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Camrath posted:The exact same thing, multiple times, by multiple witnesses, in the same place over the course of many years? You say that like it's up to jaete to prove ghosts don't exist, but it's the other way around. Even if there are cases where there is no answer, that answer doesn't default to ghosts. Where would the energy come from? Doing all that spooky stuff would take energy. e: ghost cat tax: 
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Mar 15, 2023 00:22
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Camrath posted:(For the record, as I’m sure I’ve stated before, I’m pretty sure ghosts are a natural phenomenon that we just haven’t figured out the mechanism for yet. They’ve been common to every human culture and society across the planet going back to prehistoric times.) Gods have also been commonly believed in throughout human history in all parts of the world, and yet today we know that they were all just made up except for one.
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Mar 15, 2023 00:31
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Maybe there's just one ghost that likes to play dress-up.
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Mar 15, 2023 00:32
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big scary monsters posted:Maybe there's just one ghost that likes to play dress-up. Maybe it's just a very naughty subatomic particle. quote:The one-electron universe postulate, proposed by theoretical physicist John Wheeler in a telephone call to Richard Feynman in the spring of 1940, is the hypothesis that all electrons and positrons are actually manifestations of a single entity moving backwards and forwards in time.
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Mar 15, 2023 00:44
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Brendan Rodgers posted:You say that like it's up to jaete to prove ghosts don't exist, but it's the other way around. Even if there are cases where there is no answer, that answer doesn't default to ghosts. Where would the energy come from? Doing all that spooky stuff would take energy. Call it what you will- there’s a certain set of phenomena that have been reported throughout history, experienced by many many people (hell, including myself) that we don’t currently have a model to explain. Nothing spooky about it, it’s just a question of figuring out the mechanism for a natural phenomenon. Which I do believe will be done one day. As for proof, well- for a simple example prove to someone that hasn’t experienced it that thunder exists. What we’re discussing is a transient phenomenon; I know that I’ve seen the ghost of a former housekeeper at my place in France, I know that I’ve heard footsteps going along the upstairs passageway when nobody was there (and indeed passing through a physically blocked area too). A lot of other people have too; family members, guests and people who rent the place for their holidays, previous owners going back generations (we only found out about this after we started getting worried calls from visitors and hearing them ourselves). But there’s no way to give a tangible record of that all. There are noises or images, they are witnessed, they pass on. Sure if we kept audio recordings running constantly we /might/ capture something. Or might not- we don’t know whether the things we see and here are actually there or whether it’s something that our mind produces/picks up on. Sorry to go on, but this is a particular hobby-horse of mine. Just because something can’t be explained yet or isn’t fully understood doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
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Mar 15, 2023 00:45
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Camrath posted:I know that I’ve heard footsteps going along the upstairs passageway when nobody was there (and indeed passing through a physically blocked area too). One of the experiences we had as teenagers was going for a walk across the fields and coming across a derelict cottage. We were nosing around inside on the ground floor - the staircase was completely collapsed and then we heard someone running down the non-existent stairs. It was scary. We ran like hell.
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Mar 15, 2023 02:11
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Camrath posted:for a simple example prove to someone that hasn’t experienced it that thunder exists. This is a bad example, because the existence of thunder fits with everything else we know about science. The existence of ghosts would mean vast swathes of physics and biology were not only wrong, but so wrong as to mean our models for how everything else works were wrong too. Edit: And I think it’s disingenuous to dismiss people who don’t believe you as dogmatic in some way when literally all the experimental evidence says it is impossible for ghosts to exist and there is nothing that believers in ghosts have ever produced that is in any way conclusive or evidentiary beyond anecdote Scientastic fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 07:35
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My house makes weird noises but it's probably just bits of the roof falling off. I have seen what I guess you could call a "ghost" but I'm entirely sure it was just a hallucination, did startle me at the time though.
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Mar 15, 2023 07:54
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Free childcare in the budget is pointless. There is not enough spaces, which is why nursary spaces that do exist are so expensive. Most nurseries around me only offer 16 hours rather than 20 because they only have enough staff abd space to ofer it two days a week.
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Mar 15, 2023 08:03
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Drone_Fragger posted:Free childcare in the budget is pointless. There is not enough spaces, which is why nursary spaces that do exist are so expensive. Most nurseries around me only offer 16 hours rather than 20 because they only have enough staff abd space to ofer it two days a week. Why is this? Not to sound like a capitalist pig who actually believes in the free market, but if there’s more money to be made why aren’t more nurseries opening?
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Mar 15, 2023 08:23
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Inflation. Energy bills are up. Food bills are up. Rent is up. And then the staff are struggling with those same issues in their personal lives, so their pay requirements are up. So the money from the government that was just about adequate previously doesn't come close now, so businesses have folded, putting more pressure on the ones remaining.
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Mar 15, 2023 08:29
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My stepmother runs a nursery, and the money they get from the government isn’t enough to actually pay for the wages, overhead, food etc. for the time that the kids are there. So the free care is loss-making, but they have to provide it. Apparently there are some big players that make it work, but small local nurseries owned by people in the community they serve are hosed over. Tories being tories, as always.
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Mar 15, 2023 08:40
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Camrath posted:Ghosts You have a creaky house dude. I've got one too. Knocking sounds when the heating comes on in the morning, it's the wood expanding. My sister was adamant we had a ghost at my old nans house! Until my dad fixed a tiny hole in the roof that the wind was coming into, then the ghost left by pure coincidence. The existence of ghosts isn't just something we "can't prove yet" , it would mean a few hundred years of reviewed, tested and repeatable laws of science are completely wrong.
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Mar 15, 2023 08:55
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Scientastic posted:My stepmother runs a nursery, and the money they get from the government isn’t enough Out of interest, do you know if the funding was enough historically, when the policies were first brought in? Just wondering if this is another example of quietly freezing expenditure for something essential that nobody outside of childcare would notice, putting the onus on the business, and then when it becomes untenable, shrugging and spouting that they fund places (not mentioning the shortfall) when asked about it. Why am I even asking, this is Tory policy 101, isn't it?
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Mar 15, 2023 08:56
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Richard Herring had it right: “Have you ever seen a ghost?” “Ooh, actually yes!” “No you’ve not. Right, next question… “
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Mar 15, 2023 09:09
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Camrath posted:The exact same thing, multiple times, by multiple witnesses, in the same place over the course of many years? People want to make themselves more interesting than they are so they say they've seen a ghost.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:11
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Not commenting on the realness or unrealness of ghosts, but there are some cultures that don't believe in ghosts like we do! A famous example is in this fun little article called Shakespeare in the Bush, which I'll link below. https://www.naturalhistorymag.com/editors_pick/1966_08-09_pick.html Personally even as a materialist it's nice to imagine cool energy things and what have you, and being very negative to it doesn't make you more interesting, in the same way believing doesn't either.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:13
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I wish that ghosts and other supernatural phenomena did exist, because it would be exciting and spooky, but they don't. We have hugely impressionable minds, which literally just make stuff up all the time (eg everything we think we see in our peripheral vision) ; the closest you'd ever come to 'proving' the existence of ghosts would be proving some kind of psychological trait we have as a species which leads us to believe we see/hear/feel their presence as the result of some kind of stimulus.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:20
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The dead can and do communicate with us, sometimes very intelligently, and that's really cool imoA book posted:A miracle is a violation of the laws of nature; and as a firm and unalterable experience has established these laws, the proof against a miracle, from the very nature of the fact, is as entire as any argument from experience can possibly be imagined. ... There must, therefore, be a uniform experience against every miraculous event, otherwise the event would not merit that appellation. And as a uniform experience amounts to a proof, there is here a direct and full proof, from the nature of the fact, against the existence of any miracle; nor can such a proof be destroyed, or the miracle rendered credible, but by an opposite proof, which is superior.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:25
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:One of the experiences we had as teenagers was going for a walk across the fields and coming across a derelict cottage. We were nosing around inside on the ground floor - the staircase was completely collapsed and then we heard someone running down the non-existent stairs. It was scary. We ran like hell. When I was around 17 we used to go to a huge abandoned building on the edge of town to smoke weed. It was 3 storeys high and a proper maze inside and the only way in was to climb the scaffolding to a top floor window. One afternoon me and a mate were in there, sitting in a room on the ground floor when we heard some noise overhead. It sounded like one or two people walking very heavily along with a muffled deep male voice. Our first thought was that police were raiding the place and we were both bricking it. We sat in silence listening to the noise to see if it was getting closer and it went on for about 10 minutes, just the sound of men talking and walking heavily but it was a bit off.. like we'd hear them walking from left to right, then quiet, then left to right again. Sometimes right above us and sometimes like they were a couple of floors up. So this had gone on for about 10 minutes and we were wondering what the gently caress and how we were going to make our escape, bear in mind the only way out is to go up two floors and escape from the top floor window. Then we hear footsteps coming down the stairs: the room we're in with the door shut has a stairwell right next to it and we can hear descending footsteps on the other side of the wall and we're really making GBS threads ourselves now and I remember just sitting there and holding my breath (we still think it's the police at this point). But then nothing... the footsteps get to the bottom of the stairs and then silence. We were less than 2 metres from the bottom of the stairwell so we should have been able to hear then walk past but nothing. Then we hear people descending the stairs again: we don't hear anyone going up, just descend then silence. At this point we're sure there's no actual physical people in the building but we have to get out ASAP. The whole thing has been going on for maybe 30 minutes at this point and we just want out. The problem is that "out" is going up the spooky noises staircase, up two floors past the stomping footsteps and out the top window, I remember feeling so scared I could barely breathe. We gamed out the route we had to take and eventually decided to just make a run for it. We slowly opened the door to the room we were in, stepped out, and then total silence. All the noises stopped: nothign from the stairwell, nothing overhead, no sign that anyone was there but us two. We got out of there as quickly as we could and refused to ever step foot in that building again. I didn't, and still don't, believe in ghosts but that was the most hosed up terrifying thing that's ever happened to me. I don't really have any idea what a rational explanation for it would be.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:28
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Mar 15, 2023 09:30
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Brendan Rodgers posted:You say that like it's up to jaete to prove ghosts don't exist, but it's the other way around. I hate this line of argument as it kills entertaining discussion, but I guess until we hear from a ghost with convincing proof I'll just have to assume that jaete exists.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:52
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Camrath posted:Making the mistake of answering this seriously, but… It's almost like ghosts are a figment of people's imagination and the cultural style of one is purely based on what knowledge someone has. You'll never hear of a "ghost" of some loving viking or French soldier or whoever the gently caress from less popular or unknown points in history because people are ignorant of that information and don't subsequently personify the odd mix of physics they've just seen to those things. I've got no scientific basis for it, but my hunch is that belief stuff like ghosts (and even religion) is linked to our species personifying things. You get people talking to plants, objects, themselves if left alone long enough. You have folk applying genders to inanimate objects, we see faces and human shapes in things, etc. It's maybe already been studied but why do we do that? Is it to stave off insanity? A generic need to recognise one of our own that's misfiring? Do other creatures do the same thing? Like has anyone seen a cow treat a tree like another cow? My super out there take is that we do it as part of some kind of psychological defence mechanism to keep our species alive. Our brains have evolved quite a bit to the point where they question the universe and purpose itself. Left unchecked and without an (easily manipulated) belief system, people might be more inclined to sink into depression and end it? As mentioned though, all of the above could be bollocks. But I still think it's more likely than ghosts being real.
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Mar 15, 2023 09:53
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If you have the concept of ghosts in your head, your mind then has "ghost" as an explanation available to it to explain physical events in the world, or experiences which are in your head, and our minds are very good at coming up with frequently untrue but compelling explanations for things we experience based on our pre-existing conceptions of the world, whether we actively subscribe to them or not. Given that the mind is even capable of generating things entirely based off of pre-existing concepts available to it, I think the idea of ghosts is the reason people see them, not the other way around.
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Mar 15, 2023 10:00
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Kin posted:It's almost like ghosts are a figment of people's imagination and the cultural style of one is purely based on what knowledge someone has. Anthropomorohising. It has been studied. Its something humans do from a very young age. We believe is a side effect of our empathy, need for social groups and need to understand things. It helps starve off things like loneliness and isolation as well as make things less scary and intimidating. A basic form of it had been recorded in chimpanzees who will act gentle with toys like children do.
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Mar 15, 2023 10:06
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The Perfect Element posted:I wish that ghosts and other supernatural phenomena did exist, because it would be exciting and spooky, but they don't. You just need to get the BBC and tabloids to publish some stories confirming ghosts exist and they will soon enough. They managed to create antifa super soldiers, EU immigrants and refugee boats out of thin air, your nan's tortured soul would be a walk in the park by comparison.
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Mar 15, 2023 10:19
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As a kid I once scared myself shitless and lay in bed crying for hours too afraid to move because I thought I saw a ghost in my granny's caravan. Turns out she'd just set up a clothes horse right outside the bedroom door which I, getting up to go to the toilet, apparently thought looked like a spook in the moonlight. Very embarrassing all round!
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Mar 15, 2023 10:21
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Brendan Rodgers posted:Even if there are cases where there is no answer, that answer doesn't default to ghosts. it actually does and if you don't watch your mouth you're gonna get a hauntin' 
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Mar 15, 2023 10:54
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Testro posted:Out of interest, do you know if the funding was enough historically, when the policies were first brought in? As far as I am aware the funding for the free hours not covering the costs is not a recent thing. Many nurseries charge a supplement to help cover the costs, though at ours I think it's not compulsory if you can't afford it. One thing to note is the free 30 hours is over term times only. So if you use a non term time only nursery it only works out to about 20 free hours a week when spread over the whole year.
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Mar 15, 2023 10:56
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There being ghosts is probably less scary a thing to believe than there being a species that runs on about 80% of its sensory input being made up on the fly that also has access to HGVs and nuclear missiles.Kin posted:It's almost like ghosts are a figment of people's imagination and the cultural style of one is purely based on what knowledge someone has.
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Mar 15, 2023 10:57
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My mum claims to have regularly seen the ghost of a woman sitting on the stairs of her old house. Pretty sure she was experiencing some form of psychosis at the time brought on by pregnancy.
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Mar 15, 2023 10:58
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keep punching joe posted:My mum claims to have regularly seen the ghost of a woman sitting on the stairs of her old house. Or the ghost of the old woman entered your foetal body and animates you now
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Mar 15, 2023 10:59
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quote:There are noises or images, they are witnessed, they pass on. smells too in my experience
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Mar 15, 2023 11:02
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It would've been my older sister if anything. She also claims to have hallucinated legless sausage dogs climbing the walls when she was pregnant with my sister. I assume they used to give pregnant women some wild rear end drugs in the 60s and 70s.
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Mar 15, 2023 11:04
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keep punching joe posted:It would've been my older sister if anything. When my sister was giving birth to my oldest nephew (mid 80s), they gave her pethedrine (IIRC) and she said "Now I know why {name of youngest brother} does all those drugs!"
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Mar 15, 2023 11:09
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I'm a Ghost, cursed by bad posting to haunt the thread with more bad and often aggro posts
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Mar 15, 2023 11:10
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Something something stay safe poverty ghost. I don't even know how that meme came about.
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Mar 15, 2023 11:12
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I don't believe in ghosts, at least in the conventional sense... but I have an unexplained 'thing' on a 35mm photo in my possession from 2005 It's from a roll of film that a filmmaker friend and a hired photographer took over the space of an hour to set up location shots at the boathouse at Radford Lake for the eventual shoot. All of the photos are normal apart from this frame:  Zoom  Enhance.  He said nobody could have walked into the shot without him or the photographer noticing. I even went to the location myself to try to work out a logical explanation, and there isn't one. He got really spooked by this picture, and it took a lot of persuasion to stop him burning the prints and negatives as he had a lot of superstitious beliefs. In the end I made it a condition of me providing a film score for one of his finished short movies (which I was going to do for him free in any case). There is a famous legend of a ghost called the 'White Lady' at the lake, and the nearest road is actually called 'White Lady Road'.  I have no explanations but it makes for a nice picture on the wall. I still have the negatives too. e: I found an archive of the entire roll uploaded on flickr. I'm not sure if by me or someone else https://www.flickr.com/photos/23921876@N08/sets/72157616770306444/ fuctifino fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 11:21
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fuctifino posted:I don't believe in ghosts, at least in the conventional sense... but I have an unexplained 'thing' on a 35mm photo in my possession from 2005 That ghost looks like he's going taps aff.
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Mar 15, 2023 11:22
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As a child I once read a book about 'real cases of ghosts' in a Scottish B&B and it hosed up my sleep for weeks.
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Mar 15, 2023 11:23
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