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What do you mean by 30 or 40 split sorry? 40 fps is acceptable, I guess; Horizon Forbidden West is almost a whole different game if you enable VRR, whether it's the performance mode (which fluctuates between 60-100 fps iirc) or the visual preference mode, which is more like 40 fps. Another topic entirely but the VRR performance mode in forbidden west is one of the most impressive technical achievement I've seen on consoles in a long time. Regarding frame doubling/tripling- I've never tried it, does it help? What are the upsides and downsides? I don't get how providing 3 of the exact same frame is different from displaying a single frame over 3 intervals. I'm sure it's not that simple though since clearly it's being used. One thing is for sure: the earlier we can get everyone on VRR the better it will be for the industry. I don't get how people live without VRR at this point. Most PS5 enjoyers don't even know what it does! They don't understand that VRR can take a game from 60 fps and sometimes increase the fps you're actually receiving by 50% or more. It's a total game changer on the PS5, but it's very much a "you don't know what you're missing until you see it for yourself" situation so the community underrates it constantly. Taima fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 16:10
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Taima posted:What do you mean by 30 or 40 split sorry? meaning the choice offered to the player would be 30 or 40, rather than 30 or 60, with the 40 option only being available to users with 120hz TVs frame tripling is just a clean way to offer smooth 40fps on TVs that lack VRR support
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Mar 11, 2023 16:14
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Thanks. Right I get that re: frame triping. What I'm asking is like, why it works, I mean you're sending the same frame? Just multiple times? How does that help vs simply holding the initial frame for a longer period? Just asking so I can learn  my feeling is that frame tripling would be like a poor man's VRR, but maybe it's better than VRR? Curious to know more about the tech. Does it produce the soap opera effect?Rinkles posted:Plus some screens have a minimum fps requirement above 40 for VRR. Good point. Taima fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 16:16
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Plus some screens have a minimum fps requirement above 40 for VRR.
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Mar 11, 2023 16:16
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Taima posted:Thanks. Right I get that re: frame triping. What I'm asking is like, why it works, I mean you're sending the same frame? Just multiple times? How does that help vs simply holding the initial frame for a longer period? without VRR you can't really "hold" a frame for longer than one frame interval, the output must be 120hz regardless of how many frames are rendered, so to output 40fps something in the chain has to triple up the frames that could be the game manually submitting the same frame 3 times, or submitting it once with 1/3rd rate vsync so the lower level parts of the system submit it 3 times, it doesn't really matter ether way you end up with a 120hz stream with each frame repeated 3 times repiv fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 16:20
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Taima posted:
The visual quality trade-offs between 60 and 30fps can be huge, 30 fps gives you twice as long to render each frame. I think that all these 60fps games on console are a quirk of the last-gen consoles hanging on way too long somehow. The can only offer the resolution/ frame rate choice if the CPU load is so low that 60fps is possible, once we start targeting current-gen only we may get to a place where even PC CPUs are not fast enough, because a single core of a 13900k is not twice as fast as a single core of an Xbox Series S.
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Mar 11, 2023 16:30
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Twerk from Home posted:The visual quality trade-offs between 60 and 30fps can be huge, 30 fps gives you twice as long to render each frame. I think that all these 60fps games on console are a quirk of the last-gen consoles hanging on way too long somehow. fortnite is a notable exception in shipping all the fancy next-gen UE5 features with a hard 60fps target, even on Series S, but i have my doubts that third party titles using that tech are going to hit that mark
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Mar 11, 2023 16:35
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HUB has a 4070ti vs 7900xt showdown. I don't particularly care either way now but I found this chart interesting The averag of all games is within 4-5fps I think but it's pretty funny to see it this way that the card you choose can be 30% faster or slower in the new game that you might want to play and you've no way of knowing in advance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSy9Qy7sw0U
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Mar 11, 2023 16:44
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Rinkles posted:Plus some screens have a minimum fps requirement above 40 for VRR. do the consoles VRR implementations not have LFC? if not then yeah, outputting 40fps-in-120hz is safer than outputting VRR at a range that might be too low for some TVs e: apparently the PS5 VRR only goes down to 48hz natively, though it's technically possible for games to implement LFC manually (insomniacs games do it) repiv fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 17:03
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They say it's a toss up at 1440p but the RT testing only used FSR on both cards. This was supposedly to allow an apples-to-apples comparison but that's basically irrelevant for a gamer. They're going to enable the best upscaling their card supports, so the tests should really have employed DLSS on the 4070Ti.
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Mar 11, 2023 17:10
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That most likely would not have moved the needle more than a couple percent in the relevant games and probably 0% in the 50-game average.
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Mar 11, 2023 17:14
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mobby_6kl posted:The averag of all games is within 4-5fps I think but it's pretty funny to see it this way that the card you choose can be 30% faster or slower in the new game that you might want to play and you've no way of knowing in advance. Its whether RT was used or not for a given game. Its not to surprising that when RT is used a 4070 can be faster and that when pure raster is used instead a 7900xt will usually be faster by similar margins.
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Mar 11, 2023 17:14
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Most of the big swings, both ways, usually aren't due to the game. The 7900 XT is only 4% faster on average when you remove the RT results. So there's a lot of blow trading even ignoring RT, and just a lot of results where they're basically tied.
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Mar 11, 2023 17:16
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One of the more interesting results from the whole vid was that Fortnite RT performance was just as good on the 7900XT as the 4070Ti.
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Mar 11, 2023 17:22
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ConanTheLibrarian posted:One of the more interesting results from the whole vid was that Fortnite RT performance was just as good on the 7900XT as the 4070Ti. those results are surprising, the 4070Ti has a performance lead with software RT, but takes a big hit when enabling hardware RT which brings it in line with the 7900XT, which performs about the same on either path fortnite uses software mode on the consoles to play to the strengths of RDNA2, but in this case RDNA3 seems to not particularly care either way (so you may as well use the higher quality hardware mode) repiv fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 17:24
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repiv posted:is that software RT or hardware RT though, fortnite offers the choice and the latter has better image quality Hardware RT. RDNA3 just seems to do rather well with Lumen, even with Hardware RT enabled. It makes sense when you consider that Epic is basically tailoring Lumen to be just the right mix of RT and rasterization for the PS5/XSX.
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Mar 11, 2023 17:31
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speaking of tay racing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrRmQhaxtF4
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Mar 11, 2023 17:39
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The 7900 XT is only 4% faster on average when you remove the RT results. So there's a lot of blow trading even ignoring RT, and just a lot of results where they're basically tied. Usually not the 30% swings like the guy was talking about though which was the point. Huge swings like that are outliers you can safely ignore most of the time, because well...they're outliers.
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Mar 11, 2023 18:07
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If PS5 games go back to 30 I'm out. I don't know what it is, but 30fps looks way worse (more jittery) on the PS5 than on the PS4. At first I thought I had just gotten used to higher FPS between shelving my PS4 and managing to get a PS5, but then I actually dusted off the PS4 just to check and while 30fps still would never be my choice it didn't gently caress my eyes the way it does on PS5. Tried two different displays, different cables, no loving clue what that is about.
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Mar 11, 2023 21:37
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they're probably going to target 48fps for vrr 40fps also gets targeted in part because it's between 30 and 60 in terms of frametime (16.6, 25.0, and 33.3ms) ironic that i still basically have to wait for someone to do a review of a ps5 game before i can figure out which performance/quality/vrr mode and hdr settings to use for the game to play as well as possible. starting to become even dumber than pc games
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Mar 11, 2023 21:45
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kliras posted:they're probably going to target 48fps for vrr targeting the lower bound of the VRR range is asking for trouble, any drops at all will knock you out of VRR then insomniac has shown that it's possible to do LFC manually and get around the 48hz limit, spiderman on PS5 has a 40fps mode which runs with frame-doubled LFC if VRR is enabled in order to stay in the 48-120hz sweet spot ideally sony would just support LFC at the system level so every engine doesn't have to re-invent the wheel repiv fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 21:54
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We have decent upscaling methods now, FSR 2 is actually good, and keeps getting improved.. I wish they'd just use that and keep 60 as the target. It seems like every generation, 60 FPS slips away after being promised.
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Mar 11, 2023 22:01
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Sorry, what’s LFC?
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Mar 11, 2023 22:05
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Rinkles posted:Sorry, what’s LFC? UFCs younger and dumber brother.
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Mar 11, 2023 22:06
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Rinkles posted:Sorry, what’s LFC? low framerate compenation, where you double/triple/quadruple framerates that are too low for a VRR panel to display natively in order to push them up into the range it can display if your panel only goes down to 48hz and the content is running at 40fps, you repeat every frame and send the display 80hz instead
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Mar 11, 2023 22:06
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GhostDog posted:If PS5 games go back to 30 I'm out. I don't know what it is, but 30fps looks way worse (more jittery) on the PS5 than on the PS4. At first I thought I had just gotten used to higher FPS between shelving my PS4 and managing to get a PS5, but then I actually dusted off the PS4 just to check and while 30fps still would never be my choice it didn't gently caress my eyes the way it does on PS5. Tried two different displays, different cables, no loving clue what that is about. pc gamings back baby
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Mar 11, 2023 22:09
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also the resident evil 4 remake doesn't come with dlss. guess capcom are only ever gonna bother with amd tech unless nvidia moneyhats them or something. guess i'll be cheering for amd to make good on fsr 2.3 for street fighter 6 and the next monster hunter in classic capcom fashion, they shipped it with both the option of fsr 2 and fsr 1, because graphics settings aren't confusing enough to the average gamer already
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Mar 11, 2023 22:09
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there's already a mod framework that plugs DLSS/DLAA into any of the RE Engine games to date, it'll probably get updated for RE4make https://streamable.com/16tfyw for the earlier games which didn't have FSR2 either it also adds FSR2 support RE Engines stock TAA is really poor on PC (for some reason it's better on consoles) so just about anything else is an improvement https://old.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/113477m/resident_evil_dlssdlaafsr2xess_vs_built_in_aa/ repiv fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 22:12
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repiv posted:there's already a mod framework that plugs DLSS/DLAA into any of the RE Engine games to date, it'll probably get updated for RE4make It doesn't work particularly well unfortunately. It's decent enough for Village, but for RE2/3 it falls apart with any reflective surface and exhibits significant specular aliasing. In some basic scenes it can be stunning with the level of clarity improvement, but you gotta always see these things in motion. In general I've found similar issues with these types of mods, such as the FSR2 mods for DLSS-games. They can work OK in some scenes, but in others they poo poo the bed. Happy_Misanthrope fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 11, 2023 |
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Mar 11, 2023 23:00
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well that's unfortunate, if i ever actually get around to playing the REmakes hopefully the native FSR2 implementation fares better than their TAA
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Mar 11, 2023 23:03
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repiv posted:well that's unfortunate, if i ever actually get around to playing the REmakes
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Mar 11, 2023 23:05
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The consoles are fine as cheap entry level gaming boxes - I'm only concerned about the series S becoming more and more of an albatross with the recent BG3 rumors. Lol if Starfield runs like dogshit on it It's not like PC games are covering themselves in glory with how prevalent shader stutter is these days Steam Deck ftw
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Mar 11, 2023 23:09
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the new fortnite season still has shader stutter, it was brutal the first time i dropped into the big city come on epic
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Mar 11, 2023 23:46
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repiv posted:the new fortnite season still has shader stutter, it was brutal the first time i dropped into the big city Yeah it's terrible, but they have further improvements to make in this area.
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Mar 12, 2023 00:42
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i long for the day when i open fortnite and it spends 4 hours compiling shaders for the ten thousand different cosmetics that are in the game now it'll be worth it
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Mar 12, 2023 01:15
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shrike82 posted:The consoles are fine as cheap entry level gaming boxes - I'm only concerned about the series S becoming more and more of an albatross with the recent BG3 rumors. Lol if Starfield runs like dogshit on it it wasn't a rumour, one of the larian guys said it publicly.
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Mar 12, 2023 01:24
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:It doesn't work particularly well unfortunately. It's decent enough for Village, but for RE2/3 it falls apart with any reflective surface and exhibits significant specular aliasing. In some basic scenes it can be stunning with the level of clarity improvement, but you gotta always see these things in motion. In the Digital Foundry video on RE2 for PC, Alexander Battaglia suggested enabling super sampling in the control panel for Nvidia or Virtual Super Resolution for AMD, then using FSR1 Quality mode. Virtual 5120x2880 combined with FSR1 Quality ends up being about the same resolution as UHD and it helps bypass the sub-par TAA and terrible sharpening filter in those games that you can't turn off. It also helps in RE3 and Village an equal amount. RE7 has such heavy post-processing that it really doesn't matter much. Luckily RE4's FSR2 implementation actually seems pretty good. The game in general looks significantly better than any of those games and doesn't really run much worse than the DX12 versions of those games.
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Mar 12, 2023 01:48
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GhostDog posted:If PS5 games go back to 30 I'm out. I don't know what it is, but 30fps looks way worse (more jittery) on the PS5 than on the PS4. At first I thought I had just gotten used to higher FPS between shelving my PS4 and managing to get a PS5, but then I actually dusted off the PS4 just to check and while 30fps still would never be my choice it didn't gently caress my eyes the way it does on PS5. Tried two different displays, different cables, no loving clue what that is about. Jon Pod Van Damm fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Mar 12, 2023 |
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Mar 12, 2023 03:58
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yeah yeah MLID but this was a super interesting video, he has good guests sometimes. The one with the "anonymous server engineer" recently was interesting too imo, but this one is gold almost straight through and it's a 2.5 hour video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvjb8HPZbZU
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Mar 12, 2023 06:08
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pyrotek posted:In the Digital Foundry video on RE2 for PC, Alexander Battaglia suggested enabling super sampling in the control panel for Nvidia or Virtual Super Resolution for AMD, then using FSR1 Quality mode. Virtual 5120x2880 combined with FSR1 Quality ends up being about the same resolution as UHD and it helps bypass the sub-par TAA and terrible sharpening filter in those games that you can't turn off. It also helps in RE3 and Village an equal amount. RE7 has such heavy post-processing that it really doesn't matter much. Something to bear in mind whenever I upgrade my 3060, but in my case and what I gather for the majority of the audience interested in those DLSS mods for the RE series, they don't have the hardware to run at native 4k, and 5K + FSR quality is basically the same load. So that's a method to get maybe better than native 4K quality which is good, but not really viable if you can't get the performance at native 4k to begin with. The bigger issue these mods hope to resolve is the interlaced mode in those games, while better than the DX11 version, still ends up amplifying the weak TAA as native even more. And they do do that - but they fall apart with certain surfaces unfortunately. Hopefully they can be improved. quote:Luckily RE4's FSR2 implementation actually seems pretty good. The game in general looks significantly better than any of those games and doesn't really run much worse than the DX12 versions of those games. Yeah big improvement.
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Mar 12, 2023 06:38
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