made a point this year to mention how silly it would be if Jokic doesn’t win the award on the basis of having already won two in a row. I’ll get to the validity of voter fatigue in a second, but one thing that is indisputable is that The War on Voter Fatigue is brand-spanking new. It may have been boiling for a while, but it hit a consensus right now, with Nikola Jokic. Comb through the past several years alone and you will find numerous examples of obvious voter fatigue. After winning back to back MVPs in 2015 and 2016, Steph Curry played 79 games, put up unbelievable numbers, and led his team to 67 wins in 2017, and yet he finished sixth (!) behind Isaiah Thomas and four others in MVP voting that season. In 2018-19, James Harden was almost inarguably better than he was when he won in 2017-18, but finished second in MVP voting to Giannis Antetokounmpo. After winning his second straight MVP in 2020, Antetokounmpo was essentially the exact same player in 2021 as he was in the two previous years, yet was a distant fourth in MVP voting behind Steph Curry and Joel Embiid (and Jokic, obviously), and multiple media members made it a point to mention that his lack of success in the playoffs in the previous two seasons made his case a bit weaker in 2021 – the (lack of) parallels there to Jokic are obvious. Regardless, the point is that the history of the NBA MVP is very clear: you win an MVP, it gets harder for you to win the following year. You win two MVPs in a row, and it’s almost freaking impossible to win three. Hence, why Jordan, Kareem, LeBron, etc. never won three straight. The award has never been a pure meritocracy in terms of going to the empirically best player. Voter fatigue, as well as the narrative surrounding you and your team, have always had enormous impacts on the vote, until now.
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Mar 12, 2023 13:29
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