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Nessus posted:If it had just been about the importance of accessibility sure, but Julian had to get all mad horny on the space bird chick. EDIT: I refuse to change this snipe.
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Mar 14, 2023 21:41
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zoux posted:I agree with this article on the occasion of the thirtieth anniversary of Move Along Home lol i saw that on apple news. it's not a bad take i like "move along home". beyond what they've identified, it's actually the first first contact story with a gamma quadrant civilization we see, and the wadi are weird. it's debatable whether or not it works, but honestly i think it does. there's no reason to believe that some far-flung culture would be broadly similar to our own, and i think the opposite is probably just as likely e: "melora", "meridian", and "second sight" are all worse and "let he who is without sin..." is probably the worst overall. viewed in sequence they all mostly typically follow extremely strong episodes too, "his way" is better but also suffers from this problem Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Mar 14, 2023 |
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Mar 14, 2023 22:56
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"Let He Who Is Without Sin" is missing a scene at the end where Worf is telling his therapist all about this weird dream he had where Dax made him so mad he committed terrorism
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Mar 14, 2023 23:35
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I contend he didn't. That was his Fantasy Island vacation.
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Mar 14, 2023 23:53
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zoux posted:I agree with this article on the occasion of the thirtieth anniversary of Move Along Home Probably the best of those in DS9 all end up being varying degrees of problematic in hindsight. Rejoined is another clunky allegory but works better than most of the ones Trek does, IMO, and Farrell and the other actress put in great work selling it. A Simple Investigation has the weird memory wipe stuff at the ending, when I think it would've been better without that even before you question the consent stuff. And speaking of that, Chrysalis is basically like Melora to the nth degree in terms of Julian making real sketchy decisions for a doctor, and again is mostly saved by Siddig and the actor playing Serena being very talented.
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Mar 15, 2023 00:01
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zoux posted:I agree with this article on the occasion of the thirtieth anniversary of Move Along Home I get what you're saying about DS9 not emulating TOS early on like TNG, but Move Along Home itself is TOS as gently caress.
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Mar 15, 2023 00:13
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Astroman posted:I get what you're saying about DS9 not emulating TOS early on like TNG, but Move Along Home itself is TOS as gently caress. Almost all the shows have at least one episode in the first season with that vibe. Even Discovery has that one with the plants that talk to Saru or whatever.
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Mar 15, 2023 00:29
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zoux posted:I agree with this article on the occasion of the thirtieth anniversary of Move Along Home
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Mar 15, 2023 02:11
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https://twitter.com/SofaJustice/status/1590955985749037056?s=19
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Mar 15, 2023 02:34
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I was never really sure what Jadzia's job was supposed to be. She's supposed to be "science officer" like Spock was, but DS9 did way less exploration of fancy phenomenae than TNG (and TNG was already not terribly interested in the sciencey side of things). More likely it'll be O'Brien or Bashir explaining anything weird. She's not really the second in command, since technically Kira was the one who things generally fell to unless it was a specifically Starfleet-exclusive matter. If anything, the thing she does the most is just hang out. Later when Worf came into the show, it was more careful to carve out a niche for him first. Ezri also had clearer job duties, although her job was one that the 90s didn't have much respect for and the show didn't have very much time for her because it was busy building a finale. They really should've been willing to step down Terry Ferrel's role in the show. Nobody would've noticed. zoux posted:I get what they're going for but it doesn't really map onto modern disability issues because I think most people would be all over the chance to cure their disorder if such a cure existed. Also I don't buy that the stock "disabled with a chip on their shoulder" type character would exist in the 24th century, it all seemed very 1990s. Also Julian has never experienced zero g in his whole life? Did he klep out of all that stuff at the academy? It's a Complicated situation these days. Disabilities that communities build up around are especially "protective" about things, and there are some concerns over some places possibly making disability-correcting surgery mandatory. I feel like it seems improbable that there would be no disabilities left by the days of Star Trek, just because there's still a lot of accidents out there. In TOS they had full-body paralysis. I don't know how you fix something like colorblindness. Worf demanding that he be killed after getting hit by a barrel probably got a lot of audiences upset at Star Trek as well.
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Mar 15, 2023 03:19
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i don't think they ever knew who jadzia was supposed to be either, that's why like half the time she was just "oh remember when curzon  "she was just not a good character imo
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Mar 15, 2023 03:24
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like it seems improbable that there would be no disabilities left by the days of Star Trek, just because there's still a lot of accidents out there. In TOS they had full-body paralysis. I don't know how you fix something like colorblindness. Starfleet personel get taken to The Farm when this happens. It's a nice place.
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Mar 15, 2023 03:32
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Beeftweeter posted:i don't think they ever knew who jadzia was supposed to be either, that's why like half the time she was just "oh remember when curzon Jadzia worked when they leaned into her being the Roz Doyle of DS9.
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Mar 15, 2023 04:32
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HD DAD posted:Jadzia worked when they leaned into her being the Roz Doyle of DS9. i didn't watch much frasier so while i think i can see the comparison (they are both promiscuous?) i'm not sure what you mean e: wikipedia isn't much help either lol. it kinda reinforces what i had thought but i'm still not sure
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Mar 15, 2023 04:57
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I was more thinking of both of them being snarky chaotic neutral types. Jadzia got ever so slightly more impish as the series went on, though they definitely didn’t utilise that side of her enough.
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Mar 15, 2023 05:08
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"The Royale" is a dumb episode that I can't help but love.
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Mar 15, 2023 05:23
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SlothfulCobra posted:Worf demanding that he be killed after getting hit by a barrel probably got a lot of audiences upset at Star Trek as well. Still makes me laugh that Picard was like "Well, it's his culture, we can find another security guy. I'm his cha'DIch, you know."
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Mar 15, 2023 06:39
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Animal-Mother posted:Still makes me laugh that Picard was like "Well, it's his culture, we can find another security guy. I'm his cha'DIch, you know." Riker laying into Worf about not being traditional enough so get your loving son in here instead of asking me is pretty great. Of course, the best Riker going off is still Future Imperfect. It's actually really well put together since you get half an episode of him trying his hardest to adjust to this (what we as the audience know is a) bullshit future. Then you get the scene with the birthday video and every single moment from him snarling "Minuet" to the end of that act is so loving great.
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Mar 15, 2023 06:54
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FISHMANPET posted:"The Royale" is a dumb episode that I can't help but love. "the royale" owns. the guest stars are hammy on purpose, it's definitely in the vein of a TOS adventure, it's very conscious how ridiculous it is and makes no pretense about being anything else. plus data and riker have a blast
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Mar 15, 2023 07:22
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I also genuinely like how it doesn’t try to introduce some bullshit ticking time bomb; Picard explicitly says “we’ll stick around for months if we have to”, but the thought of having to stay in a lovely old casino for one second longer than necessary is plenty motivation enough for our heroes. (I feel like there was a period of like fifteen or twenty years, which The Royale was kind of catching the tail end of, when tv and cinema had a weird fascination with casinos, am I wrong on that?)
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Mar 15, 2023 07:40
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The only issue with Dax is that they stopped writing solo scripts for her the moment Worf was introduced. She was a good character and Farrell grew into the role, but she really fell by fhe wayside as 'Worf's libertine gf' as soon as they got together
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Mar 15, 2023 08:52
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Ugh that whole arc sucked and was a nosedive for both characters.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:15
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Yeah that episode is a weird one She mostly just sits there in the courtroom silent
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Mar 15, 2023 12:18
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HD DAD posted:I was more thinking of both of them being snarky chaotic neutral types. I read this as "chaotic neural" which kind of makes sense? Dax was ultimately too complicated a character to work in the '90s syndicated TV context, unless she were the main character. Naturally, as the show evolved out of that context, she got a little better, and transitioning to Ezri was a great idea even though it happened too late. But I think enough damage was done early on that her growth was stunted. If you can't depend on the audience having seen previous episodes, you pretty much have to always have her be like "As you know, I used to be this other guy and here's what he would say" instead of being able to really flesh out how that would affect her personality.
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Mar 15, 2023 13:04
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Did DS9 ever do anything Dax-centric episodes which didn’t involve the symbiont or Worf? The only one which I can think of is Meridian, which is probably best forgotten. At least Ezri got the episode where she goes home and something something miners Orion Syndicate…
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Mar 15, 2023 13:55
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I'm fully aware I'm wishing on a monkey's paw, but honestly if they're looking for more ways to milk the Star Trek IP, a Star Trek: Dax series seems like a pretty good idea. It's probably the only way to really do justice to that character concept, and also kind of retroactively apologize for short-selling the character/actor. No big loss if they "ruin" Dax, and in fact they could redeem Dax. Plus they can surely milk it for all the inevitable culture war baggage it carries.
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Mar 15, 2023 14:57
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coming soon in prestige format Star Trek: Tobin
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Mar 15, 2023 15:17
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So was Kurzon in starfleet or what. Was Sisko assigned to him as a diplomatic attache?
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Mar 15, 2023 15:32
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Zaroff posted:Did DS9 ever do anything Dax-centric episodes which didn’t involve the symbiont or Worf? i don't think so. other than "worf's par'ma'kai" (jadzia) dax's identity is pretty much "the trill, as defined by her other hosts" as you've identified they did fix this a bit with ezri, but we were basically at the end of the series at that point. imo as a result those episodes seemed like dumb asides, even if they might be appreciated as character development in hindsight; there were just more important things going on at that time. establishing a new character then probably wouldn't have worked well regardless of who it was
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Mar 15, 2023 15:32
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zoux posted:So was Kurzon in starfleet or what. Was Sisko assigned to him as a diplomatic attache? He was an ambassador for the Federation, but he wasn't Starfleet specifically. He and Sisko were on the same station for a while and became friends there.
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Mar 15, 2023 15:38
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this video helped me understand the people who are obsessed with trek ships. it's a sex thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbnBZH-eLIs&t=85s
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Mar 15, 2023 16:12
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It's nothing so crude, it's romance.
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Mar 15, 2023 16:27
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zoux posted:It's nothing so crude, it's romance. *takes notes* "...call the ship... handsome lady..."
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Mar 15, 2023 18:26
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"Alas, my ship, whom I love like a woman... is disabled"
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Mar 15, 2023 19:57
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Gaz-L posted:*takes notes* "...call the ship... handsome lady..." Just vulcan ships
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Mar 15, 2023 21:19
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I think Jadzia had only received her symbiote recently, after excelling at the host preparation. So in theory there's room for "young person suddenly has memories and experiences spanning hundreds of years" stories, like they did with Ezri. But in practice, she was well prepared enough that she could... handle it, which is a good thing from the perspective of the Symbiosis Commission or whatever, but not so great for storytelling. There could have been a storyline where Curzon's close platonic friendship with Sisko somehow turns into something more complicated when those same feelings now inhabit the body of a young attractive woman. But also that story would probably be terrible on the merits, and probably poorly executed to the point where it would be borderline offensive by the standards of the mid-90s, much less modern sensibilities. But Jadzia was prepared, so those kinds of things never came up regardless. And Rejoined probably got about as much out of that concept as you would with Jadzia suddenly having the hots for Sisko.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:01
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They did that in the wacky Life Day episode I think the issue with Dax is that Terry Farrell has fairly limited range. She's loving perfect as the wry, cool SF officer and a believable science officer but anything that requires her to do more than that, her performance isn't great.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:07
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In practice, the writers hadn't thought much about the idea that the brain slug would have separate memories and persona from the host, so they never really do much to clarify anything about Jadzia as a person apart from the brain slug. Whenever the subject comes up, she just says something about how great brain slugs are.
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Mar 16, 2023 00:14
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I think in large part Ezri worked because they had Jadzia to contrast against her, her ambivalence about being joined really works after seeing how Jadzia really embraced it and retrospectively makes Jadzia's cosmopolitanism less of a 'Dax' thing and more her own personality
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Mar 16, 2023 00:34
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Ezri absolutely made Jadzia more interesting after-the-fact. That's a great observation. I don't think it had occurred to me.
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Mar 16, 2023 04:50
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