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Madurai posted:What's the Rocket Bomb equivalent for Lucifer? Triple Bomb isn't unique to Lucifer but it's my favourite Hammer for it. If I can pop out three Hellfire spheres at once I usually don't even need to use Attack after getting that Hammer.
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Mar 6, 2023 19:55
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Lobok posted:Triple Bomb isn't unique to Lucifer but it's my favourite Hammer for it. If I can pop out three Hellfire spheres at once I usually don't even need to use Attack after getting that Hammer. I've gotten good use out of that, yes--I was just wondering if there was a unique efffect for Rocket, since the hidden aspects tend to have bespoke Hammers.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:04
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i need some Hades 2 news. Dying to know when it comes out in EA
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Mar 6, 2023 20:11
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Madurai posted:I've gotten good use out of that, yes--I was just wondering if there was a unique efffect for Rocket, since the hidden aspects tend to have bespoke Hammers. Oh, like what are the Hammers unique to Lucifer? I thought you were just saying Rocket Bomb as in the consensus, kickin' rad Hammer. 
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Mar 6, 2023 20:24
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The "best" unique hammer for Lucifer is probably Flash Fire, since it significantly reduces the lag time between triggering an attack and the beam beginning to fire. Eternal Chamber is situationally useful with attack boons who get their primary damage from secondary effects and so don't really care about ramping (Zeus, Dire Misfortune doom stacking, etc). Triple Beam can be nice for crowd control but you can only ever hit an enemy with one beam at a time: even if you get right next to a big enemy and it visually looks like all three are hitting them, you only get credit for one beam's worth of damage. You can actually get Greater Inferno to put out stupid damage by picking a high damage special boon like Aphro + chaos special boons + triple bomb, but in my experience even if you get everything right it's kinda awkward to use because it relies on not detonating the hellfire bombs and your enemy staying in the sameish area for a while. Concentrated Beam sounds nice but the ramp damage is fixed at +0.75 per tick no matter what boons you have on the attack which falls off pretty hard from Elysium onward in my experience.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:36
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ScootsMcSkirt posted:i need some Hades 2 news. Dying to know when it comes out in EA I'm expecting that it'll probably be a year before it even comes to Playstation but maybe they'll have a short EA release window and have a launch on all platforms at the same time? I'm a hopeful dude.
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Mar 7, 2023 18:16
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I cannot kill the forth zone boss. It's so frustrating to just fail over and over again. I've only succeeded once. And it's not even like I can easily practice, since it takes so long just to get there. The spin attack especially gives me trouble, since you can't always dash away in time, since it's so big. I'm assuming that you are supposed to time the dash so that the iframes overlap the attack, but the timing isn't clear to me. I tried to practice on the 3rd zone boss, since they also have a similar spin attack, but I couldn't even get the timing down there.
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Mar 17, 2023 07:29
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If you dash on the wind up you'll get hit. Try walking away from him as he winds up and then dashing. IIRC it's also not a perfect 360 and if you dash through him that works too although it's been a long time so I could be remembering wrong
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Mar 17, 2023 07:36
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To time your dodge’s i-frames correctly versus the spin attack, you need to dash into it a bit later than you’d think. Or, at any rate, that’s how I managed to avoid it with reasonable consistency.
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Mar 17, 2023 07:36
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Yeah the spin attack is specifically timed to gently caress with you by punishing if you dash as soon as you see the tell for it. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but try taking one level of Forced Overtime. It increases enemy move and attack speed by 20%, which makes most enemies a bit trickier since all their stuff comes out faster, but ironically makes the final boss easier because it speeds up the intentional delay enough that if you start spamming dashes as soon as you see the tell, you should just avoid the spin.
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Mar 17, 2023 07:53
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Sydin posted:Yeah the spin attack is specifically timed to gently caress with you by punishing if you dash as soon as you see the tell for it. They can't take Force Overtime unless they beat the forth boss at least once, so that's no help.
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Mar 17, 2023 08:35
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They said they beat them once though, unless I'm misreading:Nebrilos posted:I cannot kill the forth zone boss. It's so frustrating to just fail over and over again. I've only succeeded once. And it's not even like I can easily practice, since it takes so long just to get there. The spin attack especially gives me trouble, since you can't always dash away in time, since it's so big. I'm assuming that you are supposed to time the dash so that the iframes overlap the attack, but the timing isn't clear to me. I tried to practice on the 3rd zone boss, since they also have a similar spin attack, but I couldn't even get the timing down there.
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Mar 17, 2023 08:42
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Also: are you using the 1 refreshing Death Defiance, or the 3 not-refreshing ones? If you use the 3 not-refreshing ones, and you do reasonably well (and/or buy back DDs with Athena/Well of Charon) then you can often tank your way through whatever you can't dodge in the final fight.
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Mar 17, 2023 09:30
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Just turn on god mode my dude.
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Mar 17, 2023 09:40
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Why is Zagrius so weak, anyways? He's the son of the god of the dead. Why does he need so much help from other gods just to fight, say, a Furie or a dead hero?Hobbes posted:Just turn on god mode my dude. I can't. That's like giving up. It's weird. I never had this much trouble with Bastion or Transistor. Why is this game so much harder?
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Mar 17, 2023 09:49
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He's not weak, he's just specialized in his family's divine portfolio, which is mostly about dying.
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Mar 17, 2023 10:48
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Nebrilos posted:Why is Zagrius so weak, anyways? He's the son of the god of the dead. Why does he need so much help from other gods just to fight, say, a Furie or a dead hero? Game mechanics are game mechanics. Though not every god in greek myth is powerful, and the real world stories on Zagreus suggest that he is a god with very close connections to humanity. For what few stories there are. So I can see it being interpreted that his abilities shouldn't be that far beyond a human's. Also Zagreus wasn't the first idea for the MC. Someone like Theseus was originally going to be the MC, and the change to Zag came later on. So I'm sure that influenced the mechanics some in the early stages of the game. You have your choice of possible reasons for why Zag might be "weak". The game is harder than their other titles because the tuning of this game is better overall. Unlike Bastion and Transistor this game had a lengthy early access phase where they had a lot of players testing things. They spent over a year just constantly rebalancing things. So I imagine this kind of difficulty curve is closer to what they would have wanted for the other games too. The last boss is the last boss, and should be difficult but you do have god mode for players who get stuck. Though with a little more practice the last boss isn't too bad. You just have to find a build that works for you and get a handle on his gimmicks. If it's the spin attack that's constantly a problem maybe try focusing on ranged weapons, so all you have to do is worry about moving out of the way when he dashes to you. There's some strong hera bow and hestia rail builds, you could try some of those. Or a caster focused build with Demeter since that can also do damage without you needing to be close to him. JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Mar 17, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 10:56
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Tbh I think this game is harder entirely because death isn’t a fail state in the conventional sense; yeah you don’t progress towards the credits by wiping to the last boss or anywhere below that, but you still get fun conversations. Also because there’s a big difference between basic chump first run Zag and a tricked out mirror one, and failed runs still give you Darkness so the player is constantly edging their way to the point where they have the odds stacked way in their favor. tldr: they want you to eat poo poo a lot to see all the NPC dialogue, imho
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Mar 17, 2023 11:27
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Nebrilos posted:Why is Zagrius so weak, anyways? He's the son of the god of the dead. Why does he need so much help from other gods just to fight, say, a Furie or a dead hero? All of these people are related to gods in some way, the difference isn't as stark as it appears. Also they have more experience fighting than he does. e: And Zagreus is only 3/4th of a god, Persephone's father was a mortal instead of Zeus in this version. He's more human as a result, which is why he bleeds normal blood instead of divine ichor. YaketySass fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Mar 17, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 11:44
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Three or more dashes is a huge help against most bosses, especially avoiding the last boss' spin attack. Even if you miss the proper timing the extra dashes can give you the distance to avoid the attack.
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Mar 17, 2023 13:48
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I think it’s also implied that he’s still quite young and hasn’t fully grown into his power either
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Mar 17, 2023 17:02
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christmas boots posted:I think it’s also implied that he’s still quite young and hasn’t fully grown into his power either Probably, considering that Demeter has cast the world into eternal winter, and the mortals aren't all dead yet.
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Mar 17, 2023 17:39
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It's almost like God Mode isn't a cheat, but is supposed to show Zag coming into his power.
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Mar 17, 2023 17:40
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YaketySass posted:All of these people are related to gods in some way, the difference isn't as stark as it appears. Also they have more experience fighting than he does. Some super endgame spoilers: it's heavily implied the reason Zagreus bleeds normal blood (and also has his unique bloodstone ability) is because he is himself the God of Blood. There are some very late dialogues after you fill the codex up where Achilles will float this hypothesis, and Ares will also recognize Zag's nature after a certain point and will even yell "You face the gods of war and blood!" if you use his call. Nebrilos posted:Why is Zagrius so weak, anyways? He's the son of the god of the dead. Why does he need so much help from other gods just to fight, say, a Furie or a dead hero? He's a relatively young god who while being trained by Achilles spent most of his time prior to the start of the game being a beleaguered paper pusher or lazing the ages away in his bedroom. All the other beings he fights meanwhile are hardened warriors and/or have some manner of duty inextricably links them to constant violence.
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Mar 17, 2023 17:47
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I'm pretty sure Zagreus has a voice line where he calls himself the god of blood.
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Mar 17, 2023 17:49
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Wittgen posted:I'm pretty sure Zagreus has a voice line where he calls himself the god of blood. He's quoting Achilles, who calls him that in the Codex
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Mar 17, 2023 17:52
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Is he that weak? How many people in this thread can say they've beaten up their dad?
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Mar 17, 2023 18:32
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Nebrilos posted:Why is Zagrius so weak, anyways? He's the son of the god of the dead. Why does he need so much help from other gods just to fight, say, a Furie or a dead hero? At the start of the game he's coming up from an unspecified amount of years of depression and a LOT of learned helplessness since Hades really had no clue how to process Persephone not being there. Those kinds of issues are a millstone the size of Sisyphus' boulder and it takes a while to shake that them off, representing the player slowly getting a clue Edit: just look at the difference between depressed standard Dad just going through the motions versus EM4 Super Saiyajin Dad. Also this is a mythology where a skilled mortal can school a god in their (the god's) chosen area of expertise*, dead Greek heroes are a force to be reckoned with. *The mortal surviving the retaliation is another matter altogether Omobono fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Mar 17, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 18:49
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The actual reason that Zagreus is weak / the game is much harder than previous Supergiant Games: 1. it's a roguelite, it's supposed to start stupid hard and get easier as you grind up. 2. it was in early access for a couple years getting tuned by player feedback, and the thing about that process is your biggest source of feedback is players who are obsessing over the game and playing a lot of it. And Supergiant themselves seem to play a lot of their own games and actually get good at them. Bastion and Transistor had difficulty designed for a normal player* and then optional ways to add difficulty. Hades also has a little of that -- Erebus gates, Charon, and various special dialogue and such that you don't see unless you do hard runs. But it also has God Mode, and god mode is a thing you're supposed to use if you feel frustrated. *though plenty of people who didn't play many games of that type still felt they were pretty difficult, Bastion especially I remember some people saying that
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Mar 17, 2023 20:52
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Bastion's controls (and visual feedback) are imprecise in a couple of small but crucial ways that were basically polished out of existence in Hades, despite the two games being extremely similar in many ways. It's an easier game, but still a more frustrating one. e: and then Transistor is just a bad game on a basic mechanical level, held up entirely by Supergiant's 11/10 presentation. Easily the best soundtrack of anything they've ever made but the game's core gimmick should have stayed on the cutting room floor. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 17, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 21:09
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Armok is the only god of blood 
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Mar 17, 2023 21:58
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Nebrilos posted:
Sometimes it comes down to personal style and preference. Hades wa smy first roguelike and after some early struggle, I was doing really well and beat Dad on my second try. Being able to decide your weapon for a run (and even influence the first god that gives boons) helped me deal with the random stuff a LOT. Recently, I got Dead Cells, which was praised to the skies, and it's a great game...but I'm SO MUCH WORSE at it. The fully random weapon drops, the dichotomy of going fast vs. exploring for buffs, and the scaling damage brutalizing you further on if you didn't get a good build really mess me up. In Hades I can just get my favorites (Spear and Fists) if I want to push things safely. Dead Cells, sometimes you go several runs in a roll with weird weapons you hate, which means you also get less fast/no-hit runs, and grow slower. Lots of people like the full-on dice roll, but I prefer Hades' style a lot more.
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Mar 17, 2023 22:02
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A big thing with Hades is that once you've unlocked a decent amount of Olympian keepsakes, you can eliminate a big chunk of the randomness and do entire runs around an intended build that you can pretty much always get at least 50% of the way towards. And once you get far enough down the mirror to have a couple Fated Persuasion rolls you're going to have more runs where you get what you want than not.
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Mar 17, 2023 23:25
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I had some fun grinding out a (0 heat tbf) (nearly) no mirror no boons run. The biggest problem I had was not collecting too many boons to purge them all. I eventually broke down and gave myself some room rerolls on the mirror so I could reroll away from boon rooms. Definitely felt fun beating up Hades with 0 Olympian or Nyx aid.
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Mar 17, 2023 23:49
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I think it would help a lot if the game explained what its "God Mode" is. Most games use that term for the "remove all challenge" option, not a relatively minor defense boost that nonetheless actually allows you to see the game.
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Mar 17, 2023 23:50
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KittyEmpress posted:I had some fun grinding out a (0 heat tbf) (nearly) no mirror no boons run. The biggest problem I had was not collecting too many boons to purge them all. I eventually broke down and gave myself some room rerolls on the mirror so I could reroll away from boon rooms. The worst part about that kind of run is Styx, because if you don't get a two sac you're almost guaranteed to be forced to choose a boon door and there's no more ability to purge at that point. Really sucks to grind out a good run and then get hosed by RNG right before the finish line.
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Mar 18, 2023 00:01
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Byzantine posted:I think it would help a lot if the game explained what its "God Mode" is. Most games use that term for the "remove all challenge" option, not a relatively minor defense boost that nonetheless actually allows you to see the game. I hear it grants damage resistance that scales up the more you lose, up to 80% damage resistance. How is that minor?
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Mar 18, 2023 01:25
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I also fought my way through the underworld and beat up Hades without help from Olympus. Seems like Zag is OP when you git gud 
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Mar 18, 2023 01:39
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Nebrilos posted:I hear it grants damage resistance that scales up the more you lose, up to 80% damage resistance. How is that minor? it takes a lot of loving up to get to that point. it starts off very very small.
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Mar 18, 2023 02:09
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Nebrilos posted:I hear it grants damage resistance that scales up the more you lose, up to 80% damage resistance. How is that minor? It starts off at 20% and only goes up by 2% each time you fail.
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Mar 18, 2023 02:52
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