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Ariamaki posted:They generally have strong side-effects and work best at low sanity: Rodion even has an easy way to keep her SP low! What Is Cast, her default Zayin EGO, gives her a passive that drops her SP whenever anybody dies on either side. This means she'll crater out quickly in multi-wave human fights and be able to reliably Corrode into a string of brutal (if uncontrollable) Fourth Match Flames. Oh, so that's why she panicked that one time in the mirror dungeon. Even using a blunt team with the highest stats I can muster, I'm still hitting roadblocks on the Inquisitor level curve. I know I only have one fight to go before the dungeon, but I'm just gonna take a break for the day and go back to the mirror dungeon.
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Mar 10, 2023 20:55
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Shastahanshah posted:I can't tell if I'm not getting something or if the fights really are just more RNG than Ruina. In case of unfavorable clashes you bust out the defensive dice or EGO, as a rule of thumb. And in a more meta sense, the strategy in this game is less about what you do with your individual sinners (since each of them only gets 3 moves + defense + EGO) and more about your overall team combination and how they play with whatever enemies you're likely to face. And when it comes to the Tingtang man more specifically, he's a bit unreliable as a clasher in the first place despite Shank's power in that regard because he's got 2 attacks with just a single coin. Best way to try and alleviate this is to do your best to get the throat slits and mutilates out of your skill cycle by using them if you get one-sided attacks. He's a big damage dealer and excellent at killing enemies, but yes, he has a notable weakness in that he's kinda meh at clashing unless he gets Shank or you feel like gambling on Mutilate. If that causes you to lose a lot of fights, you might want to swap him for a more reliable clasher.
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Mar 10, 2023 23:40
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Honestly I do feel like single coin attacks are just. Bad. Which makes Base Ishmael terrible despite having a great EGO, unique debuff among bases and being the perfect type for Chapter 3 AKA the current endgame. They really need to wonder about it. On contrast, I feel like people massively underrate Base Hong Lu because of the Kurokumo and Tingtang memes. He has a "if not damaged, 2 extra power" which activates turn 1 and Whirlwind is just insane against Blunt weak enemies. His only issue is having the worst EGO in terms of cost.
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Mar 11, 2023 00:01
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Single coin attacks that can be conditionally very powerful like Mutilate can be useful in clashes against highly potent enemy attacks that have target numbers you'd have trouble reaching with multi-die attacks if you have high sanity, but yeah, even then they're obviously a gamble. Otherwise they're more for utility than winning clashes.
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Mar 11, 2023 00:15
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One thing I appreciate about Gregor's Legerdemain in dungeons: the whole "halve your end-of-fight Sins and carry that much into the next fight" thing interacts nicely with the 3 Gluttony 1 Sloth cost. Just get a team with high Green counts (many of the three-000 characters count) and at least one charcter with 2x Sloth or more in their deck, then use Sloth twice in an early fight and at least once more in every fight after. Ta-dah, you can "carry" Legerdemain through the whole dungeon, keeping it ready for when you need it. Or, you know, so you can Elixir-hoard the EGO and go through the whole thing without ever touching it, one of the two.  The other AOE EGO are way less reasonable cost-wise, so that's much harder to do outside of Legerdemain. Gives Gregor a nice little niche.
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Mar 11, 2023 00:58
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Theantero posted:In case of unfavorable clashes you bust out the defensive dice or EGO, as a rule of thumb. And in a more meta sense, the strategy in this game is less about what you do with your individual sinners (since each of them only gets 3 moves + defense + EGO) and more about your overall team combination and how they play with whatever enemies you're likely to face. And when it comes to the Tingtang man more specifically, he's a bit unreliable as a clasher in the first place despite Shank's power in that regard because he's got 2 attacks with just a single coin. Best way to try and alleviate this is to do your best to get the throat slits and mutilates out of your skill cycle by using them if you get one-sided attacks. He's a big damage dealer and excellent at killing enemies, but yes, he has a notable weakness in that he's kinda meh at clashing unless he gets Shank or you feel like gambling on Mutilate. If that causes you to lose a lot of fights, you might want to swap him for a more reliable clasher. I'm not sure the team building makes a huge difference yet, I didn't really get how the resource stuff worked and it usually worked out with a few exceptions. Defensive dice just seem kind of bad to me though, like a 2-12 dodge doesn't really seem that much better than a 6-10 attack. Maybe it's just a question of encounter design though, since this is all from the first wave of content and PM hasn't had time to get any feedback on stuff. I did think Ruina was basically perfect though so maybe I'm just a bit down that it's gotten simpler.
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Mar 11, 2023 01:12
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Shastahanshah posted:I'm not sure the team building makes a huge difference yet, I didn't really get how the resource stuff worked and it usually worked out with a few exceptions. clashes give the winner +3% damage for every interaction contained within. a 2 die vs 2 die, assuming a tie and two wins, gets +9% damage bonus. I've had clashes go up to 10 before. Defensive dice don't count as clashes, and won't give a damage bonus. That said, most are pretty bad right now, though mariachi sinclair gets harder to stagger on evade win, and N Corp Meursault gains protection on combat start + his counter skill is Red, which is nice to activate passives.
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Mar 11, 2023 01:26
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DuoRogue posted:clashes give the winner +3% damage for every interaction contained within. a 2 die vs 2 die, assuming a tie and two wins, gets +9% damage bonus. I've had clashes go up to 10 before. Defensive dice don't count as clashes, and won't give a damage bonus. There are a few other Defenses with side-effects now, not sure if it had always been the case but I believe somebody (another Sinclair?) gets a Slash damage bonus next turn on using their defensive coin. GiantRockFromSpace posted:Honestly I do feel like single coin attacks are just. Bad. Which makes Base Ishmael terrible despite having a great EGO, unique debuff among bases and being the perfect type for Chapter 3 AKA the current endgame. They really need to wonder about it. Single coin attacks are actually quite good as long as you're clashing with them / using them one-sidedly in an intelligent manner. There's definitely a risk involved, and you obviously don't want to throw your mono-coin attack into their 3 or 4 parter, but when used correctly they can do a lot of work. Base Ishmael and base Heathcliff just carried a friend of mine more or less single-handedly through all of Chapter 3's worst pre-dungeon fights. And yes, base Hong Lu is quite solid, especially because his EGO has such a bad cost for a reason: I put together a team composition the other day using Hong Lu, Faust, and Gregor to combine all the current AoE ZAYINs and the result was unstoppable.
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Mar 11, 2023 01:31
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hong lu's ego is AOE blunt damage so it just ravages n corp guys
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Mar 11, 2023 02:03
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Can someone explain what resonance and absonance* actually do? Also, for passives that work off absonance, what number do I put in the slot for purposes of calculation? *"absolute resonance" is a mouthful
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Mar 11, 2023 02:19
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okay I quite like kurokomo ryoshu but her second uptie is expensive and I'm still hoping for LCCB Rodion to fill out my default team "just replace mariachi Sinclair with rodion when you get her" no
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Mar 11, 2023 02:24
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Quackles posted:Can someone explain what resonance and absonance* actually do? Also, for passives that work off absonance, what number do I put in the slot for purposes of calculation? Resonance increased the damage of each subsequent skill of that colour so the last skill gets the biggest boost, absolute resonance (3 in a row linked) empowers all skills of that colour equal to the final resonance instead of increasing for each skill individually. So if you have 3 skills resonating with a different skill between them, skill 3 gets more benefit than skill 2 whivh gets more benefit than skill 1. However if all 3 are in a line, all of them get the benefit equal to skill 3, and further resonance, chain broken or unbroken, also increase the shared maximum benefit for all skills of that colour.
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Mar 11, 2023 02:25
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So it's just damage... OK. And how are passives like Hong Lu's EGO passive "Ripple" calculated? If I chain 3 Gloom skills in a row, does an ally heal 3 SP at turn start, or 6, or what?quote:Ripple
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Mar 11, 2023 02:30
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resonance gives you a few tiny irrelevant percentage points of damage bonus, starting at 0% for the first skill, then 4%, 6%, 8%, etc further in the chain. (this reddit post, mentioned in this thread before, goes into details on the combat formula) absolute resonance is the same except everything gets the highest bonus, so instead of 0 4 6 8 you'd have +8% to all the matching-color skills more importantly, it also works to activate passives and support skills, which each a minimum resonance to trigger them. for example, LCB Faust's passive is "deal +10% damage against units with negative status effects", and needs pride resonance x2 to activate. that means the passive will take effect on turns where you use at least two dark-blue pride skills. identity passives like this are only active for one turn. efb
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Mar 11, 2023 02:31
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Quackles posted:So it's just damage... OK. And how are passives like Hong Lu's EGO passive "Ripple" calculated? If I chain 3 Gloom skills in a row, does an ally heal 3 SP at turn start, or 6, or what? 3 SP, 4 with 4 5 with 5 etc. It basically heals equal to the number of Gloom you have resonating if you activate absolute resonance, although you only need a chain of 3 in a row to start it. If something scales differently, they will directly state the formula for it. So for example some passives have (wrath resonance divided by 3) as their calculation of the benefit.
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Mar 11, 2023 02:35
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Ah, OK. And I assume that if it's /2 etc, it rounds down. Got it.
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Mar 11, 2023 02:40
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theyve stated that res and a-res are going to impact clashes in some capacity, so theyre more than just damage, but i also doubt it'll be particularly noticable. Ariamaki posted:Single coin attacks are actually quite good as long as you're clashing with them / using them one-sidedly in an intelligent manner. I don't mind single-coin attacks in theory, but when your single coin is some bullshit like 6+16 or 5+25 and all it takes is a single tails flip to make it worthless, then I have issues.
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Mar 11, 2023 03:24
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Mutilate is really funny, though. 
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Mar 11, 2023 03:37
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Mutilate is even worse with that, since the reuse coin (read: the one hitting a second target) has +100% damage on Heads, so getting Tails on the second Mutilate is basically -50 power. But hey, if you have 45 SP when you start, you have a 49% chance of getting both Heads in a row! (Tingtang is fun but I've decided to stop using it, for blood pressure reasons) On a funny note, the second Mutilate is always unopposed but it can still trip defensive actions, including Counters, including the mutated Inquisitors that use your attacks right back. I discovered this by accident but got unlucky, so I'm sure at least one player's Tingtang Gangleader has taken a 60 power coin straight to the dome from those guys.
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Mar 11, 2023 04:08
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lol presumed ch3 boss spoilers: just pulled headless ichthys as my mirror dungeon final boss for the first time and got completely drat demolished, first actual mirror loss got it down to literally 35hp but mariachi sinclair just couldn't get us over the finish line fun fact: when you pull in your leftover sinners in a mirror dungeon, the boss doesn't stay at its damaged hp like library of ruina, it heals up to full
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Mar 11, 2023 04:38
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frankly irritated that i couldn't finish it with generic Rodion and Ryoshu, that would have been satisfying and also funny
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Mar 11, 2023 04:41
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Fighting that drat Apple Boss in the Mirror Dungeon and having Yuri die over and over again and seeing her head on that stalk is a kind of drat nightmare.
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Mar 11, 2023 05:09
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Quackles posted:Ah, OK. And I assume that if it's /2 etc, it rounds down. Got it. Big thing everybody forgot to mention: As of this patch, getting enough Resonance also directly improves skill power, which can boost your final value in clashes and also boosts damage further. I also do believe the damage ratio from the linked post is now wrong, and the real value is much better, as they updated and improved a lot of the smaller percent values this patch. Ariamaki fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 05:14
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KobunFan posted:Fighting that drat Apple Boss in the Mirror Dungeon and having Yuri die over and over again and seeing her head on that stalk is a kind of drat nightmare. Project Moon Megathread: a kind of drat nightmare
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Mar 11, 2023 05:47
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Google Jeb Bush posted:lol that's not the boss of ch3 but it is, from the previews they've posted on twitter, the boss of the daily thread farming stage. so get ready to see it a lot
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Mar 11, 2023 06:58
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:that's not the boss of ch3 but it is, from the previews they've posted on twitter, the boss of the daily thread farming stage. Being able to plan for it will help a bit imo.
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Mar 11, 2023 07:03
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Speaking of the Ch. 3 boss, boy howdy do I regret bringing N. Corp Rodion in my first attempt. 2nd attempt went better with base Sinclair, Meursault, Heathcliff, and G. Corp Gregor and Outis, but losing Gregor right before the 2nd phase pretty much doomed me. gotta grind up the mirror dungeon for more EXP tickets since no one was above level 25, I guess
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Mar 11, 2023 07:44
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I'm baffled by people claiming they did the chapter 3 boss at 20 or less because I just redid the whole dungeon to bring a 2nd team that's non-blunt, fire, bleed and they still can't win clashes in the first phase so when I reach the 2nd they're all weakened and die in the opening turns I'm running Blade Lineage Yang Si and Outis, L Corp Faust, Shi Don, G Corp Gregor and they're all level 22.
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Mar 11, 2023 09:09
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i feel like there’s a big gap between people who have played LoR and not because when I did the boss I got hit maybe 3 times total but I also realized how goddamn brutal it would be for people either A) not rolling a lot for IDs/ EGOs B) people not used to manipulating speed dice order so you get unopposed attacks off before clashes in order to stagger or break early
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Mar 11, 2023 09:13
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MotU posted:i feel like there’s a big gap between people who have played LoR and not because when I did the boss I got hit maybe 3 times total but I also realized how goddamn brutal it would be for people either A) not rolling a lot for IDs/ EGOs B) people not used to manipulating speed dice order so you get unopposed attacks off before clashes in order to stagger or break early Yeah, I'm currently at the very end of Star of the City in my Ruina playthrough and I will say that experience and knowledge has been invaluable across the board, in all sorts of ways. Where and when to clash, speed manipulation and ordering, taking riskier clashes with resistant characters, reading every gimmick and passive very carefully... Lakbay posted:I'm baffled by people claiming they did the chapter 3 boss at 20 or less because I just redid the whole dungeon to bring a 2nd team that's non-blunt, fire, bleed and they still can't win clashes in the first phase so when I reach the 2nd they're all weakened and die in the opening turns Are they all fully uptied? That honestly makes more of a difference than levels. For what it's worth I beat the entire dungeon except the boss with a group in the mid-teens, and then farmed some XP tickets and did the boss first try with a team that was 23 sharp across the board: Liu Gregor, Liu Meursault, Base Heathcliff, LCCB Rodion, L Corp Faust. As others have said, you can bring Burn and Bleed as long as you make sure it expires before the turn starts, so try to avoid +Count on Burn and only apply Bleed when the boss has attacks left to use it up on. Ariamaki fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 09:26
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MotU posted:i feel like there’s a big gap between people who have played LoR and not because when I did the boss I got hit maybe 3 times total but I also realized how goddamn brutal it would be for people either A) not rolling a lot for IDs/ EGOs B) people not used to manipulating speed dice order so you get unopposed attacks off before clashes in order to stagger or break early Run that by me again. Unopposed attacks fire before clashes, and not in absolute speed die order?
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Mar 11, 2023 09:52
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Quackles posted:Run that by me again. Unopposed attacks fire before clashes, and not in absolute speed die order? So for example let's say you have Enemy <Speed 2> Sinner 1 <Speed 5> Sinner 2 <Speed 4> Sinner 3 <Speed 3> If you target the enemy with Sinner 1, then Sinner 2, then Sinner 3, it will Clash with Sinner 3, but Sinner 1 and 2 will attack before that, unopposed. Clashes will happen with the last attack selected, as long as the speed of the attack is high enough to redirect it (Obviously this only works in Manual Targeting Battles)
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Mar 11, 2023 10:00
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TeeQueue posted:Mutilate is really funny, though. hong lu seems to be having a great time during it, anyway 
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Mar 11, 2023 11:52
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Ariamaki posted:Are they all fully uptied? That honestly makes more of a difference than levels. They're fully uptied except for Shi Don who's only at uptie II. I also beat everything in LoR except Keter Realization so I think I just don't understand the quirks of LC's combat system.
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Mar 11, 2023 14:09
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Selecting clashes sucks in this game, it's way harder to tell what's going where. Makes me just want to smash the auto button every time.
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Mar 11, 2023 14:20
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There's a little 3-arrows button in the upper left for Abnormality fights at least that shows where everything's going. It's come in handy for me.
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Mar 11, 2023 14:24
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TeeQueue posted:There's a little 3-arrows button in the upper left for Abnormality fights at least that shows where everything's going. It's come in handy for me. Oh yeah I use it, but I have a much harder time seeing them clearly, especially in fights where you've got a bunch of enemies with multiple actions each. Like I mean actually seeing, with the way the lines fade out as they approach their origins. And then when you click and drag from one of the icons at the bottom of the screen your view zooms in and shifts all the way to the right so it becomes tough to see where the arrows are landing among your characters. I've found clicking and dragging on the background to move the camera closer to the ground makes it a little easier to see the arrow paths at least.
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Mar 11, 2023 14:46
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Haha what the hell I lost a Kromer attempt at level 23 but the game bugged and counted it as a win and I got credits rolled and chapter cleared. I guess I'll take it
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Mar 11, 2023 14:58
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Is Tomorrow's Fortune (the ego gift) bugged, or do I just not understand when it's supposed to proc? I chose it early in one of my mirror runs but didn't actually get any extra choices at any point in the run. Also how safe is this thread for someone who's only really played limbus and doesn't want to get spoiled on library
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Mar 11, 2023 16:44
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PhysicsFrenzy posted:Is Tomorrow's Fortune (the ego gift) bugged, or do I just not understand when it's supposed to proc? I chose it early in one of my mirror runs but didn't actually get any extra choices at any point in the run. It's not bugged, there's a fourth one. And you have to swipe to the left to move them to see it. I figured this out by accident. As for how safe it is... probably safe as long as you don't look back. This is basically LimbusChat now.
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Mar 11, 2023 17:03
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