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tsob posted:Is it? 'Cause just the suggestion that Master Asia might be more popular than Kamille of all people seems weird to me. I prefer Master Asia personally, but Kamille is a very popular character from a much more popular show, so Kamille proving more popular than Master Asia in a poll is not remotely surprising. master asia is a very fun character that people seem to exclusively regard fondly, and g gundam's western exposure helps him a lot too. kamille i think i tend to see more disagreement on if he's an enjoyable character (most people i personally know seem to rather dislike him even though i love the little poo poo) and for whatever talk there is of being from a more popular show the zz characters are loving crushing it in this poll. so i was expecting an easy win for master asia obviously i was wrong lol
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Mar 15, 2023 14:29
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Kamille is the best Gundam protagonist. gently caress the haters
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Mar 15, 2023 15:04
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anyone who impulsively steals a car only to get distracted and abandon it on the side of the road seconds later is a great protagonist and i wish more shows took a note from kamille's introductory episode
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Mar 15, 2023 15:12
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Populon posted:Kamille is the best Gundam protagonist. gently caress the haters I first watched Zeta coming straight off of MSG, basically marathoning the big three UC series, the OVAs and CCA straight through to unicorn and I came away really hating Kamille and liking Judau a lot more, but basically any other context I engage the series my opinions on the two characters, and series as a whole, shifts more and more.
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Mar 15, 2023 15:38
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Judau is the throat goat of the UC, how can you not love him 
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Mar 15, 2023 16:08
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Nuebot posted:I first watched Zeta coming straight off of MSG, basically marathoning the big three UC series, the OVAs and CCA straight through to unicorn and I came away really hating Kamille and liking Judau a lot more, but basically any other context I engage the series my opinions on the two characters, and series as a whole, shifts more and more. Judau's more of a straightforward hero than Kamille or Amuro. At first I thought he wasn't as sophisticated a character because he's the youngest of the three but acts the oldest, but it makes sense since he's had to take a lot more responsibility than the other two. His backstory is a little too clean for my taste though. He feels like more of a standard anime protagonist. Uso is actually my favorite Gundam boy. He's got Judau's unselfish down-to-Earth vibe (no pun intended) but his youth and naivete really bring out that feeling you get in early Gundam protagonists that they're trapped and disempowered in the role of the Gundam pilot. All he can do is get keep getting better at killing and it never seems to help.
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Mar 15, 2023 16:23
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Populon posted:Kamille is the best Gundam protagonist. gently caress the haters He was great from the jump literally he gets jumped by fascists and punches them square in the face. Kamille is the best, he does not take poo poo he dishes it out.
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Mar 15, 2023 16:55
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Even so
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Mar 15, 2023 16:56
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The Notorious ZSB posted:He was great from the jump literally he gets jumped by fascists and punches them square in the face. Kamille is the best, he does not take poo poo he dishes it out. He doesn't "get jumped" by fascists; he confronts a fascist and that fascist and his friends attack Kamille for doing so. Which makes him better if anything, but then, the reason he confronted the fascist in the first place was because he felt personally insulted about being called girly rather than because of anything to do with said fascism, which kind of undermines Kamille punching cops and fascists for being bastards.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:08
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tsob posted:Yeah, I just took the word "real" in your post the wrong way ultimately. As I said, the poll is insanely hosed. Mashymere beat Mika
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Mar 15, 2023 17:13
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Kamille is both petty and has absolutely no respect for authority in episode 1. To an extent punching fascists is a natural consequence of this but he definitely was not doing it as a form of political activism. He just didn't like those fascists so he went and did something about it. Antifascism is both more than tangential/coincidental and also not really his motivation. Good on him for seeing fascism and without any substantial political ideology immediately recognizing that they deserve a punch in the face.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:19
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tsob posted:He doesn't "get jumped" by fascists; he confronts a fascist and that fascist and his friends attack Kamille for doing so. Which makes him better if anything, but then, the reason he confronted the fascist in the first place was because he felt personally insulted about being called girly rather than because of anything to do with said fascism, which kind of undermines Kamille punching cops and fascists for being bastards. He gets cornered by the titans, did he literally get jumped no, but you being endlessly pedantic is so loving tiring in here. Him punching them is personal but it doesn't change their alignment or that becoming fundamentally his opposition to them. They don't treat others with respect and Kamille doesn't brook that poo poo, even though it takes him at least half the series to really figure this out himself (wrt to how he engages with Fa and others until after Four gets killed in my estimation is what finally makes that click for him).
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Mar 15, 2023 17:21
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ninjewtsu posted:Kamille is both petty and has absolutely no respect for authority in episode 1. To an extent punching fascists is a natural consequence of this but he definitely was not doing it as a form of political activism. He just didn't like those fascists so he went and did something about it. Antifascism is both more than tangential/coincidental and also not really his motivation. Good on him for seeing fascism and without any substantial political ideology immediately recognizing that they deserve a punch in the face. Kamille does actually seem to have some political leanings even early on in that he reads underground magazines to know about AEUG; it's just not his motivation in that one scene, or even a major motivation for him in general until a ways into the show as you said. The Notorious ZSB posted:He gets cornered by the titans, did he literally get jumped no, but you being endlessly pedantic is so loving tiring in here. I think there's a pretty fundamental difference between "they ambushed him" and "he confronted them" that speaks to Kamille's character.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:27
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tsob posted:Kamille does actually seem to have some political leanings even early on in that he reads underground magazines to know about AEUG; it's just not his motivation in that one scene, or even a major motivation for him in general until a ways into the show as you said. He confronted them cause they blocked his way and talked poo poo. What is so hard about that sequence to realize they're the instigators? I'll even agree with your difference in what it means to his character but its not accurate to describe the Titans as just innocent bystanders not antagonist instigators who created the situation he responded to. Its not like he chose to confront them in passing. They hosed around and found out.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:35
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I'm not sure how you misinterpret the chain of events: 1. Kamille overhears Jerid say "I swear I heard a girl's name..." 2. Kamille goes over, says "gently caress you say?" and hauls off on him. 3. Jerid's toadies clobber Kamille and haul him off to the gulag. Kamille absolutely went in and escalated. But his only mistake was being outnumbered. If I went up and decked a dude, I am not "getting jumped" if that dude and his two mates swing back on me.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:39
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No kamille definitely goes off course when he hears jerid call him a girl
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Mar 15, 2023 17:39
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The Notorious ZSB posted:Its not like he chose to confront them in passing. They hosed around and found out. That's actually exactly how I would describe it. He was passing by a bunch of Titans and heard one of them insult him, which the one in particular assumed would go uncontested since they were a group of fascist police/military officers and Jerid probaby felt that made him untouchable; instead Kamille called him out and started a fight over it. They are not innocent bystanders by any stretch, but Kamille was not forced into that situation to any degree either and a lot of people would have let it slide because being called girly isn't worth starting a fight over someone with; fascist or otherwise.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:39
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Kamille is great, partly because he's just a regular lovely teen who gets radicalized by circumstance. And he continues to act that way throughout the whole show! He never "settles down" and becomes a regular soldier or anything. He is neither a dyed-in-the-wool idelogue or someone completely swept up in the situation with no agency at all. It's kind of a mix of things, which makes it more interesting.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:41
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I guess im just misrembering the scene then. vv: clearly i am, im wrong its fine its been a while since i watched zeta The Notorious ZSB fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 17:43
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The Notorious ZSB posted:He confronted them cause they blocked his way and talked poo poo. What is so hard about that sequence to realize they're the instigators? I'll even agree with your difference in what it means to his character but its not accurate to describe the Titans as just innocent bystanders not antagonist instigators who created the situation he responded to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-7zMBrW1SI I think it's pretty clear who picked a fight with who here
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Mar 15, 2023 17:43
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Arguably Jerid wasn't even being malicious with his comment, he just makes an observation to the other Titan guy The Titans are bad guys and deserve to get punched for being Titans. And Kamille had an existing politically-motivated distaste for the Titans for valid reasons. But it's pretty important to Kamille's character arc that he hauls off and punches a cop based on practically nothing.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:47
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Gripweed posted:As I said, the poll is insanely hosed. Mashymere beat Mika manlets seething
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Mar 15, 2023 17:50
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Kamille's entire chain of behavior in the first couple of episodes is utterly deranged psychotic break behavior that ends up being totally fine entirely because the targets of it were horrible fascist brownshirt bastards. I'm just picturing the girl's name scene except instead of Jerid it's just some random salaryman making the comment instead and it's funny as hell.
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Mar 15, 2023 17:51
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AU where bright thinks it to himself and kamille ends up joining the titans then defecting to neo zeon when they show up
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Mar 15, 2023 17:54
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tsob posted:Yeah, I just took the word "real" in your post the wrong way ultimately. Suletta winning would be factually correct, though 
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Mar 15, 2023 18:13
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Supremezero posted:Aerial winning would be factually correct, though 
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Mar 15, 2023 18:14
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Warmachine posted:Kamille absolutely went in and escalated. But his only mistake was being outnumbered. If I went up and decked a dude, I am not "getting jumped" if that dude and his two mates swing back on me. To be fair his mistake was being really outnumbered. He seems be doing fine against a few of them, it's the guy he didn't notice behind him that ruins it for him.
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Mar 15, 2023 20:35
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Gripweed posted:That best Gundam character twitter poll is insanely hosed up but it does look like the final to decide the best Gundam character will be Katejina vs Puru. https://mobile.twitter.com/Aaron_the_BLM/status/1631324502817644546
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Mar 15, 2023 20:58
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Kanos posted:Kamille's entire chain of behavior in the first couple of episodes is utterly deranged psychotic break behavior that ends up being totally fine entirely because the targets of it were horrible fascist brownshirt bastards. The attacking Jerid thing isn't even the most deranged part. It's how his mom comes to bail him out, and despite his attacking a fascist he's gonna be in the clear, but he chooses to pick a fight with the guys holding him, necessitating the aforementioned car stealing. I wathed MSG then 08th MS Team then Zeta back in 2014. Kamille was my favorite from the start. As somebody told me back then "if Kamille hadn't joined up with the AEUG, he probably would have climbed the nearest tower with a bag full of guns."
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Mar 15, 2023 21:16
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It ultimately does make sense, Kamille is a military brat who's parents are both engineers for the Titans and is familiar enough with them to the point where some of the base personnel know him by name. Who and what Kamille's parents are working for are a huge point of tension for him (this is on top of his dad cheating, and both his parents neglecting him) and he's clearly been simmering over this for a while. His actions may not be rational, but his feelings are justified.
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Mar 15, 2023 21:26
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I'm just gonna stand by the core of my sentiment which is; Kamille kicks rear end
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Mar 15, 2023 21:41
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NikkolasKing posted:The attacking Jerid thing isn't even the most deranged part. It's how his mom comes to bail him out, and despite his attacking a fascist he's gonna be in the clear, but he chooses to pick a fight with the guys holding him, necessitating the aforementioned car stealing. kamille punching a titan officer the moment that same titan officer tells him "ok we'll let you off with a warning for assaulting a titan officer" is a really underappreciated sequence imo
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Mar 15, 2023 22:14
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Speaking of Zeta Gundam, I was pretty devastated to learn earlier today that Char's iconic "I've never betrayed anyone in my life" line is actually more literally just "I never betrayed you (Haman)", and the English translation including "anyone in my life" is really just elaboration on the translators part. Maybe artistic flair, depending on your point of view.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:45
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I'd chalk that up to adaptation improving on the original. It's such a good line in English and fits so well with Char.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:47
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tsob posted:Speaking of Zeta Gundam, I was pretty devastated to learn earlier today that Char's iconic "I've never betrayed anyone in my life" line is actually more literally just "I never betrayed you (Haman)", and the English translation including "anyone in my life" is really just elaboration on the translators part. Maybe artistic flair, depending on your point of view. The fact he adds "Ever!" for painfully hypocritical emphasis was what really got my gander up. Char had been so cool in that episode, too! Not letting Haman use Mineva like a puppet for her insane war and imperialism. Then he had to go and do this poo poo, reminding me of how much I hated him for killing Garma.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:57
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He has technically never betrayed anyone, Garma wasn't a betrayel
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Mar 15, 2023 23:00
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Tae posted:He has technically never betrayed anyone, Garma wasn't a betrayel I don't even think "technically" works here. He deliberately lies to Garma about the White Base's position to put him in a terrible spot and then laughs at him over the communicator about it. Unless you're going with the "Char was never on Garma's side anyway so it doesn't count as a betrayal", I guess, but I'd still say "faking being someone's best friend solely to opportunistically gently caress them over at an unspecified later date" counts.
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Mar 15, 2023 23:04
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Char isn't even consistent with his hateboner for the Zabis. He abandons his whole quest for revenge once Lalah is there, then she dies and he only opportunistically kills Kycilia in the end. Dude is a prick through-and-through. Laughing at Garma is the sign of a psycho, and the fact he ultimately cared so little about his vengeance that he gave it up right after doing that, just proves he is without any admirable qualities whatsoever. Someone committed to a wrong path can still be admirable. You can say "Char loved his father that much." Only he plainly didn't. He's just a bastard looking for an excuse to be a bastard.
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Mar 15, 2023 23:13
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Giving up your quest for vengeance when you fall in love is a negative trait now?
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Mar 15, 2023 23:21
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Gaius Marius posted:Giving up your quest for vengeance when you fall in love is a negative trait now? He doesn't give it up for love, he gives it up because he becomes obsessed with defeating the RX-78-2 since he feels ashamed to have been defeated by it multiple times in the past and wants to recover his pride. We know for multiple reasons, most prominently that he re-enters the show spying on the White Base before telling a subordinate flat out that he wants to defeat the RX-78-2 because of his own pride, regardless of how foolish it is and then disobeys his orders. He became part of Kycilia's forces after she recruited him when Dozle kicked him out of his forces for failing to protect Garma, and she then ordered him to patrol the African coast, but when he spots the White Base he instead follows it in order to fight the Gundam again. He knows they're going to Jaburo, since it's the only real destination they could have crossing the Atlantic, but finding Jaburo is blatantly not his goal. It works out regardless, because he does find the entrance to Jaburo but he loses to (or draws, depending on how generous you want to be) the Gundam again and continues to follow it; this time to space. Where Dren, the one guy we've seen him share anything of himself with, is killed trying to help him against the White Base. After which he recruits Lalah, and starts by having her study the Gundam in action. He is very obviously bringing her in to help him defeat the Gundam, and outright asks her to help him do so several times. Including after she has died. He fell for her when she was there, but he did not bring her into things or abandon his quest for the Zabis for Lalah and Lalah's death was not what drove him to obsess over the Gundam either, though that's a common view. Her death intensified his desire to defeat the Gundam, but it is not the basis for it. It's only when he's forced to admit that he can't kill Amuro after failing repeatedly that he finally gives up, and then immediately comes across information that Kycilia is alive and goes "Huh, forgot about that!".
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Mar 15, 2023 23:30
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