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I think I recall when I played and was trying to do transfers the workers would just all get off the bus then all get back on and go back to the original station and do that loop until they hit the 5 hours and gave up. I tried doing only buses that pick up or drop off at a station but that didn't work either for some reason and then I think I ran into the issue of stations being flooded with students/civilians so there wasn't any room for the workers to queue etc.
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Mar 11, 2023 12:00
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You would presumably want to turn off picking up people at the transfer station for the feeder lines, and you should definitely turn off students, passengers, and tourists at your worker stations unless you have a lot of slack capacity in them.
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Mar 11, 2023 12:03
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Oh yeah and the whole gravel sucks cause it has to be flat ground and only occurs in mountains so I spent hours slowly leveling mountains the free way
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Mar 11, 2023 13:24
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Gravel can appear anywhere. Maybe on custom maps it’s just in mountains
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Mar 11, 2023 13:25
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If you can see rock flats, or a patch of land that refuses to take a farm, it's probably gravel.
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Mar 11, 2023 13:43
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You also don’t need gravel “purity” to be that high at all.
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Mar 11, 2023 14:20
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Also the quarries need to be on the patch but are quite small, and yeah you only need one or two to produce quite a lot of gravel. Truck stone from the quarries and into the gravel processor. I'm assuming with the garbage patch they're going to make gravel a byproduct of a bunch of stuff.
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Mar 11, 2023 14:28
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Oh gosh. Any good maps anyone knows about?
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Mar 11, 2023 15:52
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Imho use the map generator to produce a flat map with some rivers. Generate a couple of maps until you find coal and gravel near a Russian border. Start your first city there to learn the ropes. You can start on a map with elevation later when you aren’t struggling with the games mechanics Imho of course
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Mar 11, 2023 15:55
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I enjoy these: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198327750730/myworkshopfiles/?appid=784150 Rossokhov is probably easier, Roysk only has some resources on the middle island so you need to figure out how to get there before you can set up some industries, but they have interesting terrain, good water access, and resources in interesting places that encourage infrastructure development.
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Mar 11, 2023 16:14
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I need to go make a list of good ones again because I’m very picky. I’m currently using this, like it a lot. Good mix of challenging trrrain and flat areas. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2874493711
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Mar 11, 2023 17:39
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Just noticed that in my current long save that my big city is *very slightly* off the grid in a way I can't align large buildings perfectly to roads and it's absolutely killing me.
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Mar 13, 2023 00:46
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Anime Store Adventure posted:Just noticed that in my current long save that my big city is *very slightly* off the grid in a way I can't align large buildings perfectly to roads and it's absolutely killing me. soviet verisimilitude
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Mar 13, 2023 01:07
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So I watched some videos, bought this game, played all the tutorials, started a game on realistic because I'm a massive idiot, and after I got hosed by all the stuff like "construction office cannot source same material from 2 buildings", "buses from office take foreign workers to construction sites that have no materials, instead to those with materials and mechanism" and built wind power, but found out there was absolutely no wind in 3 months despite rains and such. Now I'm stuck with oil power plant in which nobody wants to work. I have bus stop in my village, bus stop right next to power plant, there is bus line setup between the two (get in & out at both), and there are 60 passengers waiting at the bus stop in village, but no workers. I have no idea where those passengers want to go, because the only bus goes to power plant, but nobody goes there. Of course there are 50 workers chilling at half built bar waiting for some concrete or something, and everyone bitching that there is no electricity. How do I make those idiots work at the power plant? Why are there people at the bus stop that doesn't go anywhere except the power plant? Overall this game could use some basic UI like "show range of power substation", because I would like to see where it can reach, not only what already built things it can reach, or show that this sewage pipe needs another poo poo elevator to flow. But thank god at least there are 12 different types of power lines, that's the important stuff 
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Mar 13, 2023 09:56
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commando in tophat posted:So I watched some videos, bought this game, played all the tutorials, started a game on realistic because I'm a massive idiot, and after I got hosed by all the stuff like "construction office cannot source same material from 2 buildings", "buses from office take foreign workers to construction sites that have no materials, instead to those with materials and mechanism" and built wind power, but found out there was absolutely no wind in 3 months despite rains and such. As I recall, the tutorials are hastily thrown together garbage. As far as starting on realistic, oof, ouch. You're diving into Hard Mode head first. For your worker problem, you can specify how many (if any!) workers you want to allow in walking distance. Workers are "normally" supplied by vehicles that stop at bus stops, but if you're building something and have plenty of spare labor it's not the worst thing. In your case, you probably want to reduce it to 0 until the concrete arrives; I sometimes split construction yard duties so that one is dedicated to personnel; for very large projects, it usually makes more sense to allow a lot of the material to show up first. Make sure you adjust the maximum number of workers for your buildings too; you don't need 50 doctors, unless you need an employment sink. You can turn off whether the bus stop accepts passengers (or students!) if you have nowhere for them to go, so they don't clog it up. If you click on the people there, it will show you what need they're vainly seeking. There's a ruler you can use as a tool, but as far as power substations go, they also show distance to planned building shadows, so it might make sense to set down your cousins then set down the power to ensure everything is covered. Redundancy is never bad here. For the poo poo pipes, well ... You have a point there. I sort of enjoy them as another layer of difficulty and planning, but they're really a pain a lot of the time. In particular, if you haven't yet, make sure you get the sewage switch station from the workshop; it's the same concept as the water based one, but it's a life saver to add in places while laying down the sewer system, so that you can expand your system with larger pipes if you need to. Make sure you turn the topographic map on too, it makes a huge difference for planning. Volmarias fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Mar 13, 2023 |
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Mar 13, 2023 10:14
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you're having the ideal WRSR new player experience!commando in tophat posted:Now I'm stuck with oil power plant in which nobody wants to work. I have bus stop in my village, bus stop right next to power plant, there is bus line setup between the two (get in & out at both), and there are 60 passengers waiting at the bus stop in village, but no workers. I have no idea where those passengers want to go, because the only bus goes to power plant, but nobody goes there. Of course there are 50 workers chilling at half built bar waiting for some concrete or something, and everyone bitching that there is no electricity. How do I make those idiots work at the power plant? Why are there people at the bus stop that doesn't go anywhere except the power plant? Transit in this game doesn't work the way you assume it would in normal games. It's more like workers are a resource like gravel or something than the behavior of e.g. the cims in Skylines. "Passengers" waiting at a transit stop are not there to work, they're there looking for places to go shopping or to the movies or some other leisure/nonwork activity. They look around their neighboring area to satisfy all their needs and if there's something they can't satisfy but there is a transit stop, they try to go to the transit stop in hopes of finding something there that will take them to somewhere else that does have something that will satisfy them. They don't really 'know' what destinations are available from that transit station, they just go there. For now I would suggest deselecting "Passengers" and "Students" at your bus stop and just leaving Workers selected, if the issue is related to there just not being enough room at the bus stop for workers, that will help. But also keep in mind that workers may not go to the bus stop looking for work if they already found work they can walk to, like the half-built bar waiting for concrete, so you either need a massive oversupply of labor, to ensure absolutely every job is always full, or you need to go to some of your apartment buildings and specify where the people in it should go to work. I think for this situation you would want to select the bus station you want them to wait at as where they should work, but I'm not 100% sure.
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Mar 13, 2023 10:15
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commando in tophat posted:So I watched some videos, bought this game, played all the tutorials, started a game on realistic because I'm a massive idiot, and after I got hosed by all the stuff like "construction office cannot source same material from 2 buildings", "buses from office take foreign workers to construction sites that have no materials, instead to those with materials and mechanism" and built wind power, but found out there was absolutely no wind in 3 months despite rains and such. I think folks hit many of the other points but "Show range of the power substation" is absolutely a thing. There's a button on the substation's UI that shows connections, or if its not yet built (and thus the button is not yet available) you can select it in the build menu and hover the ghost over your to-be-built substation and see the connections. Hailthefish's post explains the basics of bussing workers, certainly. Volmarias also gives a lot of tips. But mostly I want to drive home: Do not start on full difficulty realistic. There's no awards for starting that way and there's absolutely no reason that - even if you want to play that way - to start that way. There's so many weird systems and interactions and potential pitfalls that you're going to want to start disabling a lot of the more punishing settings (Realistic Mode, Seasons/Heat, Population Happiness on hard, building fires on frequent (literally never enable this, normal is fine and keeps you honest), and maybe even some others.) Once you're sustaining on that, then enable some new systems and see how they work. FWIW I have hundreds of actual hours in the game and don't actually click the "realistic mode" difficulty even though I play pretty close to honest about it. Sometimes bullshit happens. Bash your brain against a limited set of mechanics before you toss in a new one. It's not fun to try and understand why everyones dying of cold apartments when you don't even get how to move coal, yet.
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Mar 13, 2023 10:36
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I play on realistic but that's because I do enjoy having to do literally everything manually. But yeah if you're learning the game you should allow buying with money. I think playing the game like that long term probably doesn't have much staying power because the real meat of the game is in the transportation element, but even if you allow money buying you still are encouraged to use transportation because it saves you money. You can get a feel for how the game works and then figure out how to do it with the transportation infrastructure. All of the elements from realistic mode are still there, you just have the option of not using them.
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Mar 13, 2023 11:56
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Are there any tricks for speeding up asphalt road construction? Or is it inherently kind of a slow process.
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Mar 13, 2023 12:45
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Yeah jokes about the new player experience aside, 1000% agreed to start with most of the difficulty settings turned off and maximum, or even unlimited money, and just muck around trying to build things and make them work, and then when you have an understanding of the basic systems, start trying to do more and more things the 'realistic' way while keeping the money backstop, and then if you feel you're ready for a real challenge, give realistic mode a try if you want. Doing everything with magic money takes a lot of the flavor out of it, though, unless you're 100% in it for building pretty cities (which, fair). Even if you're MAINLY interested in building pretty cities, being COMPELLED to build infrastructure in stages and supporting industries and transportation logistics can be a big driver of making a city that feels functional and lived-in.
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Mar 13, 2023 12:55
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The secret to this game is that it's both a city builder and a factory simulator, and you need to be good at the factory building before you can tackle the city.
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Mar 13, 2023 13:04
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Takanago posted:Are there any tricks for speeding up asphalt road construction? Or is it inherently kind of a slow process. Electrical installation requires people, but everything else can be done unmanned (although the asphalt laying and rolling will be a bit faster with workers) The US asphalt paver is actually significantly faster than the soviet one, so try and get a hold of one of those if possible, and I would generally say try to make a dedicated road builder CO which just has dumpers, pavers, rollers, and dozers to do the initial gravel and asphalt setup. Not needing people you can just set it up and forget and it will happily chug through all your asphalt roads on its own while you do other things. If you really want to rush build a highway though you probably want helicopters, which can build large stretches of road simultaneously and are also allowed to drop asphalt off at the site rather than waiting with it in trucks, which is the big bottleneck for asphalt road construction as you need to crew the paver to get through the trucks at any meaningful rate. For your inner cities, you are probably actually best doing your initial layout with gravel roads and then upgrading them to street lights, gravel is very quick to lay (and a big improvement over dirt, so if you really need access somewhere fast, consider just laying gravel there instead) and once your city has people in it, you can more quickly complete the asphalt and electrification with a supply of workers from the city itself.
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Mar 13, 2023 13:15
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It feels like you need a shocking amount of construction offices to build anything efficiently but I suppose that maps to reality way better than the way videogames usually do it.
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Mar 13, 2023 13:17
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When I do realistic mode, I use another save with most things turned off and infinite money to test mechanics. That had been helpful.
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Mar 13, 2023 13:18
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Honestly once you can afford it I would strongly recommend investing in a big helicopter CO. you can attach helipads to them to use more of their vehicle slots for choppers or just build multiple of them. Helicopters in number can build basically anywhere on the map they can land, extremely quickly. They're ideal for building huge highways quickly or shoveling resources into big factory constructions.
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Mar 13, 2023 13:19
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Yo, thanks for the replies. Just to make sure how workers function in this game, is this like this? 1) Comrade worker doesn't have a job. He wakes up, looks out of window and if he seems something where there is work, he goes there 2) If there isn't anything within laughably short walking distance, he'll go to bus stop and doesn't have any plan where to go. He just sits there like a piece of lumber waiting to be transported somewhere, anywhere. 3) Bus driver shoves 50% of workers out at some bus stop, and it is back to (1)? How does a worker get home? is this something like above, or he can grows a brain and figures out how to get home? And if citizen cannot buy any food, because grocery store is 10m beyond walking distance, will he just go starve at the bus stop and pray to lenin so he sends him bus to somewhere with grocery store? What the line has multiple stops and only one has grocery? Will he just be kicked out of a bus randomly and then be like "  no food here either"If this works similar to this, that would seem pretty dumb. And after I manage to persuade some workers to go work at power plant, will it randomly stop producing because some bus waited at intersection 5s longer and now the workers at power plant decide to go home like they don't work at critical infrastructure? Or will they wait a bit for replacement? Because I tried supplying power plant with foreign workers but 2 buses cannot keep it working and it is like 100m from borders Sorry for my dumb questions
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Mar 13, 2023 14:20
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Answering your questions in order:commando in tophat posted:Yo, thanks for the replies. Just to make sure how workers function in this game, is this like this? This is correct. commando in tophat posted:How does a worker get home? is this something like above, or he can grows a brain and figures out how to get home? He teleports. commando in tophat posted:And if citizen cannot buy any food, because grocery store is 10m beyond walking distance, will he just go starve at the bus stop and pray to lenin so he sends him bus to somewhere with grocery store? What the line has multiple stops and only one has grocery? Will he just be kicked out of a bus randomly and then be like " This is also correct. You have to either build your cities walkable, or mess around with passenger travel. I find it easier to do the first one. commando in tophat posted:And after I manage to persuade some workers to go work at power plant, will it randomly stop producing because some bus waited at intersection 5s longer and now the workers at power plant decide to go home like they don't work at critical infrastructure? Or will they wait a bit for replacement? Because I tried supplying power plant with foreign workers but 2 buses cannot keep it working and it is like 100m from borders When a worker's shift times out, they teleport home, whether they're waiting at a station for transport that never came or in the middle of life saving surgery at the hospital. Setting up consistent staffing for critical industries is part of the logistics game. I recommend using trains or trams on dedicated rail/tram only roads or even cableways to provide consistent staffing to things like heating plants and power plants.
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Mar 13, 2023 14:31
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commando in tophat posted:Yo, thanks for the replies. Just to make sure how workers function in this game, is this like this? Basically. Keep in mind with the laughably short walking distance that walking distance is a function of the surfaces people are walking on, if you have gravel footpaths and asphalt roads with lights and sidewalks, this walking distance becomes surprisingly far! The downside is all that poo poo takes time and material and equipment and production chains to build. Mud roads and mud paths are free, but they do suck. quote:How does a worker get home? is this something like above, or he can grows a brain and figures out how to get home? Workers return home through the mighty soviet scientific discovery of teleportation. quote:And if citizen cannot buy any food, because grocery store is 10m beyond walking distance, will he just go starve at the bus stop and pray to lenin so he sends him bus to somewhere with grocery store? What the line has multiple stops and only one has grocery? Will he just be kicked out of a bus randomly and then be like " Honestly I have no idea how all this works because I provision all my citizens with necessary services within walking distance because my assumption of how this works is 'badly'. quote:And after I manage to persuade some workers to go work at power plant, will it randomly stop producing because some bus waited at intersection 5s longer and now the workers at power plant decide to go home like they don't work at critical infrastructure? Yes this is exactly what will happen, which is why people tend to try, as much as possible, to have everyone walk to work. If this isn't possible for logistical or pollution reasons, for crucial services it is, perhaps counterintuitively, better to supply them with workers through a fleet of small minibuses rather than a smaller number of giant busses. quote:Sorry for my dumb questions Sorry for my dumb answers Also note that if you have the surplus manufacturing and roadbuilding capacity, and hate yourself and want to suffer, you really can just build parking lots everywhere and provide all your citizens with cars and they can live in Soviet Texas and everything works like a slightly janky version of every other citybuilding game you've ever played, except you now have insurmountable traffic bottlenecks loving up all your road-based logistics networks. hailthefish fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Mar 13, 2023 |
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Mar 13, 2023 14:34
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commando in tophat posted:Yo, thanks for the replies. Just to make sure how workers function in this game, is this like this? Close. The way I interpret it is thus. Citizens exist and have their needs and such that need to be met, I think it's split across the day so they spend some time asleep (I assume) and some time satisfying a need (they will try to satisfy things based on their desires but I think will do other things if their desire is unmeetable, such as spirituality because you can't build churches) and they will also periodically generate a work shift, where they will look for work. When a shift is generated, the worker will look around their house for a job in walking distance, if they find one they will go to it, regardless of whether the job is actually completable (a building site with no resources still generates jobs for workers unless you tell it not to, on the assumption the resources will be there shortly) If there are no jobs the worker will look for a transport station and will hang out there waiting for someone to pick them up, when they do this it starts their commuting timer which is 5 hours, if they do not get taken to a job in that time they will teleport back to their house and count as "unemployed" until their next shift, which I think generally makes them a bit unhappy but not hugely so as long as they have their other needs met. Workers at the transport station are thus, essentially, a perishable resource. You must collect them with a vehicle and shovel them into factories, when a bus full of workers arrives at another station and is told to unload, it will spit out workers to all available open jobs and this is important, it won't dispense more workers than there are jobs available, spare workers will stay on the bus unless you tell the bus to do a transfer, which tells them to get out and wait at the new station for another vehicle to pick them up, this does not reset their commute timer however so you can't daisy chain them indefninitely, but this is the process for getting say, your bus lines to feet a train station or something. It is fiddly and I do not recommend using it. It also doesn't tell them "wait at this new stop until a job slot becomes free nearby" and as far as I know there is no way to tell them to do that. Either there is a job open when the bus arrives or you transfer them to the station where they will wait until their commute times out. Once the worker finishes their work shift (which is eight hours regardless of how long their commute was) they teleport home and move into the next phase of their cycle, sleep or looking for needs I assume. Satisfying needs works the same way, they will try to look for satisfaction in the vicintiy of their house but if they can't they will head to a transport platform as a passenger, passengers want to be taken to somewhere that can satisfy their needs. I have not, honestly, used this feature at all because I believe that if a worker cannot satisfy a need they would like, and there is a passenger stop available, they will go there and wait rather than finding something else to do. I do not know exactly how passenger transport works, I would like to think it works like jobs, except passengers having a specific thing they want to be dropped off at, so if you do a circular around all possible amenities you will eventually have them get off at the things they want, but I genuinely have never tried it, I just turn passengers off and let them be unhappy about services they can't walk to. The wiki, which is quite detailed in information, suggests that passengers will check if the stop their bus is at can reach the service they want: https://workers-resources.fandom.com/wiki/Citizens#Passenger Someone else with more experience should give you details though as I said I just never use it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Mar 13, 2023 |
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Mar 13, 2023 14:35
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These are all very smart questions but *taps the thread title* You're understanding the basics of metro transport. People are just like goods except they have legs that can get them to a job or a bus stop promising jobs. You should think of your bus stop selection of workers/not workers/students as promises of where the busses go for that stop. Normally you don't want to mix them or mix lines - just have bus lines of only work destinations or leisure destinations or school destinations. Then you want to meet the promises, so your bus stop destinations should qualify for what they are waiting for. They have a little bit of intelligence about getting on a bus that possibly has work at the end of it but IIRC there's checkboxes to force them on and off to help with multiple leg journeys. Workers teleport home when their shift ends, freeing up the slot. This makes power infrastructure very delicate - we normally recommend to use minibuses or cable cars because they provide a constant small workforce to stop all 180 or wherever people from going home at the same time and turning your power off.
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Mar 13, 2023 14:38
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Yeah the mechanics of worker movement really places value on small, regular deliveries of workers. Especially for things that need to run 24/7 like heat and power, and which use few workers. This is a good use case for minibuses, cars, or cable cars. Or just building a house near the power plant and telling them to eat poo poo. For larger factories you probably just want to accept that it won't be operating at 100% all the time, and that's fine, you can even out production with big storage facilities and if a factory complex can accept a thousand workers at max capacity, that's actually just so you can run a giant train into it every so often rather than having to use a conga line of dozens of buses running constantly. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Mar 13, 2023 |
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Mar 13, 2023 14:45
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The game correctly realises that car is bad and you should hate the car. While bus is a better car, it's still a car and therefore evil. Once you internalize this truth, you will understand the game.
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Mar 13, 2023 14:49
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Except the cable car, which is really a slandered train.
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Mar 13, 2023 14:51
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If you need it to go up a mountain to a mine it's forgivable. In any other circumstance it's a cardinal gadgetbahn sin.
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Mar 13, 2023 14:55
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Thanks for the replies, knowing how it works will help bring glory to my soviet republic. So with people transport working like it does, and power plant that takes at most 15 workers, I can probably forget about stable power supply if demand will be some % of power plant production? Solution is to connect to borders and buy/sell electricity based on how timing on minibuses and teleports home align?
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Mar 13, 2023 14:58
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commando in tophat posted:Thanks for the replies, knowing how it works will help bring glory to my soviet republic. So with people transport working like it does, and power plant that takes at most 15 workers, I can probably forget about stable power supply if demand will be some % of power plant production? Solution is to connect to borders and buy/sell electricity based on how timing on minibuses and teleports home align? Basically. The 7 person minibusses will probably be enough IF you always have a supply of workers ready to go at the bus stop, and depending on how long the trip from the bus stop to the power station is. If it's a very long trip you may need to have a ludicrous number of them. But yeah you can supplement with power bought at the border, and that's generally a good idea when you're first getting started. The thing you really want to watch out for is if you have seasons/heating turned on, because in winter time your citizens will freeze to death if the heat stays off for too long and the heating plants poo poo out a ton of pollution so it's generally unwise to have them within walking distance of housing.
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Mar 13, 2023 15:03
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commando in tophat posted:Thanks for the replies, knowing how it works will help bring glory to my soviet republic. So with people transport working like it does, and power plant that takes at most 15 workers, I can probably forget about stable power supply if demand will be some % of power plant production? Solution is to connect to borders and buy/sell electricity based on how timing on minibuses and teleports home align? Connecting to a border to sell excess and buy in case of outages is always a good idea. As long as you don't constantly need max capacity you should be fine. At some point you might need a second plant for better coverage and redundancy. Sometimes weird transport glitches may happen anyway, so best to have an entire separate residential district just dedicated to working the plant.
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Mar 13, 2023 15:04
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There nothing fundamentally different about passengers except there's, what, 4-6 different flavors of off shift needs to meet so there's the most chance for things to go wrong. Depending on the type of leisure, an ineffective commute isn't the worst thing in the world - making your bars hard to get to is a way to get measured temperance without prohibition. But you normally don't want someone lost on the way to the grocery store so almost everyone has walkable food and turn that into walkable every need.commando in tophat posted:Thanks for the replies, knowing how it works will help bring glory to my soviet republic. So with people transport working like it does, and power plant that takes at most 15 workers, I can probably forget about stable power supply if demand will be some % of power plant production? Solution is to connect to borders and buy/sell electricity based on how timing on minibuses and teleports home align? You don't need perfect overall equipment effectiveness (OEE) in this game to be 100%, nor perfectly utilized power output. You will want to maximize it on a few things like power and heat. You will need a safety factor which necessitates extra power and heat plants before you fully utilize them. But momentary power and heat flickers aren't bad if you keep them momentary. You keep them momentary by having a constant trickle of workers available on the bus arriving periodically.
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Mar 13, 2023 15:10
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You'll also get much more stable power as you grow. When you're starting out and reliant on a single plant, a missed shift shuts down power. When you have multiple plants, or one baseload plant supplemented by renewables, a single missed shift causes brownouts at worst.
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Mar 13, 2023 15:13
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Cable cars are the best transport overall in the game. Imho
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Mar 13, 2023 15:25
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