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Dragonlance was one of my earliest on-ramps into D&D too. Even at the time it was weird, boring, and long-winded compared to other YA genre fiction, but it is what it is.
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Mar 10, 2023 20:32
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Technically I'd played D&D before reading Dragonlance novels but only as a very small child being humored by relatives, and only an edition that was even then decades out of date. If not for that it would have been my entry point as well.
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Mar 10, 2023 20:49
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My onramp to D&D was Drizzt books. I made so many dual-wielding fighters as a kid...
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Mar 10, 2023 21:15
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I read the first Dragonlance trilogy and then The Twins one, but they were handed to me by my DM at the time after I'd already started playing D&D. Then we tried playing the Dragonlance campaign and he TPK'ed us because we got into an argument that annoyed him. He was the only actual adult at the table at the time.
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Mar 11, 2023 06:52
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Nuns with Guns posted:I read the first Dragonlance trilogy and then The Twins one, but they were handed to me by my DM at the time after I'd already started playing D&D. Then we tried playing the Dragonlance campaign and he TPK'ed us because we got into an argument that annoyed him. He was the only actual adult at the table at the time. It doesn't sound like he was, to be honest.
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Mar 11, 2023 07:17
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Quick aside, we now have a Trad Games/TGR feedback thread. Swing on by if you have any input!
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Mar 14, 2023 02:58
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Pelgrane Press is going full steam ahead with AI art. https://pelgranepress.com/2023/03/07/legions-of-carcosa-ai-art/ The forthcoming Legions of Carcosa is a freaky horror book, so Laws feels that freaky AI art is on brand.
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Mar 14, 2023 21:26
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CitizenKeen posted:Pelgrane Press is going full steam ahead with AI art. "Artists are influenced by other things so it's okay to profit off stolen artwork" sure is a take. Can't say I'm surprised but it doesn't stop me from being disappointed.
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Mar 14, 2023 21:36
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CitizenKeen posted:Pelgrane Press is going full steam ahead with AI art. Seems more like a thin justification for not wanting to pay for artists. I hope people don't support this poo poo
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Mar 14, 2023 21:38
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I think the AI could gently caress things up in ways an artist may not even consider at first, but you know what lets you accomplish that? Hiring artists and having an AI trained exclusively off of their art do its thing. Doing it this way is just a bummer.
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Mar 14, 2023 21:41
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Oh cool, a Carcosa book that's unethical in a different way
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Mar 14, 2023 21:53
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The example they used looks like absolute dogshit, so if Laws is good having that represent his book he deserves what's coming to him.
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Mar 14, 2023 21:56
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My 1500 word article about how AI art is fine actually and doesn't rip off creators has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my 1500 word article.
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Mar 14, 2023 22:03
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Between this and 13th Age, I think I'm done with Pelgrane.
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Mar 14, 2023 22:08
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Lumbermouth posted:The example they used looks like absolute dogshit, so if Laws is good having that represent his book he deserves what's coming to him. Seriously, I know "it looks bad" isn't really the pertinent argument to take against the ethical flimsiness of AI art, but it all does just look like complete dogshit on top of everything else. There are people on Deviantart cranking out weird Poser fetish art that can make better looking stuff than that.
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Mar 14, 2023 22:13
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It's a goddamn shame because Yellow King RPG is the evolution that I wanted to see in an eventual 2nd edition of Trail of Cthulhu, but I've also got all of my Cthulhu gaming covered by Chaosium and Golden Goblin right now.
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Mar 14, 2023 22:13
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I already know a number of graphic artists who have begun using AI as part of their workflow, and honestly that's going to have to become part of the norm going forward, because those lawsuits are actually not likely to succeed, and even if they do we're in the "Napster" phase of the technology, and God help anyone that's still clinging to the rocks when we reach the equivalent of iTunes, or Spotify in the technology's acceptance by the general public. As someone that teaches at a university, we had this brief moment of panic with ChatGPT, but we're already finding ways to incorporate it into our coursework and shifting our assessment techniques because the tech is not going anywhere.
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Mar 14, 2023 22:18
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If you train a model of the stuff on your own work, that seems completely ethical, though you would presumably want to keep that poo poo to yourself.
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Mar 14, 2023 22:34
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AI art and other tools aren't going anywhere, but currently it's going to stand out like a sore thumb compared to manual processes (see the Cities Without Number book). Like any piece of tech, you still need real artists to use these tools well and as it exists currently, they still have to do a lot of work on things to get them anywhere near presentable. Given the tone of that article, I do not expect Pelgrane to do that work.
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Mar 14, 2023 22:46
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Pelgrane Press has used Photoshop type filters on historical pictures as art for their Cthulhu stuff for a long time. It also looks bad but is cheap. Still, this is also a complete non starter for me and I liked the Yellow King RPG.
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Mar 14, 2023 23:13
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Lumbermouth posted:It's a goddamn shame because Yellow King RPG is the evolution that I wanted to see in an eventual 2nd edition of Trail of Cthulhu, but I've also got all of my Cthulhu gaming covered by Chaosium and Golden Goblin right now.
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Mar 14, 2023 23:39
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Lumbermouth posted:The example they used looks like absolute dogshit, so if Laws is good having that represent his book he deserves what's coming to him. Once again, I don't have to worry about ethical consumption under capitalism because I have no desire to consume this garbage.
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Mar 14, 2023 23:47
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Hostile V posted:Pelgrane I am begging you to just print TYK ruleset as a generic system or do like Fear Itself 3e instead of in your weird digression into one GM one player Night's Black Agents adventure modules. What's good about the TYK ruleset?
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Mar 15, 2023 00:12
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CitizenKeen posted:What's good about the TYK ruleset? Uses the push mechanics and Quickshock cards from Cthulhu Confidential for a party-based RPG. It also has a fantastic one-roll combat system with variable difficulties based on what the combat is meant to achieve (killing, driving away, escaping, etc.) Trail has always been a little too micromanagey to fully enjoy it and streamlining point spends and depleting resources really worked for me.
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Mar 15, 2023 00:22
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Kai Tave posted:Seriously, I know "it looks bad" isn't really the pertinent argument to take against the ethical flimsiness of AI art, but it all does just look like complete dogshit on top of everything else. There are people on Deviantart cranking out weird Poser fetish art that can make better looking stuff than that. That reminds me, anyone know if Arc Dream stopped using Poser art? It's been a while since I picked up anything from them, but seeing it crop up in multiple Wild Talents books and just completely destroying them aesthetically was a real downer.
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Mar 15, 2023 01:20
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Parkreiner posted:That reminds me, anyone know if Arc Dream stopped using Poser art? It's been a while since I picked up anything from them, but seeing it crop up in multiple Wild Talents books and just completely destroying them aesthetically was a real downer. Now we get it from WOTC too! 
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Mar 15, 2023 01:51
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Books having good art is so important because you're gonna be looking through those things for hours
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Mar 15, 2023 02:08
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Whirling posted:Books having good art is so important because you're gonna be looking through those things for hours Look, D&D art being lovely is a long tradition and it's time we went back to those roots. Kudos to WotC for returning to tradition.
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Mar 15, 2023 02:19
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Lumbermouth posted:Now we get it from WOTC too! What the gently caress is going on with that, uh... extremely pale pale drow's (?) left leg?  Is he being yanked into the water by an invisible stalker? Is he dancing a jig? Why does this exist?Seriously, what is this from, it's absolutely awful.
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Mar 15, 2023 02:22
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Apropos of nothing strictly tradgame related, but Clarksworld (the sci-fi/fantasy fiction magazine) had to shut down submissions because they were being bombarded with AI-generated entries and automated detectors designed to filter out AI-gen stuff aren't (according to them) reliable enough to work with acceptable accuracy yet. It's not so much a case of the submissions being hard to distinguish from the real thing as it is sheer volume which makes having to manually sift through the garbage into what's effectively a denial-of-service attack. Most RPG work doesn't usually work on the submission of entries the same way, but I do wonder if eventually someone's going to try something with a storefront like DTRPG and/or if it would even be possible to do so.
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Mar 15, 2023 02:32
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Kai Tave posted:Apropos of nothing strictly tradgame related, but Clarksworld (the sci-fi/fantasy fiction magazine) had to shut down submissions because they were being bombarded with AI-generated entries and automated detectors designed to filter out AI-gen stuff aren't (according to them) reliable enough to work with acceptable accuracy yet. My understanding from looking into it before is that current detectors have unacceptably high false positive and false negative rates. They're all done by just feeding in output from LLMs into another LLM so if the output of a new version of one of them differs even a bit they have a hard time with it and a lot of human writing is close enough to trip it up as well.
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Mar 15, 2023 02:46
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Kestral posted:What the gently caress is going on with that, uh... extremely pale pale drow's (?) left leg? It's worse -- the Tiefling on the left's tail is coming out of it's arm, while his eye is shining *through* the hood.
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Mar 15, 2023 02:48
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Kai Tave posted:Apropos of nothing strictly tradgame related, but Clarksworld (the sci-fi/fantasy fiction magazine) had to shut down submissions because they were being bombarded with AI-generated entries and automated detectors designed to filter out AI-gen stuff aren't (according to them) reliable enough to work with acceptable accuracy yet. It's not so much a case of the submissions being hard to distinguish from the real thing as it is sheer volume which makes having to manually sift through the garbage into what's effectively a denial-of-service attack. I guess a lot of geniuses simultaneously had the bright idea that they could use the magic box to instantly hit it big as a writer without actually having to put in any work. Probably alongside a pile of journalists who were doing to so they could  EXTRA! EXTRA! MAGAZINE ACCEPTS WORK WRITTEN BY AI! I don't get how this poo poo is merely "a tool that people will have to get used to," it isn't something that makes it easier like a word processor or digital art tools but it's something that shits out a whole finished product based on a bit of text. Like at best the person using it is an ideas guy, not a writer or artist. I'll take amateurish art, I'll take Poser poo poo, I'll take photos of action figures, hell I'll take filters over public domain photographs instead of stuff shat out by loving hacks who think writing a single sentence makes them an artist.
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Mar 15, 2023 02:49
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I would rather see unfinished black-and-white sketches by actual skilled artists. Looking through an artist's sketchbook is much more fun and more in the spirit of the hobby than this.
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Mar 15, 2023 03:01
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Lumbermouth posted:Uses the push mechanics and Quickshock cards from Cthulhu Confidential for a party-based RPG. It also has a fantastic one-roll combat system with variable difficulties based on what the combat is meant to achieve (killing, driving away, escaping, etc.) It's also Hard On Purpose to replenish technical skills and Pillars and other Sources of Stability and regaining mechanics is kind of, tricky for some players to grasp what those do and how often you refill, and TKY works well to supplant past systems but I do remember this part less clearly.
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Mar 15, 2023 03:02
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Most AI written material is very bland and generic, since it’s learning from a general base of writing which is mostly mediocre. This is why people feed it ridiculous prompts to force it to generate vaguely creative material. Less bland RPG supplements would be a good thing.
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Mar 15, 2023 03:19
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Maybe I'm part of the problem, but if the creator isn't (or can't hire) a competent artist I'd rather just see lukewarm AI stuff. There's certainly a path towards ethically training it on public domain images. I've been on the fence about buying Sentinels of the Multiverse since I've heard about it. I love the idea, and heard nothing but great stuff, but it looks like poo poo. Like, obviously automated plagiarism isn't the solution but there's probably a better option for everybody than taking the NO AI IMAGE PLEDGE.
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Mar 15, 2023 03:34
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moths posted:Maybe I'm part of the problem, but if the creator isn't (or can't hire) a competent artist I'd rather just see lukewarm AI stuff. I'm firmly on the "bad art over stolen art" but I won't dig in to much, except moths posted:I've been on the fence about buying Sentinels of the Multiverse since I've heard about it. I love the idea, and heard nothing but great stuff, but it looks like poo poo. I don't really like the art either, but I think that if they had other artists and not just the Questionable Content artist I'd complain less. I'd still prefer it to AI generated images.
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Mar 15, 2023 03:48
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Gimme a nice big book of pure text if you can't afford an artist. I read novels all the time and they don't come with pictures, I can make do with the same in my RPGs.
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Mar 15, 2023 04:25
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Any game set before the 1910s has more than enough public domain images to draw from. Hell newspaper illustrations from the late 1800s would make great Call of Cthulhu art.
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Mar 15, 2023 05:09
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