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nine-gear crow posted:It's a shame that it doesn't get the chance to go mask off sooner in the series because of the status quo because I think Tom's Yeerk would have been a pretty good recurring villain with just what a shitbag he is. Even moreso than Taylor, the perfect blend of a shitlord teenager and a Star Trek-tier local galactic menace ala someone like Gul Dukat, the guy who's doing the "How do you do, Fellow Kids?" act purely because he's so able to perfectly pull it off otherwise that he now has to make a smarmy show out of it just to go "Yeah, we both get it, it's pure bullshit, but now I get to have FUN with it ". Yes that is exact vibe I get from him. Gul Dukat vibes. Really would have been a fun recurring antagonist. I'm imagining if Jake and Tom had hit some unlikely Cold War MAD situation where they both openly knew about the other but had to playact to not let the Yeerks know. You could have like Rachel or Cassie or Marco doing some ill-advised covert op to gently caress with him, lots of fun family scenes, etc.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 00:35 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 19:06 |
That would have made a wonderful interplay, yeah. I can't really think how you could believably pull it off without being in the endgame phase of the war though
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 00:43 |
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The problem is, the only time this Yeerk is a major part of the story until now is when Jake's great-grandfather dies, Jake and "Tom" do have a good conversation there about morality in war, though,
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 00:43 |
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Yeah, for as important as Tom was to Jake at the beginning of the series he basically doesn't exist between book 6 and dead great-Grandpa book. Largely because Jake only gets 20% of the books amd we were stuck in ghost writer status quo for a long rear end time. I think this last arc could have been extended a bit because there are A Lot of concepts and cool hooks that got slammed in here at the end without any room to breathe. Tom's a big one but the auxillery Animorphs and human allies are also like barely there before we're zooming off to the next thing. And you have things like the Yeerk Peace Movement that would have been worth a lot more than Helmecrons II. Easily could have cut a bunch of the MotW books and just had this stuff happen over a longer stretch of books.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 00:51 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:That would have made a wonderful interplay, yeah. I can't really think how you could believably pull it off without being in the endgame phase of the war though You'd have to make Tom's Yeerk more of a wildcard with his own agenda, one that would be actively hampered by just turning Jake and the others over to Visser Three or just outright killing them, yet not hampered enough or even helped at times by letting them live and act freely as the Animorphs. Like Taylor, but even more of a canny ratfuck. With the counter balance being basically what it is in books, where if Jake tries to move against Tom directly, the whole house of cards collapses because he will out himself to the actual Yeerks as an Animorph. So they have to reach a Cold War equilibrium. To the point where when the series shifts to the endgame phase, the loss of the status quo is equally devastating to Tom and his Yeerk as it is to Jake. E: You'd probably have to do a couple of Tom POV books interspersed every so often with the mainline books like how you got the occasional Dukat-centric episode of DS9 before things flew off the rails. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Mar 17, 2023 |
# ? Mar 17, 2023 01:24 |
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Epicurius posted:Marco cares too much for his friends and his family to sacrifice them, even if that's the easiest way. Stepmom's fair game, though
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 02:31 |
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Fuschia tude posted:Stepmom's fair game, though That poor math teacher. But that's another case of Marco letting his private emotions get in the way,.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 02:58 |
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Chapter 16quote:It took all day to get my chess pieces in place. The hardest one was Erek the Chee. Jake is willing to burn all of his relationships here. But, if nothing else, he's made an enemy of the Chee here. That might not seem like much, as the Chee are non-violent, but they're also superintelligent robots with photographic memories who are virtually indestructible Chapter 17 quote:I was in falcon morph, floating high, high in the air, rising on the updraft of warmth that still came from the smoldering ashes of the center of town. Usually night is a bad time for a peregrine. Night air is cold air and cold air is dead air. But flying above the black destruction I had all the lift I “Forward, the Light Brigade!” Was there a man dismayed? Not though the soldier knew Someone had blundered. Theirs not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die. Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 03:19 |
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Tom Good chat with the general too-- "Hey General I'm less than half your age, but I need you to run a suicide mission. K? Thanks." The details about the Controllers breaking in the base could have been an entire side book of its own goddamn.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 04:07 |
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"This thing came out of the bullet hole in his skull." Unreal.mind the walrus posted:Tom lol
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 04:13 |
Bruce Dickinson posted:"Into the valley of death https://youtu.be/6leuyjRmCMA
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 04:21 |
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Jesus, no wonder Jake thinks he's a monster. I forgot most of these details.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 12:36 |
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Capfalcon posted:Jesus, no wonder Jake thinks he's a monster. I forgot most of these details. Epicurius posted:
When Jake said this, you could argue that he hadn't yet done anything that would necessarily prevent him from being "done with it forever." In, like, a day, he's now done three of those things.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 13:15 |
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Jake posted:I was in falcon morph, floating high, high in the air, rising on the updraft of warmth that still came from the smoldering ashes of the center of town. Usually night is a bad time for a peregrine. Night air is cold air and cold air is dead air. But flying above the black destruction I had all the lift I needed. Even here, at the end of all things, there is still time to ride a thermal.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 16:46 |
mods please change my name to thermal of destruction
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 16:58 |
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Chapter 16 is unforgettable on the re read once you know how it turns out. It's hard to argue that the ends don't justify the means, but blackmailing the Chee into submission and forcibly sending the Auxiliary Animorphs into what ends up being a suicide mission is still incredibly hosed up.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 17:29 |
I don't know why his manipulation of Erik feels so much worse than killing however many innocents with the yeerk pool destruction, but it does.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 18:21 |
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Soonmot posted:I don't know why his manipulation of Erik feels so much worse than killing however many innocents with the yeerk pool destruction, but it does. I think a lot of it is that Erek is harmless. All of the Chee have been nothing but friends to the Animorphs, and he couldn't hurt Jake even if he wanted to, The Chee are innocents, who want nothing more than to take care of dogs in remembrance of their old masters and friends.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 19:06 |
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Soonmot posted:I don't know why his manipulation of Erik feels so much worse than killing however many innocents with the yeerk pool destruction, but it does. Unrelated people are faceless numbers. Erik a friend who had repeatedly helped them out and is being manipulated to act against a core belief by taking advantage of that same belief. It's incredibly cruel.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 19:18 |
Yup. It's cruel as all hell, and while Jake is acting for the right reasons, he's lost all sense of proportion. The Abyss is looking into him, big time.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 19:22 |
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God, I had forgotten how loving intense this moment is
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 19:57 |
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Tree Bucket posted:"This thing came out of the bullet hole in his skull." Unreal. I was ten the first time I read this book.
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# ? Mar 17, 2023 20:19 |
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Glad you're on the mend Epicurius, and stoked for the end of the series.Epicurius posted:Chapter 14 This is the maybe the hardest consequence of the war - while morphing is a perfect solution to the problem inherent in the Yeerks' biology, they've now bred an entire culture of militant fascists who've never known anything but war and domination and aren't interested in that kind of solution. OctaviusBeaver posted:I never really pinned Jake as the type that wouldn't be able to come home from war. I can definitely see Rachel having problems. And Tobias has literally nobody else in his life except the Animorphs. But Jake always seemed like the type of guy who comes home in 1945, marries his sweetheart and starts a successful Buick dealership. Yeah I 100% associate him with the "repressed trauma" Greatest Generation grandpa type. Mostly happy family, successful career, white picket fence - but never, ever talks about the war and his wife knows never to ask him about it. End book spoiler: It's interesting that Jake is the only one who sort of transitions. Tobias is at one extreme of "not coping," Marco/Cassie/Ax are at the other of "coping." Whereas Jake goes through a few years of hopeless self-loathing but is starting to get his life back on track by the end.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 00:39 |
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I feel like Chapman should have been in Tom's place in this book. He was a constant presence in this whole series, and his Yeerk's been poo poo on just as much as Tom's Yeerk. I suppose it being Tom makes it personal with Jake, because it gives him a chance to finally get his family out.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 00:47 |
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I think we've talked about this before a bit, but yeah the nothlit plan for taxxons and hork-bajir is, effectively, genocide. I mean it's... a nice genocide, in that they aren't dead and is presumably voluntary... but yeah it's just 'no more yeerks/taxxons'. and double is that it's 'become animals and live in the wilderness and be at the mercy of humans'. Like, taxxons can fly spaceships! I guess floating the idea of becoming human nothlits or hork-bajir would be too much though.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 02:16 |
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Star Man posted:I feel like Chapman should have been in Tom's place in this book. He was a constant presence in this whole series, and his Yeerk's been poo poo on just as much as Tom's Yeerk. I don't think Chapman is enough of a credible threat to play this role. He's only a serious obstacle in one or two books early on before transitioning to annoyance and then punching bag. Which is why I love that he's the hostage here! He's pathetic enough to get captured (and not even get any lines!) show how far beyond this school poo poo they are. It's not fair to hold a children's series to the standards of a style of TV that didn't even exist when it was coming out, but nowadays you'd want a series of escalating non-Visser One (nee Three) threats to deal with. Chapman for a couple books, then an enforcer maybe with a Hork-Bajir body, then the Yeerk equivalent of Internal Affairs fighting the Animorphs while investigating Visser Three, then tiny Helmacrons controlled by even tinier Yeerks, then Tom for a couple more books than he actually shows up in. I would give anything for a prestige TV style redo of this series. You don't even need to make it a single shade darker; we've already had a slug slithering out of a bullet hole and our heroes threatening to shoot a hostage. You just need a slower pace and have an idea of where you're going from the beginning. Mazerunner posted:I think we've talked about this before a bit, but yeah the nothlit plan for taxxons and hork-bajir is, effectively, genocide. I mean it's... a nice genocide, in that they aren't dead and is presumably voluntary... but yeah it's just 'no more yeerks/taxxons'. I wonder if those sorts of ideas might be too abstract for the series to tackle, in that there's not a neat real-world analogy at play. Cultural genocide is not quite the same thing, I think we're in totally sci-fi territory. The Taxxons hating dealing with the hunger and the Yeerks having to infest other beings to have a real existence mean that we're playing with different rules. For example (spoilers for later in the book): I think what Jake does at the end of this book is a justifiable act of war, even if his reasoning is not, for the simple fact that the way the Yeerks work mean that the only time you can kill one without killing an innocent being is when they're in the pool. It's basically the only time they don't have a gun pointed at someone's head.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 02:48 |
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Chapter 18quote:The Humvees approached the wall-to-wall line of Hork-Bajir around the Pool ship and came to a stop. A Hork-Bajir- and a human-Controller stepped over to the window like cops getting ready to hand out tickets. i kind of like the fact that Visser One is just exhausted here. If the Animorphs have been fighting for 3 years, he's been trying to control Earth for longer, first carrying out the first Visser One's plan, which he never really believed in, and now trying his, which hasn't been all that successful. Meanwhile, he knows that there's a pending Andalite attack and that he can't do anything to stop it. The visser was always aggressive and paranoid, but now he's even more so. Chapter 19 quote:No! No!” Cassie cried. “NOOO!” First, a little math mistake here. There are 13 free Hork-Bajir....Toby and 12 of her people. More importantly, Jake says he "couldn't answer". Is that because he figures she's too far away, or he's overwhelmed by his decisions? Or something else?
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 03:47 |
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Crossposting from the cursed thread: https://i.imgur.com/zvwZVxL.mp4 Epicurius posted:Chapter 19 I agree that forcing a pacifist to act as a tool on your behalf is worse than killing the defenseless Yeerks, but only just. I think the Taxxon genocide is one of those things that is technically true but it's a voluntary genocide because these creatures just shouldn't... be. It's a net good for literally everyone outside of some basic bitch ethical arithmetic that says that Life Population must extend in all cases where it conceivably could. So glad to have blood bank back and running with this. It's really sprucing up my evenings.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 04:22 |
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Credit where it's due. Yeerk Tom had a great plan that would have gotten everything he wanted including revenging himself on his two most loathed enemies. Jake only just saw through it.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 04:26 |
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Tom underestimated the allies the Animorphs actually had, and was counting on their desperation to make a foolish deal, which Jake saw and played into. Only question I have is how they ensured that the Taxxon defector could be their own and how to convince Tom of that. I either missed it or the inference that explains it.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 04:34 |
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I don't think it's mentioned. Yet another thing they could've expanded on if they had more time.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 08:51 |
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Having a cheat code like a Chee is what made this entirely possible.
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# ? Mar 18, 2023 20:59 |
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While they don't have specifics, the Yeerks know that there's something weird going on in town beyond the normal Andalite bandit shenanigans. That weird super computer crystal that was hooked up to be studied, then the whole lab was torn apart and every guard brutally slaughtered by hand. The weird alien Dog ship down in the ocean that the "Andalite bandits" knew suspiciously well. Not to mention all the times they showed up on other planets while still being present on Earth. That one is a bit backwards looking, to be fair. But yeah, even within the strict pacifist limits of their programming, the Chee are honestly so ridiculously powerful that the mind boggles how one would even prepare countermeasures.
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# ? Mar 19, 2023 01:10 |
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Throw a stick in the opposite direction?
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# ? Mar 19, 2023 02:22 |
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Star Man posted:Having a cheat code like a Chee is what made this entirely possible. Definitely feels like this whole book could have been 3-5 books though.
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# ? Mar 19, 2023 02:59 |
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Chapter 20quote:The Pool ship rose from the earth, bigger than anything human eyes had beheld in the skies. Up and up, but not so high yet. I could see little of the room with my limited senses. Impossible to understand large spaces with fly eyes. So I searched out relative darkness. I searched out a space where the air motion was minimal. I had used the fly morph many times before and I was good at interpreting the fractured data of its senses. Poor Tobias.
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# ? Mar 19, 2023 05:12 |
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The auxiliary animorphs scene was worse than I remembered. It they had really wanted they could've shown James though, that's a character we definitely cared about.
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# ? Mar 19, 2023 08:10 |
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Yeah everything about that was just... awful in the best way.
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# ? Mar 19, 2023 08:51 |
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Not complaining but this book seems really long - is it the longest in the main series? edit - I checked and someone on Reddit put together a wordcount. This book is comparatively long but the longest in the series is, surprisingly, #1. freebooter fucked around with this message at 09:27 on Mar 19, 2023 |
# ? Mar 19, 2023 09:25 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 19:06 |
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I think watching the Auxiliary Animorphs burn to a painful death (granted through fly eyes) and being helpless to do anything about it is the most awful thing to happen in the series. Yes even worse then upcoming events. From an authoral pov, I agree that not building them up and simply having them being used as cannon fodder is something that could have been improved.
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# ? Mar 19, 2023 09:40 |